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Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.15 00:45:00 -
[1]
Hi, Tux.
I know that lately I've been pretty doom-and-gloom about the upcoming changes, and that hasn't really changed. I've realized, however, that I haven't come out and directly posted a request for your views on the matter, so I'm doing so now.
In short, what are your views on how the hitpoint changes will affect solo and very small group PvP? IMO, 10-20 minute 1-v-1's are simply too long and not fun at all. It's basically a case of "sit back and take a nap while you wait for your opponent to die or kill you". Even more important, a fight that lasts that long will allow the target's friends to arrive from several jumps away while you are still fighting, thus spelling your death. What are your views on this? Is it a case of "Sorry, man, you're SOL - start flying in blobs", or is it more of a "We recognize the problem and are working to find a way to resolve it"?
Any information would be appreciated. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
R.I.P. AC tempest R.I.P. Torp raven R.I.P. Solo PvP R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle.
Thanks, CCP. |
3GG H34D
Caldari Alts-R-Us
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Posted - 2006.11.15 00:57:00 -
[2]
If Tux IS doing all this to make you mad Wrayeth, can i hav your stuff?
========================================= Think u know 1337?, you dont know nuffink!
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Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.11.15 01:22:00 -
[3]
By the looks of it, this game isn't being balanced around 1v1s anymore. Tbh this is both a good thing and a bad thing (good in that it encourages more group tactics, bad that it encourages blobbing, focused firing and the fact that people actually enjoy hunting solo).
_______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues! |
Megadon
Caldari Deathshead Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.15 01:29:00 -
[4]
There is an aweful lot of ground between 1 vs 1 and a blob.
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.15 01:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Old Geeza By the looks of it, this game isn't being balanced around 1v1s anymore.
By the looks of it this game isn't being balanced at all. There is a bunch of haphazard randomness and hope that everything will balance itself out in the end.
Last Weeks Signature |
Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.15 01:33:00 -
[6]
They had the fine solution with a sort of stacking penalty on damage done by several ship against one planned, but when they announced it the shortsighted mass on these forums flamed it so much it never got implemented. This is what got instead.
You reap what you saw.
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Wat0721
GalacTECH Unlimited
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Posted - 2006.11.15 01:33:00 -
[7]
Obviously the only way to fix blobbing is a blanket 50% HP boost to all ships.
...
...Wait a minute...! ---
ECM Fix <--still stands, post-nerf. |
SN3263827
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2006.11.15 01:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Wrayeth IMO, 10-20 minute 1-v-1's are simply too long and not fun at all.
That's assuming the fight will actually last longer than it did before.
I had a fight the other night which lasted 6 minutes. Had the 50% HP boost been in place it probably would have lasted about the same length of time, perhaps less. Why? Because my tank lasted 5 minutes. Had I not killed the first opponent in 4 minutes, I would have died, and after 5 minutes the two ravens that I killed would have eaten me up.
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Bill Shankly
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Posted - 2006.11.15 02:35:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Bill Shankly on 15/11/2006 02:36:25 why will the hit point changes RIP AC tempests ?
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Flesh Eater
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Posted - 2006.11.15 05:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Wrayeth Hi, Tux. I know that lately I've been pretty doom-and-gloom about the upcoming changes, .......
You are not a member of the dev team, nor a celebrity.
Originally by: Wrayeth
.............. or is it more of a "We recognize the problem and are working to find a way to resolve it"?
What problem?
It should be obvious by now that the Devs are (rightly) more interested in the functioning of the overall "world" and each pilot's part in it, rather than a view centred on each pilot. This is one of the defining and interesting features of Eve...that the focus is on the environment, rather than each player's experience. What I am trying to say is that they are interested in allowing alliances to exert real control over space, rather than make sure that a player can just go wherever he wants, and have a fair chance. This is why, in Eve, there will never be restrictive instancing of "battlegrounds" where only 2 ships of the same type can enter at once. In Eve the side with the most ships probably will win, and the game will never force one fleet to reduce the number of ships in it because the opposing fleet has more ships in order to balance the fight to make a level playing field for each individual player. So, if you are fighting a 1 vs 1, in an area where one of the pilots has more allies, his allies SHOULD have time to come in and aid him.
As an example, I am in a 0.0 alliance where we have control over an area with a limited number of good mining systems. We have an outpost, multiple POSes in each system and on average 50 or so pilots in local - a lot of effort has been made to "claim" the territory. However, very small groups of hostile pilots are easily able to come in a snipe lesser ships so quickly and warp out that they cannot easily be stopped. Ships are often taken out in less than the time it would take to warp to the location. So, while effort has been made to "claim" the space, the claim becomes meaningless when your allies in your own space do not have enough time to come and help you. So, an increase in ship HP does well adding more meaning to corps and alliances having control over areas in the game. This, imo is far more important than an individual players chance in 1v1 combat....if you really want equal chance in fighting 1v1s, go play Guildwars or RTS/FPS games.
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Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.15 08:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Flesh Eater
You are not a member of the dev team, nor a celebrity.
Well, that came out of left field. While true, I don't know where this is coming from. Did I ever say anything to imply that I was? Or is this just another pointless insult from someone who enjoys sniping others on the forums for no better reason than that they can?
Quote: What problem?
The one that results in ridiculously increased fight duration to the point where it makes 1-v-1 a snore-fest and solo PvP impossible.
Quote: lots of stuff about alliances
I've spent most of the last two years in territory-holding 0.0 alliances. The problem here isn't fight durations but the tools alliances have to keep hostiles out of their territories in the first place. The devs have stated that they're looking to introduce new tools for this in one of the later Kali expansions (constellation sovereignty, gate sentries, etc.). Complete destruction of a playstyle is totally unnecessary to facilitate this.
Quote: This, imo is far more important than an individual players chance in 1v1 combat....if you really want equal chance in fighting 1v1s, go play Guildwars or RTS/FPS games.
I play Battlefield 2 quite frequently, thank you. Of course, there's no such thing as a 1-v-1 in that game. There is also no greater meaning behind the combat in that game, since a loss isn't really a loss - you don't actually LOSE anything. In contrast, in EVE you lose your ship and modules; this is what makes PvP so exciting.
In regards to another poster who asked why the AC tempest is dead, it's simple: increased fight durations favor higher-DPS ships.
In regards to fight durations ending when the active tank dies, that's not entirely true. Plates and shield extenders also got boosted, and this makes passive tanking uber in Kali and thus results in extremely lengthy fights. For instance, a raven with four extenders, two invulnerability fields, and some shield recharge mods in the lows will take an obscene amount of time to kill. The same with a 'geddon that has four plates, some hardeners, and a rep. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
R.I.P. AC tempest R.I.P. Torp raven R.I.P. Solo PvP R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle.
Thanks, CCP. |
Severa Crest
Nomina Sacra Sapientia Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.15 10:25:00 -
[12]
I understand what could be perceived as problems with the hitpoint boost, but I think these will be confined to the test server.
The problem with the setups being used on the test server atm are that most of them have no tackling and they need a cargohold full of cap charges for just 1 fight. So they can tank for an age, but can't catch anything and more often than not have crap dps, so they can't kill anything.
While players may attempt to use these setups on tq, I believe they will prove unsuccessful.
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Tsar Maul
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Posted - 2006.11.15 10:29:00 -
[13]
<3 Wrayeth, even if he is a little too attached to his autopest
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Shagrath Xarra
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Posted - 2006.11.15 12:02:00 -
[14]
I don't know if everything the OP said about solo play being eliminated will come true and I am not even sure how the HP boost will effect everything yet but if it is true that it will lessen 1v1 battles, i think that is sad.
It seems more and more MMOs are pushing soloers out into the cold lately and forcing everyone to GROUP. I agree that these games were meant to be played with other players and should not be filled with soloers pwning each other but the solo game adds diversity and another element of gameplay which is needed imo.
Sometimes it is fun and even necessary to play on your own. I hope this change doesn't kill off soloing and small scale pvp.
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Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.15 12:12:00 -
[15]
are we takling about ganking here?
This means ill try to kill someone while hunting/mining/traveling? In other words, if i find a npc in the north he doenst have an em or explo hardner, which menas 0% or 10% resitance to the damage type, iam not to familiar with the new torps yet, but the old ones, with three damage mods, hit for about 850, a raven gets how much shield? 10-12k mabe, dunno sry. But then u need about two volley to make his shield disapear, lets say three after missle chance, rof is arond 7ish 1st volley 7secs 2nd volley 7secs 3rd volley 7secs 4th volley
in other words 21 secs till ur done with his shield. After that is done its gettin easier, so u can switch torps or live one with the 60% resitance on armor. armor tanks are easier, cause u dont need to think about em just load plain explo torps and ur done.
This whole change will effect solo ganking, cause its gettin harder, but not impossible, its just forcing ppl to work with other ppl, the blasterthron is still king of short range bs, cause it has a good damage output.
In the end, the dual 425 and electron fittings will vanish, cause it takes to long, maybe we see more neutron and 800 fittings. its just gettin different, but tbh its a good chance, i can fly torp raven and ac pest and iam looking foward to it. I dont fear the hp boost cause my damage output will increase and fights will be more fights and not simple "get him kill him"
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.15 14:52:00 -
[16]
The ships that you can kill solo haven't changed. I have exactly the same regen, shield boost rate and cap recharge.
It just takes 50% longer to chew through the hits, and gives _both_ sides time to do something clever with their fighting, rather than being over before they can even swap ammo types.
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DoctorColossal Pervius
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Posted - 2006.11.15 15:09:00 -
[17]
1. Damage output of ACs is gettign boosted.
2. I believe the hp boosts are to make for longer battles and more tactical decisions in fleet battles
3. Again this will run along side with the new gang/fleet command layout. Better tactical decision making in fllets with more time.
4. I could be talking aload of balls though...
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Alowishus
Shadow Company Alektorophobia
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Posted - 2006.11.15 16:01:00 -
[18]
Why do people address threads to Tux as if he gives a ****?
Hi Tux Look Tux Hear me out Tux I'm special, read this, Tux
Blah blah blah. The moderators here are excellent at policing signatures. |
Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.15 16:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: DoctorColossal Pervius 1. Damage output of ACs is gettign boosted.
Damage output of Artillery is being boosted but not ACs. Only change to ACs are to lower ammo usage by moving some of the damage from rof to damage mod.
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K8 T
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Posted - 2006.11.15 16:58:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hoshi They had the fine solution with a sort of stacking penalty on damage done by several ship against one planned, but when they announced it the shortsighted mass on these forums flamed it so much it never got implemented. This is what got instead.
You reap what you saw.
I still don't understand why Tuxford or anyone else at CCP would listen AT ALL to the playerbase. Because for starters, only like 10% of the playerbase is or flies Amarr.. While everyone and their mother in law flies Caldari and Gallente.
If you let the forum lobby get to you, the game can never become balanced.
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Arondor
GalacTECH Unlimited
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Posted - 2006.11.15 17:11:00 -
[21]
I think the 50% boost will change alot of tactics, complicated further by rigs which wil change ship fittings and damage/tanking ability somewhat. Allowing friends to arrive, isn't neccesarily a bad thing, what it will likely kill is smmall frigate gangs being able to kill anything they come upon. Solo gankships will likely still be able to kill unprepared ships.
Now an even 1v1 in battleships takes awhile, but this is hardly a common occurance on the main server. Much more common is single specifically setup battleship/cruiser/HAC/recon vs one other ship that isn't expecting it. These fights will remain one sided, the tactics may just change.
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Valerek
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.16 03:23:00 -
[22]
My personal opinion is that character skills are too even...not the ships. Eventually, ANYBODY will be able to fly ANY ship with ANY gear. That's what is messed up with Eve. I think it should be VERY tough for Gallente to fly Caldari ships or vice versa. There might be an affinity between Gallente and Minmatar races. I also believe that specific trainings will LIMIT what ships you will be able to fly. Say you start off as a miner...no way in heck will you EVER be able to fly anything larger than a battlecruiser...IF this game were up to me to develop. I think skills, character initial training and race should be re-worked in order to tailor final ship class available. And we could go one step further...what GEAR you will be able to fit onto your ship.
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.16 03:39:00 -
[23]
eve is about to become a mining and blobbing simulator.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Flesh Eater
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Posted - 2006.11.16 04:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Valerek My personal opinion is that character skills are too even...not the ships. Eventually, ANYBODY will be able to fly ANY ship with ANY gear. That's what is messed up with Eve. I think it should be VERY tough for Gallente to fly Caldari ships or vice versa. There might be an affinity between Gallente and Minmatar races. I also believe that specific trainings will LIMIT what ships you will be able to fly. Say you start off as a miner...no way in heck will you EVER be able to fly anything larger than a battlecruiser...IF this game were up to me to develop. I think skills, character initial training and race should be re-worked in order to tailor final ship class available. And we could go one step further...what GEAR you will be able to fit onto your ship.
I would agree with you, but remember that the average time people play this game before they quit is around 7 months (right?) - so in that context, it is pretty hard to cross train.
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