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James Pickers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
2
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Posted - 2015.05.26 00:12:14 -
[1] - Quote
I started to run some combat sites in nullsec again. I finished a sansha hub and overall I got only 3 million isk in loot and about the same in bounties. For a good 20mins of combat this seems very low.
Am I doing something wrong, or does the good isk only come from commander spawns and escalations? |
Traejun DiSanctis
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
133
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Posted - 2015.05.26 05:48:12 -
[2] - Quote
James Pickers wrote:I started to run some combat sites in nullsec again. I finished a sansha hub and overall I got only 3 million isk in loot and about the same in bounties. For a good 20mins of combat this seems very low.
Am I doing something wrong, or does the good isk only come from commander spawns and escalations?
Faction spawns are unlikely to ever appear in a random anom/static combat site, so no... the income does not come from there.
The short answer to your overall questions is, yes, it's worth it. I rat in my alliance sov in a -0.5 system and earn 100-125M ISK/hour. There are many factors that go into how much you can earn. Here are some things to keep in mind, both in the form of information and tips.
1. The ship you're flying and the DPS is you're pushing is the single biggest factor. A 380-420 DPS Tengu is going to aspire to 50M ISK/hour max. A 1000+ DPS Rattlesnake is going to crank out north of 100M+ ISK/hour consistently. It's about how quickly you can kill the rats. Nothing else really matters.
2. Chain run the sites. Top efficiency will come from running 1 hour worth of sites, dropping an MTU at each one. Don't forget to bookmark each MTU you drop. Once you've run X number of sites in that hour, switch into a salvaging boat (Noctis) and go slurp up all the loot and salvage from each site you've cleared.
3. Hubs are the 3rd hardest of all the sites (behind Sanctums and Havens) and, therefore, will likely require the greatest investment of time to clear. You are better served slamming through Hidden, Forsaken or Forlorn Rally Points. Quicker clears with comparable bounties per site. The most important consideration is, once again, DPS. Don't bother with Hubs or Havens solo unless you're above 600 DPS. They'll take too long.
4. Rat type matters. For whatever reason, the rats of certain pirate factions tend to have better bounties than some others. This is not something you can control since your sov isn't of your choosing, but it is a factor to consider.
5. Escalations are not what you base your averages on, they are more like bonuses. You cannot predict how often you get escalations, so when you do, you simply consider it a nice pay day. That said, escalations are certainly part of the benefit of ratting because they will happen at somewhat regular intervals. So, while not part of the equation, they are part of the benefitof ratting and something you can count on profiting by regularly.
6. Consider team-ratting. I've found that there is almost never a drop in hourly income when ratting with a partner. More DPS means quicker site clears. I have a couple buddies in my corp that I rat with frequently. We use the method detailed in #2 above, but after the hour, one of us breaks off to loot/salvage, while the other 1 or 2 of us continue ratting. Those that keep the ratting going keep track of those bounties and give the looter/salvage their cut at the end of the session. We do this for a week or 2, then sell off loot/salvage and reprocess the stuff we don't sell in order to sell the minerals. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
995
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Posted - 2015.05.26 06:55:45 -
[3] - Quote
James Pickers wrote:I started to run some combat sites in nullsec again. I finished a sansha hub and overall I got only 3 million isk in loot and about the same in bounties. For a good 20mins of combat this seems very low.
Am I doing something wrong, or does the good isk only come from commander spawns and escalations?
This does sound very low. Perhaps someone had already run part of the site?
The poster above generally has good information, but I do see a decent number of faction spawns when I run anomalies consistently.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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James Pickers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
2
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Posted - 2015.05.26 10:19:38 -
[4] - Quote
Well I just finished a Forsaken Rally Point. It took me at least 45 minutes and seemed to be far harder and take far longer than a regular hub. I got about 25 mill in bounties, 5 mill in loot and 3 mill in salvage. About 30 mill for an hour of work.
Im guessing that most of the money comes from bounties?
I use a cap stable apocalypse with about 550 dps with guns. Not sure if this setup would affect anything. |
Nuclear Tap
Nuclear Ind. Co.
2
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Posted - 2015.05.26 12:17:51 -
[5] - Quote
Yes, most of the money comes from bounties. Whem I lived in nullsec I didn't bother to salvage or loot at all.
It seemes your DPS is low, not the raw DPS but the applied DPS. Check your optimal and tracking.
I use to have some difficulties with a perfect skilled Dominx ( 600 DPS at 150 km range, and 850 DPS at 50km), and only managed to break 50M per hour with a RR Donimix pair (dual-boxing).
You will not achieve the numbers people claim here in the foruns without a pimped pirate hull with 1200 DPS or more. Try NM. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11109
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Posted - 2015.05.26 14:03:29 -
[6] - Quote
James Pickers wrote:Well I just finished a Forsaken Rally Point. It took me at least 45 minutes and seemed to be far harder and take far longer than a regular hub. I got about 25 mill in bounties, 5 mill in loot and 3 mill in salvage. About 30 mill for an hour of work.
Im guessing that most of the money comes from bounties?
I use a cap stable apocalypse with about 550 dps with guns. Not sure if this setup would affect anything.
What ship are you using, because whatever you are doing it's taking WAY too long.
And you don't need a pirate BS to make good isk in anomalies. Plenty of Tech 1 battleships as well as properly used/fitted T3s and BCs can be good too, though not quite as good as a facilitation ship. A properly Fit t1 Typhoon with cruise missiles, 4 sentry drones and an mjd is magic, same goes for the Armageddon (missiles + drones is good in any ratting space).
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James Pickers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
2
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Posted - 2015.05.26 15:17:46 -
[7] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: What ship are you using, because whatever you are doing it's taking WAY too long.
James Pickers wrote: I use a cap stable apocalypse with about 550 dps with guns.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11120
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Posted - 2015.05.26 18:29:01 -
[8] - Quote
James Pickers wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: What ship are you using, because whatever you are doing it's taking WAY too long.
James Pickers wrote: I use a cap stable apocalypse with about 550 dps with guns.
What kind of rats? Sansha right? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16441
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Posted - 2015.05.26 21:17:29 -
[9] - Quote
James Pickers wrote:I started to run some combat sites in nullsec again. I finished a sansha hub and overall I got only 3 million isk in loot and about the same in bounties. For a good 20mins of combat this seems very low.
Am I doing something wrong, or does the good isk only come from commander spawns and escalations?
If you're getting 3M per tick with an Apoc shooting sansha, something is very wrong.
Please post your fit and we will help.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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James Pickers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
2
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Posted - 2015.05.27 02:31:24 -
[10] - Quote
This is the fit I am using:
8x Mega Pulse Laser II
4x Cap Recharger II
Large Armor RepairerII 2x Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Tracking Enhancer II 2x Heat Sink II
3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit
15x Acolyte I
550 DPS and ~ 50 more with drones. Tends to get about 1100 damage per volley into sansha battleships. Usually takes 3 volleys at shields, 4 at Armor and 3 at hull to kill one. For cruisers/battle cruisers only 3-4 volleys are required to destroy it. The rats I shoot are sansha.
Perhaps I am valuing capacitor stability too much and should instead fit for more DPS and tracking? |
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Traejun DiSanctis
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
139
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Posted - 2015.05.27 06:20:40 -
[11] - Quote
Right off the bat, you're overdoing it on the cap. You shouldn't be cap-stable in that... nor do you need to be. Slap a third heat sink in the lows in place of the tracking enhancer. Replace 2 of the Cap Rechargers with Tracking Computers.
You're aiming for 600-700 DPS as a threshold number. If you can't get there, then you're not properly skilled for this and, as such, won't be making the ISK/hour you should. |
James Pickers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
2
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Posted - 2015.05.27 18:37:04 -
[12] - Quote
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Right off the bat, you're overdoing it on the cap. You shouldn't be cap-stable in that... nor do you need to be. Slap a third heat sink in the lows in place of the tracking enhancer. Replace 2 of the Cap Rechargers with Tracking Computers.
You're aiming for 600-700 DPS as a threshold number. If you can't get there, then you're not properly skilled for this and, as such, won't be making the ISK/hour you should.
Also, replace one of the rigs with the large energy turret damage rig (forget the name). With 8 guns, that one rig will amount to quite a bit of deeps.
I tried doing a Sansha Port with this fit. It was alright until the 3rd wave where I had to resort to only firing half my guns due to being out of capacitor. On the 4th wave, the incoming DPS required me to run my tank constantly which meant I had to stop firing completely. I left the site.
I don't understand how you are supposed to be able to fight for 20 minutes with only a few minutes of capacitor when pretty much all the modules need to be running. Even with perfect skills the fit only has 2:35 minutes of capacitor. |
Princess Kyky
Purgatory Afterglow
0
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Posted - 2015.05.27 23:27:28 -
[13] - Quote
swap 2 cap rechargers for tracking computers swap the enhancer for cap power relay and swap two t1 capacitor control units for t2 that should make you cap stable at around 46% |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
624
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Posted - 2015.05.28 00:17:57 -
[14] - Quote
What crystals are you using? |
Traejun DiSanctis
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
143
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:13:22 -
[15] - Quote
James Pickers wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Right off the bat, you're overdoing it on the cap. You shouldn't be cap-stable in that... nor do you need to be. Slap a third heat sink in the lows in place of the tracking enhancer. Replace 2 of the Cap Rechargers with Tracking Computers.
You're aiming for 600-700 DPS as a threshold number. If you can't get there, then you're not properly skilled for this and, as such, won't be making the ISK/hour you should.
Also, replace one of the rigs with the large energy turret damage rig (forget the name). With 8 guns, that one rig will amount to quite a bit of deeps. I tried doing a Sansha Port with this fit. It was alright until the 3rd wave where I had to resort to only firing half my guns due to being out of capacitor. On the 4th wave, the incoming DPS required me to run my tank constantly which meant I had to stop firing completely. I left the site. I don't understand how you are supposed to be able to fight for 20 minutes with only a few minutes of capacitor when pretty much all the modules need to be running. Even with perfect skills the fit only has 2:35 minutes of capacitor.
With the suggested alterations I made, you should have more than 2:35 of cap time. Which suggests to me that you don't have perfect skills. |
James Pickers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
2
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Posted - 2015.05.28 09:56:01 -
[16] - Quote
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
With the suggested alterations I made, you should have more than 2:35 of cap time. Which suggests to me that you don't have perfect skills.
I popped the fit into EFT and with all level 5 skills there's only 2:35 minutes of capacitor. -»\_(pâä)_/-» |
Dextrome Thorphan
Intrepid Crossing
127
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Posted - 2015.05.28 10:11:57 -
[17] - Quote
James Pickers wrote:I started to run some combat sites in nullsec again. I finished a sansha hub and overall I got only 3 million isk in loot and about the same in bounties. For a good 20mins of combat this seems very low.
Am I doing something wrong, or does the good isk only come from commander spawns and escalations?
Yes you're doing something wrong. Do the hardest anomalies in a proper fitted battlecruiser or battleship and you'll earn 6-7 times more in bounties. |
Dextrome Thorphan
Intrepid Crossing
127
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Posted - 2015.05.28 10:18:11 -
[18] - Quote
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:5. Escalations are not what you base your averages on, they are more like bonuses. You cannot predict how often you get escalations, so when you do, you simply consider it a nice pay day. That said, escalations are certainly part of the benefit of ratting because they will happen at somewhat regular intervals. So, while not part of the equation, they are part of the benefitof ratting and something you can count on profiting by regularly.
Don't forget escalations are always a gamble though (and usually quite risky because more often than not they're located in space that isn't owned by your alliance): because the bounties aren't that great and it takes a long time to clear them and you gotta get lucky with the loot. |
Thalos Elongus
30plus Fidelas Constans
19
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Posted - 2015.05.28 11:29:06 -
[19] - Quote
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:5. Escalations are not what you base your averages on, they are more like bonuses. You cannot predict how often you get escalations, so when you do, you simply consider it a nice pay day. That said, escalations are certainly part of the benefit of ratting because they will happen at somewhat regular intervals. So, while not part of the equation, they are part of the benefitof ratting and something you can count on profiting by regularly.
Don't forget escalations are always a gamble though (and usually quite risky because more often than not they're located in space that isn't owned by your alliance): because the bounties aren't that great and it takes a long time to clear them and you gotta get lucky with the loot.
I love getting an Escallation. The bookmark alone can be sold for 170M currently. (At that rate I have troubles running it myself, but a nice payday on a maze can be a-Maze-ing, so i am torn apart here)
REALISTIC ratting income is about
6-12 M / Tick - Running belts in a Gila 12-15 M / Tick - - Running Hubs/Sanctums in a decently fitted Dominix with good Drone skills 15-18 M / Tick - Running Hubs/Sanctums in a T2 fitted Dominix/Ishtar with perfect Drone skills and T2 drones / Faction drones 18-21 M / Tick - Running Hubs/Sanctums in a Pimped Ishtar (tripple faction DDA, no other weapons than drones, a DNC (Nav Comp) also helps to cut down the time needed)
I have no clue what values you can get with a carrier or anything like that, but i heard higher numbers are possible here.
Folks claiming 50M/Tick are either insane or are dual boxing and forgetting to divide that number by the number of accounts used.
Dreads add a bit on top and on belt ratting dreads/Haulers are actually a very sizable part of the results.
To earn some more isk, i also sometimes drop MTU (3-4 sites in a row) and then switch back to a noctis to collect loot and salvage (I do build Rigs) |
GordonO
TOASTED Corp
121
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Posted - 2015.05.29 02:44:28 -
[20] - Quote
If you are in an upgraded system with a ship that does 700+ dps you can do easily 23mil ticks solo doing forsaken hubs back to back. You could do better before they introduced them pesky little frigs to the forsaken hubs.
... What next ??
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Sheeth Athonille
Baconic Plague Hofmann's Heroes
16
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Posted - 2015.05.29 16:12:25 -
[21] - Quote
Yeah I'm making easy 21-22 mil ticks running forsaken hubs in a sentry domi vs sansha. Plus the loot/salvage from mtu's. I'd guess probably pushing 25 mil per tick depending on loot drops/how long it takes to collect the stuff? |
Gasirmei
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 15:19:28 -
[22] - Quote
Doing sites in anything less than a thanatos is inefficient ^_^ Can maintain 25-30 mil tics very easy off haven hub or sanctums, all work.... I find Hubs best to sentry-carrier, and sanctums best to do when using fighters. |
Sheeth Athonille
Baconic Plague Hofmann's Heroes
16
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Posted - 2015.06.03 00:52:17 -
[23] - Quote
Gasirmei wrote:Doing sites in anything less than a thanatos is inefficient ^_^ Can maintain 25-30 mil tics very easy off haven hub or sanctums, all work.... I find Hubs best to sentry-carrier, and sanctums best to do when using fighters.
If you never die you're right, but if you die even once, odds are a cheaper ship would be much more efficient :P |
Traejun DiSanctis
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
148
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Posted - 2015.06.03 05:26:25 -
[24] - Quote
Sheeth Athonille wrote:Gasirmei wrote:Doing sites in anything less than a thanatos is inefficient ^_^ Can maintain 25-30 mil tics very easy off haven hub or sanctums, all work.... I find Hubs best to sentry-carrier, and sanctums best to do when using fighters. If you never die you're right, but if you die even once, odds are a cheaper ship would be much more efficient :P
This is sort of my problem with Carrier ratting. Every few weeks, I hear about someone getting their carrier blown up and it reminds me of why I will never do that.
25-30M ticks are great, but you can get near that with someone that costs a fraction of what the Carrier costs. |
Sinnish Saken
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2015.06.09 15:53:02 -
[25] - Quote
The faster you can reduce the incoming dps the less tank you need. I try to focus on the big red circles when the tank starts to stress. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11303
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Posted - 2015.06.09 18:53:16 -
[26] - Quote
Sinnish Saken wrote:The faster you can reduce the incoming dps the less tank you need. I try to focus on the big red circles when the tank starts to stress.
I just warp to 100 and never worry about my tank, range tanking ftw . This is the angel version, but it works everywhere and costs less than half of what a fitted carrier does while making close to the same isk per hour, and safer because of the MJD and not being a carrier lol.
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, Fallen Angel] Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier Pithum C-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier Domination Kinetic Deflection Amplifier Large Micro Jump Drive
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Bay Loading Accelerator II Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Large Ionic Field Projector I
Bouncer II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Warrior II x5 Salvage Drone I x5 |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
419
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Posted - 2015.06.10 03:02:42 -
[27] - Quote
Ishtar with heavy drones can get over 800 DPS and tank just about anything.
Vs. Sansha just passive tank with an EM and an adaptive invuln, and speed tank with an AB, even 100mn.
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Kaphrah
DIN Ship Replacement Corporation
40
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Posted - 2015.06.23 21:58:36 -
[28] - Quote
Hoo Lee Fuk guys.
Those REALISTIC ratting incomes wtf... Take a Rattlesnake, you get 35+, take a Thanatos (considering good skills), you get ~40-45m/tick, take a supercarrier and you get around ~60-80m/tick (depends on fit). 12-15m in a WELL fitted dominix, is well fitted the same as meta 0 mods? If you're under 25m in a Battleship and say you have a good fit/skills, you're doing something very wrong here. Carrier ratting is easy if you know what you're doing, also insure that thing and you lose like ~400-600m depending on fit etc., most people who get their carrier tackled were half-afk or awoxed. A bit of common sense and intelligence and you should be fine, and if you lose one every few weeks, with 40-45m ticks+faction loot/escalations you don't lose much.
Also to the guy who stated Team ratting is worth it, it is not. You will both lose payout/tick, and if you get double the amount than alone, you can be sure your partner loses compared to before. I had a Nyx alone doing ~65-70m/tick, then I added a Paladin because I was too lazy for the frigates, yes, I got like 70-80m/tick (if you ADD both accounts), but that Paladin did about 30+/tick solo, so this 1:1 addition does NOT work. Believe me or try for yourself and be disappointed.
Also before taking Gilas, consider a Rattlesnake or a Machariel/Typhoon fleet. They're all pretty cheap by now and have hell of a performance in those sites, as Amarr pilot a Nightmare or a Paladin is a good idea although the Nightmare fit needs to be a "bit" (like 2-3b) expensive to work really well while the pala technically works with full T2.
Only sites useful for Ratting: Forsaken Hub/Haven (Asteroid/cloud)/Ring Sanctum, most others will decrease profit. Also Sanctums/Havens are not really better than Hubs, I got mostly the same bounty in those, but they can only escalate to 9/10's and have less worthy faction spawns (imo) and loot.
(With a Rattle you get close to 40m/tick with max skills, imps and a good fit but I'll probably get flamed for saying that)
***Best example why Team ratting does NOT work: Compare Thanatos/Nyx payout per tick. Getting 90m/tick on a somewhat with common sence fitted Nyx is impossible as long as you just consider bounty (like this whole post), even tho the Nyx has double the DPS of a Thanatos. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Triumvirate.
836
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Posted - 2015.06.24 10:38:47 -
[29] - Quote
use to do around 28-35mil ticks in a thanatos carrier, and yes faction rats did spawn a good few times in havens and sanctums dropping nice loot, escalations as mentioned get sold or solo them in marauders for a chance at a mega loot haul
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
880
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Posted - 2015.06.24 11:41:39 -
[30] - Quote
I'm too late here I think, but here's something to consider (simple stuff, but don't overlook that): since rats use what amounts to active tanks, extra dps goes very long way because if you kill them faster, they rep less HP in addition to extra removal speed of initial HP.
So, depending on numbers, even small increase of DPS may mean substantial decrease of time needed to kill that BS. |
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