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K1773R
Caldari Back Home In Time For Tea And Medals The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2006.11.17 13:22:00 -
[181]
Yet another unborn pvp ship, nice going turdford, lets get this unbalanced game even more unbalanced, who wants to pay 500mil for a decent caldari pvp ship?? guess this game is only for the carebears who farm isk.
This is supposed to be a pvp based game as well as being mining, trading and missioning, not seeing it, only pvp in this game is consentual pvp.
"id like to be a carebear in empire and not have to worrie about anything touching me, my HP's have increased i can warp to "0" when docking or going to gates, if i go to missions in dead space no1 can find me, poor bastards who war decced me are gonna have to pay their bills and see me laughing at them"
yay for a game that is getting no different than pure NPC, just get it overwith and cut out the pvp for good u know u want too. just leave a chat room so we can still talk to each other. oh wait well just use msn and imagine were playing together
/me rants
oh well heres for hoping they wake up and do something about the stoooopid bonuses and other crap.
LONG LIVE PVP!! ----------------------------------------------- I don't think i sould be shot for selling pot, it's just my little way of saying hi(gh) |
schemering
Shibari Mure
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Posted - 2006.11.17 13:50:00 -
[182]
Took it for a few spins before and after the nerf. I can live with the ROF nerf (2.88 with 4 BCU II's was a tad much, TBH ), but the Kinetic bonus... what good is that? And missing a launcher too? Now the Drake only has one launcher *more* than the Ferox, while it's supposed to be a missile BC vs. the Ferox being a rail BC? That doesn't make sense...
Please, trade the Kinetic bonus back for the 7th launcher. Give it an agility bonus for all I care, but this is a missed opportunity.
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Yoshimako
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Posted - 2006.11.17 13:56:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Aki Yamato
Quote: Now it is just a tank ship, and a bloody good one.
6xHAM2's
3xinvul 2's 3xLSE 2's
1xBCU 2xPDU 1xSPR
Do you realize that with this setup witch T2 ammo loaded capacitor drops constantly to zero or yor speed is reduced by 30%
Sorry if it is already reported bug.
U seem to have misinterpretted me. Or maybe i didn't make it clear.
Im all for the drake being a gank ship. I would love for this to be the case. But with its ability to field a tank like that it cannot be allowed to do good damage.
Answer, Increase the damage again and nerf its ability to tank. How you would do this without totally gimping the ship is beyond me and so it seems, ccp aswell at this point.
One way to do it would be to lower the PG further perhaps to prevent LSE's from being fitted. This only prevents the passive tanks though, it does nothing against boosters, amps and hardeners. Another would be to reduce the number of midslots (but that carries its own problems).
You could reduce the shield HP's but again this isnt viable.
You see the problem? I think they just did the first thing they could to balance it and that was to lower the damage. Ofcourse this stops it from being a gank ship and once again turns it into a tank ship.
Something needs to be done but what that should be is another matter.
ps. I am not in favor of making LSE's and 1600mm plates BS only due to fitting, because it will gimp alot of ships that use them well without being overpowered.
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.17 13:57:00 -
[184]
Even unnerfed Drake was not so good. It has lower dps than Harbinger and Hurricane. Now it has dps of Caracal without Caracal agility and price of ten Caracals. --------------------------------- Hint: Train for Mega, not for Rokh R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Flabida jaba
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:04:00 -
[185]
Im with you Captain Raynor
Heavy assult missle =/= the Drake if they are overpowered then they are also overpowered on a caracal, a cerb, a blackbird a rook, perhaps even more on the cerb than anything else
and as i understood the OP this thread is about the DRAKE!!!!!
and the double nerf is too much in my humble opinion 6 launchers is a signifigant hit, but understandable the kinectic Dmg bonus in addition to the previous one is nothing short of putting the last nail in...
tux has already said the devs are discussing sheild recharge rates on BC's toward the nerf angle and god forbid any single wanabe drake piolet actually wants to try solo pvp. Which can be done by any of the other races new BC's given the low slot tank option
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Yoshimako
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:06:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Zixxa Even unnerfed Drake was not so good. It has lower dps than Harbinger and Hurricane. Now it has dps of Caracal without Caracal agility and price of ten Caracals.
That comes down to the old missile disscussion though.
Okay. Would you all be willing to fly a drake that could do big damage, BUT has a paper shield?
Say if you had 7 launchers a ROF bonus and a damage bonus? Your tank would have to be pathetic for this to be balanced.
Would you fly it?
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Sean Dillon
Caldari Snakes in a Pod
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:11:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Yoshimako
Originally by: Zixxa Even unnerfed Drake was not so good. It has lower dps than Harbinger and Hurricane. Now it has dps of Caracal without Caracal agility and price of ten Caracals.
That comes down to the old missile disscussion though.
Okay. Would you all be willing to fly a drake that could do big damage, BUT has a paper shield?
Say if you had 7 launchers a ROF bonus and a damage bonus? Your tank would have to be pathetic for this to be balanced.
Would you fly it?
The drake needs the same tank, but more dps. The drake can't match tier 2 BC of other races and therefore it sucks.
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Ariel Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:45:00 -
[188]
I don't see why it was a problem that the Drake had more DPS than the Cerebus, as the Drake costs more to build (ignoring how much it costs to buy one) and is a larger ship class than the Cerebus, so it SHOULD be doing more damage.
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Yumi Katanawe
Caldari Demon Womb
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:54:00 -
[189]
You see, cerberus price in jita went down a few millions since Kali beta started.
Some people got worried.
Obviously the good of 20 is more important than the good of 20.000.
Stay tuned! Next week you'll find out how it will take 480h of mission running to produce 1 T2 ship with invention.
Same nerf-hour, same nerf-channel.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:56:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn I don't see why it was a problem that the Drake had more DPS than the Cerebus, as the Drake costs more to build (ignoring how much it costs to buy one) and is a larger ship class than the Cerebus, so it SHOULD be doing more damage.
while a BC should allways outclass the similar HAC no questions asked, the HAC Owners and Builders union has a much stronger voice and as such they got it nerfed. funny though how the dev team gives no warning or reason for the nerfs.
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Dreamdancer
Minmatar Ceryshen Strategic Analysis Vanu Space Command
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Posted - 2006.11.17 15:13:00 -
[191]
From all the screaming I heard about how hard hitting the Drake was before I don't have an issue with the loss of one launcher. Will shed a few tears and raise a toast to it demise and move on.
but...
The RoF nerf is very poorly thought thru. The tank is the second most overpowered side. What should have been dropped was the resist bonus and a missile velocity bonus added instead. RoF and missile velocity bonuses. Make a true missile platform with a solid, but not overpowered tank or gank.
If HAM's are still too powerful at that stage tweek them.
We are recruiting! |
Yumi Katanawe
Caldari Demon Womb
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Posted - 2006.11.17 15:17:00 -
[192]
Out of curiosity, how much dollars / month you'd earn with a cerberus bpo?
Considering material cost, sell price, current isk/$ ratio.
I mean, I'd be very worried lobbying if those cerb bpos paid my mortgage.
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Tom Gunn
Caldari Master Miners
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Posted - 2006.11.17 15:18:00 -
[193]
Whats with the stupid kinetic missile bonus anyway? - a missile is a missile, it makes no sense to have a ship or launcher fire one missile (kinetic) with a bonus and not affect other types.
The ROF bonus makes alot more sense.
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.17 15:38:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Yoshimako
Originally by: Zixxa Even unnerfed Drake was not so good. It has lower dps than Harbinger and Hurricane. Now it has dps of Caracal without Caracal agility and price of ten Caracals.
That comes down to the old missile disscussion though.
Okay. Would you all be willing to fly a drake that could do big damage, BUT has a paper shield?
Say if you had 7 launchers a ROF bonus and a damage bonus? Your tank would have to be pathetic for this to be balanced.
Would you fly it?
Yes. Yes. Yes. I will fly tis ship. I have ate enough tanking with Ferox or with heavy tanked raven. I need smthing which can destroy enemy ship. So best Drake is 6 launchers + 5% damage(all types, or at least thermal + kinetic) and 5% ROF. And let 5% shield resistance goes to hell. I want to see at least ONE Caldari warship which could bring SAME DPS in regular fight as its rivals. --------------------------------- Hint: Train for Mega, not for Rokh R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Santa Anna
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Posted - 2006.11.17 15:49:00 -
[195]
What complete and total bull****.
Yet another caldari ship that no one but clueless noobs will fly. I guess anything that disturbs the optimal setup of nos+drones in all situations must be destroyed.
But, you know, good thing they added that kinetic damage bonus because having the lowest DPS and highest ammo cost of any weapon system was just too small of a tradeoff for being able to choose damage type.
Seriously, who the **** would buy a drake when a Raven is a 4 days of training and 50M isk away?
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BIGYIN
Caldari F.S.O. Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.17 16:04:00 -
[196]
i don't see why all caldari ship with the kinetic missile damage bonus cant get it for all damage types. the gallente get a 10% to all drone damage. if the caldari cant get it then they should nerf all gallente drone ships so they only get the damage bones for there own drone type and i know its a bad idea but so is the bonus to one missile type and not the rest.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.17 16:12:00 -
[197]
Originally by: BIGYIN i don't see why all caldari ship with the kinetic missile damage bonus cant get it for all damage types. the gallente get a 10% to all drone damage. if the caldari cant get it then they should nerf all gallente drone ships so they only get the damage bones for there own drone type and i know its a bad idea but so is the bonus to one missile type and not the rest.
Sure. In return I want the ability to shoot and destroy your missile launchers permanently. Deal?
(and the Myrmidon +10% per level is a joke, since it can only use medium drones in non-suicide mode, making for crappy drone dps and even crappier turret damage. Even the nerfed Drake is miles beyond the Myrmidon, sigh)
That said, I think this nerf to the Drake and the Hurricane went a bit too far. It should be pulled back a bit, and the Myrmidon boosted a bit.
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BIGYIN
Caldari F.S.O. Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.17 16:19:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: BIGYIN i don't see why all caldari ship with the kinetic missile damage bonus cant get it for all damage types. the gallente get a 10% to all drone damage. if the caldari cant get it then they should nerf all gallente drone ships so they only get the damage bones for there own drone type and i know its a bad idea but so is the bonus to one missile type and not the rest.
Sure. In return I want the ability to shoot and destroy your missile launchers permanently. Deal?
(and the Myrmidon +10% per level is a joke, since it can only use medium drones in non-suicide mode, making for crappy drone dps and even crappier turret damage. Even the nerfed Drake is miles beyond the Myrmidon, sigh)
That said, I think this nerf to the Drake and the Hurricane went a bit too far. It should be pulled back a bit, and the Myrmidon boosted a bit.
it was not just the bonuses for the BC i was talking about i was talking about all ships with the missile bonus and all with the drone bonus.
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Ariel Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.17 16:22:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 17/11/2006 16:24:47 Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 17/11/2006 16:23:38
Originally by: Yumi Katanawe Out of curiosity, how much dollars / month you'd earn with a cerberus bpo?
Considering material cost, sell price, current isk/$ ratio.
I mean, I'd be very worried lobbying if those cerb bpos paid my mortgage.
A Cerberus costs 22-23m to make at current market prices.
Why does the Drake, costing 60% more to produce and being a battlecruiser, have an inferior tank and damage output to a cheaper and smaller ship? I realise comparing T1 v T2 isn't the greatest idea, but both ships are set up to be missileboats. The Cerberus also has the added advantages small sig and mobility due to being a cruiser.
If you feel that the Drake has to be this way, please crush the Cerberus with your nerfhammer to knock it into line. A 35m missileboat should not be horribly out-missiled and out-tanked by a 22m one..
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.17 16:31:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 17/11/2006 16:31:34
Originally by: BIGYIN
it was not just the bonuses for the BC i was talking about i was talking about all ships with the missile bonus and all with the drone bonus.
The drone boats (mostly) get a damage boost to all drone types, yes. My point is that this versatility is balanced by the fact that drones are killable (often easily), and also switching damage types with drones is very hard in practice -- you simply don't have the drone space to carry full sets of all types. In addition, once you launch your drones you can't (in practice) usually recall them and launch a new set unless you're fighting at point-blank range -- they take so long to travel you'll be dead by the time you get the second group out. So while there is some versatility, it's a lot less than you have with missiles. Yes, the 10 sec missile reload time sucks, but believe me drone switching sucks way, way more.
So the limitation of bonus to one damage type vs drone general bonus is balanced by the much better versatility of missiles (and the fact that your firepower can't be destroyed), like drones can.
They are very different weapons, of course. Just trying to provide some perspective here from a drone-use viewpoint. And yes, I use missiles too quite a bit, I know how they work.
Btw, the ship bonus isn't +10% for all Gallente drone ships, the Ishtar actually only has +5% damage bonus (item description is wrong) and the Eos has no bonus at all.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.17 16:41:00 -
[201]
Originally by: BIGYIN it was not just the bonuses for the BC i was talking about i was talking about all ships with the missile bonus and all with the drone bonus.
Thats already build in in the drones.
Caldari missiles: 100% dps with kinetic 80% dps with other damage types
Drones: 100% dps with thermal ones 90% dps with kinetic ones 80% dps with explosive ones 70% dps with EM ones
You see a pattern there?
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.17 16:45:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: BIGYIN it was not just the bonuses for the BC i was talking about i was talking about all ships with the missile bonus and all with the drone bonus.
Thats already build in in the drones.
Caldari missiles: 100% dps with kinetic 80% dps with other damage types
Drones: 100% dps with thermal ones 90% dps with kinetic ones 80% dps with explosive ones 70% dps with EM ones
You see a pattern there?
Yes, we see. Thermal is best all-around damage type. Kinetic the worst one. --------------------------------- Hint: Train for Mega, not for Rokh R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Benedict Carol
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Posted - 2006.11.17 16:51:00 -
[203]
Quote:
The drake needs the same tank, but more dps. The drake can't match tier 2 BC of other races and therefore it sucks.
Now, see, this is interesting. One of the things that I see in these threads, over and over again, is the notion that ships of the same class must be -equal- across races.
As a Caldari pilot, I'd be just fine with some ships out classing others if there were balances in the overall -fleet-. Instead of focusing (admittedly the thread is about the new ship) on specific ship comparisons, balance needs to be brought to the fleets themselves. I don't know the answers to -how- to accomplish that, but it's pretty amusing that we have Amarr players who wouldn't dare fit lasers for PVP and Caldari who fly only Ravens.
In short, this entire issue is simply a symptom of a bigger problem. |
Jaxtet
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.17 17:10:00 -
[204]
- It's great to have a life outside of a video game, ain't it?«
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.11.17 17:28:00 -
[205]
-1 missle launcher? Fine I can live with that.
5% ROF changed to 5% "bonus" Kinetic damage? What'd you do? Take the padding off the bat before you beat the **it out of it? Why don't we just say castration instead of nerf as this ship has no reason to be flown. For once I would like to be able to PvP in something Caldari that wasn't t2 or a BS.
As for the 7 launcher Caracal with no tank to speaks of? In a heartbeat.
------------------
CEO of TKI
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baru Pel
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Posted - 2006.11.17 17:52:00 -
[206]
Warning: Massive flame bait. Just answering the question
Originally by: Yumi Katanawe Out of curiosity, how much dollars / month you'd earn with a cerberus bpo?
Considering material cost, sell price, current isk/$ ratio.
I mean, I'd be very worried lobbying if those cerb bpos paid my mortgage.
Method. Cerb selling for 250mil isk. construction cost 25mil isk. leaves 225mil isk. 1 cerb a day produced 30 cerbs a month. 6,750 mil isk/month
timecode method: GTC sells for $15 30 GTC goes on the form for 180mil isk 6,750mil isk./ 180mil = 37.5 gtc cards/month 37.5 Gtc*$15 = $562.50 per month
On-line auction method. 200mil isk = aprox $20 6750/200 = 33.75 33.75*$20 = $675 month
Online sale of actual cerb (2 listed on popular auction site for ave. $47 ) 30 * $47 = $1410 per month.
Note: not advocating anything, just running some numbers is all. btw: the last option will pay my morgatge, and car payment. |
Sakura Yoshimitsu
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Posted - 2006.11.17 18:02:00 -
[207]
I live on about 600/mo. Cool :)
Nerf bad!
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Cyberus
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Posted - 2006.11.17 18:16:00 -
[208]
what a hell is wrong with you ppl (ccp)? Ok i'm agree with -1 launshers thats was a bit to much ( did tested by me self ) but change rof for AGAIN stupid kenetic damage is wrong realy wrong. Actualy all this rasial caldari +5% kenetic damage is so stupid!!! I just cant and wont understand how is god**** same missels what coming out same production line with same amount of explosions onboard can have difrent damage hit points?? SILLY very silly. Just drop all this stupid kenetic damages on caldari ships. add better rof bonus, because in my opinion if ya ship able to do more damage bonus then it must be at all damages types
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Sakura Yoshimitsu
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:02:00 -
[209]
Live with 5 friends in a house we all rented. Pretty big too..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:05:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Captain Raynor CCP sorry guys, but you pretty much killed this ship.
Okay dropping a launcher sure, maybe justified the new tier2 battlecruisers did seem a tad overgunned but come on, dropping the rate of fire bonus for kinetic missile damage? The Drake wasn't a big time DPS ship to begin with now it's just pathetic.
Pretty sure when people start whipping up graphs of the tier2 battlecruisers the Drake is going to look rather sad.. might as well use a Caracal. What a joke.
Drake should have kept its ROF bonus.. the -1 turret for hurricane and -1 launcher for drake, okay that is probably reasonable. The Harbinger looks awful good now, in not amazingly good compared to the rest now.
No wonder buddy, TiME AND TIME AGAIN... CCP Gives in to GALLENTE Whiners on forums, and Shun a good ship in the hole.
way to go with Kali.. i don't need new pictures of ships and their info, i need to actually fly something useful!!!
Thanks for using the whining .05% of EvE population to "Balance" the ships in game!
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