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Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:11:54 -
[151] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Magnus Roden wrote: Ganking cost and repercussions are not on par with the cost and repercussions for their targets
False.
~ 20 catalysts vs 1 Freighter
Show me how this is "on par" cost/repercussion wise, I'll make it easy on you and assume the freighter has no cargo onboard.
Go.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25254
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:14:42 -
[152] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:That's weird No, it really isn't. You just haven't been paying attention and you have not thought through what you're actually suggesting.
You are arguing that CONCORD should be transformed from being a core game mechanic that defines an entire section of space into being a regular rat.
Quote:Ah yes, of course. Prove it. This has already been done. Multiple times. Your absolute refusal to accept facts has also been proven multiple times.
Sure it does. Either those cheap ships can kill the target or they can't. You're saying that they shouldn't be able to because of how much more the expensive one costs. This is something that you claim should be inherent in the hull, and not reliant on such ephemera as fittings or piloting or numbers or anything else. The consequence of your wish is that an expensive ship will be safe: because nothing available will sensibly be able to kill it.
Quote:Ganking cost and repercussions are not on par with the cost and repercussions for their targets Good. That means ganking for profit is possible, as intended.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25255
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:19:49 -
[153] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:~ 20 catalysts vs 1 Freighter
Show me how this is "on par" cost/repercussion wise You said it yourself: 20 catalysts vs 1 freighter. Not to mention the scouts, bumpers, haulers, and other parties involved.
The (almost always AFK) freighter spends no time and effort to protect itself, and it stands a minute chance of being lost. The two dozen gankers spend a considerable amount of time and effort, and stands a pretty poor chance of finding a viable target, a so-so chance of making a decent buck, and
Quote:I'll make it easy on you poison the well and make it an outlier case and assume the freighter has no cargo onboard. Then the gank is made for fun and should always happen.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:40:26 -
[154] - Quote
LOL, wow...
1) Concord provides repercussions in case a GCC happens, it kills the ship of the attacker but does not touch the pod. That's how it has always been
2) recently pod loss without a sufficient clone stopped costing SP, as such pod losses are a lot les painful now (which is great for high SP characters who want to clown around).
3) recently we got a type of NPC that DOES pod, this combined with #2 allows for a discussion on whether or not NPC in general should pod kill or not. Pros and cons can be made for both sides
4) however, it REALLY allows for a rethink on whether Concord should also pod (given #2 and #3). This is an arbitrary thing and one can argue both ways but as Concord is very much about repercussion It's fairly logical to state that it makes more sense for Concord to pod than not to
5) pod killing upon GCC would also increase repercussions for ganking which, given silly ganks, seems to still need some rebalancing
6) On top of all that it would cancel out certain options which will make it less easy to gank, specific styles of ganking but also things like pod travel
7) It makes no sense to have outlaws fly around in high sec as they are atm. Shoot on sight, pod kill on sight. Since the police doesn't really leave the gates and stations it's up to concord to take care of outlaws and GCC in a way that fits: destroy their ship, pod kill
I thought we all liked "actions have consequences", "deal with it" and "HTFU lol"? Or is that just what you tell your target?
Ganking should be a last resort option where the cost and repercussions are so high that it's only logical do to in personal or really worthwhile situations. For anything else you can log on your main, leave the cocoon of your hilariously huge coalition and shoot stuff on your own or with a few friends. That or start a war (which would require wars to be unfcked).
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:45:21 -
[155] - Quote
Tippia wrote:How about instead, you demonstrate that it is not on par, since you keep claiming that without anything resembling supporting evidence or argumentation?
cost of 20 Cats vs cost of 1 Freighter, apparently it's not costly enough so ppl even use them on an empty one.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13231
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:48:01 -
[156] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote: ~ 20 catalysts vs 1 Freighter
Show me how this is "on par" cost/repercussion wise, I'll make it easy on you and assume the freighter has no cargo onboard.
Go.
It's not supposed to be on par with cost, and the freighter can easily avoid them, regardless of cargo status.
Your entire premise is false.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:49:06 -
[157] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Magnus Roden wrote: ~ 20 catalysts vs 1 Freighter
Show me how this is "on par" cost/repercussion wise, I'll make it easy on you and assume the freighter has no cargo onboard.
Go.
It's not supposed to be on par with cost, and the freighter can easily avoid them, regardless of cargo status. Your entire premise is false.
oh? Not supposed to? says who, you?
And how can a freighter easily avoid it?
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13231
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:50:37 -
[158] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:Tippia wrote:How about instead, you demonstrate that it is not on par, since you keep claiming that without anything resembling supporting evidence or argumentation? cost of 20 Cats vs cost of 1 Freighter, apparently it's not costly enough so ppl even use them on an empty one.
20 people vs 1 person.
If the 1 person could survive that once combat has started, it would be evidence of a pretty huge imbalance in game mechanics. Fortunately, that is not the case.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13231
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:51:26 -
[159] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote: And how can a freighter easily avoid it?
If you don't even know that, you are singularly unqualified to participate in this discussion.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:52:06 -
[160] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Magnus Roden wrote: And how can a freighter easily avoid it?
If you don't even know that, you are singularly unqualified to participate in this discussion.
Nono, just spell it out so we can slice 'n dice it.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25261
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:52:30 -
[161] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:4) however, it REALLY allows for a rethink on whether Concord should also pod (given #2 and #3). This is an arbitrary thing and one can argue both ways but as Concord is very much about repercussion It's fairly logical to state that it makes more sense for Concord to pod than not to No, it really isn't. CONCORD has no inherent need to pod, and their only purpose is to enforce the cost of aggression. They are not an NPC and do not follow any NPC rules in any way. They are a game mechanic, not a rat.
For CONCORD to pod, that act would have to be in line with their purpose: to enforce costs.
So: why should the costs of ganks increase, seeing as how they are already made ridiculously rare and the costs are already so high that it has become a specialist, high-effort activity for a select few outfits (as you have proven)?
Quote:5) pod killing upon GCC would also increase repercussions for ganking which, given silly ganks, seems to still need some rebalancing Why? What is the problem and how does podding in any way solve that problem?
Quote:6) On top of all that it would cancel out certain options which will make it less easy to gank, specific styles of ganking but also things like pod travel Why should legitimate gameplay be removed?
Quote:7) It makes no sense to have outlaws fly around in high sec as they are atm. Shoot on sight, pod kill on sight. It makes all the sense in the world to let players police players in what is supposed to be a player-driven universe. Outlaws are already shoot-on-sight/pod-on-sight. Beyond that, CONCORD does not care about outlaws, nor is there any reason why they should since they are completely unrelated to CONCORD's purpose.
Quote:I thought we all liked "actions have consequences", "deal with it" and "HTFU lol"? Or is that just what you tell your target?
Ganking should be a last resort option where the cost and repercussions are so high that it's only logical do to in personal or really worthwhile situations. For anything else you can log on your main, leave the cocoon of your hilariously huge coalition and shoot stuff on your own or with a few friends. That or start a war (which would require wars to be unfcked). Gankers already deal with the consequences and have HTFU. The targets refuse to do the same, which is why you are here whining about changes you cannot justify.
Ganking has long since gone past the point you describe: it only happens in really worth-while situations, as you have proven by demonstrating the rarity and the low number of groups engaging in it. If anything, the costs and repercussions need to be dialled back so that more of them can happen. With the amount of traffic going through down the main routes, there must be far more worth-while situations than what currently shows up on the killboards.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25261
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:54:50 -
[162] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:cost of 20 Cats vs cost of 1 Freighter, apparently it's not costly enough so ppl even use them on an empty one. So you're saying that things should be dialled back to the point where only, say, 5GÇô10 cats are required to kill a single freighter. That way, the investments for each side might be a bit more sensibly balanced.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13235
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Posted - 2015.05.31 19:58:43 -
[163] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote: Ganking should be a last resort option where the cost and repercussions are so high that it's only logical do to in personal or really worthwhile situations.
That's your opinion, and your opinion is wrong.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
174
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:03:32 -
[164] - Quote
Magnus please tell us who your mean is so we can see where the bad goons or code touched your indy.
Also i wish you were around in 2010 when gankers would fit a platinum insuranced apocalypse with t2 artillery and alpha billion isk tengus on the undock.
The Falcon punch post clearly states ccps opinion of this. He says you have ways around it, bring friends use your options or HTFU
Also dude wtf is podding gonna help? The ganker will just get teleported back to his gank station.
You are ignorant |
Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:10:13 -
[165] - Quote
Quote:No, it really isn't. CONCORD has no inherent need to pod, and their only purpose is to enforce the cost of aggression. Why don't they need to pod, because it suits you? I'd say that it would increase the cost of aggression and as a plocing force I'd hope they'd want to rule out criminality as much as they can
Quote:They are not an NPC and do not follow any NPC rules in any way. They are a game mechanic, not a rat. The are an NPC, you're just trying to get into semantic details by adding "rat" :)
Quote:Why? What is the problem and how does podding in any way solve that problem?
Why should legitimate gameplay be removed?
Clearly cost is still too low, podding helps a bit with that
Just because it's not deemed an exploit doesn't mean it's desired gameplay, lots of things are/were still officially allowed but resulted in adaptation of rules or game mechanics.
Quote:It makes all the sense in the world to let players police players in what is supposed to be a player-driven universe. Nice try again, given that logic Concord itself should be removed and as it clearly won't be your reasoning doesn't hold.
Quote:Outlaws are already shoot-on-sight/pod-on-sight. Beyond that, CONCORD does not care about outlaws, nor is there any reason why they should since they are completely unrelated to CONCORD's purpose. Hence me stating differentiating between police and Concord, you missed that it seems or did you just want to dazzle me with :words:?
~~ Ganking has long since gone past the point you describe: it only happens in really worth-while situations, as you have proven by demonstrating the rarity and the low number of groups engaging in it. If anything, the costs and repercussions need to be dialled back so that more of them can happen. With the amount of traffic going through down the main routes, there must be far more worth-while situations than what currently shows up on the killboards. ~~
So you're saying Venture, Retriever and Mackinaw ganks don't happen, (nearly) empty freighter ganks also don't happen? Given that they do, easily proven just not through kb links on this forum, your statement is false.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:11:52 -
[166] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Magnus Roden wrote: Ganking should be a last resort option where the cost and repercussions are so high that it's only logical do to in personal or really worthwhile situations.
That's your opinion, and your opinion is wrong.
Yes it's an opinion and as opinions go it can't really be wrong in this regard, it's not to your liking obviously but "wrong"? No.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:14:21 -
[167] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Magnus please tell us who your mean is so we can see where the bad goons or code touched your indy.
Also i wish you were around in 2010 when gankers would fit a platinum insuranced apocalypse with t2 artillery and alpha billion isk tengus on the undock.
The Falcon punch post clearly states ccps opinion of this. He says you have ways around it, bring friends use your options or HTFU
Also dude wtf is podding gonna help? The ganker will just get teleported back to his gank station.
You are ignorant
I've been around since 2004, have done ganking and other "nefarious" stuff. Only ship I ever lost to a gank was a gang link Tengu in a mission system which I used to help me do some mission busting. I contacted the ganker and we had a good laugh.
If you don't know how podding will affect it all then uhm, yeah. And by your own words, if it's not really that important why just not change it right?
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16016
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:15:30 -
[168] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Magnus Roden wrote: Ganking should be a last resort option where the cost and repercussions are so high that it's only logical do to in personal or really worthwhile situations.
That's your opinion, and your opinion is wrong. Yes it's an opinion and as opinions go it can't really be wrong in this regard, it's not to your liking obviously but "wrong"? No.
Your opinion is wrong, ganking is the only way you get piracy in highsec so no, it is not a last resort. Its the only option people have.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13235
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:19:09 -
[169] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote: So you're saying Venture, Retriever and Mackinaw ganks don't happen, (nearly) empty freighter ganks also don't happen? Given that they do, easily proven just not through kb links on this forum, your statement is false.
So, your claim is that ganking is broken because it still happens at all?
I feel fairly confident in telling you that you're not only playing the game wrong, you're playing the wrong game.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:30:09 -
[170] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Magnus Roden wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Magnus Roden wrote: Ganking should be a last resort option where the cost and repercussions are so high that it's only logical do to in personal or really worthwhile situations.
That's your opinion, and your opinion is wrong. Yes it's an opinion and as opinions go it can't really be wrong in this regard, it's not to your liking obviously but "wrong"? No. Your opinion is wrong, ganking is the only way you get piracy in highsec so no, it is not a last resort. Its the only option people have.
Really? Mission busting works fine can flipping still works (yes, there's till idiots with cans out) wardecs also work and you can make money with it if you do it right
What you're saying is that ganking is EASIER than those other, existing, options. Which is, indirectly, pretty much my point: it's too easy still. And, of course the big thing is that ganking like that is "many vs few" which is what the hilarious clown coalitions really like because otherwise it would just be scary.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13236
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:37:24 -
[171] - Quote
If you hadn't already disqualified yourself from this subject when you admitted that you don't know how to defend freighters, talking about can flipping like it's still a thing would have.
You're digging yourself deeper, and you're going to need a shovel fairly soon.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:40:44 -
[172] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:If you hadn't already disqualified yourself from this subject when you admitted that you don't know how to defend freighters, talking about can flipping like it's still a thing would have.
You're digging yourself deeper, and you're going to need a shovel fairly soon.
Why would that be, because you ran out of arguments or because you actually have a case?
People still jetcan, moreso than most folks realise and you can still do it fine. It's just that it's less restricted as it was before the crimewatch changes (I'm not a fan at all of most of those changes) but it still works fine, you just need to be a bit more careful. There's now more risk involved, this may scare you.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16019
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:42:11 -
[173] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:baltec1 wrote:Magnus Roden wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Magnus Roden wrote: Ganking should be a last resort option where the cost and repercussions are so high that it's only logical do to in personal or really worthwhile situations.
That's your opinion, and your opinion is wrong. Yes it's an opinion and as opinions go it can't really be wrong in this regard, it's not to your liking obviously but "wrong"? No. Your opinion is wrong, ganking is the only way you get piracy in highsec so no, it is not a last resort. Its the only option people have. Really? Mission busting works fine can flipping still works (yes, there's till idiots with cans out) wardecs also work and you can make money with it if you do it right What you're saying is that ganking is EASIER than those other, existing, options. Which is, indirectly, pretty much my point: it's too easy still. And, of course the big thing is that ganking like that is "many vs few" which is what the hilarious clown coalitions really like because otherwise it would just be scary.
Mission running has nothing to do with piracy. can flipping has nothing to do with piracy war decs are not instant nor will people continue to haul while they are active. They are also useless vs npc corps.
The only way to pirate shipping is to gank them.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:44:15 -
[174] - Quote
Piracy is about making profit with your pvp, mission busting, can flipping and wardeccing can make good cash. I've been running 5-7 accounts since 2007 (since I started doing this) all plexed up and paid for with piracy and some combat exploration on the side.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13236
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:44:20 -
[175] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote: Why would that be, because you ran out of arguments or because you actually have a case?
Because you are arguing from a position of total ignorance, willing ignorance at that.
Magnus Roden wrote:Piracy is about making profit with your pvp, mission busting, can flipping and wardeccing can make good cash. I've been running 5-7 accounts since 2007 (since I started doing this) all plexed up and paid for with piracy and some combat exploration on the side.
You lie.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16019
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:45:40 -
[176] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:Piracy is about making profit with your pvp, mission busting, can flipping and wardeccing can make good cash. I've been running 5-7 accounts since 2007 (since I started doing this) all plexed up and paid for with piracy and some combat exploration on the side.
None of those activities are piracy.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Magnus Roden
9
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:50:49 -
[177] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Magnus Roden wrote:Piracy is about making profit with your pvp, mission busting, can flipping and wardeccing can make good cash. I've been running 5-7 accounts since 2007 (since I started doing this) all plexed up and paid for with piracy and some combat exploration on the side.
None of those activities are piracy.
Really now, what's your idea of piracy. Being -10?
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1081
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:52:35 -
[178] - Quote
Why is everyone talking to that forum alt? Does not look like he has something new to say. It's basically the same stuff he said with his last forum alt when he derailed the last thread which was not about ISK tanking.
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13238
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:56:23 -
[179] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Why is everyone talking to that forum alt? Does not look like he has something new to say. It's basically the same stuff he said with his last forum alt when he derailed the last thread which was not about ISK tanking.
Curious, which one do you think it is? It's not Basil, he hasn't ranted about "grief decs" or how docking in an exploit, so I'm not sure which one of the usual carebear trolls it might be.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Sykaotic
Renegade Armada.
53
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Posted - 2015.05.31 20:56:37 -
[180] - Quote
I am neutral on this
but anyways I say...
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