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Mazare Mircea
Gallente Delta team Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:44:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/11/2006 08:46:05
Ok, graph time (changed graph)
After receiving lots of comments about the poor graph (and yeah, it was poor), ive tried to replace it with a better one. Feel free to comment.
About the tanking abilities I cant show the tanking abilities unfortunately. But Myrmidon has +37.5% repair amount bonus and 50% drone hitpoint bonus for example. Drake 25% shield resists. Harbinger doesnt have anything, and Hurricane doesnt have anything.
If you take that into account and then look at the graph, can you understand why the Hurricane got nerfed? I cant. I felt it was balanced and I still do. Now it sucks.
Myrmidon doesn't have the drone bay for heavy drones, so use mediums. And if you wonder why, with the new HP change, the target will actually have time to pop 4 drones that are also very easy to target because they have a large sig. -----
Do androids dream of electric sheep ? |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:44:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/11/2006 10:30:05
Originally by: murder one
Come on Jim. Make a graph that reflects actual fittings
Fine. Give me fitting suggestions for all ships that everybody agrees are good, and ill do it. And as for myrmidon, you can do what you want with it. Im going to use it with 4 Ogre II and a rack of dampeners, and laugh while the opponent sits there dying.
Arrite, I'll try and come up with some decent realistic fittings for the Hurricane, Harbinger and Myrmidon. Could someone else come up with some pwnage Drake setups? My shield/missile skills suck on test so I really can't fit it out like it should be.
Because I said so...
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Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:46:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Miklas Laces on 17/11/2006 10:48:21
Originally by: Jim McGregor Fine. Give me fitting suggestions for all ships that everybody agrees are good, and ill do it.
Put Ion Blasters instead of Neutron and it's ok. I would put 2 heavy and 5 medium drones, if the spreadhseet can't mix drones just go with 4 heavies.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:49:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/11/2006 10:50:28
Originally by: Mazare Mircea
Myrmidon doesn't have the drone bay for heavy drones, so use mediums. And if you wonder why, with the new HP change, the target will actually have time to pop 4 drones that are also very easy to target because they have a large sig.
No, because Myrmidon will use dampeners, or scoop/deploy them constantly. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:50:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Miklas Laces
I would put 2 heavy and 5 medium drones, if the spreadhseet can't mix drones just go with 4 heavies.
It cant unfortunately. I would love that option...
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:53:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Miklas Laces on 17/11/2006 10:55:09
Originally by: Jim McGregor No, because Myrmidon will use dampeners, or scoop/deploy them constantly.
I don't know how many dampeners you plan to put on your Myrmidon, personally zero, but there's no way you can reduce the range of the target ship to the point that it won't be able to lock your drones.
The scoop & re-deploy thing works ok if you're very short range, you'll lose some DPS of course. If you're at more than 10km forget it, your drones will go *pop* so fast.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:54:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/11/2006 10:56:21
Originally by: Miklas Laces
Originally by: Jim McGregor No, because Myrmidon will use dampeners, or scoop/deploy them constantly.
I don't know how many dampeners you plan to put on your Myrmidon, personally zero, but there's no way you can reduce the range of the target ship to the point that it won't be able to lock your drones.
No, but I can delay it. Dampeners dont only affect range, it affects speed as well. So I would just have the drones out for a while until the opponent finally can fire at them, then scoop them back in for repairs, then deploy again.
1x web, 1x warp scrambler, 3x dampeners and a full tank.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Danii
CryoTech
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:20:00 -
[68]
Only Scorch for the Harbinger? Why not Conf?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:27:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Danii Only Scorch for the Harbinger? Why not Conf?
Ive picked the longer range t2 ammo for everybody. Would need another graph for the close range t2 ammo for everybody. :)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:29:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jim McGregor 1x web, 1x warp scrambler, 3x dampeners and a full tank.
You won't get many kills with that setup, though. With good (or better: max) skills 3 damperners will force anything which is no BS or no recon or has no sensor boosters fitted (which exculdes many ships, but also includes a good amount) into web range, but unless you lock the ship within webber range in the first place you give every ship but a BSs (and maybe a drake) the option to outrun your scrambler range and warp off.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:32:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Jim McGregor 1x web, 1x warp scrambler, 3x dampeners and a full tank.
You won't get many kills with that setup, though. With good (or better: max) skills 3 damperners will force anything which is no BS or no recon or has no sensor boosters fitted (which exculdes many ships, but also includes a good amount) into web range, but unless you lock the ship within webber range in the first place you give every ship but a BSs (and maybe a drake) the option to outrun your scrambler range and warp off.
Yeah, it wont work very good solo.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Ewa Quillam
Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Ewa Quillam
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/11/2006 21:37:05
Originally by: Ewa Quillam I'm very misspleased that u didn't put plain T2 Heavy Missile launchers on the drake with either Fury or Precision Scourge heavies...
The graph would be very, very different...
Yeah well, there will be more graphs. And why not make one yourself?
By the way, Drake with 2 damage mods and t2 heavy launchers with scourge fury: 343 dps out to 40 km. With prec, 264 dps.
The 40km range says a lot, with 15km u risk that an interceptor scrams u from 20km and calls for help. I like to have options and assault heavy launchers don't let much of those.
Are you kidding me? Heavy assault missiles can reach over 60km in a drake.
The first graph had only one representation for the drake and that stopped at 15km.
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:36:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 17/11/2006 11:38:11
Things to consider about the Myrmidon:
You can remove 300 DPS in 10 seconds by popping the heavy drones.
You have to get into Void optimal which with 50% reduced falloff is no easy task.
No-one in their right mind will use Neutrons. You won't even be able to fit a rep. Drake DPS is realistic. Mrym DPS is pure fantasy because no-one will fit like that.
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nexvis
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:40:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/11/2006 10:30:05
Originally by: murder one
Come on Jim. Make a graph that reflects actual fittings
Fine. Give me fitting suggestions for all ships that everybody agrees are good, and ill do it. And as for myrmidon, you can do what you want with it. Im going to use it with 4 Ogre II and a rack of dampeners, and laugh while the opponent sits there dying.
Heavy electron II, null, hammerhead II, no damage mods.
Running the numbers real quick with maxed skills with my ever handy windows calculator (excel is for noobs), I'm coming up with 440.5 DPS. with 4 Ogre II (380.2), 583.1 total output. Which at ~82% the output displayed in your graph is a very far cry from its current placement, much more inline with the other 3 while really out-damaging only the drake (minus the ridiculous cap-independant passive tank).
Might as well fly a heavey electron dual rep brutix, 295.9dps from guns (null), and 454.3 with 5 hammerII's. Fancy that, the tier 1 BC outdamages the tier 2 using mediums, and unlike the myrim..imim..erad...onmon...thing its primary output is *NOT* targetable, and when you inevitably run out of cap boosters and drones because ships take too **** long to die, at least you will have lost a cheaper ship.
Face it, the dual repper tank isn't actually all it's chalked up to be, bonus or not, two words: cap hog. Relying on targetable drones *with no spares* to even compete in terms of output with the other ships in its class is NOT a good recipe for success. Drones get popped, damage output goes through the floor (202.9), cap boosters get used up (god forbid there's a nos pointed at you at the same time), insurance gets paid.
See how this works? Or should I say, doesn't work?
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