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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
Michael Motsu
Helion Production Labs Independent Operators Consortium
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:26:53 -
[541] - Quote
I like the graphical changes to the games but these overview icons are eye cancer to me and everyone else I've talked to. Nothing was wrong with the original ones, and I doubt anyone has ever said "I wish these squares were triangles and house looking". I'd like to see the old icon come back the the games asap so it is easy to tell a drone from anything else or an npc BS to a frig. |
Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
20
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:32:38 -
[542] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
Hi Surge, and CCP Art Team.
I hope you take the time to read my comments regarding the new icon set, I've been playing EVE for nigh-on a decade myself, and have spent the time in space doing various forms of PVP warfare.
The new Icon set has a fantastic philosophy, the idea behind the pointy and flat tops, the lines and other little details are very intelligent design language. But...
They are not 'at-a-glance' icon sets, they are in fact very far from being intuitive during combat in EVE. I've been on SiSi for a few hours in the past few weeks during our alliance tournament practice matches so I've had to endure the new changes and am totally opposed to the new icon sets from a combat perspective.
The core issue is the amount of detail you put in, it's the complete opposite of the old icon set which was absolutely fantastic and easy to follow during intense circumstances: Squares were player ships - every time. "+"s were NPC ships, whether they be Agents, Pirates, Mission Rats or Faction Agents "x"s were drones, it didn't matter small/medium/large/fighter - they were drones of some type. Wrecks were these odd little triangle things that were like very little else in game.
These four things are the most you'll interact with in EVE PVP, they need to each stand alone and be discernable at-a-glance to understand the situation you're engaged in. The old icon set despite age communicated this brilliantly and stood the test of time for players in use for over a decade. Considering the UI is the only way most players know what is going on, changes here seem to be taken lightly and without cautious review or player buy-in. Even the option to flick back to old is not there which is what is causing most of the fury.
Okay now that I've explained what worked in the old set, lets look at what doesn't work in the new set.
- First off - there is too much detail, simplify the design. - Drone icons are now bigger than frigate hulls and stand out a lot more - even though the Frigate hull a far more threatening opponent than a drone. - There are far too many ship icons now, you already need to remember hundreds of ship names and classes, let alone icon sets that are this specific. - Place 20 pilots on a grid and have each of them drop 5 drones, then set them to fight. In small-gang meta it is very confusing and hard to see what you are targeting or shooting, drones and ships are not discernable. - Wrecks and drones and ships are too alike, they do not stand out each on their own - Take a look at this image ( https://i.imgur.com/ighoK8j.png ) - this is a small 11 v 10 fight, yet it is very hard to see what is going on from this view (at a glance). If you sit and study it, you can get it, but not with a quick look before you go back to managing module heat.
In my opinion these four things should look nothing alike: * Ships * Drones * NPCs * Wrecks
Everything else is lesser used and can be studied, but the above 4 are things that require view priority.
Probably the most silly thing in this whole debacle is how little attention was payed to the player feedback from SiSi, and how quickly you implemented this icon set.
Please allow players to use the old set while you polish the new set. I would love to use them once you achieve the above objectives.
Cheers.
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Urbusk P'Tchu
Westward Bound
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:33:06 -
[543] - Quote
Really . This must be a late April fools joke . Total trash . Please find a way to let us change this back . I know change is the only consistent in this world . but wow . |
Amdison Habe
Leng Technology Group
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:33:22 -
[544] - Quote
i've been playing now for about 6 months and i wanted to make a comment about the overview icons and general feel of the star map.
to keep it short: i liked the extremely simple icons and the /very/ low-tech-looking scanning map.
the simple blue grid scanning spheres over a black & white orbital map (with some red, yellow, and green icons) provided a very realistic, utilitarian, and almost gritty reality to the game. some of that appeal may come from the fact that i didn't grow up with ipods or any of the modern operating systems, and i understand some would see this look as half-done or lazy.
having that super-simple language of symbols and icons contributed to a special language, almost like an inside joke, that added to the reality of the game for me.
i understand that lowering the barriers to entry by doing things like making the icons (maybe) a little more intuitive will make the game more accessible to more people...which will hopefully result in more fun for me (specifically through more funding for CCP).
the biggest draw to me, though, for eve was the fact that it is pointedly /not/ for everyone. making people commit to reading and processing information, even learning a somewhat-cryptic icon language, meant to me that i would find a community with a high percentage of serious players. underpants-mailbox-dancers (read: WoW) need not apply.
you'll find no rage or threats of quitting in this message, i have no intention of leaving eve any time soon; i just wanted to make my contribution to the discussion what with being a new citizen and all... |
Urbusk P'Tchu
Westward Bound
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:44:04 -
[545] - Quote
Xert Trassien wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Steijn wrote:[quote=Xen Solarus]So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP! My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution?? what UI scaling are you using? On 90% they are really bad. We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons.
THE ISSUES ARE WITH THE NEW ICONS. They suck a$$ dont you guys get it ????
God help us all [/q
Really . I take it this is something u r going to shove down are throats . CCP . Total trash. |
W33b3l
Wolf-Monkey Bastards
15
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:48:07 -
[546] - Quote
Ive also been having issues with the station environment not loading when I dock since the update. I thought it was my video drivers but it isnt. It always works when I log in, but when I dock from space I get a black background. Usually the only way to get it to work is to relog.
GTX760
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Canon Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:54:48 -
[547] - Quote
some wrong with the warp?? and the new icon in 90% UI scaling is really bad!!!! |
Simon Ijonen
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:57:16 -
[548] - Quote
I wouldnt call it successfully deployed while many of us cant even start the game. Honestly, if a patch breaks things then DONT RELEASE IT. Dont hold to a schedule and give us something so half baked. |
Dartholemus
Repercussus Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 02:57:24 -
[549] - Quote
I recommend everyone open a support ticket for icons - it's clearly a glitch. |
Arzi Reece
Katniss Everdeen Pride
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:03:52 -
[550] - Quote
Having issues downloading the launcher update, repair tool did not work
Im paying for Eve I cannot play Eve I WANT TO PLAY EVE
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Sykaotic
Renegade Armada.
55
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:06:05 -
[551] - Quote
Main issue seems to be peeps do not like the new icons.
Reminds me of New Coke! |
Odil Enskij
Cagey sloggers
37
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:07:17 -
[552] - Quote
overview icons very bad overview now is mess
return old icons, or do it selectable
"ISK - the ULTIMATE GUIDE to EVE ONLINE"
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Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
494
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:08:13 -
[553] - Quote
Regarding new icons
Could "Generic" just mean too lazy to do it right?
If I had been expecting anything decent I would be surprised at this but CCP does have a track record to maintain. Why do it right when halfassed gets you by.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
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Flick Narbotan
Deep Deep Derps
22
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:12:40 -
[554] - Quote
Another -1 to the new icons. Too complicated and very hard to see on a 90% UI. |
Kione Keikira
Sleepless Guardians Unreachable
13
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:14:02 -
[555] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
There is one problem with the current icons, the fact that they're right in the middle of the ship which means there is always something obscured. Sometimes it's not too much of a problem, but when you're trying to see which way a ship is travelling at a glance it is rather difficult when all I can see is an icon. I suggest you keep the faint 4 corners around the object / ship but offset the icon to the lower right so it doesn't obscure the actual object. Kind of a halfway point between the new icons and the old brackets. Another nice feature would to have the 4 corners expand as the ship gets closer, so nothing is ever obscured and you have a sense of distance without having to look at the overview.
Regarding the actual icons themselves rather than their placement, what happened to these? http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/ORVAR_1.png They look a lot more polished and representative than the current icons which seem too simple and a little mismatched.
Master of being misunderstood.
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Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1421
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:19:12 -
[556] - Quote
So there was a lot of talk elsewhere, and previously, about taking color out of the UI because we distinguish things faster by shape. (Hence, the new neocom icons, etc.) Now, we have this new set of overview icons which force us to rely on color much more. The shape distinctions between players and rats, for example, are minimal. Does this mean we should expect our best reaction times to be slower across the board when dealing with the overview in space? Not a good move. Besides, the old icons were intuitive. I didn't really have to learn them. They were basic and easy. Nothing to memorize, no learning curve, just bam. Instantly useable for a new player. Which brings up another issue. Over the past year or two we've seen a lot of changes here and there geared at making the new player learning curve less steep and more accessible, and even at making some things more streamlined for older players. Well, these new icons also work against that effort, taking things back in the new direction. Expect some frustration, and I'd bet ultimately, a lower percentage of subs from trial players. Seriously.
I'll give the new icons some time, but my first impression is that I don't like them. Maybe after some time to get used to them, I'll like them better. I do see the value in being able to distinguish between a frigate and a destroyer, for example, at a glance. We'll see.
Do not run. We are your friends.
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Circumstantial Evidence
184
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:23:18 -
[557] - Quote
Dartholemus wrote:I recommend everyone open a support ticket for icons - it's clearly a glitch. I read this as sarcasm, but for the literal minded: Support will refer tickets back to the forums, and close them. A waste of everyone's time.
CCP Surge: 90% scaling is invaluable for maximizing vertical text info, especially the number of items in the overview list without scrolling. Although, as screen resolutions push higher toward "Quad HD," it will be used less. You must have data on player's settings. I hope you will / can pre-render a set at 90%.
I agree that supporting two systems will be a pain. FC's will have to know both icon sets, because pilots in their fleets could be using both.
Giving Color options for icons would be great. Giving back control of UI color schemes, would also be great.
Not taking over the camera, to ram my eyes through each gate jump would also be great, but now I'm going firmly off topic. Its cool to look at the first few times, but that "wow factor" I remember from the Fanfest video presentation, wore off after the first week it was introduced. If I don't need to see space, I take all long trips on the map screen. I think the gate jump animation should be more like the in-system warp tunnel effect, that doesn't take over your camera viewpoint.
For players complaining about drone icons: its very helpful to create overview tabs / bracket profiles, so you only see them when you need to see them. In large fleet fights, drones are usually taken off overview and in-space brackets, to preserve client FPS, and cut down on screen clutter.
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
264
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:24:51 -
[558] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote: FC's will have to know both icon sets, because pilots in their fleets could be using both. Well if FC broadcasts a target people will see it no matter what icon set is used.
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Arzi Reece
Katniss Everdeen Pride
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:28:10 -
[559] - Quote
Gabriel Ironfist wrote:Arzi Reece wrote:Can't Launch the game....Great I think this is one of the most constructive comment CCP got for this Release... On the launcher, under settings there is a " Run Repair tool" Option m8. Try that out. 99.9% it solves problems....
Repair tool doesnt work at all. It crashes my launcher. I tried downloading the new launcher and it wont download even 1 Mb. |
Box That Beat
Boxxed
12
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:28:51 -
[560] - Quote
lol rat wrecks look like roids... what a mess ....... GREAT WORK ccp make a mess for all... And thanks for the controled response of well wait and see do ur self a favor and fire the people that did this mess |
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Box That Beat
Boxxed
12
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:30:13 -
[561] - Quote
Arzi Reece wrote:Gabriel Ironfist wrote:Arzi Reece wrote:Can't Launch the game....Great I think this is one of the most constructive comment CCP got for this Release... On the launcher, under settings there is a " Run Repair tool" Option m8. Try that out. 99.9% it solves problems.... Repair tool doesnt work at all. It crashes my launcher. I tried downloading the new launcher and it wont download even 1 Mb.
Thought it was just my computer doing this.... been having problem for a week now |
Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
22
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:32:31 -
[562] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:.
For players complaining about drone icons: its very helpful to create overview tabs / bracket profiles, so you only see them when you need to see them. In large fleet fights, drones are usually taken off overview and in-space brackets, to preserve client FPS, and cut down on screen clutter.
You make it sound like this is a non issue. Think about what you're advocating here: "If you can't tell things apart at a glance, set everything on separate overview tabs and flick between them during PvP"
This is a ridiculous notion and completely apologist for the terrible design. It worked fine before, now it doesn't, we should not have to work around icons being obtuse.
Also eve PvP extends beyond fleet fights. Every fight I am in I need to see players, drones, wrecks and NPCs, at all times, without switching brackets. Bracket switching is not tenable when fighting in the smallgang meta, you'll miss something critical and die.
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RuriHoshino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
8
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:47:04 -
[563] - Quote
So CCP, like most artists, have created something that they love, but that no one can use or understand. |
Kiera Oramara
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:48:05 -
[564] - Quote
ok how can i get the old ones back ? This new ones is WAY to messy :(
HOTFIX them back plz |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3434
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:49:48 -
[565] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:............
Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness? I think all NPCs should have some color, other than white. Red is already used for hostiles. Maybe yellow for NPCs that are not hostile, but you should not attack, like CONCORD, or customs officers? Green for ones that are friendly?
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1422
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:51:17 -
[566] - Quote
Well, at least the new marauder skins are freaking cool.
Do not run. We are your friends.
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Abraxcis Caine
Crack Rock Inc. Serenitas Solutus
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:51:30 -
[567] - Quote
Yay for Serp skins!!! Black is back. Thanks for listening CCP.
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Souiginto
Erratic. Easily Excited
5
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:58:10 -
[568] - Quote
1. new Icons are terrible - old overview was perfectly fine + they look like they got created in MS Paint
I think "Deal with it but we might (probably not) consider your feedback in a couple weeks" just cements the current stance CCP takes by forcing unwanted, unnecessary changes onto the players and this is definitely not the way a company that wants to keep their paying customers should go.
2. ship thumbnails in Hangar are way too bright/overexposed
3. good job on most of the effects/shaders - some of the SKINs look really sweet now, kinda disappointed in the Aliastra one tho |
Ahed Sten
22
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:59:51 -
[569] - Quote
Lots of whining going on about the new icons. Not surprised.
The old icon system had been in place for a decade. If CCP expected anything BUT vast quantities of tears following the change they're either stupid or naive, and they're neither stupid nor naive.
Calm down and take a breather. You will get used to the new icons with time. |
Joana Allier
United Conflict Space Command Gentlemen's.Club
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:00:37 -
[570] - Quote
CCP, I appreciate the effort, very nice stuff, but, please for the love of god, don't give us some 1900's pixel-ed icons... this is a space ship game, futuristic.... and yet we get this pixel-ed crap that looks like it was made in 1998 version of paint. I like all of the rest of the game changes, (WOOT for ceptor burning 30 jumps just to chase off a wh gang entosesing one of our stations). but please, please give us some icons that looks sorta futuristic. |
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