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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
MoonCat79
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2015.06.07 07:20:40 -
[1291] - Quote
i'd like the old icons back |
bump bunny
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.06.07 07:22:18 -
[1292] - Quote
MoonCat79 wrote:i'd like the old icons back
me too |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
324
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Posted - 2015.06.07 07:33:28 -
[1293] - Quote
gargars wrote:Normally I cut CCP a lot of slack, and yes change takes some getting used to... BUT.... after several days of playing....
The new icons are ridiculous. I can't see what purpose they provide, and I do not like to have to WORK in a game I have enjoyed for so long re-memorizing a bunch of hideous icons for no real reason. Eve is already too much like a second job. Why make that WORSE? Why ignore the feedback on sisi? Why ignore the feedback HERE?
100% agree. The most upsetting part is that all of the feedback from the test server seems to have been completely ignored.
After several days, I too have a lot of issues distinguishing types. Please allow players to use the old set - they were completely fine and useable. My game experience is worse off for not being able to read the overview correctly.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
19
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Posted - 2015.06.07 08:08:48 -
[1294] - Quote
bump bunny wrote:MoonCat79 wrote:i'd like the old icons back me too
me too |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
280
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Posted - 2015.06.07 08:34:57 -
[1295] - Quote
Grubgrafter wrote:bump bunny wrote:MoonCat79 wrote:i'd like the old icons back me too me too Same here, please bring old icons back.
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noney bunny
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.06.07 09:11:18 -
[1296] - Quote
cant stand the new ones, like the old ones back |
Cartheron Crust
Matari Exodus The Camel Empire
171
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Posted - 2015.06.07 09:38:11 -
[1297] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Grubgrafter wrote:bump bunny wrote:MoonCat79 wrote:i'd like the old icons back me too me too Same here, please bring old icons back.
This. All I need from the brackets/icons is to know if it is a ship or not. Then I can read the next column to see what it is. As it is the icons look very similar no matter what they are and although I get what the intended outcome was, the actual result is more complexity for zero gain. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
84
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Posted - 2015.06.07 09:56:37 -
[1298] - Quote
ARMED1 wrote:OK so for any of us who actually PVP and want to quickly and easily identify anything ship related, I have found one viable work around for the current terribad overview situation. I will share here so hopefully others can benefit from it as well. That is what Eli Stan has been done and doing for a long time now, even before Carnyx hit and he also mentioned this a couple of times in this topic to share his experiences c: Glad to see this workaround works for others.
However... the more people find a workaround to get along with the overview icons again, the more people will be able to play the game again, which means CCP could default back to "players adapt, the change is fine." I'm not saying they will, but... you know. It also reduces the amount of people having a problem. It diminishes our message of "CCP , you did a stupid, remove it."
Just like CCP Rise said that Veterans will help new players out of the opportunity mess anyway. That might probably the reason why opportunities have not been touched since about 2 months, based on sisi status.
So I don't want to sound like an angry or intentionally bad person, because I'm not. I just think sharing experiences of how things can be tweaked currently are not helpful to the cause.
We need a solution to this issue that does not require players to arbitrarily change their style of playing. We need a solution on a developer level, not a player level. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13329
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Posted - 2015.06.07 10:34:58 -
[1299] - Quote
What was wrong with the old system, anyway?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Galen Dnari
Damage Unlimited
26
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Posted - 2015.06.07 10:47:18 -
[1300] - Quote
Has there ever been a patch in which players didnt find something to ***** about? No? That's what I thought.
http://eveboard.com/ub/1939472205-31.png
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Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
20
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Posted - 2015.06.07 10:54:26 -
[1301] - Quote
Galen Dnari wrote:Has there ever been a patch in which players didnt find something to ***** about? No? That's what I thought.
Sometimes there are false alarms, therefore there are never real fires? |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
84
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Posted - 2015.06.07 11:09:24 -
[1302] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:What was wrong with the old system, anyway?
Galen Dnari wrote:Has there ever been a patch in which players didnt find something to ***** about? No? That's what I thought.
*sighs* Oblivious and ignorant people like you make it much more difficult to communicate properly with the developers, since they have to sift through the rubble to find the useful information worth reading.
Louanne Barros wrote:There is one good point, and that is the introduction of icons/brackets for things that previously had none, like 'Biomass'; this makes it easier to avoid being decloaked by such objects. Anything that can decloak you should have an icon, in my opinion. I noticed I totally forgot to reply to this, sorry :c I'm wondering if it really is that important for everything to have an icon? I mean, sometimes the absence of an icon can me a much better indicator than the presence of one, especially when we look at their interactivity. By the way, is anyone else having trouble deciphering the corpse as a corpse? It looks more like a rocket or torpedo to me. Even at 100% scaling Oh and, Louanne; an icon does not help if people don't even have those things added to the overview in the first place *giggles* |
Yokadesch
Space-Brewery-Association Did he say Jump
1
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Posted - 2015.06.07 11:19:58 -
[1303] - Quote
I dont like the new icons - we have now ~125 (???) different icons ingame. I just dont want to learn this.
I also dont think you are right with the idea behind the new icons. If I fight a cruiser gang I dont care so much about if they all sitting in cruiser and 4 in frigs and 2 in dessis. I still have to check shiptypes so i can kill ecm and logi first and so on.
If you check this thread I think over 80% of the player dont like them - so please give us back the old stuff
The rest of the patch is nice - I like the idea behind the new SOV System |
Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
507
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Posted - 2015.06.07 11:29:52 -
[1304] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote: We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons.
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far. Will getting "UI scaling" right also fix the issue with the icons in space being blurry and indistinct? Or do we just play with "hide all brackets" and not see them at all? Will it make the oh so very subtle differences between some of the icons clear enough to be easily visible if your not using a UHD monitor? Subtle grey filling doesn't show up well, if at all in all but the darkest areas of space. A line under a triangle is not immediately obvious as a different ship when you have graphics set for performance.
It isn't a simple matter of taking time to get used to them, no-one should have to get used to something that is blurry and not well defined.
You could try using them on the type of hardware the average player uses, then you may have some idea what we are supposed to "get used to". You really want to do what is best for the game? Roll back the icons to what has worked and worked well for the last 12 years. When (if) you get a set of new icons that are suitable (current ones aren't, sorry), introduce them then but only after proper testing and feedback, that is actually listened to.
So much feedback on SISI said they were bad and you dumped them on us anyway. "Dumped" is the only suitable word, as they simply don't go close to qualifying as an "update".
PS; Isn't thanking us for feedback your ignoring just a little hypocritical ?
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
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E6o5
Tyler Durden Demolitions
300
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Posted - 2015.06.07 12:17:28 -
[1305] - Quote
day two of the War: Tyler Durden Demolitions vs. C C P Alliance: they still haven't learnt the new icons and therefore refuse to undock |
Sullen Bear
Arctic Spirit
24
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Posted - 2015.06.07 12:54:04 -
[1306] - Quote
6th day. New icons still terrible. Need old icons back. The reason was explained early. |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1676
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Posted - 2015.06.07 13:00:11 -
[1307] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:What was wrong with the old system, anyway?
I guessCCP thought it didn't gave enough specific information. Just like the information overlay when you hover over a sun icon where next to it in the overview you can read that it's a sun, the information overlay tells you once more that the icon is a sun. Apparently CCP thinks the player base' combined IQ went down below that of a chimp.
And CCP needed new icons for the '5' people behind 4k monitors.
Instead of writing a script:
if 4k (then use crap icons);
they saddled us all up with this garbage. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
84
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Posted - 2015.06.07 13:06:00 -
[1308] - Quote
Just a little thing of constructive feedback to keep the mind rolling by repeating the obvious, because I think it is time again for some:
Old player ships: Open lines at corners in rectangle / square shape with no fills Old NPC ships: filled crosses of varying size and different colour than player ships. Old celestials: closed lines with no fills (except sun)
New player ships: Closed lines with no fills except unimportant things like shuttle and rookie ship) in 4 shapes: triangle, diamond, "bulbish" and rounded trapezoid. New NPC ships: same like player ships, except different colour New celestials: closed lines with some transparency fill. Icon overload for structures.
It boggles my mind how even reading these concept differences and impasses could pass QA.
The rest of this reply is dedicated to darkchild's corpse and Myriad Blaze, and IGÇÖm sorry for the less detailed reply here, but it is not feasible to comment every little thing individually :c
IGÇÖm very sure both of your scale tests will never look like what the engine does ingame. Most people doing scaled mockups make the mistake of scaling the ENTIRE finished concept image instead of scaling each icon individually. The results look vastly different. Even if scaling the exact same size of the icon, most scaling algorithms are of at least bilinear quality, but usually itGÇÖs the (even better) bicubic quality. This is problematic for tests because even bilinear looks better than how eve scales icons. Take the icon sheet they submitted, scale one icon there in photoshop or whatever you use, and compare it to what you see in the actual game. The difference is mindboggling. If Eve used a better scaling algorithm, things only would be half as bad. Still bad though.
So judging by that alone, every scaling attempt of you will look better than what it would look like ingame. And your icons will also look better to the people reading here, because you present your icons in a concept-style fashion, and only use a small sample of icons. You donGÇÖt add tags to obstruct the bottom right corner, and you donGÇÖt paste those icons into a screenshot of the overview frame to compare them to each individually or to other icons. This is the reason why many concepts look good when presented like that, but they are completely worthless when putting them where they are supposed to work.
That said, I see more merit in MyriadGÇÖs second attempt to adapt in the style of the new icons, than in darkchildGÇÖs corpse attempt to re-invent the old icons, even if we ignore scaling.
darkchild's corpse wrote:1) if you go for the top row, simply do what they did with the old icons: shrink them vertically
2) in my opinion we don't need to have that many different icons for industrial ships in general. in my opinion the icons should make the decision to run or to fight easier. i don't run from industrial ships :D i play the game since years and i know what i personally would expect. and this is what i create my suggestions based on. unfortunately i can't simply put the icons into the game to test them. CCP... y u no give me source code? :D
3) the smaller each information is displayed, the more information you can view at the same time. 1) So by doing what you suggest, squishing them vertically, your icon design choice becomes more limited, and you have to come up with clearly distinguishable new shapes. You might manage that, and I'm sure I'm sure they will work in 100% scaling, but we need to deliver 90% properly. Else your Freighters and Rorquals will close their brackets on the side. And then youGÇÖll still have the same problem of making those icons separate enough from OTHER types of icons.
2) Not only do you make a contradicting statement, but it is also just your opinion and playstyle. You're letting this influence your design choices, so your experience with the game matters little in this case. It will bias the issues you want to see fixed, while ignoring others. See, you NEED to distinguish combat ships from non-combat ships and those have to be distinguishable from everything else too. You want to know what you DON'T need to shoot, and you want to see non-combat ships properly if you are aiming for them specifically. Overview filters don't matter in this case. There are many people doing pvp who have all ship types on their overview, because why let a non-combat ship get away, right? c: So you NEED the distinction to be clear.
3) That is not true. The smaller your space becomes, the less choices for shapes and variations you have and the harder people with smaller screens or less than ideal eyesight or both will be negatively affected. In fact, most of the time it is the relative amount of UNUSED space which makes the grade or not. Because this unused space allows for better visibility of what the rest of the icon is, and the unused space also allows for more spacing from one icon to the next.
Myriad Blaze wrote:I assume that would be mine. I wasn't assaulting your persona c: I did not even link your name to the image! I just looked at the work, looked at the current icons and for several reasons that are not relevant any more due to your update, I felt any benefit you added was outweighed by something worse, and we were still on the same "bad" level as the original designs. Your second attempt is definitely better, but if I scale them as bad as I can (which is still better than how eve would scale them) and add a colour tag to the bottom right, there are still icons which are too similar to each other, while others get confusing.
I get hysterical giggles whenever I see a cruiser or battlecruiser on the overview because every single time I think; "look, someone build a house in space!" especially when there are so many of them. It is Monopoly online with "radiation blur" mod enabled. |
Vivien Meally
Des-Meisters-Lakaien Brothers of Tangra
30
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Posted - 2015.06.07 13:07:30 -
[1309] - Quote
Day 6 after this horrible icon patch. And the Icons are still bad. |
Tara Eves
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.06.07 14:08:14 -
[1310] - Quote
Vivien Meally wrote:Day 6 after this horrible icon patch. And the Icons are still bad.
I resisted the temptation to complain right off the bat - I too thought give it a few days, get used to it.
No they suck - the old icons were much, much simpler and in this case simpler was BETTER.
A square brackety box was a player, a cross was an NPC and that's all we needed - now I have to read the text on the overview before I can tell if the icon I am looking at is a player or not.
This idea is awful, it needs to be rolled back. |
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Lahnius
51
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Posted - 2015.06.07 14:38:34 -
[1311] - Quote
Terminus Antollare wrote:I like the new icons. There I said it
... nothing wrong with that ... lol ... some do like them, some dont ...
... i think that what most everyone would like to have the option to choose old or new icons ... or at the very least be able to ease into it somehow, or make small changes to the new idea ... |
teloded
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2015.06.07 14:51:15 -
[1312] - Quote
Vivien Meally wrote:Day 6 after this horrible icon patch. And the Icons are still bad.
My problem with the the Icon change it that it is now harder to tell the difference between players and NPC's. Also I would have to say if you want to change the icon by all means CCP you are the game creators but maybe next time make icons that are easier to learn. |
teloded
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2015.06.07 14:53:50 -
[1313] - Quote
Ida Aurlien wrote:teloded wrote:I would have to say that fozzy sov will most likely be game breaking for smaller corps and alliances. Large groups can now harrass smaller groups they would normally not target. Bring a bs or cruiser fleet start shutting down services, any hostile response can be crushed easily. once every thing is turned off go to the next system. the targeted corp will undock to turn back on their services only to have them turned back off in a hour. production goes down, income goes down. people more likely to move back to high sec where they dont have to worry about any of this. Only been under fozzy sov test for 2 days and people are all ready leaving null sec. Good job ccp
Do you really think they care
Well if CCP wants people out in Null sec they should care. They have changed a lot of things to make Null sec more appealing. but this takes all that back. People shoudl want to go out to Null for the open PVP, the profit and the PVE. fozzy sov will be the main reason people will not want to go into Null sec corps, unless its one of the bigger corps and alliances |
Ryan Richards
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.06.07 16:04:56 -
[1314] - Quote
As a casual observer to this thread over the last several days, and numerous hours of trying to adjust to the new Icons, I'd like CCP to add me to the HATE THE NEW ICON group. A lot of people have said it better than I could about what is wrong and what needs to be fixed. Personally, I would just prefer the old system.
Based on your refusal? to take into consideration the previous feedback provided to you about proposed changes Icons, one can only assume that you have told your player base, "Here's your crap sandwich, get used to it, and enjoy".
I have three paying accounts and I am seriously considering finding something else to do with my entertainment money! |
Black Ambulance
29
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Posted - 2015.06.07 16:15:20 -
[1315] - Quote
Ryan Richards wrote:As a casual observer to this thread over the last several days, and numerous hours of trying to adjust to the new Icons, I'd like CCP to add me to the HATE THE NEW ICON group. A lot of people have said it better than I could about what is wrong and what needs to be fixed. Personally, I would just prefer the old system.
Based on your refusal? to take into consideration the previous feedback provided to you about proposed changes Icons, one can only assume that you have told your player base, "Here's your crap sandwich, get used to it, and enjoy".
I have three paying accounts and I am seriously considering finding something else to do with my entertainment money!
Well said !! , Add me to the HATE THE NEW ICON group too.
But , I think nothing going to change as the previous feedback thread regarding the new icons filled up with disappointed feedbacks too and CCP completely ignored it. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
86
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Posted - 2015.06.07 16:59:18 -
[1316] - Quote
Black Ambulance wrote:But , I think nothing going to change as the previous feedback thread regarding the new icons filled up with disappointed feedbacks too and CCP completely ignored it.
A hypothetical day at the CCP office:
UI Designer 1: So... they didn't like any of the icon sets we proposed. Manager: We can't spend much more time on that, we need a decision. UI Designer 1: Shouldn't we shelve it for later? Manager: We put it on schedule, so we will deliver it. We need your team free to work on other things. UI Designer 2: Honestly, the feedback we got was way too one-dimensional, I don't think they're seeing the bigger picture. If we take every change into consideration, then we have to spend more time getting the rest together which hasn't been touched. Manager: Both of you are not helping, even though what both of you say has merit. Still, they're not UI developers, and you are. I can draw pixels in paint too, that doesn't mean they work as intended. UI Designer 1: I disagree, our playerbase bring up a lot of valid points, and their feedback and mockups are on the right track too. UI Designer 2: That doesn't matter, even if we decide to go that route, we can't use those mockups. UI Designer 1: What? CCP Lawyer: We can't use player created mockups as part of our client for legal reasons. UI Designer 1: You've got to be kidding me... UI Designer 2: Tough luck. I guess we have to ship this. Too many mockups and ideas are around, this does not leave us with much space to find something else in between and we're running out of time anyway. Manager: Indeed, all very problematic. Well... let's just ship it, and take the flak, maybe we can work something out during this sh!tstorm. UI Designer 2: Sounds about right. UI Designer 1: I'm NOT agreeing with this... there has to be a better way and we can't let the next thing happen like that again! Manager: I'm sorry, that is not your call to make. You can't see in the future how it will work out, forum population is just a small part of the playerbase. We will ship it, and see what happens to player count and subscription changes. There is no point speculating.
*... sometime in the future, a UI designer silently leaves the company.* |
Mark Yanning
Zeura Brotherhood Mordus Angels
27
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Posted - 2015.06.07 17:21:09 -
[1317] - Quote
Hello guys, please add me as well into the HATE THE NEW ICON group.
After several days of discussion and many (bad) feedbacks from pilots about new icons I really wanna make CCP only few easy questions.
-CCP, are you going to keep this new icons system?
-Is there any possibility we can choose to be back to the old system? (sigh)
-Are you aware of the hundreds/thousands complains about the new icons?
-Do you know that for many pilots now (especially the pvp ones), the gaming experience of Eve is a nightmare with the new icons?
-Can you please give customers/pilots/capsulers any sort of answer about future plan on icons?
Many thanks
Mark Yanning Ceo "Give us old icons or fix it please" |
Captain Nuf
Zeura Brotherhood Mordus Angels
2
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Posted - 2015.06.07 17:27:01 -
[1318] - Quote
I like the new icons. I understand that someone worked hard on them and that lots of people hates em. Just make them toggleable in General Settings or something. I see them as an improvement and I got used to them and appreciate them, but for #^$&'s sake, I need my CEO to undock and shoot stuff and he hates the icons. |
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
14
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Posted - 2015.06.07 18:46:30 -
[1319] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote: .......................... Manager: I'm sorry, that is not your call to make. You can't see in the future how it will work out, forum population is just a small part of the playerbase. We will ship it, and see what happens to player count and subscription changes. There is no point speculating. ........ [/i]
.... a very well done piece on the speculative discussions in the CCP dev teams
I want to stress especially the quoted part, about just ignoring those (always complaining) forum warriors, that always make the most noise but actually dont matter THAT much - cause its true in many cases
BUT NOT IN ALL
Just look at my personal case - I havent cared to post on the forums for almost 2 years..... how did this change lately?!
The simple reason is in some HORRIBLE DESIGN DECISIONS that question the way I like to play this game and the time I invested in it! (be it the unusable new map for scanning or this icon debacle)
Dear CCP, when people like me start posting in your forums you can safely assume that something is going horribly wrong ..... you have all the statistics, just take your time and check if its just me.
To add some constructive ideas: Perhaps it wasnt the brightest idea to accelerate the release schedule like you did (for quite some different reasons)
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Andy Lorentz
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.06.07 20:21:44 -
[1320] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I agree NPC distinction is rather nuanced with the new icon set - NPC icons have a faint inner fill compared to players ships.
It is far too subtle a distinction, particularly in Min/Amarr FW space with red/orange backgrounds and whether the icon is filled or not is not easy to see immediately. |
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