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Evelgrivion
Cohort. Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.11.17 21:38:00 -
[1]
Before the recent drake nerf, it was the darling of Kali. Inexpensive, incredibly powerful, and the best ship Caldari had gotten in years. However, with its current status, it is just another Ferox - one of the least useful ships in the game.
The Caldari have no ships that are good for fleet combat other than the Raven and the soon to be coming Rokh, and many people dont use Ravens because the missiles take too long to reach their targets in long range engagements.
The Caldari have no good small-man PVP ships other than the Caracal and the Raven, and the Caracal is ineffective due to its poor damage output capabilities thanks to that silly kinetic missile damage bonus - everyone and their brother tanks kinetic damage without breaking a sweat other than the minmatar.
What made the Drake special was the fact that it changed that situation. It had a rate of fire bonus, something that made it effective against any ship that crossed its path and the pilot was wise enough to kit for. With its seven launchers, it was also a worthwhile damage machine. Admittently though, it was far better than the other battlecruisers.
If the Drake still needs a nerf from its original status, fine; please drop the seventh launcher or drop the rate of fire bonus, but please dont drop both :(. Without one or the other, it is a worthless ship.
The Gallente are unhappy with the Myrmidon since it cant launch heavy drones and only has 5 useable high-slots for guns. Please, just give them their sixth turret highslot, make the Drake a useful ship like it was before, and restore the Hurricane a bit.
In my opinion, the Drake is just a travesty of a vessel with this nerf, and it was the thing that had me excited most after seeing how unlikely it was for the average player to have any shot at tech II invention.
CCP, please stop giving in to the Gallente complaining characters... remember the thread about that Wired article? Every one who complained abut the drake fills the power monger - as things stand, the Thorax does more damage per second than the Drake, and is the ultimate PVP ship in low sec space.
I know this turned into a massive rant, and for that I apologize. However, I do feel its somewhat justified - youre taking all the fun out of being Caldari
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Its Cohort. with a C. |
TomParad0x
Caldari adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.17 21:57:00 -
[2]
I agree, the drake needs to be fixed now. The launcher slot removed is fine, but put the RoF bonus back, because the 5% kin damage bonus is utter crap.
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Ed Gein
Dark Blade Incorporated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:00:00 -
[3]
Ironic, to me the problem is that it is just a bigger badder ferox. What they need to do is bring back the rof, and drop the shield res bonus so there is a real difference between it and the ferox.
-------------------------------------------------------------- What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:13:00 -
[4]
6 Launchers
ROF + Shield Resist
-or-
ROF + Kinetic Missile Damage
That would be acceptable..
Give us a solid DPS/tank ship or a ship that is more DPS oriented.. seriously give us something to fly other than the Raven CCP.
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:13:00 -
[5]
I think it's amusing that you say the Caldari have no good fleet ship except the Rokh. Umm, hello, McFly? How many good fleet ships does each race have, exactly?
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Evelgrivion
Cohort. Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:26:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 17/11/2006 22:31:53
Originally by: Risien Drogonne I think it's amusing that you say the Caldari have no good fleet ship except the Rokh. Umm, hello, McFly? How many good fleet ships does each race have, exactly?
Gallente: Megathron, and Dominix in smaller or extended engagements. Minmatar: Tempest, Typhoon, and Maelstrom (due to flexibility and range capabilities across the board...) Amarr: Apocalypse, Abaddon (possibly), Armageddon, all due to ranges.
So tell me, where are the other good caldari fleet ships? The Scorpion is just Primary so it rarely fulfills its purpose, the Raven's missile blobbing is jumped out from in smaller engagements, and the Rokh is the only ship whos guns actually instantly hit its target.
More importantly though, whats the good PVP ships, sticking within the realms of Tech 1? Minmtar: Rifter, Typhoon, and as things stand, AutoCannon Hurricane Amarr: Punisher, Prophecy, geddon... Anything else? Gallente: Vexor, Thorax, Dominix, Possibly the Myrmidon, Megathron Caldari: Umm. Kestrel perhaps? The Raven is the only real PVP ship that stands a fair chance against some of the ships from all sides.
:Edited for the fact the geddon is a good PVP ship still.
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Its Cohort. with a C. |
Ed Gein
Dark Blade Incorporated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:29:00 -
[7]
Umm until the stacking nerf, the geddon was the number 1 pvp battleship. I would hardly say its worthless now.
-------------------------------------------------------------- What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Risien Drogonne I think it's amusing that you say the Caldari have no good fleet ship except the Rokh. Umm, hello, McFly? How many good fleet ships does each race have, exactly?
Gallente: Megathron, and Dominix in smaller or extended engagements. Minmatar: Tempest, Typhoon, and Maelstrom (due to flexibility and range capabilities across the board...) Amarr: Apocalypse, Abaddon (possibly), Armageddon, all due to ranges.
So tell me, where are the other good caldari fleet ships? The Scorpion is just Primary so it rarely fulfills its purpose, the Raven's missile blobbing is jumped out from in smaller engagements, and the Rokh is the only ship whos guns actually instantly hit its target.
Heh, all 3 Caldari battleships are amazing in any situations the ships you listed above are good. If the Dominix and Typhoon are good in an engagement, so are the Raven and Scorpion. As for being called primary, golly gee life is hard. You have a battleship so good it's considered the most dangerous in EVE and gets shot first. Life is rough.
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Evelgrivion
Cohort. Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:35:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 17/11/2006 22:36:16
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Risien Drogonne I think it's amusing that you say the Caldari have no good fleet ship except the Rokh. Umm, hello, McFly? How many good fleet ships does each race have, exactly?
Gallente: Megathron, and Dominix in smaller or extended engagements. Minmatar: Tempest, Typhoon, and Maelstrom (due to flexibility and range capabilities across the board...) Amarr: Apocalypse, Abaddon (possibly), Armageddon, all due to ranges.
So tell me, where are the other good caldari fleet ships? The Scorpion is just Primary so it rarely fulfills its purpose, the Raven's missile blobbing is jumped out from in smaller engagements, and the Rokh is the only ship whos guns actually instantly hit its target.
Heh, all 3 Caldari battleships are amazing in any situations the ships you listed above are good. If the Dominix and Typhoon are good in an engagement, so are the Raven and Scorpion. As for being called primary, golly gee life is hard. You have a battleship so good it's considered the most dangerous in EVE and gets shot first. Life is rough.
We're getting off topic. The Drake still has a niche to fill that it cant fill with the nerf its been given.
I still disagree with your position to a fair degree, but I know arguing isnt going to change your or my opinions on the matter.
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Its Cohort. with a C. |
Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
We're getting off topic. The Drake still has a niche to fill that it cant fill with the nerf its been given.
What niche would that be?
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Evelgrivion
Cohort. Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Evelgrivion
We're getting off topic. The Drake still has a niche to fill that it cant fill with the nerf its been given.
What niche would that be?
The gap between the Caracal and the Raven in PVP capabilities. At this point it damages about as good as a Ferox but tanks a little better. With the HP bonuses that the ships are getting, the extra damage capabilties in the Drake are crucial to useability.
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Its Cohort. with a C. |
Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Evelgrivion
We're getting off topic. The Drake still has a niche to fill that it cant fill with the nerf its been given.
What niche would that be?
The gap between the Caracal and the Raven in PVP capabilities. At this point it damages about as good as a Ferox but tanks a little better. With the HP bonuses that the ships are getting, the extra damage capabilties in the Drake are crucial to useability.
No, it's niche is as a MISSILE ship between the caracal and the raven. With over twice the shields of the caracal and enough grid to fit 6 heavy assault launchers with a killer tank, it fits that niche perfectly.
The ferox is a railboat, despite what you nincom**** caldari players have been doing with it.
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Evelgrivion
Cohort. Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Evelgrivion
We're getting off topic. The Drake still has a niche to fill that it cant fill with the nerf its been given.
What niche would that be?
The gap between the Caracal and the Raven in PVP capabilities. At this point it damages about as good as a Ferox but tanks a little better. With the HP bonuses that the ships are getting, the extra damage capabilties in the Drake are crucial to useability.
No, it's niche is as a MISSILE ship between the caracal and the raven. With over twice the shields of the caracal and enough grid to fit 6 heavy assault launchers with a killer tank, it fits that niche perfectly.
The ferox is a railboat, despite what you nincom**** caldari players have been doing with it.
Lets not start mudslinging. I dont want the tank. I want the damage, and I think most caldari players will vouch for that position.
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Its Cohort. with a C. |
Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Lets not start mudslinging. I dont want the tank. I want the damage, and I think most caldari players will vouch for that position.
So put in ballistic control systems and 2 railguns.
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Evelgrivion
Cohort. Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.11.17 22:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Lets not start mudslinging. I dont want the tank. I want the damage, and I think most caldari players will vouch for that position.
So put in ballistic control systems and 2 railguns.
I'll see how that goes on the test server but I dont see it working well.
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Its Cohort. with a C. |
Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 23:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Lets not start mudslinging. I dont want the tank. I want the damage, and I think most caldari players will vouch for that position.
So put in ballistic control systems and 2 railguns.
I'll see how that goes on the test server but I dont see it working well.
Worked well for me.
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Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.11.17 23:11:00 -
[17]
I'd love to stick on a pair of med rails and bcus, except...
oh wait, out of grid! Or, out of lowslots since they're all filled with RCU/PDS units!
With the hi slots fully populated, there is virtually no room for a shield extender. So to say that it has a better thank than the ferox is a bit of a misnomer; it does if you leave the two leftover hislots empty.
----------------------------------------------- Vice Adm Vladimir Tinakin Logistics CO Hadean Drive Yards |
Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 23:14:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 17/11/2006 23:14:39
Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin I'd love to stick on a pair of med rails and bcus, except...
oh wait, out of grid! Or, out of lowslots since they're all filled with RCU/PDS units!
With the hi slots fully populated, there is virtually no room for a shield extender. So to say that it has a better thank than the ferox is a bit of a misnomer; it does if you leave the two leftover hislots empty.
You people make me shake my head in disbelief. Try using your rig slots for more grid or missile damage, opening up lows for other stuff if you have to. Rig slots aren't just for DPS mods, you know. Or hey... I know! You could get your fitting skills up.
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Flabida jaba
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Posted - 2006.11.17 23:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
You people make me shake my head in disbelief. Try using your rig slots for more grid or missile damage, opening up lows for other stuff if you have to. Rig slots aren't just for DPS mods, you know. Or hey... I know! You could get your fitting skills up.
Ah..heres your problem
you refuse to see anyone elses opinion as valid
you openly falme anyone just for being caldari and then you fly around caldari ships on SiSi apprently so you can post on the forums about how OMGWTFBBQ they are and that we are all noobs who should use all our rig slot for fitting mods aswell just so we can have a decent ship
your so biased its not funney
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Evelgrivion
Cohort. Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.11.17 23:25:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 17/11/2006 23:26:20
Originally by: Risien Drogonne Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 17/11/2006 23:14:39
Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin I'd love to stick on a pair of med rails and bcus, except...
oh wait, out of grid! Or, out of lowslots since they're all filled with RCU/PDS units!
With the hi slots fully populated, there is virtually no room for a shield extender. So to say that it has a better thank than the ferox is a bit of a misnomer; it does if you leave the two leftover hislots empty.
You people make me shake my head in disbelief. Try using your rig slots for more grid or missile damage, opening up lows for other stuff if you have to. Rig slots aren't just for DPS mods, you know. Or hey... I know! You could get your fitting skills up.
The issue I see here is the fact that youre spending your rigging capabilities to make your ship competent. Ships that dont have the inherent inadequacy of what youre trying to do with them will have an inherent offensive or defensive bonus whereas other vessels are running to catch up.
Flabba, stop throwing mud and dirt. Argue against Risien's points - dont argue against the person. It doesnt help you and it enforces the caldari stupidity stereotype.
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Its Cohort. with a C. |
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 23:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Flabida jaba
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
You people make me shake my head in disbelief. Try using your rig slots for more grid or missile damage, opening up lows for other stuff if you have to. Rig slots aren't just for DPS mods, you know. Or hey... I know! You could get your fitting skills up.
Ah..heres your problem
you refuse to see anyone elses opinion as valid
What else am I supposed to think when the arguments leveled against me are "I don't have enough skills to fit the ship" and "I can't be bothered to use the rig slots" and "I can't be seen flying around without 4 large shield extenders!"
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium Kurai Komichi
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Posted - 2006.11.17 23:31:00 -
[22]
Since all ships are obviously considered with the "end-game" in mind: What is the DPS of the Drake with T2 Drones, T2 heavy assault launchers loaded with the short range "damage" dealing t2 missiles?
I'm surprised I haven't seen any DPS graphs yet comparing DPS between Drake, Ferox, Brutix, Hurricane, Prophecy, Harbringer, etc.
I want to see how little damage the Drake supposedly does in comparison to the other ships in EVE loaded with their T2 weapons. Remember - just the DPS...tanking is a whole diff topic. ---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 23:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Evelgrivion The issue I see here is the fact that youre spending your rigging capabilities to make your ship competent. Ships that dont have the inherent inadequacy of what youre trying to do with them will have an inherent offensive or defensive bonus whereas other vessels are running to catch up.
But that's what rig slots are FOR. Every ship has deficiencies somewhere. I used tracking rigs on my hyperion. I used rocket flight time and velocity rigs on my crow (got that sucker to hit at 22km). I used cap recharge rigs on my thorax and deimos. I used armor rep bonus rigs on my megathron. On the drake I used shield extender rigs so I can free up my mids for tackling gear.
Do you see a pattern there? I'm using rigs to make up for holes in every ship I fly, and it's scary effective.
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Evelgrivion
Cohort. Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.11.17 23:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Evelgrivion The issue I see here is the fact that youre spending your rigging capabilities to make your ship competent. Ships that dont have the inherent inadequacy of what youre trying to do with them will have an inherent offensive or defensive bonus whereas other vessels are running to catch up.
But that's what rig slots are FOR. Every ship has deficiencies somewhere. I used tracking rigs on my hyperion. I used rocket flight time and velocity rigs on my crow (got that sucker to hit at 22km). I used cap recharge rigs on my thorax and deimos. I used armor rep bonus rigs on my megathron. On the drake I used shield extender rigs so I can free up my mids for tackling gear.
Do you see a pattern there? I'm using rigs to make up for holes in every ship I fly, and it's scary effective.
Well, lets look at this from the perspective of the much-despised (and much loved amongst its enthusiasts) Thorax. What does it stand to gain from riggings? You can afford to boost its speed, maneuverability, and damage, to create an even more excellent PVP vessel.
You get more bang for your buck catering to a vessels natural strength than compensating for its weaknesses in a vessel that doesnt have severe natural downsides.
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Its Cohort. with a C. |
Tharim
Minmatar Code-Blue
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Posted - 2006.11.17 23:44:00 -
[25]
Hmm, extra medslot on Typhoon..woot!
www.eve-files.com/media/0602/CCP_tharim.gif[/IMG]
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes |
Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.11.18 01:02:00 -
[26]
My character is an industrialist primary. However, I fly a ferox currently, and have decent skills inasmuch as powergrid/shield fitting goes. I can fit some T2 mods, but not all.
Additionally, from the looks of things rigs are going to be very hard to craft from the low drop rate wrecks currently yield.
So what you're saying is, unless you have uber can-use-all-T2 skills and have the 10s of millions of isk to drop on rigs (Would surprise me if the more useful ones weren't below 100M unless the drop rate increases) then the ship is useless to me.
Well, as it stands, I won't argue with that logic. Since it's true, at the moment. The ship isn't worth the extra 20M it'll cost to buy/build.
I'm going to withold comment for another day or so to see if the uproar results in a rollback of the nerf, or at least a partial one.
But just as an aside: This is a T1 Battlecruiser. Not a T2 Commandship. You shouln't have to have 10M SP just to sit in the thing and fill all the slots with a module.
----------------------------------------------- Vice Adm Vladimir Tinakin Logistics CO Hadean Drive Yards |
Lord C'tan
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Posted - 2006.11.18 01:04:00 -
[27]
Well i can safly say that Tux has just wasted 4 weeks of my training time in the matter of seconds. Being Amarr i took the hard decided to train up to fly this power house of a ship and having no skills in shields and missiles i had to train everything up from lvl 1. 4 weeks on and i'm about to finish the last of my skill needed to fly shield tanks and missile boats to 4 and then this happens.
So not only has it been a complete waste of my time that i could have been using to train up better inty skills, its made me really think about stop playing a game where i have wasted 4 weeks of my time because Gall forums whining trolls have a ship that could possably out damage them in a fight.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes |
ragewind
Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.18 01:50:00 -
[28]
the drake felt right it work it was a sweet ship was it over powered NO.
waits for flamage to be all the other BC are underpowered the ferox is just a joke and comand ships are also rated poorly for there damage so why not posibly give a slight, and yes that was slight nerf to the dread from its original form and fix the others so they are better than there lower ranked cruser counterparts.
moa 4 guns - ferox 5 guns car 5 launchers - drake 7 was a good mix the others need bosting ferox needs 6 then they other races proberly need similar adjustments
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