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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.20 10:17:00 -
[1]
I'm actually quite interest in the notion of changing the Ferox- now the Caldari are getting a missile BC, I think the Ferox should be retro-fitted into a more solid gun-boat.
I'm typing this *new* thread because the last Ferox suggestion thread degenerated into one big *****-fest. As such, no one is, in this thread, allowed to ***** about Tux, ***** about the Drake and its much argued about nerf / not nerf ***** about the Hurricane Rokh, Myrmidon, or anything else about the world you wish were different. There are already hundreds of threads for that, if you want to indulge.
My suggestions pretty simple really- firstly, take its Turret Hardpoints to 7 (matching the brutix), while reducing its Launcher Hardpoints to 2 (just on their for token flexibility, Caldari being missile fanatics. Secondly, boost its PG by 100, making it only 50 less than the Brutix, instead of 150 less.
My less strong suggestion (less sure about this one) would be to ditch its resistance bonus in favour of a second turret bonus- tracking.
It'll still be out-damaged by the Brutix, but I think its meant to (Brutix being the blaster master), but its 50% range bonus, combined with a full rack of rails, should make it the king sniper (mini-rokh, if you will).
The bonus change is to accomodate its new role- if its a sniper, tanking bonuses are less useful to it (seeing a its ability to out-range should be its main defence). The tracking bonus would put it solidly in the utilitarian gun-ship role, to make up for its lack of DPS (compared to the Brutix)- in other words, the fact it'll be far more capable of hitting smaller targets would give it a second solid PvP role, as well as sniper. It would also, by merit of increasing perfects' and wreckings', help give them (indirectly) a damage bonus. Further, turret accuracy feels somewhat inline with the racial trait of range- they're both utilitarian bonuses, rather than tank 'n gank bonuses.
The reason I'm less certain of that change is because the Ferox is supposed to be the tanker / low-dps one of the two BCs, so it'd be a bit wrong giving it a damage bonus and stopping it tanking (also reducing the options available to Caldari pilots, by removing their tanking BC option). Contrast with the Brutix, which is supposed to be the ganker of Gallente's two BCs, with Myrmidon recieving the inferior damage and the tank bonus. -----------------------------------------------
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Asariasha
Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.20 10:49:00 -
[2]
Agree
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Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2006.11.20 11:01:00 -
[3]
The Ferox is a gunboat, yes...
7 turrets is too much - 6 turrets and 3 launchers will be fine... Remember it's geared towards having gang bonus eqipment and towards tanking.
A bit more Powergrid and a bit less cpu would be great to persuade people fitting guns instead...
Ferox isn't too bad today, but only because it is capable of fitting missiles and a big passive tank, and that's a shame...
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Sorja
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.20 13:23:00 -
[4]
That would be cool.
Since we are on our way towards more differences between rails and missiles ships, something definately needs to be done about the Merlin/Moa/Ferox/Eagle. ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the backpipe, but how does not. |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.20 14:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark The Ferox is a gunboat, yes...
7 turrets is too much - 6 turrets and 3 launchers will be fine... Remember it's geared towards having gang bonus eqipment and towards tanking.
A bit more Powergrid and a bit less cpu would be great to persuade people fitting guns instead...
Ferox isn't too bad today, but only because it is capable of fitting missiles and a big passive tank, and that's a shame...
I think I'd aggree, actually. 6 and 3 is probably a better layout for Caldari- big Gun Boat, but still requiring missile power (as all good Caldari ships should). -----------------------------------------------
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Kodiak31415
Imperial Space Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.20 15:47:00 -
[6]
As much as I don't like it when others do this :
/Signed
Ferox dosen't cut it as a rail boat, the weak PG and only 5 turret slots make for a rather pathetic rail platform. As for that matter the moa and the merlin have the same issue where they're gimped due to a lack of turret slots. Tux please take a look at changing this so these ships get flown more often. You don't have to make them wtfuberbbqpwnage just make it so caldari people with rail skills have some decent mid level ships to play with. |
voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:01:00 -
[7]
yeb make it a mini rokh - the shield resistnace bonus is still good IMHO
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Mirasta
Caldari Enigma Enterprises Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:04:00 -
[8]
I would love a ferox boost, The concept of a crursier sniper is a great concept but i would say its poorley implimented int he freox. As said before the BC thats ment to be close range fills this sniper role better than the supposed sniper.
Of couse, You are now reading my sig. |
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:51:00 -
[9]
I wouldn't even go that far.
Convert one missile hardpoint to a turret one. Overall DPS is reduced admittedly, but it stops people whining that the Ferox is then better than the brutix.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Spiltblood
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Posted - 2006.11.23 00:51:00 -
[10]
As before on the other ferox threads I went to..
/sign!!! But I'm even all for removing the launcher slots completely...or least remove the ability to use missiles in genreal leaving hte slots for nos or what ever. Leave the current bonuses as they are. SOunds like the weakest part of the ferox might get a boost soon, refering to the 20% agility. All the ferox would need now is the extra rail. I love the ferox in it's current state but it's hard not to see it's value with 6 rails versus 5. So please....give the ferox one more rail, 100pg, lose the missile launchers and keep bonuses as they are.
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Mortimer Zorg
Caldari Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.23 01:23:00 -
[11]
6/3 sounds good abit more grid and more targeting range what it now has is pitifull for rail ship it. mayby 65-70 using rails as main weapons needs extra range, as its now you can lock and start fireing 54k optimal range with lead +15 fall off so lock and fire away :)
Mid range sucks unless you have huginn on your side
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Sorja
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.23 01:34:00 -
[12]
It was said that adding turret hardpoints on a ship is difficult because the model needs to be changed.
I hope this won't prevent the Merlin/Moa/Eagle/Ferox to get the added turret hardpoint they need.
Yes, I wrote 'need'. Change if for 'deserve' if you feel like it. ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not. |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.23 03:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: FireFoxx80 I wouldn't even go that far.
Convert one missile hardpoint to a turret one. Overall DPS is reduced admittedly, but it stops people whining that the Ferox is then better than the brutix.
When have you ever seen someone make such an insane comment? The Ferox might be better for hitting at extreme ranges, or passive tanking level 3 missions, but overall a brutix smokes a ferox.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Xaildaine
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Posted - 2006.11.23 04:38:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Xaildaine on 23/11/2006 04:40:29 With all the talk surounding the New BCs and looking at the old ones, it quickly becomes clear that the Ferox badly needs a Face lift
The fact is that the Drake now fills the Ferox's old default place of a Mission missile boat. As such it needs work to bring it up to par with other races Turret ships.
I favor an extra turret point and 100 pg in exchange for a few Launcher points.
I fail to see how a boat with more turret points and a dammage or RoF bonus can be conciderd balanced compared to the boat with very few turrets and a questionable ability to take advantage of its only turret bonus.. that of range.
It would be nice to see the Bonus to range changed to somthing more usefull like a ROF or tracking but i suppose that range is the caldari thing with rails.
Another thing id like is the resist bonus changed to a seccond turret bonus. That gives it the "Gank + no tank" thing that lacks in the Caldari rail boat line.
The extra turret is Badly needed Its a problem that starts right back at the Merlin... which is an ok ship but hardly a good Rail platform. Its a problem most strikingly noticeable in the MoA .. the dead duck of turret boats. Its a Problem continues in the Ferox but strangely avoided by the Rohk.
There is another Problem that is only felt by Caldari turret boats. And thats the insane amount of Mass that Caldari rail boats have. This is a left over Nerf from times gone by to fix a problem that nolonger exists with missiles. Yet it kills almost all Caldari turret boats.
To much mass by far. low agility.. no acceleration.. low top speed.. slow to warp .. limited warp distance.. and poor return from active speed mods.
but this is getting far beyond the scope of this thread.
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Aphotic Raven
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Posted - 2006.11.23 05:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Patch86 I'm actually quite interest in the notion of changing the Ferox- now the Caldari are getting a missile BC, I think the Ferox should be retro-fitted into a more solid gun-boat.
I'm typing this *new* thread because the last Ferox suggestion thread degenerated into one big *****-fest. As such, no one is, in this thread, allowed to ***** about Tux, ***** about the Drake and its much argued about nerf / not nerf ***** about the Hurricane Rokh, Myrmidon, or anything else about the world you wish were different. There are already hundreds of threads for that, if you want to indulge.
My suggestions pretty simple really- firstly, take its Turret Hardpoints to 7 (matching the brutix), while reducing its Launcher Hardpoints to 2 (just on their for token flexibility, Caldari being missile fanatics. Secondly, boost its PG by 100, making it only 50 less than the Brutix, instead of 150 less.
My less strong suggestion (less sure about this one) would be to ditch its resistance bonus in favour of a second turret bonus- tracking.
It'll still be out-damaged by the Brutix, but I think its meant to (Brutix being the blaster master), but its 50% range bonus, combined with a full rack of rails, should make it the king sniper (mini-rokh, if you will).
The bonus change is to accomodate its new role- if its a sniper, tanking bonuses are less useful to it (seeing a its ability to out-range should be its main defence). The tracking bonus would put it solidly in the utilitarian gun-ship role, to make up for its lack of DPS (compared to the Brutix)- in other words, the fact it'll be far more capable of hitting smaller targets would give it a second solid PvP role, as well as sniper. It would also, by merit of increasing perfects' and wreckings', help give them (indirectly) a damage bonus. Further, turret accuracy feels somewhat inline with the racial trait of range- they're both utilitarian bonuses, rather than tank 'n gank bonuses.
The reason I'm less certain of that change is because the Ferox is supposed to be the tanker / low-dps one of the two BCs, so it'd be a bit wrong giving it a damage bonus and stopping it tanking (also reducing the options available to Caldari pilots, by removing their tanking BC option). Contrast with the Brutix, which is supposed to be the ganker of Gallente's two BCs, with Myrmidon recieving the inferior damage and the tank bonus.
I agree with all of this, the ferox is a good ship but has crap damage because it is used for missles, its DPS would not (and should not.. blasters > rails) match brutix but could be much better in a proper med rail configuration, something that seems very lacking at present.
The only real worry i have is active tanking feroxes, this would free up some low slots for nasty gun damage mods and still have a good tank, the brutix kills its own tank severly for every damage mod lowslot it mounts.
Still, this is a step in the right direction Patch =)
I dont think a tracking bonus would be that neccesary... those 2 launcher slots would make it hard to kill for an AF or inty (where as its impossible now) so it might not need too much in way of tracking, i think long range damage with rails is a cool direction for ferox to go.
Kudos for supporting this idea
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Aphotic Raven
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Posted - 2006.11.23 05:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sorja It was said that adding turret hardpoints on a ship is difficult because the model needs to be changed.
I hope this won't prevent the Merlin/Moa/Eagle/Ferox to get the added turret hardpoint they need.
Yes, I wrote 'need'. Change if for 'deserve' if you feel like it.
merlin/moa/eagle do not need a boost... they're fine. tank not gank. the opposite of their missle counterparts. (eagle isnt generally very tank... but screw sniper cruisers)
And the model issue wont hurt the ferox, check out some guristas BCs, they can mount a lot of guns and not look stupid =)
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.11.23 05:58:00 -
[17]
While I agree that the tech I caldari gunboats all need an extra turret slot, plus the pg to fit it. I disagree with them losing the resist bonus. It is VERY usfull on them. To reach there potential, they all need to sacrifice a lot of mids for sensor boosters and tracking comps. That means that unlike armor tanking boats, they have very little in the way of tank. That capless invuln field,along with a damage control unit has saved my but many times.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.23 10:49:00 -
[18]
As far as the model issue is concerned- remember that we're getting a new (2 new, as it hapens) graphics engines in the near future which all require reesigned models. If changes need to be made, nows the ideal time for it, really....... -----------------------------------------------
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Slevin Kalebra
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Posted - 2006.11.23 11:57:00 -
[19]
Another turret (and the extra grid required to fit another T2 250mm) would be great. 2 more would be even better, but highly unlikely. Reducing the number of launcher slots needs to be done so people will use the ferox as it was intended (rather than as a 'cheap' Drake).
I don't agree with changing the shield resist bonus for a tracking bonus though. If you're using it as a sniper then fit tracking computers in the mids - that'll give you tracking and more range, rather than just fitting a (cap hungry) invul shield to compensate for the loss of resists.
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Doxs Roxs
White Wolves Defence league The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:34:00 -
[20]
Personally I would think that it could be given 7 turret hardpoints without being overpowered. The lack of a dmg bonus ensures that it still has a fairly low dps compared to close range ships. If the grid is balanced so that you cannot fit both tank and gank I think it will be good.
I do think that it should keep the 25% resist bonus since it seems to be something of a tradition on Caldari railboats.
I also have to say that I think both the Merlin and the Moa suffers immensely from the split weapons systems and huge mass. Even more then the Ferox since they need the speed/agility.
Regards
/Doxs After 9 months, why is my face just a '!' ? |
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Slevin Kalebra
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:51:00 -
[21]
Ooh looks like Tux seems to be in agreement that the Ferox needs another turret here... And there was much rejoicing
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Xaildaine
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Posted - 2006.11.23 20:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Audri Fisher While I agree that the tech I caldari gunboats all need an extra turret slot, plus the pg to fit it. I disagree with them losing the resist bonus. It is VERY usfull on them. To reach there potential, they all need to sacrifice a lot of mids for sensor boosters and tracking comps. That means that unlike armor tanking boats, they have very little in the way of tank. That capless invuln field,along with a damage control unit has saved my but many times.
Very good point. Midslot tanking and Turrets arnt the best mix and your right .. it dose need the resist bonus
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