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Cyborg Girl86
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:13:33 -
[1] - Quote
Hello everyone!
Yes I know this is probably a topic that has been beaten to death, but I've done a lot of research on it from other sources and have played a ton of different MMO's and I would just like to make the argument for Walking in Stations and how it could be of benefit to the game. If anyone has any objections feel free to post them, this is a discussion and I'm well aware other people won't share my point of view.
Without rambling on here goes: 1. Creation of content through different forms of player interaction. This one's pretty obvious. By letting capsuleers roam around in the station they're docked at and interact face-to-face with others opens up an entire can of worms and endless possibilities. Here's a hypothetical situation: You just docked up in an NPC station after an exciting roam in LS and decide to unwind. You step out of your CQ and walk through the hallways, witnessing other players making small talk or trading with each other in the hallway. You arrive at the local pub/bar/nightclub and order a drink for a few ISK, then sit down at a table watching The Scope from a nearby hanging holopanel. A player who happens to be bored sits down at your table and challenges you to a minigame that you can actually play installed in the table itself for either money (i.e. gambling) or for fun. He beats you, takes some of your ISK and tells you "good game". After that you relax watching the ships belonging to other players undocking and flying close to the station through the window beside you) This is just an example scenario, but if WiS was ever implemented the sheer amount of new and fun minigames, content and ways to interact with new people you've never met would add a whole new sense of immersion to the game, which brings me to my next point...
2. An All new level of immersion Being able to walk around and interact with New Eden with your toon would enable the Devs to inject and implement a ton of material from the EVE Lore into the game. I absolutely love the lore behind this game. Its so rich, vast and detailed. I think I read just about all of the EVE Chronicles. And yet there's a level of disconnect from the game itself. Imagine being in an NPC station and seeing Amarrian NPC scholars or priests walking down the halls, Gallente exotic dancers trying to entice you, Minmatar tribesman telling each other myths or Caladari business moguls arguing over how to run their corp. Being able to interact with NPCs like these (which serve to enrich the atmosphere a la Skyrim) and have them explain little tidbits about the empires or other facets of the game's rich sci-fi environment would really immerse those who are more inclined towards the RPing side of things. And yes, even though the NPCs may say the same things over and over again would get repetitive, but for new subs the new players could learn a lot about the history and stories behind New Eden.
3. New ways to manage Corps/Alliances Imagine the sheer possibilities for corps and alliances WiS would bring. You corp office in station could have strategic planners, market share information on giant holopanels or terminals your toon could walk up to and manage the corp from. It would also provide a place where toons and friends from the same corp could gather together and hang out in a lounge or something, do minigames or simply stand around AFK surrounded by friends and wingmen.
These are just some of the ideas I came up with off the top of my head. If anyone wants to add more or make your arguments against WiS please feel free. |
Dominique Vasilkovsky
BFG Tech
258
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:17:05 -
[2] - Quote
It's dead Jim, CCP tried and failed miserably.
Dominique Vasilkovsky EVEboard
Once known as:
Mashie Saldana sold - Anastasia Rigel sold - Monica Foulkes sold
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Jonni Favorite
Red Slice Enterprise
181
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:22:17 -
[3] - Quote
Hah this should go well! |
Lena Lazair
Khanid Irregulars Khanid's Legion
494
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:23:45 -
[4] - Quote
Cyborg Girl86 wrote:Hello everyone!
Yes I know this is probably a topic that has been beaten to death, but I've done a lot of research on it from other sources and have played a ton of different MMO's and I would just like to make the argument for Walking in Stations and how it could be of benefit to the game. If anyone has any objections feel free to post them, this is a discussion and I'm well aware other people won't share my point of view.
I don't think anyone but the harshest of trolls would make any real claim that WiS couldn't be an awesome addition to EVE.
The problem is that CCP does not have infinite budget and developer resources, so it's not really a question of how interesting WIS would be on its own merits. It's a question of priorities, and how much WiS couild add to the EVE experience for the cost vs all the other space-shippy-things CCP could be spending their time doing.
And put in context and taken out of the vacuum, it becomes evident that a huge portion of the player-base would rather see CCP focusing their limited resource pool on improving the core game that includes spaceships as I think most people feel it's a better experience/cost return.
The real missed opportunity, I think, is that while CCP apparently had money and devs to burn on WoD and Dust415, they COULD have instead burned those resources on a WiS addon/module/whatever for EVE, but didn't. I can't imagine they would have gone through the money any faster, and couldn't possibly be in a worse place for it than they are now. Too late for that now though... |
Lupe Meza
Hedion University Amarr Empire
134
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:24:09 -
[5] - Quote
I think it would work at cross purposes of the strength of the game, the spaceships. We should encourage players to leave stations and go into space, not promote spending hours in stations.
I mean it already happens as an avoidance technique as it is the one "safe" area in the game; but now it would be practically incentivized.
Now if I could smuggle guns in there and have dust style shoot outs until security ejects me I'd be on board. Shoot the player, clear the isk on the gaming table and make a run for my ship. Or have a station alert put out an APB and bounty out for such a player. You get capped in station you lose any implants and isk on hand. But already it's a different game, more GTA Online than EVE.
It is hard enough to execute a game when you have concrete focus and vision on what you want to be, cobbled on side features that add very little to that central vision are probably a bad idea. Fix space first before you worry about a whole new layer of Meta.
At the end of the day though I think it honestly would detract from more content creation than it would bring to the table. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9987
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:43:26 -
[6] - Quote
*Pinches nose*
=]|[=
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
542
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:16:11 -
[7] - Quote
It's very humbling and heartwarming to see a WiS thread on GD again. Here's to hoping It may prosper and many good features may be discussed and added when CCP finally releases the long due and praised by the big majority of EVE community important feature Walk In Station that will allow us to see face of enemy when docked in station.
CyberChaosCrewTV
Banned from forums
You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1661
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:20:21 -
[8] - Quote
Cyborg Girl86 wrote:... If anyone has any objections feel free to post them, ... The current direction of making everything lifeless and dull, default ship skins, Neocom, et cetera. I would rather WiS creation is postponed until the development direction changes.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Ripblade Falconpunch
Centurion Logistics
165
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:21:03 -
[9] - Quote
Cyborg Girl86 wrote:Blah blah blah.....
Second Life is that way --------->
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6686
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:23:17 -
[10] - Quote
Such hopes and dreams as it were.
But the spergian people of "muh ISK/stats" won that war. Now go die in a bubble camp or something and pretend it's "immersive".
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1187
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:24:21 -
[11] - Quote
I think at some point it needs to happen. But having never done game development, or knowing CCP's structure I have no idea how feasible it is for them to even try to do it. Seems like spending a lot of time QAing art assets.
then again pretty much every game seems to have walking around as a feature so it can't be that hard can it?
@ChainsawPlankto
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DrSmegma
Smegma United
291
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:25:21 -
[12] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:I don't think anyone but the harshest of trolls would make any real claim that WiS couldn't be an awesome addition to EVE. The trolls are right though. Nobody plays Eve because of the stations. People who like to walk around and customize their character won't play Eve just because of WiS. It's pointless.
Eve too complicated? Try Astrum Regatta.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11313
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:38:55 -
[13] - Quote
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:It's dead Jim, CCP tried and failed miserably.
This.
Some people are so unrealistically hopeful and utopian that no amount of failure ever dissuades them from something they think they want. Literally everything CCP has done that involved some form of walking has either failed (Incarna, WoD), been disappointing at best (DUST, even if it's true that it is profitable) or been a myth that's probably been discontinued with little fanfare (Legion, EVA exploration).
What has worked? Spaceships. Period.
The WiS crowd's solution to the above history of Walking around stuff from CCP? Pour even more money and time down the same drain that's failed to produce much for 12 years. Seriously, WTF guys? |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1188
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Posted - 2015.06.10 00:05:18 -
[14] - Quote
DrSmegma wrote:Lena Lazair wrote:I don't think anyone but the harshest of trolls would make any real claim that WiS couldn't be an awesome addition to EVE. The trolls are right though. Nobody plays Eve because of the stations. People who like to walk around and customize their character won't play Eve just because of WiS. It's pointless.
Given there isn't really any in station content currently that isn't much of a leap to make. Look at what unique items go for, I'd say there is a lot of room for vanity in eve. Add in something like Casinos, and I think WiS will be a lot more successful than people think. There are some who like the in space stuff, but want the in character stuff too.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9990
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Posted - 2015.06.10 00:22:13 -
[15] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:DrSmegma wrote:Lena Lazair wrote:I don't think anyone but the harshest of trolls would make any real claim that WiS couldn't be an awesome addition to EVE. The trolls are right though. Nobody plays Eve because of the stations. People who like to walk around and customize their character won't play Eve just because of WiS. It's pointless. Given there isn't really any in station content currently that isn't much of a leap to make. Look at what unique items go for, I'd say there is a lot of room for vanity in eve. Add in something like Casinos, and I think WiS will be a lot more successful than people think. There are some who like the in space stuff, but want the in character stuff too. let me play poker with isk, that i can get behind, that i would dock for
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Cyborg Girl86
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2015.06.10 00:29:35 -
[16] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:It's dead Jim, CCP tried and failed miserably. This. Some people are so unrealistically hopeful and utopian that no amount of failure ever dissuades them from something they think they want. Literally everything CCP has done that involved some form of walking has either failed ( Incarna, WoD), been disappointing at best ( DUST, even if it's true that it is profitable) or been a myth that's probably been discontinued with little fanfare ( Legion, EVA exploration). What has worked? Spaceships. Period. The WiS crowd's solution to the above history of Walking around stuff from CCP? Pour even more money and time down the same drain that's failed to produce much for 12 years. Seriously, WTF guys?
I can understand the bitter resentment the older players have for this concept based on past experiences, and I'm not here to start flame wars or ceaseless bickering. Just elaborating on my thoughts here.
It doesn't even really need to be an extremely complex system, in fact it WiS could be made simple enough in order to not overtax and overwork the devs, art team, etc. For some quick examples, when you click on the door to your CQ, a menu could pop up that gives you a list of different locations around the station. That list could be small at first limited to 2 or 3 different spots like a bar, a casino like someone mentioned earlier and maybe some kind of market for toon clothes or something. Instead of rendering and programming all of the hallways for the toons to walk around in, simply bring up a loading screen going from your CQ to that location on the menu you picked after clicking on the door control panel.
It could start small at first by like having only 2 or 3 locations on the station to go to, but if the whole WiS thing becomes more popular, CCP could add more locations based on player feedback. Also, each of these locations could be "pre-rendered copies" like how all the different empire NPC station CQ look the same.
Just some more ideas here. No need for hostilities please, just voicing some opinions that you can take or leave. |
Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
223
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Posted - 2015.06.10 00:33:17 -
[17] - Quote
The result of a wandering mind.
I survived Win95
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Amonios Zula
Aeon Ascendant
44
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Posted - 2015.06.10 00:36:14 -
[18] - Quote
If it doesn't allow casual murder of other pilots & station traders and being able to jack starships from other peoples hangars then no thanks |
Cyborg Girl86
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2015.06.10 01:12:38 -
[19] - Quote
Jeez, crazy amounts of backlash here lol
I'm not here to step on anybody's toes, just giving out some ideas that seemed good to me when I decided to write them. The forums are harsh I know, so no hard feelings on my end cause like I said earlier, everyone's got their own opinions on the matter and I knew beforehand what I was getting myself into when I decided to open this Pandora's Box of topics. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11320
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Posted - 2015.06.10 01:33:35 -
[20] - Quote
Cyborg Girl86 wrote:Jeez, crazy amounts of backlash here lol I'm not here to step on anybody's toes, just giving out some ideas that seemed good to me when I decided to write them. The forums are harsh I know, so no hard feelings on my end cause like I said earlier, everyone's got their own opinions on the matter and I knew beforehand what I was getting myself into when I decided to open this Pandora's Box of topics. I find it really weird because the idea of WiS seems to be universally rejected on these forums but a huge amount of the people I talk to in-game actually support the concept of WiS. Maybe I just happened to be talking to the right people and its all one big coincidence. I dunno.
No, there are forum people who want WiS, sometimes rabidly so. We tend to clash, I believe because some of us are pragmatic types (speaking for myself, I like the spaceship focus of the game and hate the idea of the WiS 'distraction) and most of them are imo utopian "immersion" type players who want an all inclusive sci fi universe that CCP once said they wanted to make....but failed to deliver at every turn.
I think the past should teach us something, and it's foolish to think that a company that just hasn't been able to deliver on a fraction of their previously revealed "visions" is not the company to screw around with trying (AGAIN) to do WiS. It's like taking your car to a mechanic 15 times and having that mechanic fail to fix the problem 15 times and thinking "one more time will do it!" lol.
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Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
164
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Posted - 2015.06.10 02:22:04 -
[21] - Quote
Cyborg Girl86 wrote:Jeez, crazy amounts of backlash here lol ... I find it really weird because the idea of WiS seems to be universally rejected on these forums but a huge amount of the people I talk to in-game actually support the concept of WiS. Maybe I just happened to be talking to the right people and its all one big coincidence. I dunno.
As someone who started after Incana, I've only a recent perspective, but I get the impression that WiS should not come before the focus of this game which involves spaceship in space.
It's ok for WiS to be somewhere on a wishlist but I see (from discussions on the forums) that there are other more serious issues. |
Jonni Favorite
Red Slice Enterprise
181
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Posted - 2015.06.10 02:22:38 -
[22] - Quote
It's not that there wouldn't be any interest in WIS, and I"m pretty sure even those that seem heavily opposed to it would check it out if CCP all of a sudden came out and said 'hey guys guess what we've been working on in secret for 6 years', and the addition actually rocked. But...
1. This topic has been beaten into the ground, with CCP pretty much saying the project has been abandoned and there are no future plans for it and.
2. The resources needed to produce anything of even mediocre quality are just not available, and if they were, they would be taken away from improving the core game.
I was a huge supporter when this all started, but you have to face reality some times |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
458
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Posted - 2015.06.10 03:49:16 -
[23] - Quote
I don't think many are necessarily against WiS, just the idea of devoting that much time away from the "in-space" content. CCP tried that before and were pretty roughly chastised by the player-base for it, though people were already pissed for various other reasons by that point as well. I'm not all surprised if CCP were reluctant to even think about WiS, even now or anytime soon.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
25501
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Posted - 2015.06.10 04:27:16 -
[24] - Quote
Some counterarguments for you..
Cyborg Girl86 wrote:1. Creation of content through different forms of player interaction.
I think CCP should build a casino right in Jita that is ISK based. It should have all kinds of games, and none of it needs to be WIS based at all to be very popular. Just like PLEX is a way to curb RMT, CCP's casino would be a way to curb 3rd party gambling sites, which in my opinion would be a good thing.
Quote:2. An All new level of immersion Being able to walk around and interact with New Eden with your toon would enable the Devs to inject and implement a ton of material from the EVE Lore into the game.
You are underestimating how much work this would take. CCP has massively stepped up their lore development through Scope videos, lore updates on various social media, and lore tie-ins to game mechanic changes. Asking them to do all this in realtime 3D on a game engine that is a major resource hog at the moment has a lot of complexities that CCP probably wouldn't have the manpower for.. without sacrificing the core game.
You won't be able to argue for sacrificing the core game to develop WIS. I feel that the company won't ever want to make that sort of decision ever again.
Quote:3. New ways to manage Corps/Alliances Imagine the sheer possibilities for corps and alliances WiS would bring. You corp office in station could have strategic planners, market share information on giant holopanels or terminals your toon could walk up to and manage the corp from.
Have you used Slack? Have you seen some corp webpages? Here's an example. Have you seen siggy? Have you seen Tripwire? Have you seen the tools on Steve's homepage?
I could list you a thousand examples, but my point is all of this infrastructure is better built by third parties. A corp's IT infrastructure is part of the blood, sweat, and tears of building the corp. CCP unlocks all this capability through character/corp API, CREST, and the open EVE database access APIs so that CCP isn't spending time building tools EVE players can build for themselves.
Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
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DaReaper
Net 7
2187
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Posted - 2015.06.10 04:31:18 -
[25] - Quote
There is room in eve for WiS, or avatar game play. But to be 100% honest, i am not sure what ccp is doing in way of direction. they keep flip flopping. in 2013 it was EVE everywhere! in 2014 it was Eve on PC all game playing together eventually! in 2015 it was, yea lets be stupid cautions and only show what we can deliver this year... oh and btw here are some random bits we are working on vr, which is kinda outside of new eden.. except nemesis which is an eve shooter.. but contrary to last year, this won;t be on pc.
I got the feeling that at fan fest 15 ccp had made a hefty promise at 14, jumped the gun on legion and decided to pull WAY back and go slow.
My honest hope is eve vegas and fan fest 16 set a good ground work for whatever the hell ccp as a companies future plans and goals are, cause this confusing crap needs to stop.
Then they can bring in avatar play, but it needs a place and a way to play, so first ccp needs to get a goal and stick to it damn it,
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
190
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Posted - 2015.06.10 04:33:22 -
[26] - Quote
I want WiS so we can all make love and cyber in each other's Captian Quarters.
Itll be a massive orgy in dodixie and a giant harem house in amarr erryday.
Seriously we get baribies that we play dress up with. Next logical move is love barbies.
Just like the Sims!!!!
Sims WahhHoooo!!! |
DaReaper
Net 7
2187
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Posted - 2015.06.10 04:43:12 -
[27] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:It's dead Jim, CCP tried and failed miserably. This. Some people are so unrealistically hopeful and utopian that no amount of failure ever dissuades them from something they think they want. Literally everything CCP has done that involved some form of walking has either failed ( Incarna, WoD), been disappointing at best ( DUST, even if it's true that it is profitable) or been a myth that's probably been discontinued with little fanfare ( Legion, EVA exploration). What has worked? Spaceships. Period. The WiS crowd's solution to the above history of Walking around stuff from CCP? Pour even more money and time down the same drain that's failed to produce much for 12 years. Seriously, WTF guys?
There is a reason for this. CCP did not have a clear director for WoD, and kept changing the damn thing. Same with incarnia. Ambulation in 2007 was AMAZING, then somewhere along the way ccp said 'naw thats stupid lets go this really ****** way instead' Its mostly about no real direction, just pie in the sky ideas, that are poorly executed. Dust had this huge ambition. but we got.. crap. CCP forgot the important thing... us. Dust might be profitable, but it failed. and contrary to popular belief no, it did not fail because it 'was not on pc' Dust failed because ccp forget the most important thing. US. The eve community. We needed a reason to give a **** about dust, and we didn;t have one. If we HAD we would of done more to bridge the gap and make it fun for dust bunnies. And i think this is something ccp learned about Valkyrie. When you let eve players use it, try it, and give you feed back, we start to care about it. If you make the eve community really care about the product, then it will be successful.
WiS failed, not because of just incarnia, bu the other issues hitting ALL at once. CCP lost its way a long time ago, got bogged down in becoming bigger then they were. forgot about us, and ****** up. I see that ccp is remembering without there players caring, anything in the eve universe will fail.
And they really need to sotp biting off more then they can chew and focus.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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DremDorun
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
58
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Posted - 2015.06.10 05:22:18 -
[28] - Quote
Nothing is wrong with so-called space-barbies. Many WiS objectors quite enjoy playing with the avatar creator, which perfectly lands them in space-barbie category.
Nevertheless, pro-spaceship crowd freaks out each time the "dead horse" is brought up to be beaten up.
Problem is CCP probably cannot develop WiS that won't fry our GPU's again - even after all this time. Jita Bars, Casinos? Nah... Too much crowd. The avatars would have to be dumbed down. What a shame would it be!
Sibyyl wrote:You are underestimating how much work this would take. CCP has massively stepped up their lore development through Scope videos Well, not any less work than any generic MMOs would. Scope videos are great, except every "character" looks oh so dead in them, I think it's pretty embarrassing. Is that "massively" stepped up development or rather "Sorry, we cannot do any better than this?"
Sibyyl wrote:You won't be able to argue for sacrificing the core game to develop WIS. TBH, I am not quite sure what the core game development of EvE for CCP is any more. The recent tweaks of UI - neocom, overview or even damage control icon, ffs, were not necessary. But maybe, just maaaybe, gave hopes about drone UI to be reworked? Probably not.
The only reason for not developing ambulation any further would be not having any developers left, which is probably the case (WoD team disbanded, other developers layed off or ran off.) |
Falken Falcon
31984
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Posted - 2015.06.10 05:37:16 -
[29] - Quote
Would very much like to see WIS, but i most likely never will.
Maybe far far in the future.. Maybe
Aye, Sea Turtles
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Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
1004
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Posted - 2015.06.10 08:31:24 -
[30] - Quote
Unless WiS contributes something to the game (like having someone get kicked out of station, stealing his stuff and generally being able to mess around with other players) there is no point to it. Hell, even providing "windows" (a way to see who camps the station flying what) could be considered a contribution. Just Walking in Stations to show off some clothes can not.
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
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