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Gonada
Gallente Cross Roads
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:04:00 -
[31]
pretty lame, every day I see yet another dry from the unintellegant to nerf something new.
as todays cry is about NOS, might i suggest :
1. stay out of range
2. cap injectors
3. not thinking that you in your smaller ship can "own" any other ship out there.
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.- -nerf Missles-
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:20:00 -
[32]
The problem with these ideas are they're all driving towards the same thing: raw DPS >>>> Everything else.
That would be lame. If you know you're going to be fighting a nos-domi then for the love of god stay 25km away and/or sensor dampen him so he can't target/jam/whatever. There are a half-dozen ways you can render all that nos useless, the point is people don't want to unfit the gank setup.
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DefJam101
Gallente Praxiteles Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Lucy Moo
It's so lame how battleships can just fit a few nos and destroy anything smaller than themselves, what good are most HAC's against a battleship who has 2 or more nos fitted? Domis are even worse, how is any hac supposed to fit a domi with 5 nos?
Try fighting from more than 25km away? Just a thought.
Impossible, you need scrambling.
***
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Nev Clavain
Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:38:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Nev Clavain on 22/11/2006 02:40:24
Originally by: Lucy Moo
Originally by: Wulfstan
Originally by: Lucy Moo It's so lame how battleships can just fit a few nos and destroy anything smaller than themselves, what good are most HAC's against a battleship who has 2 or more nos fitted? Domis are even worse, how is any hac supposed to fit a domi with 5 nos?
Surely that's by design? A HAC is not supposed to be able to WTFPWN a BS. Just becuase they cost 200 mill people forget where they sit in the food chain.
If every large thing was balanced out so it had a smaller effect on every small thing, I could go out and PWN anything else in my AF surely?
A 25km Area Of Effect NOS, that would be overpowered!
At even 50m a hac would be more expensive than a battleship, because it cannot be insured, also, in terms of DPS and tanking, what the hell are you talking about, its place in the food chain? the HAC is way up there on equal level with battleships. It's not right that your standard nos domi setup will have empty a full capacitor of energy on a HAC in just 12 seconds. Nos should follow the same rule as other hi-slot offense weapons, with large versions having less of an effect on smaller ships.
I have explained this earlier, but either you didnt read it or you are ignoring it. Your Hac on base stats can lock a domi faster than a domi can lock you. That applies to any smaller ship class. This gives you an EW advantage. Therefore you can use ecm or sensor dampeners to make sure that he cannot target lock you, and still stay in range to scramble him.
Nos (and drones) are one of the only defenses a big ship has left against smaller ship classes, which is why the domi fitted right is particularly vicious to a HAC pilot who makes a mistake, which is fair enough. Nos is good against hacs, and good against alot of things, but you are sacrificing damage and alot of powergrid for every single one you fit.
Explain to me why a battleship should have no viable advantages over a HAC? Explain to me how that is balanced.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:46:00 -
[35]
There is no change coming to Nos nor planned.
Ship lovers click here |
Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:49:00 -
[36]
How about a countermodule for nos, no not cap charges, something to hurt the nosser.
An ECCM modules that overloads the drain and makes the draining ship have to dump cap to avoid core meltdown. So instead of gaining cap when zapping a ship using this module they run the risk of losing cap.
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Quilan Ziller
Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:12:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Quilan Ziller on 22/11/2006 04:12:27
Originally by: DefJam101
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Lucy Moo
It's so lame how battleships can just fit a few nos and destroy anything smaller than themselves, what good are most HAC's against a battleship who has 2 or more nos fitted? Domis are even worse, how is any hac supposed to fit a domi with 5 nos?
Try fighting from more than 25km away? Just a thought.
Impossible, you need scrambling.
To be able to scramble, you fit a small NOS and a 7500m scram on your small ship. Small NOS has a faster cycle than a medium or large one, and you will almost always have cap to cycle your scrambler. I have been scrammed in my Thorax with two medium NOS by an Enyo with 1 small NOS. I have lost that fight (there was also a Caracal hitting me from 35km).
______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein |
Gonada
Gallente Cross Roads
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:16:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Wendat Huron How about a countermodule for nos, no not cap charges, something to hurt the nosser.
An ECCM modules that overloads the drain and makes the draining ship have to dump cap to avoid core meltdown. So instead of gaining cap when zapping a ship using this module they run the risk of losing cap.
--------------
I find using that growth on your shoulders helps alot.
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.- -nerf Missles-
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:40:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Tux talked about having a small percentage of the capacitor be undrainable by NOS, and maybe having batteries be undrainable as well. Neuts however would still destroy cap freely.
It was definitely a drawing board kind of thing though. The only thing you can conclude from it is that they were examining whether NOS might be overpowered even before the hp boost.
The result of a change like that? Minmatar = Gallente = Caldari. And a million of "boost Amarr" posts. As of now, Hybrid and Energy turrets use cap to fire. Projectiles and missiles do not. So, a nossed Hybrid/Energy ship cannot fire, while a nossed projectile/missile boat can. With a small amount of cap always available, a Hybrid setup will continue firing - just like minnie ships can now. Energy turrets use the most cap of all weapons, so the poor Amarr won't be able to fire for as long as Gallente. Nerfing NOS will take out more than one dimension from the game as we know it. And new game balance problems will be introduced. Don't fix it if it ain't broke...
You're assuming a lot, and ignoring some too. Note the words 'small percentage'. IIRC, the numbers thrown around were in the 5-10% range, which is well below the critical cap recharge point. Batteries would complicate things, but again, these were just preliminary ideas. And he expressly said that Neuts would probably still take cap down to zero.
The funny thing about this in retrospect is that a lot of Amarr players were the most unhappy with the ideas. See: Curse, Pilgrim.
Anyway, I'm neither for or against the ideas until I see something more concrete. Since this was all pre-kali, I wouldn't be suprised if they take a completely different tack with NOS or none at all. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Quilan Ziller
Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:42:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Imba Bambi
Quote: Yes, it can beat most smaller ships 1 vs 1 in short range combat. This is the way it SHOULD be. It is a BS, after all. Against another BS? Like... A passive shield tanked Tempest? Or a Raven (also with passive tank)?
I am not saying that a Dominix can own all types of BS, but it in its standard setup it is a strong choice against all actively tanked battleships - which is fine. The problem is that, also in its standard setup, it is devastating against smaller ships - while most of the other ships have a trade off here.
So, you have admitted yourself that a standard NOS-Domi is only effective against other BS with active tanks. Its drone DPS and tanking abilities are nothing to write home about, so a NOS-Domi depends on draining the opponents cap to silence the guns and break the tank. It is also very dependent on range. A faster BS setup for standoff will always own Domi's ass. Can you name me another battleship setup with the same limitations? Not really. Every other BS is more or less agnostic in terms of preferred setup for the victim. This is the price the Domi pays for being able to defend against smaller ships.
Originally by: Imba Bambi
Quote: Think about it... A Domi will have nothing to hit back against a smaller tough ship.Guns? No, large guns don't track, and have a 400m signature res. Drones? Heavy drones are slow, and miss. Light drones don't do enough damage. What is the point of a Domi at all then?
Well, thats the situation for most other battleships. Think of a Tempest that is fit to defeat other BS. It has much more problems to deal with small enemies because its large turrets track awfully, it has less NOS, and a much smaller drone bay. And, quite frankly, this is how it should be.
A ship specifically fit to defeat large ships shouldnt be able to dispatch smaller ones as a side effect. And dont tell me that everybody will fly Ishkurs to own battle ships then. Guess what will happen? We will see more battleships that are fit to counter frigs, and they have such a great arsenal to do so that they will wipe the floor with small ships. And I dont have a problem with that, as long as they offset this ability with a weakness in the bs vs bs area.
What I am suggesting is nothing drastic, but maybe some kind of signature size for NOS. Dominix would still be able to swap 4 Heavy NOS for 4 Medium NOS, and thus own smaller ships. But it should be able to do so only at the cost of decreasing its performance in other areas, and thats not the case now.
No other battleships able to defend against smaller ships? How so? You cannot just go and scramble a Raven with your Taranis, because the missiles always hit. Of course, damage will be reduced by your sig radius, but your Taranis will very soon be dead. Tempest? 4 launcher hardpoints? The tackler frig or inty is so dead. Also don't forget the drones. Domi has a huge drone bay, but you don't launch heavies against small ships. You launch lights or mediums, and every BS I know (including Tempest) can field at least a full flight of med drones. So... Not much difference between the Domi and the Tempest. Tempest has launchers, Domi has NOS. Neither one of them can be easily destroyed by an AF. Oh, and a Domi with 4 medium NOS = slightly buffed Vexor for 55 million ISK
______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein |
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Quilan Ziller
Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Tux talked about having a small percentage of the capacitor be undrainable by NOS, and maybe having batteries be undrainable as well. Neuts however would still destroy cap freely.
It was definitely a drawing board kind of thing though. The only thing you can conclude from it is that they were examining whether NOS might be overpowered even before the hp boost.
The result of a change like that? Minmatar = Gallente = Caldari. And a million of "boost Amarr" posts. As of now, Hybrid and Energy turrets use cap to fire. Projectiles and missiles do not. So, a nossed Hybrid/Energy ship cannot fire, while a nossed projectile/missile boat can. With a small amount of cap always available, a Hybrid setup will continue firing - just like minnie ships can now. Energy turrets use the most cap of all weapons, so the poor Amarr won't be able to fire for as long as Gallente. Nerfing NOS will take out more than one dimension from the game as we know it. And new game balance problems will be introduced. Don't fix it if it ain't broke...
You're assuming a lot, and ignoring some too. Note the words 'small percentage'. IIRC, the numbers thrown around were in the 5-10% range, which is well below the critical cap recharge point. Batteries would complicate things, but again, these were just preliminary ideas. And he expressly said that Neuts would probably still take cap down to zero.
The funny thing about this in retrospect is that a lot of Amarr players were the most unhappy with the ideas. See: Curse, Pilgrim.
Anyway, I'm neither for or against the ideas until I see something more concrete. Since this was all pre-kali, I wouldn't be suprised if they take a completely different tack with NOS or none at all.
Assuming and ignoring WHAT exactly? Hybrid guns don't use much cap. With 10% of my cap (and recharge rate unchanged) I can fire away with my blasters as much as I want. Especially since the large NOS cycle is so long. You can even model this experimentally. Fit a Thorax with 5 blasters and a medium NOS, and ask your friend in a Domi to NOS you. Then start nossing a Domi and activate the blasters. They will shoot with no hesitation. This is the same result you will get with the 10% undrainable cap. Now, unlike blasters, lasers can actually drain cap. Having that 10% cap intact won't do Amarr ships as much good as it will to my Gallente ship. And this will be quite unfair to the Amarr... Anyways, NOS are just fine. They are not an I-WIN button. And I hope nothing will be changed.
______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein |
Ketrin
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:53:00 -
[42]
@ Jim McGregor
**** it mate you posted in each whining topic on every forum I read this month at least once. You should get the "Whiner of the month" award or something.
Play the game by ITS rules do not change the rules so you can play better :P.
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Amarr Nite
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lucy Moo Did i hear ccp mention somewhere a nos nerf was coming? I cant remember for sure.
It's so lame how battleships can just fit a few nos and destroy anything smaller than themselves, what good are most HAC's against a battleship who has 2 or more nos fitted? Domis are even worse, how is any hac supposed to fit a domi with 5 nos?
Is a nos nerf really coming? Something like large nos has less of an effect on smaller sized ships, same goes for medium nos vs smaller ships.
your so lame for wanting to be able to beat everything in the game with one ship cuzz you paid a trillion isk for it. Why people keep thinking eve is suppose to be designed around soloing ill never know.
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dantes inferno
Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2006.11.22 06:07:00 -
[44]
i hope not, small ships have enough of a invunerability button thanks.
RAM is recruiting |
Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.22 08:18:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Lucy Moo whinge, whine, moan.... Domis are even worse, how is any hac supposed to fit a domi with 5 nos?
Either fit jammers or bring friends.
Besides if I fitted 5 large NOS I would have no grid left for a decent tank.
I use 2 large max, maybe with a Heavy Nuet, maybe without.
F4T4L is Recruiting! |
Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2006.12.02 06:06:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ketrin @ Jim McGregor
damn it mate you posted in each whining topic on every forum I read this month at least once. You should get the "Whiner of the month" award or something.
Play the game by ITS rules do not change the rules so you can play better :P.
And a whiner of the month about the whiner of the month for you mate. |
Phyrr
Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2006.12.02 06:13:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Lucy Moo Did i hear ccp mention somewhere a nos nerf was coming? I cant remember for sure.
It's so lame how battleships can just fit a few nos and destroy anything smaller than themselves, what good are most HAC's against a battleship who has 2 or more nos fitted? Domis are even worse, how is any hac supposed to fit a domi with 5 nos?
Is a nos nerf really coming? Something like large nos has less of an effect on smaller sized ships, same goes for medium nos vs smaller ships.
ohnoes you can't play the game how you want...must be nerf time. That is until someone wants your nerf nerfed.
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Merchantigus
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Posted - 2006.12.02 06:15:00 -
[48]
nos has a very VERY simple counter. stay out of range. as long as there is a counter there is no problem
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.12.02 06:22:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Audri Fisher on 02/12/2006 06:25:38
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Lucy Moo
It's so lame how battleships can just fit a few nos and destroy anything smaller than themselves, what good are most HAC's against a battleship who has 2 or more nos fitted? Domis are even worse, how is any hac supposed to fit a domi with 5 nos?
Try fighting from more than 25km away? Just a thought.
bump them like crazy with a shuttle, becuase you can't scramble from more than 25km without a gallente recon.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.02 06:36:00 -
[50]
Reading these threads I keep thinking "have these people ever heard of sensor damps?"
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Merchantigus
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Posted - 2006.12.02 06:40:00 -
[51]
counter tactics be hanged!
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Piotr Anatolev
Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.02 07:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lucy Moo Did i hear ccp mention somewhere a nos nerf was coming? I cant remember for sure.
It's so lame how battleships can just fit a few nos and destroy anything smaller than themselves, what good are most HAC's against a battleship who has 2 or more nos fitted? Domis are even worse, how is any hac supposed to fit a domi with 5 nos?
Is a nos nerf really coming? Something like large nos has less of an effect on smaller sized ships, same goes for medium nos vs smaller ships.
No.
Unnerf your tactics instead of just beating your head against the wall. Pick your fights.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.02 07:18:00 -
[53]
what we need with the overheat idea and subset dmg weapons is a NOS damagaing weapon that disrupts its cycles on % basis similar to ECM - sensor damps are also good
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Ghitza
Backup Squad
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Posted - 2006.12.02 07:43:00 -
[54]
Learn to play NOS whiners.
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MrRx7
Amarr Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.12.02 08:36:00 -
[55]
Alright....becuase we apperntly dont understand how the search button works...lets review every time this stupid topic has come up shall we?
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
This goes on for another 100+ pages of result
Solution: 1. Stop crying about it and fit to expect it...Frigs are not ment to attack battleships solo 2. CCP could do somthing that would nerf it, all the cry babies would be happy while the few ships designed for it would get screwed
To the Start of this topic: Learn to SEARCH..
Thanks
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Merchantigus
Minmatar Riot Zone
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Posted - 2006.12.02 09:32:00 -
[56]
I'm in your base posting on your mans!11
fist "what good are most HAC's against a battleship" should of been the end of this post right here. "nerf nos my hac stays in nos range and can't solo the few battleships that depend on it oh noes!" not to mention it's a friggen hac. i dont complain when my frig can't break a bc solo and i'm sure as hell not going to blame it on nos.
a....1 webber on anything from a cruiser up and that frig/inty/llama is now lunch. b. a single frig can't break a halfways decent bc much less a battleship. if anything cruiser+ fits a webber small ships = doomed(unless he stay out of range and most of the small ships will just run off because they can't hurt you). c. a frig can take out a poorly fitted cruiser. d. anit nos = range, cap booster or jammer learn to play e. good to hear they aren't going to nerf it anytime soon f. search ftw
why post if i'm sick of seeing this thread? because like all the other whine threads it's never ever going to go away and posting those links is just going to bring back all the old ones when nubsauce post in them all
"lololol missions gank suxors probes wtf?!?! Carebear noobs stop gate camping dieee!!! I CTD LIKE WHOAH!!1 noobs can eat my sausage ktnxbie" :That's how you start a flame war: |
Cat Casidy
CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.02 09:47:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Cat Casidy on 02/12/2006 09:48:53
*Almost certainly nominated for something somewhere* |
Cat Casidy
CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.02 09:52:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Lucy Moo Did i hear ccp mention somewhere a nos nerf was coming? I cant remember for sure.
It's so lame how battleships can just fit a few nos and destroy anything smaller than themselves, what good are most HAC's against a battleship who has 2 or more nos fitted? Domis are even worse, how is any hac supposed to fit a domi with 5 nos?
Is a nos nerf really coming? Something like large nos has less of an effect on smaller sized ships, same goes for medium nos vs smaller ships.
I for one would like to meet this 5 heavy nos Domi, since it probly has no tank and all of its dps will be from easily destructible drones given the new combat length. Change your tactics.
*Almost certainly nominated for something somewhere* |
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