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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2073
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 18:18:47 -
[1] - Quote
as it stands today we do not have a EWAR to be used against drones or missiles... but we do have tracking units and now we are going to get enhancers for missiles.
I would like to see ECM changed from breaking a lock on a ship to affecting drone/missile tracking/explosion velocity and radius and flight time and velocity...
basically turn ECM into the tracking disrupter for drones and missiles.
This would mean the removal of ECCM and the removal of sensor strength for all ships plus the reinforcement for skill points trained toward compensation skills.
TLDR: ECM no longer breaks ship lock it now works as a TD for missiles and drones.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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Globby
Origin. Black Legion.
44
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Posted - 2015.06.12 18:24:14 -
[2] - Quote
As a prolific suicide ganker whose only counter at the moment is ECM, I can gladly stand behind and support this change wholeheartedly. |
unidenify
Plundering Penguins
117
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Posted - 2015.06.12 19:05:40 -
[3] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:as it stands today we do not have a EWAR to be used against drones or missiles... but we do have tracking units and now we are going to get enhancers for missiles.
I would like to see ECM changed from breaking a lock on a ship to affecting drone/missile tracking/explosion velocity and radius and flight time and velocity...
basically turn ECM into the tracking disrupter for drones and missiles.
This would mean the removal of ECCM and the removal of sensor strength for all ships plus the reinforcement for skill points trained toward compensation skills.
TLDR: ECM no longer breaks ship lock it now works as a TD for missiles and drones.
I wonder if you have ever heard smartbomb (firewall) or Defender missile? |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2073
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 19:14:33 -
[4] - Quote
unidenify wrote:MeBiatch wrote:as it stands today we do not have a EWAR to be used against drones or missiles... but we do have tracking units and now we are going to get enhancers for missiles.
I would like to see ECM changed from breaking a lock on a ship to affecting drone/missile tracking/explosion velocity and radius and flight time and velocity...
basically turn ECM into the tracking disrupter for drones and missiles.
This would mean the removal of ECCM and the removal of sensor strength for all ships plus the reinforcement for skill points trained toward compensation skills.
TLDR: ECM no longer breaks ship lock it now works as a TD for missiles and drones. I wonder if you have ever heard smartbomb (firewall) or Defender missile?
smartbombs are a no go in high sec... and in null are only a thing if you get close to the drones... and also in the 07 show they are going to increase hp for missiles and give them like 95% native resist to thier damage type...
so in reality in a couple of months we will see missiles online...
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
unidenify
Plundering Penguins
117
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 19:16:04 -
[5] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:unidenify wrote:MeBiatch wrote:as it stands today we do not have a EWAR to be used against drones or missiles... but we do have tracking units and now we are going to get enhancers for missiles.
I would like to see ECM changed from breaking a lock on a ship to affecting drone/missile tracking/explosion velocity and radius and flight time and velocity...
basically turn ECM into the tracking disrupter for drones and missiles.
This would mean the removal of ECCM and the removal of sensor strength for all ships plus the reinforcement for skill points trained toward compensation skills.
TLDR: ECM no longer breaks ship lock it now works as a TD for missiles and drones. I wonder if you have ever heard smartbomb (firewall) or Defender missile? smartbombs are a no go in high sec... and in null are only a thing if you get close to the drones... and also in the 07 show they are going to increase hp for missiles and give them like 95% native resist to thier damage type... so in reality in a couple of months we will see missiles online...
There are defender missile, you should try to get CCP to make launcher that is for defender missile only, and don't require launcher hardpoint. |
Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
134
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Posted - 2015.06.12 19:16:51 -
[6] - Quote
Did someone get jammed while soloing?
Sucks, I know.
-1 still not supported
The UI update we deserve
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
84
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Posted - 2015.06.12 19:20:21 -
[7] - Quote
No ECM has been nerfed enough already Honestly, if anything, it needs a buff not get changed into a totally different thing altogether.
As for anti missile: They need to make a launcher for defender missiles, and make it so that it doesn't require a weapon hardpoint. Maybe even make it a midslot like other ewar.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.-á He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
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Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
34
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Posted - 2015.06.12 19:37:12 -
[8] - Quote
Don't forget about FW universe. Firewall and SB for drones are out of the question for them cause of Standing Hits. |
Wynta
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
22
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Posted - 2015.06.12 19:57:56 -
[9] - Quote
Taram Caldar wrote:No ECM has been nerfed enough already Honestly, if anything, it needs a buff not get changed into a totally different thing altogether.
As for anti missile: They need to make a launcher for defender missiles, and make it so that it doesn't require a weapon hardpoint. Maybe even make it a midslot like other ewar.
Point Defense System
Utility High, Roughly equal to fitting requirements of a nuet. 3 sizes (Light, Heavy, Large). 2 Scripts: 1 that hits any inbound missile or bomb direct toward you, and 1 that specifically targets bombs and missiles from a locked target that cant hit even if that target isnt attacking you |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1889
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 20:02:23 -
[10] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:as it stands today we do not have a EWAR to be used against drones or missiles... but we do have tracking units and now we are going to get enhancers for missiles.
I would like to see ECM changed from breaking a lock on a ship to affecting drone/missile tracking/explosion velocity and radius and flight time and velocity...
basically turn ECM into the tracking disrupter for drones and missiles.
This would mean the removal of ECCM and the removal of sensor strength for all ships plus the reinforcement for skill points trained toward compensation skills.
TLDR: ECM no longer breaks ship lock it now works as a TD for missiles and drones.
So the faction who's got what would amount to the best offensive missile system in the game build an e-war system to counter itself while being completely inefficient against a large part of it's traditional main enemy? |
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Wynta
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
22
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Posted - 2015.06.12 20:07:10 -
[11] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:MeBiatch wrote:as it stands today we do not have a EWAR to be used against drones or missiles... but we do have tracking units and now we are going to get enhancers for missiles.
I would like to see ECM changed from breaking a lock on a ship to affecting drone/missile tracking/explosion velocity and radius and flight time and velocity...
basically turn ECM into the tracking disrupter for drones and missiles.
This would mean the removal of ECCM and the removal of sensor strength for all ships plus the reinforcement for skill points trained toward compensation skills.
TLDR: ECM no longer breaks ship lock it now works as a TD for missiles and drones. So the faction who's got what would amount to the best offensive missile system in the game build an e-war system to counter itself while being completely inefficient against a large part of it's traditional main enemy?
I agree if anything it should be a dedicated Anti-drone platform |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2073
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 20:29:58 -
[12] - Quote
Wynta wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:MeBiatch wrote:as it stands today we do not have a EWAR to be used against drones or missiles... but we do have tracking units and now we are going to get enhancers for missiles.
I would like to see ECM changed from breaking a lock on a ship to affecting drone/missile tracking/explosion velocity and radius and flight time and velocity...
basically turn ECM into the tracking disrupter for drones and missiles.
This would mean the removal of ECCM and the removal of sensor strength for all ships plus the reinforcement for skill points trained toward compensation skills.
TLDR: ECM no longer breaks ship lock it now works as a TD for missiles and drones. So the faction who's got what would amount to the best offensive missile system in the game build an e-war system to counter itself while being completely inefficient against a large part of it's traditional main enemy? I agree if anything it should be a dedicated Anti-drone platform
well they also work against all the drones from a ship...
so you target that domi or gila and all of a sudden thier tracking suck or thier range can no longer reach out.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2074
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 21:30:26 -
[13] - Quote
also AFAIK the main races will use ewar that is good against thier types due to pirate factions using thier weapon types...
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
Portmanteau
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
50
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Posted - 2015.06.12 23:07:21 -
[14] - Quote
Ecm is widely despised as a crappy no fun game mechanic and anything that counters the ubiquitous drone meta is a good idea. What's not to like ? |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2074
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 23:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:Ecm is widely despised as a crappy no fun game mechanic and anything that counters the ubiquitous drone meta is a good idea. What's not to like ?
Those who have abused the mechanic for years do not like the prospect of actually fighting...
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2076
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 01:50:26 -
[16] - Quote
An alternative idea could be make it when you TD a ship it affects all of its drones like it would its turrets. Then make ECM work by making a chance on how many missiles will miss.
Example: you fire 6 missiles from your drake and the other guy has ecm on your ship because the ecm is better then your sensor strength 2 of those missiles miss their target and you loose 33% of the missile dps.
So it would be a balance of internal sensor strength plus ECCM against ECM.
Also i would make damage type be a racial based... So if you are in a caldari ship that means you have a better chance of hitting with Kinetic Missiles. So that means the guy will want to use Gravimetric ECM to make the Kin missiles miss but then you can swap damage types and make all your missiles hit.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
89
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Posted - 2015.06.13 03:39:43 -
[17] - Quote
How about we don't and we actually give defender missiles a useful purpose. You should read this for my take on what defender missiles could be.
ECM needs it's own adjustments, but I'd say more to it's optimal range calculations just like all ewar needs to have their optimal ranges put in check. No more of this 100 out and jamming or disrupting near perfectly unless they want to field a battleship hull then I'm more okay with it because the investment is there. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2077
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 03:49:54 -
[18] - Quote
I updated the op with new idea.
Honestly i would just removed defender missiles from the game.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
486
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 04:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:as it stands today we do not have a EWAR to be used against drones (you can TD a drone but td the ship will only affect turrets) or missiles... but we do have tracking units and now we are going to get enhancers for missiles.
I'm a bit confused here, are you trying to say that you cannot TD drones? Because you can. It might not be overly effective against an Ishtar since it has 5 drones, but it can be quite devastating to a Worm/Gila/Rattlesnake since they are only fielding 2 drones with their standard drones launched.
MeBiatch wrote: I would like to see ECM changed from breaking a lock on a ship to affecting the missiles guidance systems. Ecm will now have a chance to cause incoming missiles from the targeted ship to miss. ..
example you have a drake and it fires 6 heavy missiles because you have ecm on you 2 of those missiles do not hit the target. now to counter this you have base ship sensor strength and you can also fit an ECCM. ECCM counters ECM and makes it so the missiles hit their target.
TD now will affect the ships drones aswell as its turrets.
So this means that a TD used against a domi will make all of its sentry drones have either thier optimal range or tracking affected.
So overall you are suggesting that ECM gets massively nerfed because in its current form it also prevents the other ship from pointing/webbing/neuting etc etc anything. But you are also suggesting a massive buff to TD by having TD affect the drones of ship when you are putting TDs on the ship itself.
Really TD are in a decent spot right now because they are very effective against turret boats, they can still nerf damage application on a drone boat, and they simply do not work against missile boats (Unless you count putting your TDs on their unbonused drones )
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2077
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 04:44:30 -
[20] - Quote
Hopelesshobo wrote:MeBiatch wrote:as it stands today we do not have a EWAR to be used against drones (you can TD a drone but td the ship will only affect turrets) or missiles... but we do have tracking units and now we are going to get enhancers for missiles.
I'm a bit confused here, are you trying to say that you cannot TD drones? Because you can. It might not be overly effective against an Ishtar since it has 5 drones, but it can be quite devastating to a Worm/Gila/Rattlesnake since they are only fielding 2 drones with their standard drones launched. )
NO obviously i know you can target an individual drone... what i am saying is instead of targeting the drone you target the ship.
example a domi. you use the TP with optimal range script on the domi and now all 5 of its sentries are affected just like it would affect your turrets.
Hopelesshobo wrote:So overall you are suggesting that ECM gets massively nerfed because in its current form it also prevents the other ship from pointing/webbing/neuting etc etc anything. But you are also suggesting a massive buff to TD by having TD affect the drones of ship when you are putting TDs on the ship itself. Really TD are in a decent spot right now because they are very effective against turret boats, they can still nerf damage application on a drone boat, and they simply do not work against missile boats (Unless you count putting your TDs on their unbonused drones
What i am asking for is ECM to be the counter to the new boosted missiles especially since all missiles are going to gain hp and native resists to its damage type... so this means firewalls are going to be way less effective.
Also making TD work on all drones for the ship will really counter the current sentry meta that we see. It wont make tds op it will make them usefull against drone ships.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
|
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
738
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 05:46:55 -
[21] - Quote
Globby wrote:As a prolific suicide ganker whose only counter at the moment is ECM, I can gladly stand behind and support this change wholeheartedly. Word, brother.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
753
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 07:14:40 -
[22] - Quote
All forms of ECM should affect npc's like they do PC's.
You can still benefit from jamming a drone ship if you can force him to abandon them, recall them or just shoot them yourself. Drones won't aggression unless they see you begin hostile action (start shooting something new or after a reload, etc), or are told to which requires a lock. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1383
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 08:30:27 -
[23] - Quote
ECM is kinda useful to break logi chains you know... |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems
356
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 15:17:26 -
[24] - Quote
Wynta wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:MeBiatch wrote:as it stands today we do not have a EWAR to be used against drones or missiles... but we do have tracking units and now we are going to get enhancers for missiles.
I would like to see ECM changed from breaking a lock on a ship to affecting drone/missile tracking/explosion velocity and radius and flight time and velocity...
basically turn ECM into the tracking disrupter for drones and missiles.
This would mean the removal of ECCM and the removal of sensor strength for all ships plus the reinforcement for skill points trained toward compensation skills.
TLDR: ECM no longer breaks ship lock it now works as a TD for missiles and drones. So the faction who's got what would amount to the best offensive missile system in the game build an e-war system to counter itself while being completely inefficient against a large part of it's traditional main enemy? I agree if anything it should be a dedicated Anti-drone platform
I would argue that ecm needs to disrupt a ship from controlling it's drones. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1466
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 09:09:21 -
[25] - Quote
Getting jammed by a Falcon ....
it has a counter in the game already.
a counter with a longer e-war range a counter with a faster base speed
you'll find it listed for sale on the market under advanced Gallente cruisers
ccp already provided you with the tools to deal with this it's your fault for not utilising them |
Specia1 K
State War Academy Caldari State
88
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Posted - 2015.06.14 10:10:04 -
[26] - Quote
Another Caldari nerf, to coincide with missile rebalance? Ya, no.
Bring on the Drake Train... |
Fourteen Maken
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
165
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 13:09:15 -
[27] - Quote
The only thing that affects turrets but doesn't affect missiles is the Tracking Disruptor, why not have the Tracking disruptor reduce missile and drone speed with the optimal disruption script, and increase missile explosion radius/drone tracking with the tracking disruption script, and like you say when it's applied to the hull of the other ship it should affect all drones in that ships control as well.
same thing with ecm it should apply to drones, a succesful jam could cause the drone ship to lose control of it's drones |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
486
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Posted - 2015.06.14 13:16:57 -
[28] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote: same thing with ecm it should apply to drones, a succesful jam could cause the drone ship to lose control of it's drones
Because drones, much like Auto-Targeting missiles have their own targeting systems? It also provides something called a counter to the EWAR being applied to you. A handful of unbonused drones, can, and will either pop a falcon or make him warp off.
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
|
Fourteen Maken
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
165
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 13:29:06 -
[29] - Quote
Hopelesshobo wrote:Fourteen Maken wrote: same thing with ecm it should apply to drones, a succesful jam could cause the drone ship to lose control of it's drones
Because drones, much like Auto-Targeting missiles have their own targeting systems? It also provides something called a counter to the EWAR being applied to you. A handful of unbonused drones, can, and will either pop a falcon or make him warp off.
Drones are immune to neuts and tracking disruptors, they are practically immune to ecm and sensor damps. How about they remove auto targeting missiles, and instead give lasers and hybrids auto targeting rounds since they are more vulnerable to neuting.
EDIT: and change the ai so the auto targets prioritize ewar ships first? |
Eris Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.14 14:10:01 -
[30] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:Hopelesshobo wrote:Fourteen Maken wrote: same thing with ecm it should apply to drones, a succesful jam could cause the drone ship to lose control of it's drones
Because drones, much like Auto-Targeting missiles have their own targeting systems? It also provides something called a counter to the EWAR being applied to you. A handful of unbonused drones, can, and will either pop a falcon or make him warp off. Drones are immune to neuts and tracking disruptors, they are practically immune to ecm and sensor damps. How about they remove auto targeting missiles, and instead give lasers and hybrids auto targeting rounds since they are more vulnerable to neuting. EDIT: and change the ai so the auto targets prioritize ewar ships first?
Uhm, I'm not sure where you've been, drones are NOT immune to tracking disruptors or ecm. Hell, those are what let some smaller ships kill gilas/rattlesnakes. Tracking disrupt or jam the 2 lone drones and usually the person won't have any clue why their drones can't hit all of a sudden. Damps i assume work on drones, but their optimal/falloff is so low already, that the % taken off is negligible. |
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