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My way of sorta nerfing nos.

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IHaveTenFingers Caldari ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2006.11.22 22:16:00 - [1] Edited by: IHaveTenFingers on 22/11/2006 22:33:42 Edited by: IHaveTenFingers on 22/11/2006 22:19:48 How about ships have a "Power Leak" attribute that is similar to a signature radius, in that a higher caliber nos cant pull off full power from a ship whose leak is smaller than a similar attibute on that nos module. Lets just say frigates have a leak of 8MW ( or whatever ), and a heavy nos has a "leech" of 100 MW and pulls 100 cap per 12 sec (is that right?). So if we calculate that out: (8MW/100MW)100 cap per cycle = 8 cap per cycle. So we can go with these sizes: Heavy Nos = 100MW of leech Medium Nos = 50MW of leech Small Nos = 8MW of leech Battleships = 100 leak Bruisers = 75 leak Cruisers = 50 leak Destoyers = 16 leak Frigates = 8 leak Heavy on cruiser = (50MW/100MW)100 = 50 cap. Heavy on bruiser = (75MW/100MW)100 = 75 cap. Heavy destroyer = (16MW/100MW)100 = 16 cap. Heavy frig: Look up. Heavy Bs = (100MW/100MW)100 = 100 Med on cruiser = (50MW/50MW)30 = 30 cap Med on destroyer = (16MW/50MW)30 = 9.6 cap Med on frigate = (8MW/50MW)30 = 4.8 cap Lets assume that (ship leak/Nos leech)<1. Without limitations firgates would nos the living heck out of destroyers and above. This might need some balancing, infact im sure it does (cruiser vs frig SUX!) Edit: Fixed the top. Clicked new topic and not reply :P. ------------------------------------ My Opinions in no way reflect those of other members of ADVANCED Combat and Engineering.
Ryo Jang Central Defiance Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.11.22 22:35:00 - [2] but then a small nos drawing from a frigate would take 100cap per cycle. battleships would always have a small nos to counter inties and cap death then instantly. so nothing much will change.
IHaveTenFingers Caldari ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2006.11.22 22:38:00 - [3] Originally by: Ryo Jang but then a small nos drawing from a frigate would take 100cap per cycle. battleships would always have a small nos to counter inties and cap death then instantly. so nothing much will change. No, sir. Frigates have 8 leak, small nos has 8 leech and 8 cap per cycle. (8MW/8MW)*8cap = 8 cap. I was using 100 cap for heavy nos only, since thats teh tech 1 base transfer amount. ------------------------------------ My Opinions in no way reflect those of other members of ADVANCED Combat and Engineering.
Tetovo Caldari Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.22 23:22:00 - [4] Edited by: Tetovo on 22/11/2006 23:22:59 It's kind of like the sig radius idea, and I like it. It helps smaller ships, but we still have problems with 4 nos/4 guns setup, perhaps we need to add some sort of penalty for more than 1 nos on a ship(curse/pilgrim/bhaalgorn get a role bonus to nullify this). Perhaps we could introduce modules to make your leak smaller/increase your opponents leak.
Aphotic Raven	Posted - 2006.11.23 06:24:00 - [5] just shut up... curse is perhaps over powered... the rest are fine.. then again curse is a t2 cruiser so it has to have some good points.
Quilan Ziller Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2006.11.23 08:01:00 - [6] I guess it is just no use for me to even bother replying to this topic... But NOS are FINE. Even after HP increase - because cap was also increased, and injectors have been buffed. Please just leave NOS alone - and learn to adapt and plan. They take a lot of powergrid to fit, and they don't suck out all that much cap all that quickly. They waste high power slots. Range of even the large NOS is reasonably limited (25 km or less). Just look at their stats. You are NOT supposed to be easily killing battleships in your assault frigs. A BS should be able to utterly ruin you if you choose to attack alone, and NOS is the perfect tool for the job. You are supposed to engage in teamwork, and use some strategic planning (like staying out of range, maybe... or fitting your own NOS for tackling like I always do in my frig setups). If NOS are significantly nerfed, EVE will just turn into your basic slugfest. Thickest plate and bigger guns FTW. You just orbit your enemy at 500 m, and press F1-F2-F3-F4. That simple. While we are at it, let's also nerf drones and missiles. And completely eliminate all electronic warfare modules, since they are totally overpowered. Then everyone will be able to slug away in peace. Sorry, just could not resist. All of these undrainable cap, or slow drain suggestions basically make NOS useless as a defensive module - and make HACs and AFs a completely unbalanced class of ships with their built-in tank and fast tracking, accurate, and damaging guns. For the record: I fly AFs and cruisers myself. ______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.23 10:33:00 - [7] Edited by: infraX on 23/11/2006 10:37:24 Try not to confuse the issues. There are two schools of thought with nos: 1) Bigger nos against a smaller target is overpowered because it more or less takes all their cap instantly and should be nerfed by sig radius method or similar. 2) Fitting a full rack of heavy nos and perhaps a neut on a bs makes it overpowered against other battleships with energy using weapons because fights are more than long enough for the nos ship to tank the dps until the target is out of cap or at least capped out on the injector. These topics should be discussed seperately because although they are both calling for a nerf to nos, the reasons are different and presumably the methods for doing so are different aswell. The biggest issue that has come up in Kali is point number 2. The first point has always been an issue (if you consider it an issue at all) but the second is very much due to Kali creating longer fights that indirectly buff nos by allowing more time for it to drain more cap and indirectly nerf energy weapons by forcing them to operate for longer and therefore using more cap in the same fight. The devs have tried to remedy point number 2 by increasing base cap and decreasing booster charge size. Increasing base cap might allow a ship to run its guns for a whole 30 seconds longer but that's all, and it's not proportional to the length in which fights have been increased due to the changes so does not solve the problem. Decreasing booster charge size just helps all ships equally because it means they can hold more charges, it does not help energy using weapon ships to inject faster or prevent them from capping out half way though a fight and then struggling to keep everything running, even if they had another 1000 charges to fire.
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.23 10:40:00 - [8] Making Nos depend on sig radius would just be another way of making everything work the same and be boring. I don't think nos is overpowered against small ships. The cycle time of heavy nos is so long, if you are in a frigate and have 1 or 2 small nos, you can keep tackling mods on forever. If on top you're caldari or minmatar you can even continue shooting. I liked the idea with the cap batteries adding undrainable cap tho. Would finally make sense to use batteries. Forsch Defender of the empire Can't wait for the oomph!
Marsha11 Bad Karma.	Posted - 2006.11.23 10:44:00 - [9] Thats actually the best idea for a nos change i have seen. I dont really think Nos needs changing but this thread caught my eye because its actually not a bad way to fix the issues people have with them. It also doesn't make Nos useless and they become a nicely balanced module. Nos will still have good effect on all ships but cruisers and frigs cannot be rendered useless with one cycle of a heavy nos from one ship... At the same time with the cap increase and recharge rate increase i think things should be ok after Kali. If Nos still seem 'over powered' then this change should be seriously considered as the answer if its what the majority of EVE want. End
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.24 17:00:00 - [10] Interesting, I approve of this messege!



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