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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1421
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 06:34:48 -
[121] - Quote
Kirra Tarren wrote:ITT: Really bad, hard of thinking, over-entitled cry babies who refuse to adapt
You made a typo, I fixed it. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1030
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 06:34:57 -
[122] - Quote
hey Risalo, I'm still waiting for you to show me a "competetent player". whassup? You posting useless wall of text instead, |
Mark Hadden
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
40
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 08:46:32 -
[123] - Quote
simple solution.
NPC shouldnt aggro a player inside a plex who isnt either shooting the rats by himself or assisting a player who does or has rat aggro already. That way CCP would finally achieve their envisioned goal of making PvE "entertaining and challenging", like they pretended for Retribution AI changes and finally fix PvP encounters in anomalies and complexes. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
759
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 09:46:18 -
[124] - Quote
Kirra Tarren wrote:ITT: People get mugged in the street, someone comes to save them, they team up with the mugger to punch the rescuer in the face. And everyone thinks it's completely normal behavior.
That might be the case with Sansha's Nation. It's not with the other groups. These arennt Joe average citizen looking to be safe and snug in their beds. This is a massive terrorist organization, or a conglomerate of pirates, or a fanatical nihilistic cult, all of whom are in the middle of doing bad things to good people when the ratter shows up and starts shooting. Then another capsuleer shows up and starts using even more dangerous weaponry on the first, making short work of the first guy. The rats don't want either party in their little piece of vacuum, and go after the one who is using the more dangerous weapons in the hopes that the ratting capsuleer will be weak enough to flee or be destroyed when that fight is done.
That's only if you really need logic. I like to logic, but I still have delusions of EvE being an RPG like it claims to be. I have also not often witnessed the aggro staying that stable even in the face of ewar and remote reps more than a few minutes before they pick new targets, usually my drones or me. It's why I quit using drones and got into mauraders, that stuff is just annoying. Admittedly I have not tried it with screams or disruptors in a while. |
Mark Hadden
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
40
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 09:54:25 -
[125] - Quote
NPC engaging someone who is siding with them and help to kill the agressor doesnt make any sense. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1421
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 10:28:14 -
[126] - Quote
Mark Hadden wrote:NPC engaging someone who is siding with them and help to kill the agressor doesnt make any sense.
Because no-one in the history of eve has ganked another player to steal their sig and then whipped the pirates back and forth, killing their overseer, for their own gain instead, right?
Nah, that never happens. |
Mark Hadden
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
40
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 10:47:39 -
[127] - Quote
afkalt wrote:
Because no-one in the history of eve has ganked another player to steal their sig and then whipped the pirates back and forth, killing their overseer, for their own gain instead, right?
Nah, that never happens.
it doesnt make sense, regardless of how you spin it. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1421
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 11:08:52 -
[128] - Quote
Frankly, it's not about sense, none of it makes sense.
What it comes down to is using appropriate tools for the job, Those that do, get on just fine. Those who do not, well apparently they cry on the forums.
/shrug. |
Mark Hadden
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
40
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 11:31:45 -
[129] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Frankly, it's not about sense, none of it makes sense.
What it comes down to is using appropriate tools for the job, Those that do, get on just fine. Those who do not, well apparently they cry on the forums.
/shrug.
point made is that you cant realistically do it anymore with the "right tool".
Right tool is too heavy and slow. You will get baited/camped and killed very quickly, without scoring anything because you need a nano/fast/quick ship to catch a ratter - who you cant take down eventually due to broken rat aggro mechanics - you got the idea.
This whole pvp activity of solo stalking ratters is gone, thats the point. CCP nerfed it into oblivion unintentionally by "improving" PvE and making it "challenging and interesting", breaking PvP - thats why we complain. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1421
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 11:35:46 -
[130] - Quote
"Oh noes there is risk" is what I'm hearing here.
>>This whole pvp activity of stalking ratters is gone
Citation needed. |
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Mark Hadden
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
40
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 11:40:58 -
[131] - Quote
I'm not complaining about risk, risk is everywhere I dont mind loosing ships. But there shouldnt be so much risk and so much effort for little gain that the whole thing turns into a time waste, which it is today, you can describe it as "gone", because noone would/is be doing that anymore. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
815
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 14:14:57 -
[132] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:hey Risalo, I'm still waiting for you to show me a "competetent player". whassup? You posting useless wall of text instead,
that would be because it's not my job to teach you how to play.
As far as my "wall of text"
At least I provided an idea that would address the issue, as opposed to your tears of hate and lack of a solution. |
Mark Hadden
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
44
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 14:40:19 -
[133] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:hey Risalo, I'm still waiting for you to show me a "competetent player". whassup? You posting useless wall of text instead, that would be because it's not my job to teach you how to play.
isnt it more likely that you simply cant back up your claims? Seems obvious. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
815
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 14:52:20 -
[134] - Quote
Mark Hadden wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:hey Risalo, I'm still waiting for you to show me a "competetent player". whassup? You posting useless wall of text instead, that would be because it's not my job to teach you how to play. isnt it more likely that you simply cant back up your claims? Seems obvious.
Laziness does not prove lack of probability.
This Guy did it without even having rats there to help him...
Y'all keep complaining about the NPCs...There are people that catch them in sites, and there are those that catch them out of sites...
If you can't catch them in the site, drop a bubble...
Seems like the whole problem is that y'all can no longer rely on the added DPS of the NPCs, which y'all need in order to kill someone. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1030
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 15:03:34 -
[135] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Laziness does not prove lack of probability. This Guy did it without even having rats there to help him... Y'all keep complaining about the NPCs...There are people that catch them in sites, and there are those that catch them out of sites... you wasnt asked to link random kills, I wouldnt need you for that. I asked you to show me a "competent player" and has a recent history of ganking people in 0.0 sites using heavy ships (like that zealot for example). Unfortunately, there is no NPC on mail, so I assume he wasnt in a site, was afk or whatever, which this thread is absolutely not about.
Joe Risalo wrote: If you can't catch them in the site, drop a bubble...
Seems like the whole problem is that y'all can no longer rely on the added DPS of the NPCs, which y'all need in order to kill someone.
totally off topic. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
816
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 15:18:42 -
[136] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:Laziness does not prove lack of probability. This Guy did it without even having rats there to help him... Y'all keep complaining about the NPCs...There are people that catch them in sites, and there are those that catch them out of sites... you wasnt asked to link random kills, I wouldnt need you for that. I asked you to show me a "competent player" who has a recent history of ganking people in 0.0 sites using heavy ships (like that zealot for example). Unfortunately, there is no NPC on mail, so I assume he wasnt in a site, was afk or whatever, which this thread is absolutely not about. Joe Risalo wrote: If you can't catch them in the site, drop a bubble...
Seems like the whole problem is that y'all can no longer rely on the added DPS of the NPCs, which y'all need in order to kill someone.
totally off topic.
Quit making excuses for you being a bad player and/or not wanting to risk a ship worth more than 50mil. As far as the kill I linked, it was the solo kill of a ratting ship. It doesn't need to be supported by NPCs, as it shows the kills are possible when they come out of site, after they kill the rats, or on their way to site. If YOU can't kill them in site (because you don't want to risk isk) than catch them out of site; Or can you not beat them without the NPCs?
As far as the rest of my earlier comment, it's completely ON topic, as kills with the assistance of NPCs is what you've been crying about this whole time. You seem to be under the belief that you should have ratter kills handed to you on a silver platter.
If you feel you should be able to kill him with an untanked bomber, (thus risking less isk) then he should be able to clear these sites with a bomber.. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1030
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 15:36:40 -
[137] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote: Quit making excuses for you being a bad player and/or not wanting to risk a ship worth more than 50mil. As far as the kill I linked, it was the solo kill of a ratting ship.
I'm not making excuses but still waiting for you to back up your original claim. Solo kill of a ratting ship is not hard if its not in a site, thats the entire topic and discussion of this thread, in case you forgot.
Joe Risalo wrote: It doesn't need to be supported by NPCs, as it shows the kills are possible when they come out of site, after they kill the rats, or on their way to site. If YOU can't kill them in site (because you don't want to risk isk) than catch them out of site; Or can you not beat them without the NPCs?
again, off topic. killing ratter is not a big deal itself, just when he's in a site. And no, usually, they dont warp to gates or whatsoever but straight to POS or station, where you have no chance of catching them.
Joe Risalo wrote: As far as the rest of my earlier comment, it's completely ON topic, as kills with the assistance of NPCs is what you've been crying about this whole time. You seem to be under the belief that you should have ratter kills handed to you on a silver platter.
off topic, the sole question which is still open right at the moment is your original claim to be backed up. (see posting #106)
Joe Risalo wrote: If you feel you should be able to kill him with an untanked bomber, (thus risking less isk) then he should be able to clear these sites with a bomber..
off topic, irrelevant. Stop derailing. I primarily want that one thing clarified first before we go onto the next. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
817
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 15:50:58 -
[138] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Joe Risalo wrote: Quit making excuses for you being a bad player and/or not wanting to risk a ship worth more than 50mil. As far as the kill I linked, it was the solo kill of a ratting ship.
I'm not making excuses but still waiting for you to back up your original claim. Solo kill of a ratting ship is not hard if its not in a site, thats the entire topic and discussion of this thread, in case you missed it. Joe Risalo wrote: It doesn't need to be supported by NPCs, as it shows the kills are possible when they come out of site, after they kill the rats, or on their way to site. If YOU can't kill them in site (because you don't want to risk isk) than catch them out of site; Or can you not beat them without the NPCs?
again, off topic. killing ratter is not a big deal itself, just when he's in a site. And no, usually, they dont warp to gates or whatsoever but straight to POS or station, where you have no chance of catching it. Joe Risalo wrote: As far as the rest of my earlier comment, it's completely ON topic, as kills with the assistance of NPCs is what you've been crying about this whole time. You seem to be under the belief that you should have ratter kills handed to you on a silver platter.
off topic, the sole question which is still open right at the moment is your original claim to be backed up. Joe Risalo wrote: If you feel you should be able to kill him with an untanked bomber, (thus risking less isk) then he should be able to clear these sites with a bomber..
off topic, irrelevant. Stop derailing.
I probably shouldn't reply to this, as it seems you're trolling at this rate, but here we go.
It's not up to me to find the KMs because i'm not trying to get the kills. You're the one that wants the kill, so it's up to you to figure it out.
It's also not up to me to provide evidence, as I am not proposing the idea. It's up to you to convince use and CCP on why it needs to change. So far, all you have managed to do is convince us that you can cry and stomp your feet like a 4 year old when things aren't exactly how you want them.
I'm going to tell you the same thing i tell my 7 and 5 year old daughters when they can't figure something out. Calm down, think about it, and find another way...
I'm sorry, but daddy can't be here to help you out all the time. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1030
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 16:08:44 -
[139] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote: It's not up to me to find the KMs because i'm not trying to get the kills. You're the one that wants the kill, so it's up to you to figure it out.
you did a statement which you still failed to back up. I did a claim that the profession is dead which I can hadrly prove like its usually hard to prove absense of something (killmails). You, on the other hand, should be very able to provide a proper proof if your statement is true.
Joe Risalo wrote:It's also not up to me to provide evidence, as I am not proposing the idea. It's up to you to convince use and CCP on why it needs to change. no, you dont need to provide evidence about anything you say, it just makes you look like a fool if you dont, like in this instance.
Joe Risalo wrote: So far, all you have managed to do is convince us that you can cry and stomp your feet like a 4 year old when things aren't exactly how you want them.
I'm going to tell you the same thing i tell my 7 and 5 year old daughters when they can't figure something out. Calm down, think about it, and find another way....
maybe you should learn to admit inconvenient truth and save your face, instead of trying to derail discussion with offtopic speak, unbelieveable that I'm in a conversation with an adult who apparently got 2 children, I hope they dont take a leaf of you in this regard.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
817
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 17:30:35 -
[140] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Joe Risalo wrote: It's not up to me to find the KMs because i'm not trying to get the kills. You're the one that wants the kill, so it's up to you to figure it out.
you did a statement which you still failed to back up. I did a claim that the profession is dead which I can hadrly prove like its usually hard to prove absense of something (killmails). You, on the other hand, should be very able to provide a proper proof if your statement is true. Joe Risalo wrote:It's also not up to me to provide evidence, as I am not proposing the idea. It's up to you to convince use and CCP on why it needs to change. no, you dont need to provide evidence about anything you say, it just makes you look like a fool if you dont, like in this instance. Joe Risalo wrote: So far, all you have managed to do is convince us that you can cry and stomp your feet like a 4 year old when things aren't exactly how you want them.
I'm going to tell you the same thing i tell my 7 and 5 year old daughters when they can't figure something out. Calm down, think about it, and find another way....
maybe you should learn to admit inconvenient truth and save your face, instead of trying to derail discussion with offtopic speak, unbelieveable that I'm in a conversation with an adult who apparently got 2 children, I hope they dont take a leaf of you in this regard.
You're saying the profession is dead... It is not dead, it is just adapted to different tactics, hence the KM I linked.
As far as my children, I tell them things like what I mentioned in hopes that they don't turn out to be like certain people that think they should have things easy and handed to them on a silver platter.
Myself and many other have provided evidence and strategy advice that is an adaptation of the profession. You said yourself that the kills are possible outside of the sites, yet you refuse to attempt this tactic as it's too risky for you. You need the NPCs to help you, so you demand that the NPCs help you. You even stated in one comment that the NPCs could warp out for all you care, yet you continue to say that the NPCs are the problem... If you can handle the kill without the NPCs, then why is this thread all about the NPCs? Wait until they're dead, put a bubble between their POS and their location. Do something besides sitting here complaining.
You don't seem to believe that you're in a conversation with an adult because you refuse to accept my or anyone else's point on the topic. The last time I had a conversation like this, it was with a 7 year old that was kicking and screaming because she couldn't find the TV remote and didn't want to look for it.
This is exactly what you're doing, only it's about a KM and not a TV remote.
As I said to my 7 year old, find the remote or get over it and don't watch TV. In your case, find another way to get the kills or get over it and quit.
This will be my last comment in this thread so that it can die as it needs to... Hit me up when I can have your stuff, because I get the feeling this will never change in your favor... |
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1030
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 19:01:10 -
[141] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote: You're saying the profession is dead... It is not dead, it is just adapted to different tactics, hence the KM I linked.
adapted to what?? Just because you found some random killmails? No. Roaming still happen and people still die, yes, but for solo hunters the profession is dead because it requires heavy gear, you simply cant field in depths of hostile space, nor would it allow you to be fast enough. Linking random killmails doesnt help.
Joe Risalo wrote: Myself and many other have provided evidence and strategy advice that is an adaptation of the profession. You said yourself that the kills are possible outside of the sites, yet you refuse to attempt this tactic as it's too risky for you.
noone provided any evidence. yes outside of sites its possible, always was but its an entirely different thing. The slim chance of catching a dude randomly on gate off guard has always been there, but again, a completely different story!
Joe Risalo wrote: You need the NPCs to help you, so you demand that the NPCs help you. You even stated in one comment that the NPCs could warp out for all you care, yet you continue to say that the NPCs are the problem... If you can handle the kill without the NPCs, then why is this thread all about the NPCs?
because its a NPC related issue, this is why we have this thread and we complain about NPC, obvious, no?
Joe Risalo wrote: Wait until they're dead, put a bubble between their POS and their location. Do something besides sitting here complaining.
lol, wait until they die. its not how it worked. PvEer wont happily keep ratting with you in local, never have, apparently you have no idea about the matter. This thread is about how broken the NPC is in sites, not about any other sort of strategy. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
764
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 08:20:24 -
[142] - Quote
This thread is about how broken your gankbear tactics were, nothing else.
Activity: hunt ratting players on their home ground.
That should not be trivial. You want it to be trivial so you can polish your epeen with ships exponentially more expensive than anything you would risk yourself.
You lost this fight years ago. Suck it up, Buttercup. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1030
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 08:33:09 -
[143] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:This thread is about how broken your gankbear tactics were, nothing else.
Activity: hunt ratting players on their home ground.
That should not be trivial. You want it to be trivial so you can polish your epeen with ships exponentially more expensive than anything you would risk yourself.
You lost this fight years ago. Suck it up, Buttercup.
This thread is about broken rat aggro. it should be viable and realistically doable, which I cant see now with the broken AI, profession is dead atm. AI changes should be reverted back to 2013 level. |
HiddenPorpoise
Expendable Miscreants
365
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 11:21:22 -
[144] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:This thread is about broken rat aggro. it should be viable and realistically doable, which I cant see now with the broken AI, profession is dead atm. AI changes should be reverted back to 2013 level. If it were dead people wouldn't attack me in my sites so often, nor I in theirs. Yes, let's make rats remarkably stupid again so that it's way easier to kill people and for no other reason. We can all return to napping in rattlesnakes and domis too. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
765
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 11:33:02 -
[145] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:This thread is about how broken your gankbear tactics were, nothing else.
Activity: hunt ratting players on their home ground.
That should not be trivial. You want it to be trivial so you can polish your epeen with ships exponentially more expensive than anything you would risk yourself.
You lost this fight years ago. Suck it up, Buttercup. This thread is about broken rat aggro. it should be viable and realistically doable, which I cant see now with the broken AI, profession is dead atm. AI changes should be reverted back to 2013 level.
The profession isn't dead, just doing it in throw away cans.
Seriously, people get hunted all the time. Shiny ships go boom to ships that cost half or a third as much constantly. It may not be worth it to you, but you appear to be almost completely risk adverse yourself. At least the fatter undocked in a ship worth ISK to do his thing. You want to cry because you can't kill him in a t1 frig. |
Samuel Wess
Torin Industries Happy Cartel
82
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 12:44:18 -
[146] - Quote
It's a fix to protect ratters. AI was stealth modified that NPC do not shoot drones in some anomalies so the semi-afk ratting is also possible. This is an unfair advantage provided to a certain category of players.
Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1030
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 19:33:10 -
[147] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:This thread is about broken rat aggro. it should be viable and realistically doable, which I cant see now with the broken AI, profession is dead atm. AI changes should be reverted back to 2013 level. If it were dead people wouldn't attack me in my sites so often, nor I in theirs. Yes, let's make rats remarkably stupid again so that it's way easier to kill people and for no other reason. We can all return to napping in rattlesnakes and domis too.
rats are still stupid, but game breaking. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1030
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 19:35:22 -
[148] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:The profession isn't dead, just doing it in throw away cans.
Seriously, people get hunted all the time. Shiny ships go boom to ships that cost half or a third as much constantly. It may not be worth it to you, but you appear to be almost completely risk adverse yourself. At least the fatter undocked in a ship worth ISK to do his thing. You want to cry because you can't kill him in a t1 frig. noone could do it in T1 frigs and even if, then he deserved the kill. T1 frig is not really hard to kill, really.
The profession of solo roaming for ratters is dead. Yes, you can still gank them via cyno or forming roaming gangs, yes, but thats not the topic of this thread. |
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