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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
50658
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Posted - 2015.06.23 02:09:13 -
[211] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:By the way, I agree with the OP.
DMC, the OP doesn't even agree with his initial post anymore. He already acknowledged that it was made while he was still emotional following the gank. He's kind of totally turned around and sees the positive aspect of learning from this now. His attitude is great and if we all had his attitude, the relevance of CODE and other ganking groups would be significantly less than it is. They don't have power in this game because they take it. They have it because lots of people give it to them. Yeah about the OP, it's simply amazing to see a majority of people all gang up and sway the viewpoint of a single person.
As for the relevance of CODE and other ganking groups, I still stand by my original statement in my previous reply.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11518
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Posted - 2015.06.23 02:20:15 -
[212] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: Yeah about the OP, it's simply amazing to see a majority of people all gang up and sway the viewpoint of a single person.
This is the power of delusion. A group of people telling a guy how the situation he have voluntarily chosen to take part in (EVE Online) actually works is somehow 'ganging up' on someone. The guy in question showed great maturity in demonstrating he understood the folly of his original emotional outburst. You could learn something from him.
You won't of course.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10217
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:01:56 -
[213] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Despite what most everyone else is saying, the issue they all have missed is the fact that a group of players have made it their mission in game to discriminate, harass and grief others who engage in a specific type of play-style. Definitely goes against the ToS. Yeah, I said it and I stand by my statement. By the way, I agree with the OP. DMC *grabs some popcorn and prepares to be amused*
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:11:36 -
[214] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote: Yeah about the OP, it's simply amazing to see a majority of people all gang up and sway the viewpoint of a single person.
This is the power of delusion. A group of people telling a guy how the situation he have voluntarily chosen to take part in (EVE Online) actually works is somehow 'ganging up' on someone. The guy in question showed great maturity in demonstrating he understood the folly of his original emotional outburst. You could learn something from him. You won't of course.
There is nothing to learn in there except the obvious lesson that ganking is free, ******-proof easy, and as such, will be the activity of choice for everyone who couldn't do anything else in eve, until rightfully nerfed.
In the meantime eve is going to bleed subs with every stupid griefing act of suicide wanking.
Remove free catalyst from the gank setups. Remove tags-for-sec from the gankers. Remove 0-skill requirement of N+1 ganking. And there we go, ganking which actually requires brain, execution, and has a cost, instead of bringing 32 alts in catalysts and overkilling everything while salivating the area in process of rolling face on keyboard. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
38509
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:21:35 -
[215] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Remove free catalyst from the gank setups. Remove tags-for-sec from the gankers. Remove 0-skill requirement of N+1 ganking. And there we go, ganking which actually requires brain, execution, and has a cost, instead of bringing 32 alts in catalysts and overkilling everything while salivating the area in process of rolling face on keyboard. If ganking currently requires no brain, what does that say for the people that get ganked?
Surely an activity so simple as to be for people who've failed everything else, should be trivially easy to avoid. Why are there so many successful ganks?
AFK I can understand. There's clearly not a brain even present at all. Maybe that would help. If people engaged their brain or even just had it at the computer, there would be fewer successful ganks.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:49:01 -
[216] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:If ganking currently requires no brain, what does that say for the people that get ganked? Ganking is unescapable, uncounterable, and the whole notion that you won't be ganked if you carry less is the same kind of stupid as as claiming you won't be robbed if you put less money in your wallet and put it on display.
Scipio Artelius wrote:Surely an activity so simple as to be for people who've failed everything else, should be trivially easy to avoid. Why are there so many successful ganks? Scouting does not avoid ganking because all you see is neutral alst. Even if you see a gank party, there is still no way around it, so you have to dive into it and be ganked. Webbing never worked because if you're scanned and decided to be worth, your webber will be blapped anyway. Autopilot or not, genius or not, gank is unavoidable, free, and ******-proof.
Scipio Artelius wrote:AFK I can understand. There's clearly not a brain even present at all. Maybe that would help. If people engaged their brain or even just had it at the computer, there would be fewer successful ganks. Oh great brain, show me the counter to bumping... what, you can't? Then screw off, dumbface. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
38511
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:56:37 -
[217] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Oh great brain, show me the counter to bumping... what, you can't? Then screw off, dumbface. Jump Freighter. Works perfectly everytime.
Aside from that, there is a tonne of information out there on how to minimise the risk of bumping - scouting ahead, not freighting when machs are on your intended route, webbing alts and minimising cargo all work.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1668
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:04:55 -
[218] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Remove 0-skill requirement of N+1 ganking. That would remove 99% of all pvp combat, not just ganking.
Who put the goat in there?
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:09:19 -
[219] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:Oh great brain, show me the counter to bumping... what, you can't? Then screw off, dumbface. Jump Freighter. Works perfectly everytime. Aside from that, there is a tonne of information out there on how to minimise the risk of bumping - scouting ahead, not freighting when machs are on your intended route, webbing alts and minimising cargo all work. Ganks are only unavoidable for the people who don't engage their brain.
Jump Freighter takes years to train into, and doesn't make ganks impossible, just harder. 32 catalysts would still easily overpower it, and chain tackle would work too.
But ok, let's say it "counters" dumb bumping (at insane cost of jump freighter and year of training), despite not actually countering anything because you have to jump out and not haul, what can people without JF do? Scouting ahead does next to nothing, all you're going to see is neutral alts, even imbeciles would keep their mach and gank alts logged off. Webbing does nothing except adding a loss of webber to loss of freighter. Minimising cargo never worked, even empty freighters are ganked, since ganking in catalysts is free, nobody is bothered about the cost.
The only counter to gank is "not freighting" aka "not playing eve". Great counter! |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11521
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:09:42 -
[220] - Quote
Shederov Blood wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:Remove 0-skill requirement of N+1 ganking. That would remove 99% of all pvp combat, not just ganking.
Which would be considered a bonus to the kinds of people you are talking to lol.
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:12:01 -
[221] - Quote
Shederov Blood wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:Remove 0-skill requirement of N+1 ganking. That would remove 99% of all pvp combat, not just ganking. There are ways to do it without affecting PvP. Just make CONCORD react faster when there's 10 criminal acts on the same grid, viola, stacking catalysts en masse doesn't work anymore, PvP not affected. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
38512
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:13:43 -
[222] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Jump Freighter takes years to train into, and doesn't make ganks impossible, just harder. 32 catalysts would still easily overpower it, and chain tackle would work too. What? lol
You asked for a counter to bumping. JFs are a 100% counter to bumping.
Ganks against jump freighters are impossible if the JF pilot is smart.
Haha in relation to logged off machs. If they are logged off and you have a webbing alt, then nothing at all to worry about. By the time they are logged in and warped back to gate, you're gone.
But your trolling is quite entertaining. Perfect motivation for gankers to do what they do because it' s also so effective as the tears some of them look for.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11521
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:19:56 -
[223] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:Oh great brain, show me the counter to bumping... what, you can't? Then screw off, dumbface. Jump Freighter. Works perfectly everytime. Aside from that, there is a tonne of information out there on how to minimise the risk of bumping - scouting ahead, not freighting when machs are on your intended route, webbing alts and minimising cargo all work. Ganks are only unavoidable for the people who don't engage their brain. Jump Freighter takes years to train into, and doesn't make ganks impossible, just harder. 32 catalysts would still easily overpower it, and chain tackle would work too. But ok, let's say it "counters" dumb bumping (at insane cost of jump freighter and year of training), what can people without JF do? Scouting ahead does next to nothing, all you're going to see is neutral alts, even imbeciles would keep their mach and gank alts logged off. Webbing does nothing except adding a loss of webber to loss of freighter. Minimising cargo never worked, even empty freighters are ganked, since ganking in catalysts is free, nobody is bothered about the cost. The only counter to gank is "not freighting" aka "not playing eve". Great counter!
Sigh.
This is what happens when you have a "professional victim" playing a video game. They spend soooo much time being a victim (and then bypassing common sense and individual responsibility in favor or running straight to the highest available authority crying for "fixes") that very simple and OBVIOUS solutions...
... Like using a Jump Freighter in LOW SEC to Jump AROUND high sec thus preventing gank squads from even getting on to the same grid with you.
That's the problem with high sec, it doesn't foster the kind of creative sense the other 87% of EVE (that isn't high sec) does, it's safety creates helpless victims.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
38512
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:29:16 -
[224] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:... Like using a Jump Freighter in LOW SEC to Jump AROUND high sec thus preventing gank squads from even getting on to the same grid with you. If you are smart, you don't even need to jump around highsec, though that works perfectly fine too. The 90% reduction in fatigue makes it possible to chain jumps together without too much hassle.
My industry alt does the Stacmon -> Dodixie -> Jita and return run twice a week.
I just put a cyno alt in Yvangier waiting on station to be lit if needed. Yvangier can be jumped to from every single system along that run (all her jump skills are at level IV). So if there was ever any problem, I would light the cyno and jump. Gone within a few seconds even before any issue starts.
She does Stacmon->Amarr and Dodixie->Hek runs (I jump directly into lowsec on that run and then warp back out to highsec). No matter what route there is through highsec, there's always a good lowsec system to stage a cyno alt.
I've never had to do it on the Jita run (I usually jump back into Hevrice on the way back and from there into Syndicate, avoiding all the trouble gank systems), because all of the other methods work perfectly too.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:44:18 -
[225] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:You asked for a counter to bumping. JFs are a 100% counter to bumping. Except you haul nothing in process of "countering" which is half-counter at best. Gankers won't let you haul, gankers win.
Scipio Artelius wrote:Ganks against jump freighters are impossible if the JF pilot is smart. Neutral tackle, **** party lands, ganked. No counter.
Scipio Artelius wrote:Haha in relation to logged off machs. If they are logged off and you have a webbing alt, then nothing at all to worry about. By the time they are logged in and warped back to gate, you're gone. Neutral alts blap the webber, then proceed to the freighter.
Scipio Artelius wrote:But your trolling is quite entertaining. Perfect motivation for gankers to do what they do because it's also so effective as the tears some of them look for. Being a nullbear at the moment and knowing that the only coutner to ganking is to never get near hisec, extracting any tears from me is highly unlikely. |
Violet Crumble
Funtime Factory
740
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:50:27 -
[226] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:You asked for a counter to bumping. JFs are a 100% counter to bumping. Except you haul nothing in process of "countering" which is half-counter at best. Gankers won't let you haul, gankers win. I'm Scipio's industry alt. I haul stuff all the time. Never had a single problem.
If I ever had to jump out to Yvangier on the Stacmon-Jita run, then I can either:
1. warp from there to a highsec exit (Charmerout) and continue, or 2. move my cyno alt and make a second jump before continuing.
I jumped into Tama once (my butt was quite clenched) and then warped to Nourvakaiken gate because the route out from Syndicate via Reblier and then to Jita is much shorter than via Dastryns->Stacmon. Only did it the once, but it is quite possible to totally avoid bumpers and gankers in a JF and the train into them is not all that long.
They don't carry as much as a regular freighter and cost more, but just depends on how you want to manage risk.
Funtime Factory - We put the fun back in funtime
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
50658
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 04:53:49 -
[227] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote: Yeah about the OP, it's simply amazing to see a majority of people all gang up and sway the viewpoint of a single person.
This is the power of delusion. A group of people telling a guy how the situation he have voluntarily chosen to take part in (EVE Online) actually works is somehow 'ganging up' on someone. The guy in question showed great maturity in demonstrating he understood the folly of his original emotional outburst. You could learn something from him. You won't of course. Don't know why you resort to doing a personal attack and try to demean me other than to incite rage.
Reported as such.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3933
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Posted - 2015.06.23 06:18:16 -
[228] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Despite what most everyone else is saying, the issue they all have missed is the fact that a group of players have made it their mission in game to discriminate, harass and grief others who engage in a specific type of play-style. Definitely goes against the ToS. Yeah, I said it and I stand by my statement. By the way, I agree with the OP. DMC Please explain how gankers are 'violating the TOS' when CCP has made it clear ganking in and of itself is perfectly acceptable. That's just one example, let's not forget that study that was presented at fanfest either.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1187
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Posted - 2015.06.23 06:46:41 -
[229] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:You asked for a counter to bumping. JFs are a 100% counter to bumping. Except you haul nothing in process of "countering" which is half-counter at best. Gankers won't let you haul, gankers win. Scipio Artelius wrote:Ganks against jump freighters are impossible if the JF pilot is smart. Neutral tackle, **** party lands, ganked. No counter. Scipio Artelius wrote:Haha in relation to logged off machs. If they are logged off and you have a webbing alt, then nothing at all to worry about. By the time they are logged in and warped back to gate, you're gone. Neutral alts blap the webber, then proceed to the freighter. Scipio Artelius wrote:But your trolling is quite entertaining. Perfect motivation for gankers to do what they do because it's also so effective as the tears some of them look for. Being a nullbear at the moment and knowing that the only coutner to ganking is to never get near hisec, extracting any tears from me is highly unlikely. It takes ~20 people to kill a freighter. I am sure if you bring only half the people as an escort with your freighter you will probably counter the gank easily. I think this is very unbalanced and ganking should get a huge buff to straighten the playing field.
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2015.06.23 06:52:38 -
[230] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:It takes ~20 people to kill a freighter. I am sure if you bring only half the people as an escort with your freighter you will probably counter the gank easily. I think this is very unbalanced and ganking should get a huge buff to straighten the playing field.
Tried that. ECM just requires bringing 2-3 extra free catalyst pilots. Same with any kind of firepower, in the timeframe of 17 seconds it's difficult to kill more than 2 catalysts. Same with any kind of logictics, no countering that much dps against a vessel with pretty much derp resists.
Worst of all, all those ships are also gankable, even easier than freighter, and some cost more than entire gank party on free catalysts. You're just feeding gankers extra, it's anti-counter. |
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1187
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Posted - 2015.06.23 06:55:20 -
[231] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:It takes ~20 people to kill a freighter. I am sure if you bring only half the people as an escort with your freighter you will probably counter the gank easily. I think this is very unbalanced and ganking should get a huge buff to straighten the playing field. Tried that. ECM just requires bringing 2-3 extra free catalyst pilots. Same with any kind of firepower, in the timeframe of 17 seconds it's difficult to kill more than 2 catalysts. Same with any kind of logictics, no countering that much dps against a vessel with pretty much derp resists. Worst of all, all those ships are also gankable, even easier than freighter, and some cost more than entire gank party on free catalysts. You're just feeding gankers extra, it's anti-counter. You got a fleet of ~10 in your escort and you still lost a freighter? There are a gazillion tactics I really wont tell you (bad for business) that come to my mind how you could counter a gank with such an escort...
Maybe you are just bad at the game?
the Code ALWAYS wins
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
50658
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Posted - 2015.06.23 07:12:12 -
[232] - Quote
Azda Ja wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Despite what most everyone else is saying, the issue they all have missed is the fact that a group of players have made it their mission in game to discriminate, harass and grief others who engage in a specific type of play-style. Definitely goes against the ToS. Yeah, I said it and I stand by my statement. By the way, I agree with the OP. DMC Please explain how gankers are 'violating the TOS' when CCP has made it clear ganking in and of itself is perfectly acceptable. That's just one example, let's not forget that study that was presented at fanfest either. Guess you're too lazy to read the ToS.
Quote:3. You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies
4. You may not use GÇ£role-playingGÇ¥ as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player.You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy.
As for Falcon's fail post in that thread, he tried to justify Concord game mechanics by comparing it with real life Law Enforcement Agency's. Obviously he doesn't know how Law Enforcement works or he wouldn't have stated :
Quote:CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police force they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive. That statement may be true in a sense whereas a criminal may get away with committing a crime the first few times but in real life they are soon hunted down, incarcerated and or put to death.
Anyway, nice try at using that as an example for justification.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Josef Djugashvilis
2963
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Posted - 2015.06.23 07:16:11 -
[233] - Quote
Dear op, welcome to Eve Online.
Learn from it and move on.
This is not a signature.
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3934
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Posted - 2015.06.23 07:24:20 -
[234] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Guess you're too lazy to read the ToS. Quote:3. You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies
4. You may not use GÇ£role-playingGÇ¥ as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player.You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy. As for Falcon's fail post in that thread, he tried to justify Concord game mechanics by comparing it with real life Law Enforcement Agency's. Obviously he doesn't know how Law Enforcement works or he wouldn't have stated : Quote:CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police force they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive. That statement may be true in a sense whereas a criminal may get away with committing a crime the first few times but in real life they are soon hunted down, incarcerated and or put to death. Anyway, nice try at using that as precedent. DMC I'm sorry, let me get this straight. You're of the opinion that gankers are operating as a hate group equal to racist bigotry? You actually think they hate you and the people they gank? If they were a hate group, they would be targeting you and your 'group' in an actually relevant context, not by blowing up your spaceship in a game that prides itself on the frequency of explosions. Do you feel you are the target of a hate crime when you land and one someone else's Boardwalk in Monopoly? Get some perspective man.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1190
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Posted - 2015.06.23 07:26:20 -
[235] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:YOU R ALL EBIL!! Calm down miner! Miners are not en ethnic minority or anything else that is covered under the stuff you cited.
This is a game about exploding spaceships. Exploding someoneGÇÖs spaceship is not a violation of the TOS, that would be pretty silly. We also don't follow individual miners around and harass them, we just randomly kill of Code violators in the systems we are currently patrolling. Unlike the anti-ganking crowd who is following us around all over Highsec and tries to harass us as much as they can (they try, but they always fail, because they are bad at EVE).
If you don't like how EVE works and that some player may explode your spaceship if you don't care enough to protect yourself then maybe play something else that better fits your expectations of a game you enjoy.
the Code ALWAYS wins
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HoruSeth
Republic University Minmatar Republic
790
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Posted - 2015.06.23 07:28:30 -
[236] - Quote
Finn McCoul wrote:Over 2 billion in losses which our corp simply canGÇÖt afford to replace.
Your corp not! But when I see your char and your gold pod killmail I am sure you can. And you have flown the freighter, so it was your mistake.
From my perspective the solution is clear. Pay back to your corp what you lost for them.
Keep Smile and Kill, You can not wave them all!
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Hades Evilbrood
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.23 07:38:10 -
[237] - Quote
Oh god I am so happy I am on your KM (with alts). Cry more and give me your stuff, if you still have something.
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Pixie Tickle
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
107
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Posted - 2015.06.23 08:15:46 -
[238] - Quote
DMC trollin really hard right now!
Of course gankers are attacking a minority! All these poor victims need to get some protection from all the evil in this and every other world! Suicide gankers are everywhere! In every system there's someone watching people are compliant to whatever these evil tyrants want to dictate onto all these sad helpless toonies! To change this issue they should just all stop playing and posting! That'll send a clear message and suddenly no one creates any content anymore and the mineral market will slowly dry out! No one gets any ships anymore and gankers can fly around tryin to shoot people in their pods!
DOWN WITH THE EVIL!
I keep forgettin to sign my posts.
- Pixie Tickle
I'm the distraction.
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Anthar Thebess
1099
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Posted - 2015.06.23 08:22:25 -
[239] - Quote
How after 2 years of playing eve 2bil is all what your corp have? Why are you still in higsec? I assume that you know - you cannot moon mine in higsec.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Crimson Nirnroots
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2015.06.23 09:14:59 -
[240] - Quote
Every time I read "Calm down, Miner" in a thread I laugh out loud. I find it never gets old for me. It's the little things that add up and make this game amazing. Finn learning from this event, and participating in this discussion so positively is PFGreat, too.
Antimatter, now with more Nirnroots.
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