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Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.26 05:02:00 - [61] Edited by: Krulla on 26/11/2006 05:02:49 Originally by: Draconia Blackheart Originally by: Noomee No it's not... Are you saying that if I'm attacked by a fleet of pirates with ships that clearly outmatch mine in such a way I wouldn't even have time to lock on them before being destroyed, that I should NOT log-off and watch them destroy my very expensive ship and lose my precious cargo just because it's "not fair" for them that I log-out or it's being a "coward"? If you can do it without using hacks, then I don't see how it can be considered cheating. It's rather smart and wise... "Live to fight another day" you know... Yes, the people here expect you to let yourself be blown up..dont try argueing or debating...play your game the way YOU want to play it and screw these people, THEY aren't paying your monthly sub! IMHO the can call me a wuss, a coward and a sinner..I could care less Are you insane? Or just very, very, very thick and full of yourself? It's not about saving your ship. IT'S ABOUT SAVING YOUR SHIP USING A CHEAT; CCP HAS STATED NUMEROUS TIMES THAT THEY CONSIDER LOGGING OFF A EXPLOIT, BUT CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. Wether you like the playstyle or not has nothing to do with this. THIS IS A CHEAT. CHEATING IS BAD. Also, you seem to take this game a bit too personally. I suggest you find a new hobby for a while.
Romeda	Posted - 2006.11.26 05:06:00 - [62] sigh You really can't force people to stay logged in, I know that these log off tactics are pretty stupid, but really PvP'ers must you really find things to moan about? Today it's nerf ctrl+q and tomorrow it's another anit-WTZ post. Yes these tactics are stupid and dumb, I've never used them and never came across anybody else who has used them, but you already have loads of ships that are geared for PvP not to mention the mods and whole areas of space that are lawless, and new PvP features coming in Kail, there is soo much I can't list it all. So some panicked n00b in a Raven logs off and you get your pants in a twist? Things don't seem all that bad.
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.26 05:13:00 - [63] No matter what you do to escape from pirates they will cry & cry about it. This morning I lead a gang off to hunt down a couple of pirates that have caused my corp frequent troubles. One logged and one perma-docked in a low-sec station. Of course if we used either of those tactics to save our hides they would throw such a huge fit as to how we were exploiting.
Romeda	Posted - 2006.11.26 05:14:00 - [64] Originally by: Krulla Edited by: Krulla on 26/11/2006 05:02:49 Originally by: Draconia Blackheart Originally by: Noomee No it's not... Are you saying that if I'm attacked by a fleet of pirates with ships that clearly outmatch mine in such a way I wouldn't even have time to lock on them before being destroyed, that I should NOT log-off and watch them destroy my very expensive ship and lose my precious cargo just because it's "not fair" for them that I log-out or it's being a "coward"? If you can do it without using hacks, then I don't see how it can be considered cheating. It's rather smart and wise... "Live to fight another day" you know... Yes, the people here expect you to let yourself be blown up..dont try argueing or debating...play your game the way YOU want to play it and screw these people, THEY aren't paying your monthly sub! IMHO the can call me a wuss, a coward and a sinner..I could care less Are you insane? Or just very, very, very thick and full of yourself? It's not about saving your ship. IT'S ABOUT SAVING YOUR SHIP USING A CHEAT; CCP HAS STATED NUMEROUS TIMES THAT THEY CONSIDER LOGGING OFF A EXPLOIT, BUT CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. Wether you like the playstyle or not has nothing to do with this. THIS IS A CHEAT. CHEATING IS BAD. Also, you seem to take this game a bit too personally. I suggest you find a new hobby for a while. Is all that shouting really necessary? I've seen no Dev or GM say that pressing ctrl+q is a cheat, what happens if your client crashes during comabt? Or your computer crashes, that happens to me quite a bit, or even if you accidentally press ctrl+q? Does that make them all cheaters?
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.26 05:53:00 - [65] Edited by: Krulla on 26/11/2006 05:53:33 Originally by: Romeda Is all that shouting really necessary? I've seen no Dev or GM say that pressing ctrl+q is a cheat, what happens if your client crashes during comabt? Or your computer crashes, that happens to me quite a bit, or even if you accidentally press ctrl+q? Does that make them all cheaters? Yes, all the shouting is quite neccesary when dealing with someone as thick headed as Draconia Blackheart. All she thinks is "PIERAT BAAAD!". Even if she doesn't agree with a PvP playstyle, she should be able to see that using out of game methods to gain a advantage is cheating. And cheating is bad. No, logging off isn't cheating. Clients crash, connections get dropped, etc. But logging off to save your ship is a exploit. The devs have even stated it is. The only reason they aren't punishing people for logging off in combat is, because, as you say, you can't force people to stay logged on or, and they can't prove that it wasn't just a connection or computer problem. Logging is alright, using logging to your advantage is not.
anyname isfine	Posted - 2006.11.26 07:11:00 - [66] We had an individual war-dec us with a couple alts in order to pick off our haulers. His standard tactic is to log off when challenged in any way by something that can shoot back. How satisfying it was when he logged off while scrammed and lost that pretty T2 ship with all those T2 fittings. As an extra bonus he stopped shooting us while we killed him. When he logged on 5 minutes later it was in a clone bay. There is justice sometimes.
Zeke Novak	Posted - 2006.11.26 07:22:00 - [67] Quit your whining. If you want a 'clean', 'honorable' fight, then find people who actually want to fight. If you want to gank people not looking for a fight, then expect them to play 'dirty' and do what they need to to survive, and preserve the very real time investment they've made in getting their ship.
Noomee	Posted - 2006.11.26 07:37:00 - [68] Originally by: Zeke Novak Quit your whining. If you want a 'clean', 'honorable' fight, then find people who actually want to fight. If you want to gank people not looking for a fight, then expect them to play 'dirty' and do what they need to to survive, and preserve the very real time investment they've made in getting their ship. QFT! If the dev decide it's an exploit in any way, they will patch it... And for the record, they never said it was an exploit or a cheat. Some said they personally found it "cheap" and "annoying" to log out during a fight, but that's it. If you saw them say anything else, please give us a quote and a link.
DiuxDium Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.26 08:49:00 - [69] Originally by: Noomee Originally by: Zeke Novak Quit your whining. If you want a 'clean', 'honorable' fight, then find people who actually want to fight. If you want to gank people not looking for a fight, then expect them to play 'dirty' and do what they need to to survive, and preserve the very real time investment they've made in getting their ship. QFT! If the dev decide it's an exploit in any way, they will patch it... And for the record, they never said it was an exploit or a cheat. Some said they personally found it "cheap" and "annoying" to log out during a fight, but that's it. If you saw them say anything else, please give us a quote and a link. If a dev told me I was an annoying lamer, I'd catch a clue mate. The only real scum in this game are Ctrl+Q spammers. Feel free to quote that one. I hope with reckless abandon that this blatent exploit is patched soon. If you don't wish to PvP stay in high-sec. You want to protect your "Real time investment"? Stay out of low-sec. How's that? There's huge swaths of space dedicated to carebearing. Stay there, but if you come into lowsec, get in a fight, and log out when things arn't going your way. You're lower than **** mate. And that there's the truth.
Rurik Adelburn	Posted - 2006.11.26 09:21:00 - [70] Uhh yeah thats 1v1. When you play chess you dont fight 10 people and their rooks, towers queens etc. Chess is a fair game and is based on your personal skill not superior numbers. If i did have to play 10 people at once in chess i would definitly give up and kick the board. Your arguement is simply based on pvp or fleet combat and definitly doesnt hold ground in a gate camp. I just finished venting in another topic but i see ignorance runs quite rampant. Originally by: Crumplecorn Two people are sitting playing a game of chess (or any other board game of your choice). One is absolutely wtfpwning the other. When the latter realises this, he kicks the board over to forcibly end the game. When the former complains about this, the response from the latter is along the lines of: Originally by: Draconia Blackheart Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 25/11/2006 06:12:22 Wouldn't shame me.. The name of the game is 'not to die'... So its not honourable, well I was here (PvP'er). Until I saw what kind of 'honour' alot of people (LIKE YOU) have here if I read your post right... (Like some attacking a lone ship with a 5-7 ship pack, then smack-talking that I'M the coward for getting away.. ) If I get the chance I will disappear on you in a flash if it saves me the 4 hours its gonna take to rebuild my ship. Go play your violin to someone who cares, people have a big crow about 'whats right in Eve', like the dispicable act of attackin people in High-Sec comes to mind. You don't like it someone one got away from your super-gank..BOO HOO!! ..Deal with it!! The former then pulls out a handgun and empties it into the vital organs of the latter. At least, that's how it ends in my happy world.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.26 09:27:00 - [71] 50th time and i still never had a reply that really killed this idea : When you are targeted, and logoff, your ship doesnt warp out. at all. the ship will warp out when the lock stops When you login, you are at the logoff safespot, but you do NOT warp back at the spot you came from. you have a new safespot for free, right, but you cant do login tactics With those two : no logout tactics, no login tactics ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.26 09:53:00 - [72] Originally by: Krulla Are you insane? Or just very, very, very thick and full of yourself? Both! Actually Originally by: Krulla It's not about saving your ship. Funny I thought was..Silly me! Originally by: Krulla Wether you like the playstyle or not has nothing to do with this. THIS IS A CHEAT. CHEATING IS BAD. Tell you what..if people stop playing attacking a single ship with a pack, expecting people to just sit there and add to thier killboard. Have them fight honourably and fairly and I will to! (Waits for Hell to freeze over) Originally by: Krulla Also, you seem to take this game a bit too personally. I suggest you find a new hobby for a while. Excuse me, I can't seem to find your name on my credit card statement..can you point it out to me where you are paying for my Eve Account. The only advice I can give you is if you don't like me in YOUR world..YOU can always leave and find a new hobby for a while.. Have a Nice Day ---
rancmeat Minmatar Fly-By-Night Enterprises Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2006.11.26 10:42:00 - [73] Originally by: Splagada 50th time and i still never had a reply that really killed this idea : When you are targeted, and logoff, your ship doesnt warp out. at all. the ship will warp out when the lock stops I'd agree with the but for the fact I've had numerous client crashes and loss of connectivity while fighting NPCs. I've been much more lucky with PvP in that regard. When you crash to desktop it's nice to come back to a ship and not a pod. It's indeed a tough problem to solve. How do you differentiate between a system failure and an attempted exploit of the system that protects you from system failure?
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:09:00 - [74] Originally by: Rurik Adelburn Uhh yeah thats 1v1. When you play chess you dont fight 10 people and their rooks, towers queens etc. Chess is a fair game and is based on your personal skill not superior numbers. If i did have to play 10 people at once in chess i would definitly give up and kick the board. Your arguement is simply based on pvp or fleet combat and definitly doesnt hold ground in a gate camp. I just finished venting in another topic but i see ignorance runs quite rampant. what about "risk" then?? in this game it's quite possible to end up outnumbered (either by units under your control as well as by opponents you face). so is "risk" now a lame game to play?? ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Jelly Heed	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:23:00 - [75] Originally by: xeom Logoff is about the stupidest thing in EVE. CCP might as well add a little button on the left bar called "/non-pvp". no the stupidist thing in eve is sitting there watching all your hard work torn apart by someone who thinks stealing what you have worked for........fun you want spoil my fun a will return the compliment by spoiling yr's CTRL Q he turns and runs away lives to fight another day
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:24:00 - [76] Originally by: Jelly Heed no the stupidist thing in eve is sitting there watching all your hard work torn apart by someone who thinks stealing what you have worked for........fun you want spoil my fun a will return the compliment by spoiling yr's CTRL Q he turns and runs away lives to fight another day i thought you were playing a GAME ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Jelly Heed	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:33:00 - [77] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: Jelly Heed no the stupidist thing in eve is sitting there watching all your hard work torn apart by someone who thinks stealing what you have worked for........fun you want spoil my fun a will return the compliment by spoiling yr's CTRL Q he turns and runs away lives to fight another day i thought you were playing a GAME yes a game but you do av to put a bit of effort in and i personally dont want to see that effort torn apart by someone who wants to destroy that by killing me and my pod which lets face it has no value other then spite
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:08:00 - [78] Originally by: Jelly Heed yes a game but you do av to put a bit of effort in and i personally dont want to see that effort torn apart by someone who wants to destroy that by killing me and my pod which lets face it has no value other then spite Then EvE isn't the game for you. EvE is about PvP, wether you like it or not. I suggest you go play WoW or Everquest II.
Locarna Lustram	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:14:00 - [79] Originally by: Rurik Adelburn Uhh yeah thats 1v1. When you play chess you dont fight 10 people and their rooks, towers queens etc. Chess is a fair game You're not playing Chess; you're playing EVE. Perhaps I missed the part where it is stated that EVE is a fair game. Could you point me to it? Logging off is lame, and I refuse to do it. Gate camping is lame too and I won't do that either. If people want to admit to themselves that being lame is the only way they can play, then much I care. I win because I play and keep my self respect.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:23:00 - [80] The only thing the people who logs off is doing is destroying the game for people with bad connections. Why? Well it's obvious that CCP will fix this sooner or later and because of this abuse the fix will be much harsher than it would have otherwise been. So if you want to be able to log off at all in space in the future do yourself a favor and stop abusing this, otherwise we might end up with ships saying in space forever when logged off. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Romeda	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:27:00 - [81] Originally by: Krulla Edited by: Krulla on 26/11/2006 05:53:33 Originally by: Romeda Is all that shouting really necessary? I've seen no Dev or GM say that pressing ctrl+q is a cheat, what happens if your client crashes during comabt? Or your computer crashes, that happens to me quite a bit, or even if you accidentally press ctrl+q? Does that make them all cheaters? Yes, all the shouting is quite neccesary when dealing with someone as thick headed as Draconia Blackheart. All she thinks is "PIERAT BAAAD!". Even if she doesn't agree with a PvP playstyle, she should be able to see that using out of game methods to gain a advantage is cheating. And cheating is bad. No, logging off isn't cheating. Clients crash, connections get dropped, etc. But logging off to save your ship is a exploit. The devs have even stated it is. The only reason they aren't punishing people for logging off in combat is, because, as you say, you can't force people to stay logged on or, and they can't prove that it wasn't just a connection or computer problem. Logging is alright, using logging to your advantage is not. The out of game methods to gain a advantage you are talking of is a shortcut command called ctrl+q it's a keyboard command not "out of game method", besides EVE already has a PvP log off timer, I really don't see the huge problem here, but to call a keyboard shortcut command an exploit and shout abuse and insults at people is just making you look silly. Please less of the drama queen.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:38:00 - [82] Originally by: Lord Frost I know how to fix logging off.... simple... eh hem... ... any time someone logs off in space they get a menu of two options... 1. LOG OFF UNSAFE (threat in area), where ALL game mechanics get broken and you safely warp away. When you do this you get your ship out intact and at a safe spot. However, you lose ALL your cargo and mods. They get jetted at the point of logoff. Seems fair if you are logging to save yourself from dying. 2. LOG OFF SAFE (default and current mechanics) This option lets you log but ALL game mechanics hold for a 30 second timer. You take the risk of losing your ship. This is also the default from a CTD. I'll say it again, since you all seem to of missed it and are too caught up in whines and rants about eachother.
Illifae	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:52:00 - [83] I hate reading general. Nerf general! Anyway: Originally by: Rurik Adelburn Uhh yeah thats 1v1. When you play chess you dont fight 10 people and their rooks, towers queens etc. Chess is a fair game and is based on your personal skill not superior numbers. If i did have to play 10 people at once in chess i would definitly give up and kick the board. Your arguement is simply based on pvp or fleet combat and definitly doesnt hold ground in a gate camp. I just finished venting in another topic but i see ignorance runs quite rampant. The problem is that, when you play eve it's as if you agree to a semi-random chess draw influenced by other factors. You COULD end up facing ten grandmasters, very easily. Quite as easily you could be one of the 10 grandmasters, or 10 noobs, wouldn't make a difference whether they were masters or newbs at that stage. The thing is in playing eve you are agreeing that you might be in unfair situations; unfair situations that sometimes you can influence and avoid and mitigate but never completely. Logging is like agreeing to play in a random draw, then when it's unfair kicking over the chess tables and walking away. What you really need to do is mitigate your chances of this, accept some losses or get a few friends and make some payback. EVE is driven by conflict. Conflict takes place because of imbalances of power. No RL misery is caused by this conflict, unless you let it. If you let it that's unfortunate, but you're going to have to change your way of thinking or find another game, because you won't enjoy EVE like that. BTW gate campers can be very vulnerable to small gangs or prepared individuals, particularly when there are sentry guns involved.
Jelly Heed	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:59:00 - [84] Originally by: Krulla Originally by: Jelly Heed yes a game but you do av to put a bit of effort in and i personally dont want to see that effort torn apart by someone who wants to destroy that by killing me and my pod which lets face it has no value other then spite Then EvE isn't the game for you. EvE is about PvP, wether you like it or not. I suggest you go play WoW or Everquest II. no game is fine pvp is ok a choose to avoid it . i just dont want to play along with the pirates (lol) underhand tactics thats all.i get along in the game just fine and i dont have to resort to getting a gang together and pop the easiest target i can find.................. thats the way pirates (omg i wanna be a pretend pirate) wanna go about things fine but dont start moaning about unfair unsporting and dishonourable behavior thats just pathetic because the pirates (ffs what a bunch os d**ks) whole style of gameplay can only be desribed as unfair unsporting and totally dishonourable. CTRL and Q are not exploits. should i stay on 24 hours you wont play the game the way i want to play FINE. but dont expect me to play it your way!! as for suggesting what i should go and play i have a few suggestions for you but they wiil just get snip'd but i think you can work em out for yourself.......
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:01:00 - [85] Edited by: Plutoinum on 26/11/2006 16:01:43 Originally by: Romeda So some panicked n00b in a Raven logs off and you get your pants in a twist? Well, it isn't only the pancked n00b, who only does it, it's also people with hundred millions or billions in their wallet, people who live in 0.0 for months and years and pvp'ers. Logging off at the gates is most often not a panic reaction. The guy usually knows exactly, what he does and how it changes his odds. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:06:00 - [86] Originally by: Jelly Heed Originally by: Krulla Originally by: Jelly Heed yes a game but you do av to put a bit of effort in and i personally dont want to see that effort torn apart by someone who wants to destroy that by killing me and my pod which lets face it has no value other then spite Then EvE isn't the game for you. EvE is about PvP, wether you like it or not. I suggest you go play WoW or Everquest II. no game is fine pvp is ok a choose to avoid it . i just dont want to play along with the pirates (lol) underhand tactics thats all.i get along in the game just fine and i dont have to resort to getting a gang together and pop the easiest target i can find.................. thats the way pirates (omg i wanna be a pretend pirate) wanna go about things fine but dont start moaning about unfair unsporting and dishonourable behavior thats just pathetic because the pirates (ffs what a bunch os d*ks) whole style of gameplay can only be desribed as unfair unsporting and totally dishonourable. CTRL and Q are not exploits. should i stay on 24 hours you wont play the game the way i want to play FINE. but dont expect me to play it your way!! as for suggesting what i should go and play i have a few suggestions for you but they wiil just get snip'd but i think you can work em out for yourself....... You hear that? That's teh sound of the point I'm trying to make going right past your head. Logging off isn't a exploit. Logging off to avoid dying is. CCP are just powerless to prevent it. Warping to a safespot and then logging is fine. Docking and then logging is fine. Logging of at a gate when noone is attacking you is fine. Logging off after jumping into a gatecamp, thus warping off in 45 seconds no matter what the enemies do (If you log off before they agress, you will warp off no matter what) is not.* However, if you will knowingly cheat, as long as you know you won't get caught, then guess who is being a dishonorable idiot, you or the pirate?
Flinx Evenstar Momentum.	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:14:00 - [87] Well apart form the usual, "I can log off to save my yellow hide" spineless wonders in this thread My favourite post has to be from the actual pilot I frapsed. The very one that logged to save their virtual butt. Obviously too dumb to recognise their own ship, as they talk about others using lame tactics Oh the irony...well coward lady (thats a clue) you can probably just about make out your own name in the vid... Log off cowards like you just get added to address books and hunted more often Go back to empire if you want safety
Flinx Evenstar Momentum.	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:21:00 - [88] Originally by: Zeke Novak Quit your whining. If you want a 'clean', 'honorable' fight, then find people who actually want to fight. If you want to gank people not looking for a fight, then expect them to play 'dirty' and do what they need to to survive, and preserve the very real time investment they've made in getting their ship. No I dont want an clean honourable fight. I want to GANK log off cowards and pop their pods And you know what....I think I will. Logging doesnt work to save your "precious" ship everytime Dont fly what you cant afford to lose....and get some skills
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:27:00 - [89] Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 26/11/2006 16:28:48 jelly heed .. one question - did we play yesterday "risk" together?? edit: typo in names 4tl! ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Unfamed II FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:48:00 - [90] Edited by: Unfamed II on 26/11/2006 16:51:08 Im flying alone in my battleship thru 0.0 w00t. Then something happens: 1) I jump thru a gate 2) I see a hostile camp of around 7ppl or so (knowing they would pwn me, since im in npc fit) 3) Still cloaked, I exploit the logoff mechanism by pressing CTRL-Q 4) Having no aggression before, I log off. 5) At this point I'm no longer logged in game, my ship decloaks at the gate and hostiles start locking me (I dunno, im happily pouring myself some coffee, knowing I'll survive anyways) 6) Hostiles lock, scram, web and do all sorts of nasty things to me. I get no aggression timer because I'm not logged in. 7) Having a healthy buffer of HP's (even more in Kali, yay), my ship does just what that vid showed. poof gone. And not by getting destroyed. Spot the problem perhaps? You need to make aggrotimer to activate even if player is not logged in. Problem solved. Editski: And please add -500k SP penalty when being podded if you're logged off. No matter what kind of clone you have, luckily the game doesn't sell insurance for balls. Force ppl to grow them. Seriously, it's not that great being an amarr, is it?

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