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Remi Renaud
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 20:49:05 -
[1] - Quote
One of the things I love so much about pvp in Eve is that skill points aren't the final word in a fight, and that the right fit and tactics can occasionally tip the odds in my favor enough to win against characters with more skill points.
I've been using the below scramkiter fit with some success against brawling and kiting ships whenever I get the chance to dictate range, although going up against another scramkiter usually ends with me losing the dps race due to my low support skills.
[Incursus, Incursus - PvP] Emergency Damage Control I Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste 200mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates Gauss Field Balancer I
1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
125mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S 125mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S 125mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Hobgoblin I x1
I'm starting to get a fair idea of which T1 ships I can engage with a good chance of me winning, but every single faction ship I've gone up against has resulted in my ship being pulverized into space dust.
I'd like to ask the the pvp vets if there are any faction ships I can take on with the above fit, and what improvements I could make to increase my chances of winning (aside from waiting for my skills to train).
I'm hoping to start engaging and giving a good fight, rather than GTFO whenever a faction ship shows up on d-scan.
-Remi |
Syrilian
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
107
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:22:56 -
[2] - Quote
Remi Renaud wrote:One of the things I love so much about pvp in Eve is that skill points aren't the final word in a fight, and that the right fit and tactics can occasionally tip the odds in my favor enough to win against characters with more skill points.
I've been using the below scramkiter fit with some success against brawling and kiting ships whenever I get the chance to dictate range, although going up against another scramkiter usually ends with me losing the dps race due to my low support skills.
[Incursus, Incursus - PvP] Emergency Damage Control I Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste 200mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates Gauss Field Balancer I
1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
125mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S 125mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S 125mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Hobgoblin I x1
I'm starting to get a fair idea of which T1 ships I can engage with a good chance of me winning, but every single faction ship I've gone up against has resulted in my ship being pulverized into space dust.
I'd like to ask the the pvp vets if there are any faction ships I can take on with the above fit, and what improvements I could make to increase my chances of winning (aside from waiting for my skills to train).
I'm hoping to start engaging and giving a good fight, rather than GTFO whenever a faction ship shows up on d-scan.
-Remi
In my humble opinion, you won't be able to take many faction frigs until you can fit t2 guns and damage control. You won't have the DPS or the tank. Then again, I'm not awesome at PVP so what do I know?
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Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
162
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 23:17:32 -
[3] - Quote
Good concept but poor execution. For one, get rid of the plate. It slows you down and wastes PG you should be using for 150mm railguns. If you're going to scram kite the goal is to be fast and pull range so the tracking hit you take jumping from 125mm to 150mm will easily be offset by the DPS gain you pick up from the 150s, and you won't need to waste space on the locus rig (can replace it with a burst aerator rig for max effect). With those tweaks you can drop the DPS mod and free up a low slot for EANM, which will complement the Incursus armour boosting bonus. It will also allow you to drop the anti-explosive rig (which, again, will just slow you down) and replace that with another boosting rig that won't (nano pump). While we're on the topic of speed, use the slot the plate is taking up for an Overdrive and if you can shoehorn a T2 AB on there as well then you'll actually be fast enough to outpace most T1 ships, tanky enough to hang with faction frigs and have enough range and DPS to squish other scram kiters. |
Remi Renaud
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 02:51:39 -
[4] - Quote
Syrilian wrote: In my humble opinion, you won't be able to take many faction frigs until you can fit t2 guns and damage control. You won't have the DPS or the tank. Then again, I'm not awesome at PVP so what do I know?
Yeah, characters with more skillpoints than I do will always have an advantage over me. I'm just looking to see if there's anything I can do to be more competitive while waiting for my skills to train up. I appreciate the sentiment though.
Plato Forko wrote: Good concept but poor execution. For one, get rid of the plate. It slows you down and wastes PG you should be using for 150mm railguns. If you're going to scram kite the goal is to be fast and pull range so the tracking hit you take jumping from 125mm to 150mm will easily be offset by the DPS gain you pick up from the 150s, and you won't need to waste space on the locus rig (can replace it with a burst aerator rig for max effect). With those tweaks you can drop the DPS mod and free up a low slot for EANM, which will complement the Incursus armour boosting bonus. It will also allow you to drop the anti-explosive rig (which, again, will just slow you down) and replace that with another boosting rig that won't (nano pump). While we're on the topic of speed, use the slot the plate is taking up for an Overdrive and if you can shoehorn a T2 AB on there as well then you'll actually be fast enough to outpace most T1 ships, tanky enough to hang with faction frigs and have enough range and DPS to squish other scram kiters.
It's amazing how a few tweaks can make a large difference. Even with my limited skills, I now have an optimal of 8k over 7k, the same dps with greater alpha, 200m/s more speed, and while I have less effective hitpoints, my booster is also more effective.
Even if I can't take on faction ships, I'll be a lot more confident with this set up. Thanks for the tweaks.
-Remi |
wilgotna
Origin. Black Legion.
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 06:51:13 -
[5] - Quote
Remi Renaud wrote: I'm just looking to see if there's anything I can do to be more competitive while waiting for my skills to train up.
join a corp and get in on the gangbang. learn how to play while your skills train
i recommend gallente militia |
Mira Chieve
Star Kingdom of Manticore
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 09:18:48 -
[6] - Quote
Try a scram kiting Merlin. Ab+scram+two webs ftw. You will have a fair chance of killing short-ranged faction frigs.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/46598518/
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Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
127
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 09:53:37 -
[7] - Quote
Some t1s can take on certain faction frigs, but tbh, scram kite incursus isn't one of them. I really find the hull to be lackluster as of late. Poor range control (slow), sub bar dps with rails, only barely above average tank unless dual rep, which would make range control even worse and not really an option for anything except baiting some guy and wait for your friends to land on grid and blap him.
You lack the speed to control range against say a blaster comet or a ac firetail, lacks the tank and most of all the damage to take on rail comet, rocket hookbill, arty tail. Pretty much the only instances you could normally kill a faction frig with that is if you manage to land a scram on a full on kiter, like the typical slicer, and even then its dps might actually chew thruh you since you can't really mitigate any damage (his tracking > your tracking, if he's pulse fit).
If you like scram kiting (which is indeed a good idea for a low sp pilot), i suggest looking into a beam tormentor, it shares the disadvantages of the incursus (not a fast ship) but dishes out twice the damage, or a beam executioner, which loses some tank and damage for speed, or a dual web 2oo or 400 plate rocket kestrel (excellent range control and tank). The surprise merlin (2 webs) works good as well, but you either lose the scram if you go shield, or you have to go with armor tank (actually hilarous, laughing in the face of people loading emp ammo) Another legit option is the tristan, but there you need drone skills. It can be fit in a number of ways to fight inside scram range.
tl;dr beam rework made rail incursus irrelevant |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
699
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 11:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thermodynamics IV or V is the key to success (uphill). A frig fight is short usually not longer than 30s, so going all in with all weapons, reppers and AB pre-overheated (you may need to switch off the AB heat once in scram-kiting range) helps a lot. You will die/win before the heat becomes a problem, that's also why I prefer active reppers for solo frig PvP.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
644
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 13:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Remi Renaud wrote:Syrilian wrote: In my humble opinion, you won't be able to take many faction frigs until you can fit t2 guns and damage control. You won't have the DPS or the tank. Then again, I'm not awesome at PVP so what do I know?
Yeah, characters with more skillpoints than I do will always have an advantage over me. I'm just looking to see if there's anything I can do to be more competitive while waiting for my skills to train up. I appreciate the sentiment though. -Remi
This is a misnomer. They will not always have an advantage over you. For instance, once you have gotten mastery level 5 on that incursus, then you will be on a level playing field against anyone else who has "mastered" the incursus, is flying a similar fit, and basically has the same implants as you.
Bottomline: Once you have mastered a ship, the only difference between you and other players flying the same ship is what implants you use, your fit, boosters, and links. |
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
163
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 21:11:38 -
[10] - Quote
Remi Renaud wrote:It's amazing how a few tweaks can make a large difference. Even with my limited skills, I now have an optimal of 8k over 7k, the same dps with greater alpha, 200m/s more speed, and while I have less effective hitpoints, my booster is also more effective.
Even if I can't take on faction ships, I'll be a lot more confident with this set up. Thanks for the tweaks.
-Remi
np, hope it pays off |
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
458
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 15:52:08 -
[11] - Quote
Incursus bad.
Tristan good.
The hull tanked AAR brawler Tristan is about the best T1 frigate fit in existence right now. I can't post the fit right now but I'm sure half the people in this thread have it. |
Remi Renaud
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 15:38:16 -
[12] - Quote
I'm currently working towards getting good drone skills too, so a Tristan would probably be the next ship I'll try. I saw a Slicer run away from a Neut Tristan while roaming around null sec the other day, so it might give me an advantage over it if I can get it to come inside a plex on my terms.
I wish I could try the other hulls like the Merlin or Tormentor, but I'm working towards Gal Frigates V so it won't be for a while.
I'm not entirely sure how a hull-tanked ship gives me an edge though. Does it provide more dps?
-Remi |
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
204
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 16:06:17 -
[13] - Quote
Remi Renaud wrote:I'm currently working towards getting good drone skills too, so a Tristan would probably be the next ship I'll try. I saw a Slicer run away from a Neut Tristan while roaming around null sec the other day, so it might give me an advantage over it if I can get it to come inside a plex on my terms.
I wish I could try the other hulls like the Merlin or Tormentor, but I'm working towards Gal Frigates V so it won't be for a while.
I'm not entirely sure how a hull-tanked ship gives me an edge though. Does it provide more dps?
-Remi
The Hull tank is Omni-resist and you can buffer without a loss of speed. A SAAR can still operate, repp-ing your armour so that the grind through your hull HP is reduced. In some hull tank situations the hull buffer might just be big enough for your AAR to have time to reload for a 2nd cycle. Hull rigs do not affect speed either (other Armor rigs slow you down).
and of course the Gallente hulls have a higher natural hull hp than either shield or armour.
"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
460
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 17:24:14 -
[14] - Quote
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:Remi Renaud wrote:I'm currently working towards getting good drone skills too, so a Tristan would probably be the next ship I'll try. I saw a Slicer run away from a Neut Tristan while roaming around null sec the other day, so it might give me an advantage over it if I can get it to come inside a plex on my terms.
I wish I could try the other hulls like the Merlin or Tormentor, but I'm working towards Gal Frigates V so it won't be for a while.
I'm not entirely sure how a hull-tanked ship gives me an edge though. Does it provide more dps?
-Remi The Hull tank is Omni-resist and you can buffer without a loss of speed. A SAAR can still operate, repp-ing your armour so that the grind through your hull HP is reduced. In some hull tank situations the hull buffer might just be big enough for your AAR to have time to reload for a 2nd cycle. Hull rigs do not affect speed either (other Armor rigs slow you down). and of course the Gallente hulls have a higher natural hull hp than either shield or armour.
The standard Tristan fit looks something like this -
2x T2 ion blasters
T2 AB meta 3 scram/web
AAR, DCU II, Drone Damage Amp
Bulkhead rig +ù3
You may be able to fit a nos/neut or upgrade to neutrons.
Basically you get around 1400 hull hp with 60% omni resist + another 2k or so EHP gain from the ancillary repper. You have 100-120 DPS worth of drones so you can drive off kiters, and the blasters add another 80 or so DPS for brawling.
It's a nasty little boat with a wide engagement profile, you can also fit triple neuts in the highs to instantly shut down cap heavy boats or run a shield/mwd pure kite fit. No one knows what to expect from you until they're engaged.
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Remi Renaud
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 17:52:10 -
[15] - Quote
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:The Hull tank is Omni-resist and you can buffer without a loss of speed. A SAAR can still operate, repp-ing your armour so that the grind through your hull HP is reduced. In some hull tank situations the hull buffer might just be big enough for your AAR to have time to reload for a 2nd cycle. Hull rigs do not affect speed either (other Armor rigs slow you down).
and of course the Gallente hulls have a higher natural hull hp than either shield or armour. Demerius Xenocratus wrote:The standard Tristan fit looks something like this -
2x T2 ion blasters
T2 AB meta 3 scram/web
AAR, DCU II, Drone Damage Amp
Bulkhead rig +ù3
You may be able to fit a nos/neut or upgrade to neutrons.
Basically you get around 1400 hull hp with 60% omni resist + another 2k or so EHP gain from the ancillary repper. You have 100-120 DPS worth of drones so you can drive off kiters, and the blasters add another 80 or so DPS for brawling.
It's a nasty little boat with a wide engagement profile, you can also fit triple neuts in the highs to instantly shut down cap heavy boats or run a shield/mwd pure kite fit. No one knows what to expect from you until they're engaged. Stuff like this really should be stickied or at least compiled into a beginner's guide for pvp. Not just for the specific fits, but for being able to explain the principles of why it's an effective fit.
The railcursus has been getting stale to fly lately, but I think I'm gonna have a blast playing around with a Tristan.
Thanks for the great suggestions guys.
-Remi |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
461
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 18:38:12 -
[16] - Quote
Remi Renaud wrote:Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:The Hull tank is Omni-resist and you can buffer without a loss of speed. A SAAR can still operate, repp-ing your armour so that the grind through your hull HP is reduced. In some hull tank situations the hull buffer might just be big enough for your AAR to have time to reload for a 2nd cycle. Hull rigs do not affect speed either (other Armor rigs slow you down).
and of course the Gallente hulls have a higher natural hull hp than either shield or armour. Demerius Xenocratus wrote:The standard Tristan fit looks something like this -
2x T2 ion blasters
T2 AB meta 3 scram/web
AAR, DCU II, Drone Damage Amp
Bulkhead rig +ù3
You may be able to fit a nos/neut or upgrade to neutrons.
Basically you get around 1400 hull hp with 60% omni resist + another 2k or so EHP gain from the ancillary repper. You have 100-120 DPS worth of drones so you can drive off kiters, and the blasters add another 80 or so DPS for brawling.
It's a nasty little boat with a wide engagement profile, you can also fit triple neuts in the highs to instantly shut down cap heavy boats or run a shield/mwd pure kite fit. No one knows what to expect from you until they're engaged. Stuff like this really should be stickied or at least compiled into a beginner's guide for pvp. Not jusst for the specific fits, but for being able to explain the principles of why it's an effective fit. The railcursus has been getting stale to fly lately, but I think I'm gonna have a blast playing around with a Tristan. Thanks for the great suggestions guys. -Remi
Just remember - in the present state of balance in EVE, there is no such thing as a bad drone boat.
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
646
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 19:17:53 -
[17] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Remi Renaud wrote:Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:The Hull tank is Omni-resist and you can buffer without a loss of speed. A SAAR can still operate, repp-ing your armour so that the grind through your hull HP is reduced. In some hull tank situations the hull buffer might just be big enough for your AAR to have time to reload for a 2nd cycle. Hull rigs do not affect speed either (other Armor rigs slow you down).
and of course the Gallente hulls have a higher natural hull hp than either shield or armour. Demerius Xenocratus wrote:The standard Tristan fit looks something like this -
2x T2 ion blasters
T2 AB meta 3 scram/web
AAR, DCU II, Drone Damage Amp
Bulkhead rig +ù3
You may be able to fit a nos/neut or upgrade to neutrons.
Basically you get around 1400 hull hp with 60% omni resist + another 2k or so EHP gain from the ancillary repper. You have 100-120 DPS worth of drones so you can drive off kiters, and the blasters add another 80 or so DPS for brawling.
It's a nasty little boat with a wide engagement profile, you can also fit triple neuts in the highs to instantly shut down cap heavy boats or run a shield/mwd pure kite fit. No one knows what to expect from you until they're engaged. Stuff like this really should be stickied or at least compiled into a beginner's guide for pvp. Not jusst for the specific fits, but for being able to explain the principles of why it's an effective fit. The railcursus has been getting stale to fly lately, but I think I'm gonna have a blast playing around with a Tristan. Thanks for the great suggestions guys. -Remi Just remember - in the present state of balance in EVE, there is no such thing as a bad drone boat.
Oh? You didn't get the memo?
See: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=431058&find=unread |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
461
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 19:49:36 -
[18] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Remi Renaud wrote:Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:The Hull tank is Omni-resist and you can buffer without a loss of speed. A SAAR can still operate, repp-ing your armour so that the grind through your hull HP is reduced. In some hull tank situations the hull buffer might just be big enough for your AAR to have time to reload for a 2nd cycle. Hull rigs do not affect speed either (other Armor rigs slow you down).
and of course the Gallente hulls have a higher natural hull hp than either shield or armour. Demerius Xenocratus wrote:The standard Tristan fit looks something like this -
2x T2 ion blasters
T2 AB meta 3 scram/web
AAR, DCU II, Drone Damage Amp
Bulkhead rig +ù3
You may be able to fit a nos/neut or upgrade to neutrons.
Basically you get around 1400 hull hp with 60% omni resist + another 2k or so EHP gain from the ancillary repper. You have 100-120 DPS worth of drones so you can drive off kiters, and the blasters add another 80 or so DPS for brawling.
It's a nasty little boat with a wide engagement profile, you can also fit triple neuts in the highs to instantly shut down cap heavy boats or run a shield/mwd pure kite fit. No one knows what to expect from you until they're engaged. Stuff like this really should be stickied or at least compiled into a beginner's guide for pvp. Not jusst for the specific fits, but for being able to explain the principles of why it's an effective fit. The railcursus has been getting stale to fly lately, but I think I'm gonna have a blast playing around with a Tristan. Thanks for the great suggestions guys. -Remi Just remember - in the present state of balance in EVE, there is no such thing as a bad drone boat. Oh? You didn't get the memo? See: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=431058&find=unread
Oh lame. Why don't they just remove sentry range from the Ishtar?
DDA nerf and my beloved shield kite Ishtar is getting axed.
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Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
171
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 22:22:23 -
[19] - Quote
meh there's room for that on most drone boats afaik |
Arla Sarain
525
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 16:35:38 -
[20] - Quote
TL;DR 3% drone DPS blanket nerf for ships using TWO DDA IIs
Tragic. |
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
465
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 23:45:40 -
[21] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:TL;DR 3% drone DPS blanket nerf for ships using TWO DDA IIs Tragic.
Ishtar is trading a mid slot for another low. Bye bye shield kite-tar.
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Master Sergeant MacRobert
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
205
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 00:02:41 -
[22] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:TL;DR 3% drone DPS blanket nerf for ships using TWO DDA IIs Tragic. Ishtar is trading a mid slot for another low. Bye bye shield kite-tar.
Does this mean the Eos is the new Ishtar? It's late and I cannot remember if the Eos can even field Sentries but maybe they'll give the Heavies a buff soon?
"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
686
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 00:10:53 -
[23] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Remi Renaud wrote:Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:The Hull tank is Omni-resist and you can buffer without a loss of speed. A SAAR can still operate, repp-ing your armour so that the grind through your hull HP is reduced. In some hull tank situations the hull buffer might just be big enough for your AAR to have time to reload for a 2nd cycle. Hull rigs do not affect speed either (other Armor rigs slow you down).
and of course the Gallente hulls have a higher natural hull hp than either shield or armour. Demerius Xenocratus wrote:The standard Tristan fit looks something like this -
2x T2 ion blasters
T2 AB meta 3 scram/web
AAR, DCU II, Drone Damage Amp
Bulkhead rig +ù3
You may be able to fit a nos/neut or upgrade to neutrons.
Basically you get around 1400 hull hp with 60% omni resist + another 2k or so EHP gain from the ancillary repper. You have 100-120 DPS worth of drones so you can drive off kiters, and the blasters add another 80 or so DPS for brawling.
It's a nasty little boat with a wide engagement profile, you can also fit triple neuts in the highs to instantly shut down cap heavy boats or run a shield/mwd pure kite fit. No one knows what to expect from you until they're engaged. Stuff like this really should be stickied or at least compiled into a beginner's guide for pvp. Not jusst for the specific fits, but for being able to explain the principles of why it's an effective fit. The railcursus has been getting stale to fly lately, but I think I'm gonna have a blast playing around with a Tristan. Thanks for the great suggestions guys. -Remi Just remember - in the present state of balance in EVE, there is no such thing as a bad drone boat. Oh? You didn't get the memo? See: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=431058&find=unread
Muh entire fleet of tristans and algos. Well there goes my entire plexing/PVP fleet scattered all over the warzone.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2015.06.27 01:38:39 -
[24] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:TL;DR 3% drone DPS blanket nerf for ships using TWO DDA IIs Tragic. I've so missed real MMO 'they nerfed my stuff' threads. |
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