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ga'ia
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Posted - 2003.11.19 02:17:00 -
[31]
I tested the cap boosters they work good, only one problem, the large version takes HUGH amount of cargo. Pretty much impossible to have even 10x Cap Booster 800 if you don¦t have any cargo mods, and dont forget, that leaves no room for ammo... Suggestion; Decreased size to 30m3 per charge, alter the boosters accordingly. __________________________________________________________ |
ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.11.19 04:07:00 -
[32]
Well Cap Boosters are intended as a way for laser users to help compensate for their higher cap usage and they don't have to carry ammo so they could fill their entire hold with Cap Boosters.
Another thing to consider is that the 800s may be something intended more for titans like the extra large shield boosters. Sure you could use them but itÆs going to be prohibitive unless you are flying a titan. Looks to me like the 200s or 400s are the ones intended for battleships.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.11.19 12:35:00 -
[33]
Quote: Hence the reason I think it should be increased to 0.025m¦. That and it will make everything nice and symmetrical. :)
... Doh! I thought you wanted to decrease the size to 1/4 of the original size. ^^ 0.025 is probably impossible though, I don't think EVE supports 3+ decimals.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.11.19 12:39:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Jarjar on 19/11/2003 12:42:30 By the way.
* Cap booster charges need to be 1/2 of their current size. My Moa cargo hold: 5 cap booster 400 (200m3), 40 defenders, 270 AM M ammo, 23 cruise missiles. Less than 10m3 free. 20m3 / 400 charge (0.05/energy unit for them all) sounds fair to me. * We need BPs for them. All of them. Not 1000 BPs per system, but at least 50 BPs released in a few empire regions.
That includes at LEAST 400 energy charges, 200 and less are pretty useless even on cruisers. What kind are on the TQ market right now; 75 cap? :s
Edit: By the way, again... Frigate (small) cap boosters: 10m3 capacity, which means 1x200 or 2x100 cap charges. Cruiser (medium) cap boosters: 20m3 capacity, which means 1x400, 2x200 or 4x100 cap charges. Battleship (large) cap boosters: 40m3 capacity, which means 1x800, 2x400, 4x200 or 8x100 cap charges.
Sounds nice?
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.19 13:04:00 -
[35]
Quote: 0.025 is probably impossible though, I don't think EVE supports 3+ decimals.
It certainly does - just look at your weapon stats after a few damage mods. 2.47575...
free speech not allowed here |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.11.19 13:50:00 -
[36]
Quote:
Quote: 0.025 is probably impossible though, I don't think EVE supports 3+ decimals.
It certainly does - just look at your weapon stats after a few damage mods. 2.47575...
Yeah, but cargo? Oh well.
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Babar
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Posted - 2003.11.19 14:14:00 -
[37]
Quote: Well Cap Boosters are intended as a way for laser users to help compensate for their higher cap usage and they don't have to carry ammo so they could fill their entire hold with Cap Boosters.
Yeah. I really feel for those poor ammo users who need half their cargo bay filled with ammo for a couple of minutes pvp...
Fact is, cap boosters are equally usable/unusable (depending on the situation) for everyone, regardless of weapon choice. Or maybe a tad better on ships with many mid slots.
This change is not a fix for the excessive cap usage on lasers.
Don't get me wrong here, though, I'm not against the boost. People may actually start using these now, and I think fewer useless modules is a good thing.
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ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.11.20 01:45:00 -
[38]
Edited by: ClawHammer III on 20/11/2003 01:46:53
Quote: Yeah. I really feel for those poor ammo users who need half their cargo bay filled with ammo for a couple of minutes pvp...
Well for Hybrid, Projectile and Missile users ammo is a necessity and not an assessory as Cap Boosters are. The energy that lasers feed on is constantly regenerated where as ammo is not so your comparison in that regard is somewhat flawed.
Quote: Fact is, cap boosters are equally usable/unusable (depending on the situation) for everyone, regardless of weapon choice. Or maybe a tad better on ships with many mid slots.
I was merely pointing out that they seem more appealing to laser users because they can afford to carry much more then people who use other weapons.
Quote: This change is not a fix for the excessive cap usage on lasers.
If you look at Cap Boosters from an energy boost per second stand point they are very effective. For example Cap Booster 400s in a standard heavy cap booster can boost your recharge rate by over 26 energy per second, which is a huge amount. In conjunction with a few cap relays you should have little problem sustaining fire with even Tachyons. The only problem is that you need to decide when to use them since you only have a finite supply of them.
I think the size of Cap Boosters should probably get reduced somewhat but not to the point where a large amount of Cap Booster 800s can be stored. 5 or 6 of them is equivalent to your average battleshipÆs capacitorà
Quote: Don't get me wrong here, though, I'm not against the boost. People may actually start using these now, and I think fewer useless modules is a good thing.
I fully agree with you on this point.
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Babar
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Posted - 2003.11.20 15:07:00 -
[39]
Quote: Edited by: ClawHammer III on 20/11/2003 01:46:53
Quote: Yeah. I really feel for those poor ammo users who need half their cargo bay filled with ammo for a couple of minutes pvp...
Well for Hybrid, Projectile and Missile users ammo is a necessity and not an assessory as Cap Boosters are. The energy that lasers feed on is constantly regenerated where as ammo is not so your comparison in that regard is somewhat flawed.
Quote: Fact is, cap boosters are equally usable/unusable (depending on the situation) for everyone, regardless of weapon choice. Or maybe a tad better on ships with many mid slots.
I was merely pointing out that they seem more appealing to laser users because they can afford to carry much more then people who use other weapons.
I'm saying you don't need a whole lot of ammo for pvp, which is wrong because laser users could keep shooting forever if they felt like it?
Quote:
Quote: This change is not a fix for the excessive cap usage on lasers.
If you look at Cap Boosters from an energy boost per second stand point they are very effective. For example Cap Booster 400s in a standard heavy cap booster can boost your recharge rate by over 26 energy per second, which is a huge amount. In conjunction with a few cap relays you should have little problem sustaining fire with even Tachyons. The only problem is that you need to decide when to use them since you only have a finite supply of them.
I think the size of Cap Boosters should probably get reduced somewhat but not to the point where a large amount of Cap Booster 800s can be stored. 5 or 6 of them is equivalent to your average battleshipÆs capacitorà
I'm not saying they aren't effective, my point is that they're equally useful for anyone.
If the 425mm outperforms tachyon in every respect, using less than half the cap, why fit lasers in the first place..?
No matter what they do to cap boosters, it just won't fix that imbalance.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.21 21:37:00 -
[40]
Quote: of course TomB rocks...have a look for yourself... TomB
I couldn¦t resist
Mai's Idealog |
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whejl
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Posted - 2003.11.26 09:02:00 -
[41]
This is nice! I have tested several times on chaos, and this is something i will use on TQ when avalible. It gives a nice boost of power. Some shrink in size of the charges would be nice, the argument relating to ammo taking a lot of cargo is not very relevant, you dont need thousands of ammo for a pvp fight.
Missiles is another thing, they have long range and no tracking disadvantage, and do more damage than any gun. |
TomB
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Posted - 2003.11.27 00:02:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Quote: of course TomB rocks...have a look for yourself... TomB
I couldn¦t resist
stop using that quote
"Where is my hat?" |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.27 14:36:00 -
[43]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 27/11/2003 14:36:41 [kidding]I wasn¦t aware of the fact that you don¦t like it TomB Now that I¦m aware if it I will simply continue to use it until you fix the ship class balance.[/kidding]
[serious] Please, it¦s a major annoyance having to fly around with battleships all the time. You know... many people in EvE love frigates just like me. For me personally and for quite a few people in my corp it¦s becoming increasingly hard to press that login button. You know... EvE just isn¦t fun when you can¦t fly the ships you¦ve been waiting to fly for over 2 years. We love the frigs and really... it¦s a shame that they aren¦t of any use.
So please if you read this, think about priorities. Shipclass balance is much more important than anything in the game so share some love and at least visit the thread linked in my sig below. [/serious]
Mai's Idealog |
TomB
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Posted - 2003.11.27 17:16:00 -
[44]
Quote: [serious] Please, it¦s a major annoyance having to fly around with battleships all the time. You know... many people in EvE love frigates just like me. For me personally and for quite a few people in my corp it¦s becoming increasingly hard to press that login button. You know... EvE just isn¦t fun when you can¦t fly the ships you¦ve been waiting to fly for over 2 years. We love the frigs and really... it¦s a shame that they aren¦t of any use.
So please if you read this, think about priorities. Shipclass balance is much more important than anything in the game so share some love and at least visit the thread linked in my sig below. [/serious]
[serious] Changes to targeting speed will most likely hit chaos next week: Changes to Targeting Speed - and new ships have been under construction for quite some time[/serious]
"Where is my hat?" |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.27 17:55:00 -
[45]
Thanks
*points at the link to the thread in her sig again before leaving happily*
Mai's Idealog |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.28 23:46:00 -
[46]
Cannot see how that will improve things, though. Even if a BS would need to target a frig for 2 minutes - what would stop it to just fire 4 FoF cruise right away?
free speech not allowed here |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.29 00:19:00 -
[47]
defender missiles
Mai's Idealog |
ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.11.29 03:17:00 -
[48]
Defenders are crap agaisnt cruise missles, especialy at close range.
Even if they wern't crap, frigates don't have enough launcher slots to defend agaisn't that many FoF cruise and maintain any offence.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.29 14:08:00 -
[49]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 29/11/2003 14:11:30 Defender missiles do work. If they don¦t work for you then you¦re simply not using them right.
There¦s one point tho:
Cruise missiles and torps should have a really hard time hitting frigates because of their low agility. Especially the torps shouldn¦t really be able to hit frigs IMO.
Heavies and light missiles, yes, but Torps and CM? No... not really
Mai's Idealog |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.30 01:03:00 -
[50]
He never said that they do not work, just that a frig with 1-2 launchers with defenders will have a hard time countering volleys of 4 FoF.
free speech not allowed here |
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.30 17:56:00 -
[51]
Quote: He never said that they do not work, just that a frig with 1-2 launchers with defenders will have a hard time countering volleys of 4 FoF.
But that¦s not a problem, it¦s a tactical fact you¦ll have to deal with.
1 frigate can¦t defend against the 4 FoF, but the moment where that 1 frig blows up is the moment where the other 4 frigs are already orbiting. No fight without losses, No.1 rule in combat... you have to deal with it.
But I still think we both agree that Cruise missiles and torpedoes shouldn¦t really be able to effectively hit frigate, right?
Mai's Idealog |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.30 19:22:00 -
[52]
Quote: 1 frigate can¦t defend against the 4 FoF, but the moment where that 1 frig blows up is the moment where the other 4 frigs are already orbiting. No fight without losses, No.1 rule in combat... you have to deal with it.
So what? Does that make them invulnerable to additional FoF?
Quote: But I still think we both agree that Cruise missiles and torpedoes shouldn¦t really be able to effectively hit frigate, right?
Torps definatly, cruise.. They should have a chance to hit.
But I fear we won't see that. Some time ago, when the missles were beefed up people, including me, complained that torps were WAY too agile. The bugged nanofibers were still in at that time and I had a ultra-high agi BS on chaos, flew some pretty extreme curves, screws, 180¦ turns, etc, was of no use.
The answer of TomB to that was that with the current EVE physics engine it was impossible to reduce their agility suffeciently without reducing their speed to a minimum.
So, perhaps if torps are 200ms they cannot hit frigs. But they won't hit anything else as well, because they will long destroyed by defenders or smartbombs before they hit.
free speech not allowed here |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.30 21:07:00 -
[53]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 30/11/2003 21:09:06
Quote: So what? Does that make them invulnerable to additional FoF?
No, but their warpdrive does. They¦ll need to come back with more launchers in this case Another way would be the introduction of FoF-defendermissiles. That way the other frigs could help defending against the missiles.
That agility thing you¦re talking about is bad though... really bad
Mai's Idealog |
ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.12.01 07:35:00 -
[54]
Quote: Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 30/11/2003 21:09:06
Quote: So what? Does that make them invulnerable to additional FoF?
No, but their warpdrive does. They¦ll need to come back with more launchers in this case Another way would be the introduction of FoF-defendermissiles. That way the other frigs could help defending against the missiles.
That agility thing you¦re talking about is bad though... really bad
Uhh... any frigate with MWD won't have enough powergrid to pose any significant threat.
Anyway, taking down a battleship with frigates isnÆt very practical and I donÆt think it should be. I find the idea of a few 100k frigates taking out a 60M or more battleship to be a bit silly. It should be possible with no less then a very large squadron.
On the other hand, a few cruisers should defiantly be able to pose a significant threat to a battleship.
I think the key to the future of frigates lies in the hands of specialized frigates that are good at one thing and one thing only such as EW, missiles, turrets, drones, etc. That way they can play a complementary role in fleet combat. I believe this will be addressed in the Tech2 Castor patch so lets wait and see.
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.12.01 15:40:00 -
[55]
She was referring to the "normal" warpdrive. Meaning if they see that they are outgunned they will just warp away and come back with more defender launchers.
During which time the BS will just happily wait for them. of cource :p
free speech not allowed here |
TomB
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Posted - 2003.12.03 21:51:00 -
[56]
There will not be more changes to cap boosters for this patch, truly sorry but there are now bigger matters that I must attend to (targeting speed, jump in points, warping, camping etc.).
I will unstick this thread and open a new one in the future, if more tuning will be needed.
"Where is my hat?" |
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