Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 14:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/11/2006 14:22:36
1. Accept that cruise missiles, not torpedoes, are the long range weapons of Caldari, and that Torpedoes should be what Large Pulses are to Large Beams (cruise).
2. Make regular Torpedoes have medium range with skills (maybe 20km base, 40km with maxed skills).
3. Make Rage torpedoes have shorter range (maybe 10km base, 20km with maxed skills) and do more damage, perhaps 550 base. These are the equivalent of Conflagration L.
4. Make Javelin torpedoes have longer range (maybe 40km base, 80km with maxed skills) and do less damage, perhaps 380 base. These are the equivalent of Scorch L.
With these changes the Torpraven would be competitive DPS-wise with the autopest and Blasterthron at close range while being unable to do the same damage at very long ranges. It would also, unlike the current stats on SiSi, make Javelin torpedoes useful.
There could be penalties to the torpedoes, but they shouldn't be any more severe than those for Conflag and Scorch.
What do you think?
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Ms Tolarri
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 14:26:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ms Tolarri on 26/11/2006 14:25:55 OMFGTORPEDOS DONT NEED FIXING U NOOB OMG OMG
On a serious note - ftw!
|
Great Artista
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 14:27:00 -
[3]
Hell! Lets boost caldari a bit more!!
___________________________________ And I make lots of money, I make more money than you I drive around in my limo, that's what I was born to do And I might like you better if we ****** together. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 14:28:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Great Artista Hell! Lets boost caldari a bit more!!
So, making Torpedoes have crapola range is a boost?
I'd like to live in your universe.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Ammon Ishar
Monks of War
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 14:28:00 -
[5]
You don't consider one thing - laser (and another) weapon give damage instantly ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Might As well Train Another Race |
Chronus26
Gallente Dark Blood Contracts
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 14:46:00 -
[6]
As a heavy Torp user in PVP I say go for it, when im fighting in my raven im <20k anyway so it doesnt bother me. Torps would be fine limited to 40-50k range, and with Javelin hitting out to maybe 100-120 for less damage. ----- Move along, nothing to see here... |
Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 14:49:00 -
[7]
Alternative idea...
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Imperil
Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 14:59:00 -
[8]
Nah, I think Rage Torpedoes should be anti-Capital. :P
Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW! |
Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 15:51:00 -
[9]
Jav torps should have the same range as standard ones, with faster veloctiy but shorter travel time. Reduced damage is fine, but to be worth a **** they also need their increased precision back, either by having a lower base value, or (preferredly to me) by being affected by all the exp radius reducing goodies, (GMP, implants, rigs).
Also, damage rigs stacking with damage mods REALLY hurts torps badly. Standard fittings have 3 damage mods already, so damage rigs will do nothing much. And exp radius rigs do not affect torps while they are quite a boost to cruise missiles. No other rig gives a benefit anywhere close to that to torps, so essentially these rigs nerf torps compared to cruise. If damage rigs stacked independent of damage mods, both cruise and torps could be properly empowered. Same if exp radius rigs affected all torps, but I guess that would be too overpowered again for all the old Jav torp whiners. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
|
Kamen
SRBI Kith of Venal
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 16:07:00 -
[10]
Absolutely agree (with minor modifications)!
Well for one.. the range of torps has to be reduced ASAP in order to make it possible to balance toprs at all, buecuse you will get a truckload of whiners complaining about "Torp hit me at 80km and I couldn't do anything with my pulses!".
By agreeing to this "Range nerf", I also expect a "damage boost" that will actually increase torp damage to be comparable to that of other shortrange guns.
Also I would like the torp/cruise travel speed to be increased. Other races don't seem to have an "equivalent loss" by moving up from small to large weapons, and Caldari lose out on missle travel time. The small missles usually reach their target within seconds, but torps and cruises may take a minute almost, which makes them quite useless in most 0.0 PvP encounters.
|
|
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 16:57:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 26/11/2006 17:03:23
Problems for Caldari.
1) Mid-slots are for tanking.
2) Mid-slots cant afford speed mod.
3) Mid-slots cant afford tackling gears.
4) Too many must have are mid-slots.
Your blaster/autocannon/pulse range torpedo weapons will not work for Caldari because Caldari are shield tankers. It might work if all defensive armour and shield mods are low slots and Caldari have a make over.
Low - Defensive ship (hardeners, plates, extenders, armour reps, shield boosters, etc.) and ship enhancement mods (nanofibers, signal amps, etc.). Mid - Defensive anti-ship (EWAR, defenders, etc.) and ship enhancement mods (sensor boosters, tracking comps). High - Offensive anti-ship mods (guns and missiles).
A make over would help to solve some Caldari and Minmatar problems. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 17:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Imperil Nah, I think Rage Torpedoes should be anti-Capital. :P
And when you have a huginn with you, BS pwnage.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
Risien Drogonne
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 18:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/11/2006 14:31:57
The point of this idea is to make Torpedoes a short range weapon and nerf their range until Javelin appears to be actually useful.
1. Accept that cruise missiles, not torpedoes, are the long range weapons of Caldari, and that Torpedoes should be what Large Pulses are to Large Beams (cruise).
2. Make regular Torpedoes have medium range with skills (maybe 20km base, 40km with maxed skills).
3. Make Rage torpedoes have shorter range (maybe 10km base, 20km with maxed skills) and do more damage, perhaps 550 base. These are the equivalent of Conflagration L.
4. Make Javelin torpedoes have longer range (maybe 40km base, 80km with maxed skills) and do less damage, perhaps 380 base. These are the equivalent of Scorch L.
With these changes the Torpraven would be competitive DPS-wise with the autopest and Blasterthron at close range while being unable to do the same damage at very long ranges. It would also, unlike the current stats on SiSi, make Javelin torpedoes useful.
There could be penalties to the torpedoes, but they shouldn't be any more severe than those for Conflag and Scorch.
What do you think?
What do I think? I think Caldari pilots don't have a **** clue about balance. You want the DPS of blasterships and you want to compare torpedoes to blasters, but you want freaking 20 times the range of blasters.
"Gee make torpedoes short-range weapons, CCP! They should be our blasters! Just make sure they still go 80k, ok? Cause I don't actually want any of the penalties of short range weapons, ok?"
Good luck with that.
|
Risien Drogonne
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 18:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/11/2006 14:29:36
Originally by: Great Artista Hell! Lets boost caldari a bit more!!
So, making Torpedoes have crap range and nerfing Rage damage is a boost?
I'd like to live in your universe. The point of the changes is to nerf other torpedoes' range so that Javelin are better, not to boost Javelin
I'd like to live in the universe where 80km is crap range. What are you smoking?
|
Ficti0n
FireTech Imperium Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 18:07:00 -
[15]
DS i think this is a great idea.
but...
Dont you think it sort of makes the difference between all the weapon types much less?
Making them much like t2 crystals would be good for balancing yes.
but it would also make the difference between caldari and amarr less.
|
Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 18:16:00 -
[16]
Javelin torps don't even make sense in the first place.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"Victory is the weakness of the enemy."
Corp/Alliance Services |
darkmancer
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 18:44:00 -
[17]
It would be nice to see cruise missiles as a serious weapon in PVP. I've just looked though the kali stats and taking into account launcher rof, cruise fury missiles do 20% less dps than normal torps. Add in the 34% cap recharge loss (5% per missile ^6) and they're simply not feasible. Normal cruise do less than 64% of a torp.
I know cruise have a load of advantages over torps, but the damage range is simply too great, and too into pvp with a cruise raven's suicidal.
A slight boost to cruise launcher rof (16.32 instead of 17.6 for a 15% increase of ROF over torps), or a slight increase in damage in exchange for worse explo velo + explosion radius.
The fury penalty needs a complete change, thereÆs currently no sensible position to use them in.
As for the torps nerfing t1 ammo just to make 1 type of t2 usful seems a bit ott. The ravens a terrible ship for dictating combat range shrinking torp range to 40km will seriously hurt it, making t2 launchers a necessity instead of a bonus.
|
Captain Raynor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 19:01:00 -
[18]
obviously right now javelin has been nerfed to uselessness..
rage torps have actually been boosted somewhat on sisi because they lowered the explosive radius by quite a lot
i wouldnt want torpedo range to be too short because it's pretty hard to setup a torp raven for any kind of speed what so ever, siege launchers are hard as hell to fit as it is
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
|
Captain Raynor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 19:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: darkmancer It would be nice to see cruise missiles as a serious weapon in PVP. I've just looked though the kali stats and taking into account launcher rof, cruise fury missiles do 20% less dps than normal torps. Add in the 34% cap recharge loss (5% per missile ^6) and they're simply not feasible. Normal cruise do less than 64% of a torp.
I know cruise have a load of advantages over torps, but the damage range is simply too great, and too into pvp with a cruise raven's suicidal.
A slight boost to cruise launcher rof (16.32 instead of 17.6 for a 15% increase of ROF over torps), or a slight increase in damage in exchange for worse explo velo + explosion radius.
The fury penalty needs a complete change, thereÆs currently no sensible position to use them in.
As for the torps nerfing t1 ammo just to make 1 type of t2 usful seems a bit ott. The ravens a terrible ship for dictating combat range shrinking torp range to 40km will seriously hurt it, making t2 launchers a necessity instead of a bonus.
the only good thing about cruise launchers is the fact its a lot easier to setup a solid tank and you can fit 2 heavy nosferatu on as well, which is a nice plus.. off the top of my head though i'm pretty sure i only do 546 DPS with a 5% launcher rof implant and max skill (cruise spec 5 included) with 3 bcu II..
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 19:08:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/11/2006 19:09:29
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/11/2006 14:29:36
Originally by: Great Artista Hell! Lets boost caldari a bit more!!
So, making Torpedoes have crap range and nerfing Rage damage is a boost?
I'd like to live in your universe. The point of the changes is to nerf other torpedoes' range so that Javelin are better, not to boost Javelin
I'd like to live in the universe where 80km is crap range. What are you smoking?
80km is the range for long-range, low damage Javelin torpedoes.
Read the farking post.
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
What do I think? I think Caldari pilots don't have a **** clue about balance. You want the DPS of blasterships and you want to compare torpedoes to blasters, but you want freaking 20 times the range of blasters.
Did you read the post? The short-range, blaster-like torpedoes would have a base range of about 10km, far less than blasters. By the way, I don't even fly Ravens.
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
"Gee make torpedoes short-range weapons, CCP! They should be our blasters! Just make sure they still go 80k, ok? Cause I don't actually want any of the penalties of short range weapons, ok?"
Good luck with that.
Read the farking post. They're compared to pulse lasers, not blasters. Pulse lasers can indeed shoot 40-80km with Scorch crystals, but they won't do as much damage.
The long range ammo does less damage. Are you people blind?!
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
|
tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 19:15:00 -
[21]
soooooo, to make something useful you have to make other things not so useful ?, ahhh I get it
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 19:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: tiller soooooo, to make something useful you have to make other things not so useful ?, ahhh I get it
Sometimes.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"Victory is the weakness of the enemy."
Corp/Alliance Services |
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 19:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/11/2006 14:31:57
The point of this idea is to make Torpedoes a short range weapon and nerf their range until Javelin appears to be actually useful.
1. Accept that cruise missiles, not torpedoes, are the long range weapons of Caldari, and that Torpedoes should be what Large Pulses are to Large Beams (cruise).
2. Make regular Torpedoes have medium range with skills (maybe 20km base, 40km with maxed skills).
3. Make Rage torpedoes have shorter range (maybe 10km base, 20km with maxed skills) and do more damage, perhaps 550 base. These are the equivalent of Conflagration L.
4. Make Javelin torpedoes have longer range (maybe 40km base, 80km with maxed skills) and do less damage, perhaps 380 base. These are the equivalent of Scorch L.
With these changes the Torpraven would be competitive DPS-wise with the autopest and Blasterthron at close range while being unable to do the same damage at very long ranges. It would also, unlike the current stats on SiSi, make Javelin torpedoes useful.
There could be penalties to the torpedoes, but they shouldn't be any more severe than those for Conflag and Scorch.
What do you think?
decent idea but torps would have to have less dmg then pulses since they hit every time and can use all dmg types. and the tech1 version should definetly not be equal to pulses with conflag, T2 should be close but not equal.
as for torps im all for reintroducing splash dmg to torpedoes only.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
|
Risien Drogonne
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 19:54:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 26/11/2006 19:55:27
Originally by: Dark Shikari 80km is the range for long-range, low damage Javelin torpedoes.
And this changes the fact that you called 80km "crap range" in what way, exactly?
Originally by: Dark Shikari Did you read the post? The short-range, blaster-like torpedoes would have a base range of about 10km, far less than blasters. By the way, I don't even fly Ravens.
Here's a free clue... Short range weapons don't have any penalties if you can just load a different type of ammo and completely negate that pesky short range part. That's why you don't deserve blaster DPS. Blasters can't load null and hit at 80k.
|
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 20:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 26/11/2006 19:55:27
Originally by: Dark Shikari 80km is the range for long-range, low damage Javelin torpedoes.
And this changes the fact that you called 80km "crap range" in what way, exactly?
Originally by: Dark Shikari Did you read the post? The short-range, blaster-like torpedoes would have a base range of about 10km, far less than blasters. By the way, I don't even fly Ravens.
Here's a free clue... Short range weapons don't have any penalties if you can just load a different type of ammo and completely negate that pesky short range part. That's why you don't deserve blaster DPS. Blasters can't load null and hit at 80k.
Yes but your blaster ship has the ability to MOVE.
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
|
ArtemisEntreri
Art of War Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 05:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Originally by: Risien Drogonne Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 26/11/2006 19:55:27
Originally by: Dark Shikari 80km is the range for long-range, low damage Javelin torpedoes.
And this changes the fact that you called 80km "crap range" in what way, exactly?
Originally by: Dark Shikari Did you read the post? The short-range, blaster-like torpedoes would have a base range of about 10km, far less than blasters. By the way, I don't even fly Ravens.
Here's a free clue... Short range weapons don't have any penalties if you can just load a different type of ammo and completely negate that pesky short range part. That's why you don't deserve blaster DPS. Blasters can't load null and hit at 80k.
Yes but your blaster ship has the ability to MOVE.
If raven wants close range high damage it's gonna have to fit a mwd or ab, don't give me that crap about not being able to fit speed mods it's easy.
|
Tetovo
Caldari Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 05:33:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 26/11/2006 19:55:27
Originally by: Dark Shikari 80km is the range for long-range, low damage Javelin torpedoes.
And this changes the fact that you called 80km "crap range" in what way, exactly?
Originally by: Dark Shikari Did you read the post? The short-range, blaster-like torpedoes would have a base range of about 10km, far less than blasters. By the way, I don't even fly Ravens.
Here's a free clue... Short range weapons don't have any penalties if you can just load a different type of ammo and completely negate that pesky short range part. That's why you don't deserve blaster DPS. Blasters can't load null and hit at 80k.
I don't think he asked for blaster DPS. I think he wanted a torp raven to be able to compete with a blasterthron not to have a raven do the same dps as a blasterthron. Calm the **** down.
|
Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 06:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Captain Raynor obviously right now javelin has been nerfed to uselessness..
rage torps have actually been boosted somewhat on sisi because they lowered the explosive radius by quite a lot
i wouldnt want torpedo range to be too short because it's pretty hard to setup a torp raven for any kind of speed what so ever, siege launchers are hard as hell to fit as it is
rage torps being good for POS and capital ship bashing wasn't a bad thing. the very high explosion radious was needed to keep them being used against Battlships reguarly with any effectiveness.
I really don't see why torp furies were changed. esp why they were changed to what they are now. What are supposed to be used for? Jav's did need to be changed, but what were they changed into? they have no purpose anymore. Tech II ammo does need to be specialized, but the new tech II torps have no purpose.
Rail ammo is also fubar. Spike is long range, worthless at close ranges. It did need to be toned down, and it was. That is the good half. Javalin needed to be changed, because it was suicide to load it into half the games railboats ( caldari ones ). Now it has swung the other way. with it's steep steep range penalties, only caldari gunships are going to be able to use it with it's tracking penalties. a mega is going to have to fit multiple tracking comps just to push it out of blaster range.
|
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 06:58:00 -
[29]
Remember that javelin missile types are not precision missile types.
The different T2 missile types focus on different aspects: 2x guided (precision, fury) for light, heavy, cruise missile. 2x unguided (javelin, rage) for rockets, hams, torps.
The latter group is not affected by the full missile skillset because they're rated 'unguided'.
If the new missiles (HAM) and the changes followed those rules, hardly anyone would psot about the changes as long as they didn't totally push the system over. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Beringe
Caldari Raptus Regaliter
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 07:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Naughty Boy Alternative idea...
NB.
This is much closer to what I'd like to see implemented. Did you ever start a thread about it here? ------------------------------------------- "Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |