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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6243
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Posted - 2015.06.29 16:37:25 -
[1] - Quote
I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers.
What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others?
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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Tara Star
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.06.29 18:36:21 -
[2] - Quote
It will be the best for me since it'll be the only one I can fly. |
Ryac Sampaio
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
6
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Posted - 2015.06.29 18:51:24 -
[3] - Quote
I can fly all 4 and there's kind of a rock - paper - scissors thing going for them. They all excel at doing different things. |
Wendrika Hydreiga
406
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Posted - 2015.06.29 18:55:23 -
[4] - Quote
Eww! Gallente ships! Horrible!
It might be the best on paper, but I'll take the cellphone tower everyday! |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
100
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Posted - 2015.06.29 19:10:05 -
[5] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others? Nice video as usual ^ |
Eternal Montage
Myriad Sequence
107
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Posted - 2015.06.29 20:26:15 -
[6] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others?
Holy ****! Watch that video. I didn't know Barrack Obama played Eve!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=169738
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6248
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Posted - 2015.06.29 20:26:36 -
[7] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others? Nice video as usual ^ Thanks Moac!
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6248
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Posted - 2015.06.29 20:30:57 -
[8] - Quote
Eternal Montage wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others? Holy ****! Watch that video. I didn't know Barrack Obama played Eve! Thank you?
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6248
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Posted - 2015.06.29 20:33:40 -
[9] - Quote
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:Eww! Gallente ships! Horrible!
It might be the best on paper, but I'll take the cellphone tower everyday! I know what you mean, and I'm still trying to figure out how best to use it. I'm leaning in the direction that unlike most vessels there will be just as many people using it with rails as use it with blasters.
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1818
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Posted - 2015.06.29 20:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm looking at blaster hull tank fits mainly. While they don't have room for multiple mag stabs, fitting overdrive injectors leads to very high speeds while maintaining 500+ dps.
Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
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Lodestone Toyee
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
39
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Posted - 2015.06.30 03:17:03 -
[11] - Quote
I did a lot of testing with a brawl MWD Hecate on the test server, and one of its chief problems was range control. Anything with an AB was easily able to escape a single web-scram.
I'd agree with Mr. RhubarbPie that the most successful brawl hecates would be hull tanked so they don't need a cap booster (and can fit another web, or maybe even dual prop)
I imagine it would make a decent kiter, however its agility is really awful outside of prop mode.
In short, I think the svipul would make a better brawler, and in the kite department it seems like it would be a slightly more tanky confessor with less optimal and tracking. It has its place, but I doubt it will be the best T3d |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1901
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Posted - 2015.06.30 04:12:48 -
[12] - Quote
It's usual practice in the game development when new content is temporarily overpowered and then nerfed after couple months after people spend time and money on it. |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
252
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Posted - 2015.06.30 04:33:47 -
[13] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:It's usual practice in the game development when new content is temporarily overpowered and then nerfed after couple months after people spend time and money on it. Kinda like T3 Cruisers are solo-godmode-pwnmobiles still after years... wait... oh wait they still are even after "nerfs'.
YOU ARE WRONG |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
252
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Posted - 2015.06.30 04:40:33 -
[14] - Quote
Speakingbof T3 Cruisers being super powered. It kinda is balanced to an extent cuz of the skilloss. Fozzie even said when they removed the podgrade skill loss they wanted intentionally to KEEP T3 Cruisers skill loss as a balance mechanic. Now first cruise 5 is longer anyways then you need the tactical ssubsys skills and tactical racial skill. And then you lose freaking skill if you die. And the subrigs cost tons....
And uet the superOP godmode pwnmobile T3 Destroyers cpst 10mill after platinum insurance and less skills and no SP loss????
I dont get it. They are sick sick sick OP and basically make AssFrigs and most t1 frigates and destroyers and even cruisers OBSELETE.
How dont ccp see this? It must be intentional |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6252
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Posted - 2015.06.30 05:52:05 -
[15] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Speakingbof T3 Cruisers being super powered. It kinda is balanced to an extent cuz of the skilloss. Fozzie even said when they removed the podgrade skill loss they wanted intentionally to KEEP T3 Cruisers skill loss as a balance mechanic. Now first cruise 5 is longer anyways then you need the tactical ssubsys skills and tactical racial skill. And then you lose freaking skill if you die. And the subrigs cost tons....
And uet the superOP godmode pwnmobile T3 Destroyers cpst 10mill after platinum insurance and less skills and no SP loss????
I dont get it. They are sick sick sick OP and basically make AssFrigs and most t1 frigates and destroyers and even cruisers OBSELETE.
How dont ccp see this? It must be intentional Well, the best way to get a ship that you consider to be OP noticed is to use the heck out of it and force a change. Fortunately we don't have to wait as long for those tweaks as we used to... usually.
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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Falken Falcon
32010
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Posted - 2015.06.30 06:01:36 -
[16] - Quote
They won't make cruisers obsolite. Some cruiser fits, maybe. T1 frigs or dessies? Never. Assault frigs? yes.
Only meta i see that will survive is the ralpy, the cost efficiency ratio will stay higher than the T3D's can offer and if CCP's plans to increase the price of the T3D's comes soon that ratio will get even better in comparison.
Aye, Sea Turtles
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1235
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Posted - 2015.06.30 06:18:21 -
[17] - Quote
t3ds are still new and shiny. I have a feeling they will probably stay that way till sometime after the AT, and then probably get nerfed a bit more. Gotta show off the new shiny of course.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10547
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Posted - 2015.06.30 06:47:38 -
[18] - Quote
Falken Falcon wrote:Assault frigs? yes. Wouldn't mind seeing a buff to AF's now. Still usable, but not as much now, and after all that work going into balancing sort of a waste. They do need to bump T3 up out of FW small complexes though. Why not just let them into beginner complexes? hah OP til they nerf them all I guess, as the norm, when they bring in the next OP thing and pat themselves on the back over the metadata numbers. |
Falken Falcon
32010
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Posted - 2015.06.30 06:58:01 -
[19] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Falken Falcon wrote:Assault frigs? yes. Wouldn't mind seeing a buff to AF's now. Still usable, but not as much now, and after all that work going into balancing sort of a waste. They do need to bump T3 up out of FW small complexes though. Why not just let them into beginner complexes? hah OP til they nerf them all I guess, as the norm, when they bring in the next OP thing and pat themselves on the back over the metadata numbers. Either nerft them or ramp up the cost of them. Currently T3D's are at 33 mil on average sell order where the dictors (T2 dessies) are at 40 mil on average sell order. How could the T3 be cheaper than the T2? Dessies are frigate eaters i do realize that, but when they are almost the same price as the T2 frigs. The target cost should be in the 60-70 mil region to be justified for it's uses and current attribues. I know that sounds alot, but there you go.
Aye, Sea Turtles
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Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
895
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Posted - 2015.06.30 07:33:32 -
[20] - Quote
Falken Falcon wrote:Either nerft them or ramp up the cost of them. Currently T3D's are at 33 mil on average sell order where the dictors (T2 dessies) are at 40 mil on average sell order. How could the T3 be cheaper than the T2? Dessies are frigate eaters i do realize that, but when they are almost the same price as the T2 frigs. The target cost should be in the 60-70 mil region to be justified for it's uses and current attribues. I know that sounds alot, but there you go. Still have to fix full insurance though. |
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10553
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Posted - 2015.06.30 07:56:17 -
[21] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Still have to fix full insurance though. hah I just checked that too, jackdaw gets ~1.5 on payout, not counting the insurance fee. Others I hear are almost full payout. CCP really thought this one through, eh? I'm glad I'm training SB on my frig/dessy character now. |
Trajan Unknown
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
60
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Posted - 2015.06.30 09:43:10 -
[22] - Quote
Insurance and market prices, two things CCP adjusts every downtime /not
Come one, learn the basics before complaining. :)
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10554
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Posted - 2015.06.30 10:41:19 -
[23] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:Insurance and market prices, two things CCP adjusts every downtime /not
Come one, learn the basics before complaining. :)
I'm not complaining that the payout is too low, I'm saying it's too high, and agreeing with Falcon that the hulls are too cheap too boot (as a possible fix). They are doing their metadata thing again, OP something new and look at the numbers to claim success over the old. Sandboxes shouldn't have shinies, but cohesiveness. This isn't a level progression themepark after all. :)
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CCP Falcon
11701
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Posted - 2015.06.30 10:52:47 -
[24] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others?
Hecate of course. It's Gallente.
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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Nihilaus Vause
Moira. Villore Accords
4
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Posted - 2015.06.30 11:29:45 -
[25] - Quote
^^ |
Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
155
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Posted - 2015.06.30 11:43:29 -
[26] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:They are sick sick sick OP and basically make AssFrigs and most t1 frigates and destroyers and even cruisers OBSELETE.
Falken Falcon wrote:They won't make cruisers obsolite.
Any other options? Obsoleet maybe?
If in doubt, try "useless".
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
4029
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Posted - 2015.06.30 12:24:09 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others? Hecate of course. It's Gallente.
Now now my little roast-beef, no need to be jelly because of superior Gallente Frencheration engineering skills. As ze man said, it's simply ze best oui oui oui.
By the way, you guys are pronoucing ze name wrongly. It's Ecateu, from where I'm from you'd skip the H at the beginning just to confuse people. I don't care if this stuff is happening thousand of years in the future if I have to suffer with this ridiculous accent so should you.
Totally unrelated, accidental and out of context example for you CCP Falcon: homicide. |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6256
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Posted - 2015.06.30 13:46:57 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others? Hecate of course. It's Gallente. [img]http://31.media.tumblr.com/05cfc95eddc733531f946d6a77338064/tumblr_n7os52qhvF1qhx46yo1_500.gif[/img] Now now my little roast-beef, no need to be jelly because of superior Gallente Frencheration engineering skills. As ze man said, it's simply ze best oui oui oui. By the way, you guys are pronoucing ze name wrongly. It's Ecateu, from where I'm from you'd skip the H at the beginning just to confuse people. I don't care if this stuff is happening thousand of years in the future if I have to suffer with this ridiculous accent so should you. Totally unrelated, accidental and out of context example for you CCP Falcon: homicide. LOL.
Perhaps we should all admit linguistic defeat together and simply agree to call it "Kate".
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1424
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 14:41:24 -
[29] - Quote
If it were French it'd have built in WCS, like 5 of them. |
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
524
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Posted - 2015.06.30 14:44:38 -
[30] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:If it were French it'd have built in WCS, like 5 of them.
and add reverse thrusters
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Darkblad
Hilf Dir selbst in EVE
1243
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Posted - 2015.06.30 14:55:06 -
[31] - Quote
How do you say it?
EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions
(EN & DE)
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Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
477
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Posted - 2015.06.30 15:02:23 -
[32] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:If it were French it'd have built in WCS, like 5 of them. and add reverse thrusters and armour protection for the wine store.
Fear God and Thread Nought
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16620
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Posted - 2015.06.30 15:42:14 -
[33] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:If it were French it'd have built in WCS, like 5 of them.
if it were american, it would have 3x as much mass and none of the other star systems would show up on the map when you hit F10.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
255
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Posted - 2015.06.30 15:48:30 -
[34] - Quote
USA USA |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1424
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Posted - 2015.06.30 16:07:04 -
[35] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:If it were French it'd have built in WCS, like 5 of them. if it were american, it would have 3x as much mass and none of the other star systems would show up on the map when you hit F10.
And all warning sounds would be replaced with "OH MY GAWD!" |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6257
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Posted - 2015.06.30 16:12:18 -
[36] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:If it were French it'd have built in WCS, like 5 of them. if it were american, it would have 3x as much mass and none of the other star systems would show up on the map when you hit F10. So, you're saying this star system makes my mass look big?
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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CCP Falcon
11705
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Posted - 2015.06.30 16:20:51 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others? Hecate of course. It's Gallente. Now now my little roast-beef, no need to be jelly because of superior Gallente Frencheration engineering skills. As ze man said, it's simply ze best oui oui oui. By the way, you guys are pronoucing ze name wrongly. It's Ecateu, from where I'm from you'd skip the H at the beginning just to confuse people. I don't care if this stuff is happening thousand of years in the future if I have to suffer with this ridiculous accent so should you. Totally unrelated, accidental and out of context example for you CCP Falcon: homicide.
Oui oui, mon darling bagu+¬tt+¬! <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Look at this fac+¬ <<<< Ce'st Gall+¬nt+¬!
<3 Vive la F+¬d+¬ration!
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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Masaaq
PYRO MANIACS A Band Apart.
10
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Posted - 2015.06.30 16:21:57 -
[38] - Quote
Eternal Montage wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others? Holy ****! Watch that video. I didn't know Barrack Obama played Eve!
It seems Barack Obama and Jeff Bridges had a love child.
Ranger 1, for your next video please read us a bedtime story.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6257
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Posted - 2015.06.30 19:07:54 -
[39] - Quote
Masaaq wrote:Eternal Montage wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others? Holy ****! Watch that video. I didn't know Barrack Obama played Eve! It seems Barack Obama and Jeff Bridges had a love child. Ranger 1, for your next video please read us a bedtime story. Will a parable do? The Scorpion and the Frog
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10480
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 19:21:41 -
[40] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Masaaq wrote:Eternal Montage wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others? Holy ****! Watch that video. I didn't know Barrack Obama played Eve! It seems Barack Obama and Jeff Bridges had a love child. Ranger 1, for your next video please read us a bedtime story. Will a parable do? The Scorpion and the Frog Confirming, my partner has a thinly veiled lust for ranger 1 that only makes a little jealous.
Love the content as always mate, keep it up.
=]|[=
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Liam Inkuras
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
1582
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Posted - 2015.06.30 19:28:24 -
[41] - Quote
Masaaq wrote:Eternal Montage wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others? Holy ****! Watch that video. I didn't know Barrack Obama played Eve! It seems Barack Obama and Jeff Bridges had a love child. Ranger 1, for your next video please read us a bedtime story. Hello my fellow Americans, today I speak to you about the Hecate
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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Masaaq
PYRO MANIACS A Band Apart.
10
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Posted - 2015.07.01 12:24:48 -
[42] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Masaaq wrote:Eternal Montage wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I just finished a spotlight episode that focuses on the new Hecate, and I have to tell you that as far as looks go I have to say it's by far and away the best looking of the new tactical destroyers. What I"m curious about though, do you think it's going to end up being the most effective of the bunch (especially at kiting)... or does that honor go to one of the others? Holy ****! Watch that video. I didn't know Barrack Obama played Eve! It seems Barack Obama and Jeff Bridges had a love child. Ranger 1, for your next video please read us a bedtime story. Will a parable do? Armored Warfare style, of course. The Scorpion and the Frog
Mate, you just made my morning at the office. Quality.
Also, your videos are great - keep making them! |
Ripblade Falconpunch
Centurion Logistics
240
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Posted - 2015.07.01 13:46:57 -
[43] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Speakingbof T3 Cruisers being super powered. It kinda is balanced to an extent cuz of the skilloss. Fozzie even said when they removed the podgrade skill loss they wanted intentionally to KEEP T3 Cruisers skill loss as a balance mechanic. Now first cruise 5 is longer anyways then you need the tactical ssubsys skills and tactical racial skill. And then you lose freaking skill if you die. And the subrigs cost tons....
And uet the superOP godmode pwnmobile T3 Destroyers cpst 10mill after platinum insurance and less skills and no SP loss????
I dont get it. They are sick sick sick OP and basically make AssFrigs and most t1 frigates and destroyers and even cruisers OBSELETE.
How dont ccp see this? It must be intentional
You want some cheese to go with that whine? |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
309
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 14:36:07 -
[44] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Falken Falcon wrote:Assault frigs? yes. Wouldn't mind seeing a buff to AF's now. Still usable, but not as much now, and after all that work going into balancing sort of a waste. They do need to bump T3 up out of FW small complexes though. Why not just let them into beginner complexes? hah OP til they nerf them all I guess, as the norm, when they bring in the next OP thing and pat themselves on the back over the metadata numbers. Afs got a huge buff like a year ago. They wouldnt need another if it wasnt for these new dessies. This is textbook power creep. |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
852
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Posted - 2015.07.03 14:54:28 -
[45] - Quote
I love your voic- videos. I said videos.
There are all our dominion
Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
473
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Posted - 2015.07.03 16:42:35 -
[46] - Quote
Does anyone actually fly the confessor or jackdaw?
Every time I roam around lowsec all I see are Svipuls. Svipuls everywhere.
Suddenly spaceships? More like suddenly svipuls.
And now AF's are even more useless, except perhaps the null rail harpy doctrines. Galmil used to run Harpy/scythe fleets but why bother when you can do dual MSE svipuls for the same price? |
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