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Jonn Duune
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
8
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Posted - 2015.06.29 22:44:02 -
[1] - Quote
c6 wormhole space is very stagnant these days, so i propose the following changes:
the statics in c6 wormholes should be variable.
C6s should have 3 types of statics: connections to c5/c6, connections to c3/c4 and connections to c1/c2.
When you close your static, you get a 50% chance of spawning a high level or low level static connection. So if you're in a c6 and you currently have a c6 static, you have a 50% chance of spawning another c6 static when you close that, if not it spawns a c5 static. Same goes for the other two connection types.
In addition to this, I would alter the c6 to c2 connections to meet the same mass and jump restrictions as c6 to c1 WHs.
Any thoughts? |
Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4542
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Posted - 2015.06.29 22:57:36 -
[2] - Quote
The issue isn't the C6 class itself, it's the people who live there. it was very deliberately turned into farmville and messing with the statics isn't going to change that.
The solution is removing/drastically changing cap escalations so that people actually need to leave their home system.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
147
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Posted - 2015.06.30 02:42:55 -
[3] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:The issue isn't the C6 class itself, it's the people who live there. it was very deliberately turned into farmville and messing with the statics isn't going to change that.
The solution is removing/drastically changing cap escalations so that people actually need to leave their home system.
Confirming, c6 space is dead because of the current player base, not the statics. Under the guise of c5 space is for pvp! a few former noho groups have found c5 space to be the opposite, if anything its even more work than being in c6 space.
but sure farm the hell out of stuff while it lasts, ccp is noticing a lack of wh deaths and you guys are racking in to much isk with out losing enough ships, so I dont see how changes arnt going to happen. because of that risk reward thing.
Im totally fine with the removal of cap escalations completely. (c5 + c6)
Failing that because sigs dont change over dt any more, sites should remember there escalation state from previous day. I.e you get only one set of full cap escalations per site.
Possibly detune c6 sites so a group of sub caps with 3-4 ships can clear them. one time we cleared some ones c6 sites in front of them in ishtars and the salt in local was dead sea worthy. |
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
81
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Posted - 2015.06.30 03:45:43 -
[4] - Quote
GizzyBoy wrote:Jack Miton wrote:The issue isn't the C6 class itself, it's the people who live there. it was very deliberately turned into farmville and messing with the statics isn't going to change that.
The solution is removing/drastically changing cap escalations so that people actually need to leave their home system. Confirming, c6 space is dead because of the current player base, not the statics. Under the guise of c5 space is for pvp! a few former noho groups have found c5 space to be the opposite, if anything its even more work than being in c6 space. but sure farm the hell out of stuff while it lasts, ccp is noticing a lack of wh deaths and you guys are racking in to much isk with out losing enough ships, so I dont see how changes arnt going to happen. because of that risk reward thing. Im totally fine with the removal of cap escalations completely. (c5 + c6) Failing that because sigs dont change over dt any more, sites should remember there escalation state from previous day. I.e you get only one set of full cap escalations per site. Possibly detune c6 sites so a group of sub caps with 3-4 ships can clear them. one time we cleared some ones c6 sites in front of them in ishtars and the salt in local was dead sea worthy.
That would not change c6 space, at most it would make more vacant wormholes, as people would leave for more lucrative ways of making isk. (less bears = less targets = less content = more dota) Now adding an additional fun factor, so people actually have a reason to live in a c6 might do it, since we have already seen that nerfs only make people not want to play the game. A c4 static for all c6s might be interesting, as you would most definitely find content in those, and it would allow easier access to any c6's for low class groups to venture & ravage in.
~lvl 60 paladin~
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4545
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Posted - 2015.06.30 04:44:04 -
[5] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:That would not change c6 space, at most it would make more vacant wormholes, as people would leave for more lucrative ways of making isk. (less bears = less targets = less content = more dota) This is just blatantly incorrect. Mechanics wise, C6 space is perfect for PVP since it's super easy to roll a C6 static and when you get the PVP entity density high enough in C6 space, you end up hitting other PVP groups to fight very often. Few years ago this was somewhat the case where the vast majority of C6 groups were PVP focused and all the PVE groups being in C5 space since C5s are MUCH safer for farming.
PS: adding a 2nd static to C6s would be nice too. bringing them in line with the other even numbered classes. (Hell, all Whs should have 2 statics.)
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Winthorp
3546
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Posted - 2015.06.30 06:51:44 -
[6] - Quote
I had a good laugh reading this.
/thread.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Bleedingthrough
Project AIice
168
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Posted - 2015.06.30 07:28:20 -
[7] - Quote
If you remove all the non krabs only the krabs will remain.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
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Rek Seven
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1978
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Posted - 2015.06.30 09:13:25 -
[8] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:That would not change c6 space, at most it would make more vacant wormholes, as people would leave for more lucrative ways of making isk. (less bears = less targets = less content = more dota) This is just blatantly incorrect. Mechanics wise, C6 space is perfect for PVP since it's super easy to roll a C6 static and when you get the PVP entity density high enough in C6 space, you end up hitting other PVP groups to fight very often. Few years ago this was somewhat the case where the vast majority of C6 groups were PVP focused and all the PVE groups being in C5 space since C5s are MUCH safer for farming. PS: adding a 2nd static to C6s would be nice too. bringing them in line with the other even numbered classes. (Hell, all Whs should have 2 statics.)
Actually he's right. If you reduce the isk making potential in C6 space then there will be no point to living in a C6 system.
Tactically C6's are the most dangerous system from a defensive standpoint, so there needs to be an incentive to live there. Endlessly rolling to fight the same people over and over again gets old fast and has cause many entities to break apart or leave C6 space (or wormholes all together).
That said, the time for a shakeup of wormhole mechanics has passed.
+1
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Digits Kho
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
67
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Posted - 2015.06.30 09:54:37 -
[9] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote: Tactically C6's are the most dangerous system from a defensive standpoint, so there needs to be an incentive to live there. Endlessly rolling to fight the same people over and over again gets old fast and has caused many entities to break apart or leave C6 space (or wormholes all together).
That said, the time for a shakeup of wormhole mechanics has passed but i do agree that all wormholes should have to statics.
Can you name some that quit for that reason? Im just very behind on news. |
GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
147
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Posted - 2015.06.30 09:58:59 -
[10] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:
That would not change c6 space, at most it would make more vacant wormholes, as people would leave for more lucrative ways of making isk. (less bears = less targets = less content = more dota) Now adding an additional fun factor, so people actually have a reason to live in a c6 might do it, since we have already seen that nerfs only make people not want to play the game. A c4 static for all c6s might be interesting, as you would most definitely find content in those, and it would allow easier access to any c6's for low class groups to venture & ravage in.
They are either there for pvp with some easy isk or they aren't, if there are other untapped ways to make easy isk, have at it seriously.. a group that logs in for 1 and a half hours a day should never be considered in any form of content type ratio, and if you do unless you like login traps should be treated as marginal content at best.
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GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
147
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Posted - 2015.06.30 10:20:16 -
[11] - Quote
Digits Kho wrote:Rek Seven wrote: Tactically C6's are the most dangerous system from a defensive standpoint, so there needs to be an incentive to live there. Endlessly rolling to fight the same people over and over again gets old fast and has caused many entities to break apart or leave C6 space (or wormholes all together).
That said, the time for a shakeup of wormhole mechanics has passed but i do agree that all wormholes should have to statics.
Can you name some that quit for that reason? Im just very behind on news.
Not many quit for that reason(unless they where evicted), Just alot never moved up to even more dangerous space. and preferred to stay where they where instead of take the risk.
To roll into a c6 1/112 chance of finding the one you want If there where 10 us tz corps who liked to pew you had a 1/12 chance of finding one of those groups.
There is 512 c5's
you now need 5 x 10 pvp groups of the same size tz to get any where near the same ratio or chance of making engagable contact, Last I checked we are no where near that in c5 space.
In regards to fighting the same people over again I dont know if you tried null space of late, but its exactly the same there. (at least for small gang) For the most part im happy to say we are pretty good friends with all the people we fought with alot. I wouldnt expect any one else to understand but at some point all you really want in the game is a place to call your own.
The t3 meta was getting a bit boring, I dont miss that at all.
Any way, I do the stuff I like in game now, a dash of pve, with a dosh of Pvp, and a sprinkle of salt mining. but on the doctors orders I have to cut back on the salt though.
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Rek Seven
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1978
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Posted - 2015.06.30 11:18:50 -
[12] - Quote
Digits Kho wrote:Rek Seven wrote: Tactically C6's are the most dangerous system from a defensive standpoint, so there needs to be an incentive to live there. Endlessly rolling to fight the same people over and over again gets old fast and has caused many entities to break apart or leave C6 space (or wormholes all together).
That said, the time for a shakeup of wormhole mechanics has passed but i do agree that all wormholes should have to statics.
Can you name some that quit for that reason? Im just very behind on news.
My old group probe patrol (polarized) for one and i believe NOHO went to null... I don't have a list, sorry.
Most of the big groups that lived in C6 space a year ago have either downgraded to a lower class, fragmented to create separate groups or just moved out all together.
+1
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1436
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Posted - 2015.06.30 11:29:59 -
[13] - Quote
SYJ left. Huge alliance at the time solely because they couldn't find pvp (generally outnumbered people).
C6 space lost its appeal since it's all renters and farmers, with minimal reason to go get rid of them (there so farmed to death the price of everything tanked).
There is a lot that can be done, from removing escalations or only having single escalations, to dual static c6, to downgrading c6 space to c5, to moving gas or assets out and into shattered space.
What's proper? Probably none of it
Yaay!!!!
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Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
81
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Posted - 2015.06.30 13:00:54 -
[14] - Quote
GizzyBoy wrote:
They are either there for pvp with some easy isk or they aren't, if there are other untapped ways to make easy isk, have at it seriously.. a group that logs in for 1 and a half hours a day should never be considered in any form of content type ratio, and if you do unless you like login traps should be treated as marginal content at best.
While what you are saying is true, there is no reason to not just downgrade your static from a c6 to a c5, and ect. (Most if not all bigger groups that left had c6 static irc.) While asking for changes and blaming renters, game mechanics, single static is a good/bad way to go about it (depends on your perspective), not doing anything in game to change/fix that stagnation makes you as much as part of the problem as the reasons stated. C6's space right now, is what players made it, and other players let those players made it into.
~lvl 60 paladin~
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4550
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Posted - 2015.06.30 13:30:34 -
[15] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Actually he's right. If you reduce the isk making potential in C6 space then there will be no point to living in a C6 system.
Tactically C6's are the most dangerous system from a defensive standpoint, so there needs to be an incentive to live there. Endlessly rolling to fight the same people over and over again gets old fast and has caused many entities to break apart or leave C6 space (or wormholes all together). i know this might be a foreign concept to you but some people actually enjoy PVP.
since you brought it up, chain rolling is for muppets who are too lazy to scan their chains. that's entirely your own fault. it also becomes a non issue if you add a second static.
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:C6's space right now, is what players made it, and other players let those players made it into. ^this is exactly what I said in my first response. like i said, the issues you see in C6 space are not due to mechanics.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1436
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Posted - 2015.06.30 13:37:18 -
[16] - Quote
Partially not due to mechanic.
We wouldn't be having this discussion if there were 500 C6 space wormholes vs the 100 that presently exist.
Or maybe we would.
Yaay!!!!
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Jonn Duune
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
8
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Posted - 2015.06.30 14:52:21 -
[17] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Partially not due to mechanic.
We wouldn't be having this discussion if there were 500 C6 space wormholes vs the 100 that presently exist.
Or maybe we would. it might be worse if there were 500 of them, you'd have the same amount of bears, just spread out over 5x the space. |
Wander Prian
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
73
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Posted - 2015.06.30 15:14:14 -
[18] - Quote
Currently the only big corporations living in C6 that I know, are Dropbears and QEX. The rest are just farmers |
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
356
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Posted - 2015.06.30 15:28:39 -
[19] - Quote
If c6 got a second static I (and others) would reconsider them.
~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
.ORLY is recruiting
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Jonn Duune
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
8
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Posted - 2015.06.30 15:35:09 -
[20] - Quote
calaretu wrote:If c6 got a second static I (and others) would reconsider them.
what kind of static would you want? a second j-space? or say a permanent null static for all c6s that always opens when spawned...? |
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Tim Nering
R3d Fire
91
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Posted - 2015.06.30 16:57:55 -
[21] - Quote
null static with that much mass sounds like a lot of fun =D |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
248
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Posted - 2015.06.30 17:42:32 -
[22] - Quote
Tim Nering wrote:null static with that much mass sounds like a lot of fun =D
Well you can currently take a C3 or C2 and get a 3b null static, but no caps, so.....
Yeah, well, it's just like my-áopinion, man.
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calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
356
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Posted - 2015.07.01 05:56:58 -
[23] - Quote
Jonn Duune wrote:calaretu wrote:If c6 got a second static I (and others) would reconsider them. what kind of static would you want? a second j-space? or say a permanent null static for all c6s that always opens when spawned...?
Second j-space static. K-space static in high class should be reserved for the shattered systems as is now
~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
.ORLY is recruiting
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4553
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Posted - 2015.07.01 06:34:06 -
[24] - Quote
Statics to kspace are completely useless. mostly because they dont lead to wspace.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1437
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Posted - 2015.07.01 17:14:14 -
[25] - Quote
I'd do something dramatic to be honest. If you wanted a 2nd static in c6 space, it should be into shattered wormholes.
There are 100 shattered wormholes, about 110 c6. The 2nd static should be a shattered static that rolls every day or two. I'd increase the amount of shattered wandering wormholes into c5's by a significant amount.
to improve the viability, I'd remove repeated escalations out of c5 and c6 space (no more running sites 3 nights in a row, you can do it once, but then the site is done, you want a new escalation, you need a new site). I'd move the escalations into the shattered wormholes.
Connecting wormholes from c6 to shattered space are significantly larger, able to accept more than 3 capitals (6 to 15 roughly). These should also be more difficult to crit and should recharge overtime (not impossible, but it should not be capable of critting a hole for longer than 5 minutes without it regenerating a significant amount of its mass). In addition, if you roll the hole, it should spawn a k162 immediately on the otherside (this is solely into shattered space only and to keep people from closing off their c6 wormhole from everybody).
Shattered holes should have its own statics that spawn into other shattered wormholes (minimum 1 connection to another static shattered wormholes, but more like 2 to 3 connections).
I'd love to see c6 space move their profit margins into shattered space, with c5 having the ability to safari into shattered space. Escalations moved into shattered, dreads and carrier combat increased in shattered, a increase on the ability to move more caps through a hole (solely shattered connected holes), etc.
This would cut the profit of c5 and c6 space significantly by moving its farming capability into its static (like c2's function), and into shattered by moving the escalation fleet into it.
you can still farm your home hole, but the amount drops by over 3/4th. You'll have to farm the static.
If you surf through shattered space, you have the potential to run into every single c6 wormhole in one night.
Yaay!!!!
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Jonn Duune
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
8
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Posted - 2015.07.02 05:24:52 -
[26] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:I'd do something dramatic to be honest. If you wanted a 2nd static in c6 space, it should be into shattered wormholes.
There are 100 shattered wormholes, about 110 c6. The 2nd static should be a shattered static that rolls every day or two. I'd increase the amount of shattered wandering wormholes into c5's by a significant amount.
to improve the viability, I'd remove repeated escalations out of c5 and c6 space (no more running sites 3 nights in a row, you can do it once, but then the site is done, you want a new escalation, you need a new site). I'd move the escalations into the shattered wormholes.
Connecting wormholes from c6 to shattered space are significantly larger, able to accept more than 3 capitals (6 to 15 roughly). These should also be more difficult to crit and should recharge overtime (not impossible, but it should not be capable of critting a hole for longer than 5 minutes without it regenerating a significant amount of its mass). In addition, if you roll the hole, it should spawn a k162 immediately on the otherside (this is solely into shattered space only and to keep people from closing off their c6 wormhole from everybody).
Shattered holes should have its own statics that spawn into other shattered wormholes (minimum 1 connection to another static shattered wormholes, but more like 2 to 3 connections).
I'd love to see c6 space move their profit margins into shattered space, with c5 having the ability to safari into shattered space. Escalations moved into shattered, dreads and carrier combat increased in shattered, a increase on the ability to move more caps through a hole (solely shattered connected holes), etc.
This would cut the profit of c5 and c6 space significantly by moving its farming capability into its static (like c2's function), and into shattered by moving the escalation fleet into it.
you can still farm your home hole, but the amount drops by over 3/4th. You'll have to farm the static.
If you surf through shattered space, you have the potential to run into every single c6 wormhole in one night.
I like that idea. |
Waldemar Pawlak
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
130
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Posted - 2015.07.02 12:10:52 -
[27] - Quote
Guys... you are wrong.
C6 and c5s are fine as they are. And the ability to farm them is also optimal. I am not sure if you remember, but WH space needs to be open to normal people. Currently there exists a hegemony of a few WH groups and making farming even more difficult would mean that those groups who already have a great advantage would only reinforce their position. And while c5 and c6 are on the high end of pve difficulty they still need to seem attractive and doable to less experienced and newer to w-space groups.
What I think you may consider to be the problem is the fact that there are a few groups who rent/farm c5s and c6s. This situation has been created by the players and the players can undo it. A recent example for an attempted coup is the krabs uprising. If you want to change the face of c5 and c6s go and take them or get in and make a difference. And stop whining that your income per hour is too low in your c3. Go and take a c5. Or rent it.
For recruitment:
1) Join our public channel: Hard Knocks
2) Follow the steps in MOTD of the channel.
3) Profit!
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Kalel Nimrott
Sentu Demina Corpa
1158
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Posted - 2015.07.02 13:41:38 -
[28] - Quote
Could it be, maybe, MAYBE, that living in wormholes just got old? |
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
357
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:21:03 -
[29] - Quote
Waldemar Pawlak wrote:Guys... you are wrong.
C6 and c5s are fine as they are. And the ability to farm them is also optimal. I am not sure if you remember, but WH space needs to be open to normal people. Currently there exists a hegemony of a few WH groups and making farming even more difficult would mean that those groups who already have a great advantage would only reinforce their position. And while c5 and c6 are on the high end of pve difficulty they still need to seem attractive and doable to less experienced and newer to w-space groups.
What I think you may consider to be the problem is the fact that there are a few groups who rent/farm c5s and c6s. This situation has been created by the players and the players can undo it. A recent example for an attempted coup is the krabs uprising. If you want to change the face of c5 and c6s go and take them or get in and make a difference. And stop whining that your income per hour is too low in your c3. Go and take a c5. Or rent it.
This is only partly true. If people desired to live in c6 for anything but farming then the renter issue would solve itself. But as is the only ones who desires to live in c6 space are farmers. Atm c6 space doesnt have anything to make them preferable to other classes. If you want to hunt in null then c5 is better. If you want to hunt in wormholes then c4 is better. Why should really anyone choose to live in c6 space?
~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
.ORLY is recruiting
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Bleedingthrough
Project AIice
170
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:38:40 -
[30] - Quote
Sadly, the GÇ£hegemony of a few WH groupsGÇ¥(alias GÇ£the KrabkingsGÇ¥) is not able to provide a moral code that helps C5+-space to strive, they are part of the problem.
Brothers, we have abandoned Bob! IGÇÖd say burn the temples of the false prophets to the ground and he will enlighten us again. We shall not stop till the last farmhole is gone.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
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