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Jonn Duune
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
8
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Posted - 2015.06.29 22:44:02 -
[1] - Quote
c6 wormhole space is very stagnant these days, so i propose the following changes:
the statics in c6 wormholes should be variable.
C6s should have 3 types of statics: connections to c5/c6, connections to c3/c4 and connections to c1/c2.
When you close your static, you get a 50% chance of spawning a high level or low level static connection. So if you're in a c6 and you currently have a c6 static, you have a 50% chance of spawning another c6 static when you close that, if not it spawns a c5 static. Same goes for the other two connection types.
In addition to this, I would alter the c6 to c2 connections to meet the same mass and jump restrictions as c6 to c1 WHs.
Any thoughts? |
Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4542
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 22:57:36 -
[2] - Quote
The issue isn't the C6 class itself, it's the people who live there. it was very deliberately turned into farmville and messing with the statics isn't going to change that.
The solution is removing/drastically changing cap escalations so that people actually need to leave their home system.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
147
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Posted - 2015.06.30 02:42:55 -
[3] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:The issue isn't the C6 class itself, it's the people who live there. it was very deliberately turned into farmville and messing with the statics isn't going to change that.
The solution is removing/drastically changing cap escalations so that people actually need to leave their home system.
Confirming, c6 space is dead because of the current player base, not the statics. Under the guise of c5 space is for pvp! a few former noho groups have found c5 space to be the opposite, if anything its even more work than being in c6 space.
but sure farm the hell out of stuff while it lasts, ccp is noticing a lack of wh deaths and you guys are racking in to much isk with out losing enough ships, so I dont see how changes arnt going to happen. because of that risk reward thing.
Im totally fine with the removal of cap escalations completely. (c5 + c6)
Failing that because sigs dont change over dt any more, sites should remember there escalation state from previous day. I.e you get only one set of full cap escalations per site.
Possibly detune c6 sites so a group of sub caps with 3-4 ships can clear them. one time we cleared some ones c6 sites in front of them in ishtars and the salt in local was dead sea worthy. |
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
81
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Posted - 2015.06.30 03:45:43 -
[4] - Quote
GizzyBoy wrote:Jack Miton wrote:The issue isn't the C6 class itself, it's the people who live there. it was very deliberately turned into farmville and messing with the statics isn't going to change that.
The solution is removing/drastically changing cap escalations so that people actually need to leave their home system. Confirming, c6 space is dead because of the current player base, not the statics. Under the guise of c5 space is for pvp! a few former noho groups have found c5 space to be the opposite, if anything its even more work than being in c6 space. but sure farm the hell out of stuff while it lasts, ccp is noticing a lack of wh deaths and you guys are racking in to much isk with out losing enough ships, so I dont see how changes arnt going to happen. because of that risk reward thing. Im totally fine with the removal of cap escalations completely. (c5 + c6) Failing that because sigs dont change over dt any more, sites should remember there escalation state from previous day. I.e you get only one set of full cap escalations per site. Possibly detune c6 sites so a group of sub caps with 3-4 ships can clear them. one time we cleared some ones c6 sites in front of them in ishtars and the salt in local was dead sea worthy.
That would not change c6 space, at most it would make more vacant wormholes, as people would leave for more lucrative ways of making isk. (less bears = less targets = less content = more dota) Now adding an additional fun factor, so people actually have a reason to live in a c6 might do it, since we have already seen that nerfs only make people not want to play the game. A c4 static for all c6s might be interesting, as you would most definitely find content in those, and it would allow easier access to any c6's for low class groups to venture & ravage in.
~lvl 60 paladin~
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4545
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Posted - 2015.06.30 04:44:04 -
[5] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:That would not change c6 space, at most it would make more vacant wormholes, as people would leave for more lucrative ways of making isk. (less bears = less targets = less content = more dota) This is just blatantly incorrect. Mechanics wise, C6 space is perfect for PVP since it's super easy to roll a C6 static and when you get the PVP entity density high enough in C6 space, you end up hitting other PVP groups to fight very often. Few years ago this was somewhat the case where the vast majority of C6 groups were PVP focused and all the PVE groups being in C5 space since C5s are MUCH safer for farming.
PS: adding a 2nd static to C6s would be nice too. bringing them in line with the other even numbered classes. (Hell, all Whs should have 2 statics.)
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Winthorp
3546
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Posted - 2015.06.30 06:51:44 -
[6] - Quote
I had a good laugh reading this.
/thread.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Bleedingthrough
Project AIice
168
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Posted - 2015.06.30 07:28:20 -
[7] - Quote
If you remove all the non krabs only the krabs will remain.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
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Rek Seven
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1978
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 09:13:25 -
[8] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:That would not change c6 space, at most it would make more vacant wormholes, as people would leave for more lucrative ways of making isk. (less bears = less targets = less content = more dota) This is just blatantly incorrect. Mechanics wise, C6 space is perfect for PVP since it's super easy to roll a C6 static and when you get the PVP entity density high enough in C6 space, you end up hitting other PVP groups to fight very often. Few years ago this was somewhat the case where the vast majority of C6 groups were PVP focused and all the PVE groups being in C5 space since C5s are MUCH safer for farming. PS: adding a 2nd static to C6s would be nice too. bringing them in line with the other even numbered classes. (Hell, all Whs should have 2 statics.)
Actually he's right. If you reduce the isk making potential in C6 space then there will be no point to living in a C6 system.
Tactically C6's are the most dangerous system from a defensive standpoint, so there needs to be an incentive to live there. Endlessly rolling to fight the same people over and over again gets old fast and has cause many entities to break apart or leave C6 space (or wormholes all together).
That said, the time for a shakeup of wormhole mechanics has passed.
+1
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Digits Kho
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 09:54:37 -
[9] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote: Tactically C6's are the most dangerous system from a defensive standpoint, so there needs to be an incentive to live there. Endlessly rolling to fight the same people over and over again gets old fast and has caused many entities to break apart or leave C6 space (or wormholes all together).
That said, the time for a shakeup of wormhole mechanics has passed but i do agree that all wormholes should have to statics.
Can you name some that quit for that reason? Im just very behind on news. |
GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
147
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 09:58:59 -
[10] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:
That would not change c6 space, at most it would make more vacant wormholes, as people would leave for more lucrative ways of making isk. (less bears = less targets = less content = more dota) Now adding an additional fun factor, so people actually have a reason to live in a c6 might do it, since we have already seen that nerfs only make people not want to play the game. A c4 static for all c6s might be interesting, as you would most definitely find content in those, and it would allow easier access to any c6's for low class groups to venture & ravage in.
They are either there for pvp with some easy isk or they aren't, if there are other untapped ways to make easy isk, have at it seriously.. a group that logs in for 1 and a half hours a day should never be considered in any form of content type ratio, and if you do unless you like login traps should be treated as marginal content at best.
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GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
147
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Posted - 2015.06.30 10:20:16 -
[11] - Quote
Digits Kho wrote:Rek Seven wrote: Tactically C6's are the most dangerous system from a defensive standpoint, so there needs to be an incentive to live there. Endlessly rolling to fight the same people over and over again gets old fast and has caused many entities to break apart or leave C6 space (or wormholes all together).
That said, the time for a shakeup of wormhole mechanics has passed but i do agree that all wormholes should have to statics.
Can you name some that quit for that reason? Im just very behind on news.
Not many quit for that reason(unless they where evicted), Just alot never moved up to even more dangerous space. and preferred to stay where they where instead of take the risk.
To roll into a c6 1/112 chance of finding the one you want If there where 10 us tz corps who liked to pew you had a 1/12 chance of finding one of those groups.
There is 512 c5's
you now need 5 x 10 pvp groups of the same size tz to get any where near the same ratio or chance of making engagable contact, Last I checked we are no where near that in c5 space.
In regards to fighting the same people over again I dont know if you tried null space of late, but its exactly the same there. (at least for small gang) For the most part im happy to say we are pretty good friends with all the people we fought with alot. I wouldnt expect any one else to understand but at some point all you really want in the game is a place to call your own.
The t3 meta was getting a bit boring, I dont miss that at all.
Any way, I do the stuff I like in game now, a dash of pve, with a dosh of Pvp, and a sprinkle of salt mining. but on the doctors orders I have to cut back on the salt though.
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Rek Seven
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1978
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 11:18:50 -
[12] - Quote
Digits Kho wrote:Rek Seven wrote: Tactically C6's are the most dangerous system from a defensive standpoint, so there needs to be an incentive to live there. Endlessly rolling to fight the same people over and over again gets old fast and has caused many entities to break apart or leave C6 space (or wormholes all together).
That said, the time for a shakeup of wormhole mechanics has passed but i do agree that all wormholes should have to statics.
Can you name some that quit for that reason? Im just very behind on news.
My old group probe patrol (polarized) for one and i believe NOHO went to null... I don't have a list, sorry.
Most of the big groups that lived in C6 space a year ago have either downgraded to a lower class, fragmented to create separate groups or just moved out all together.
+1
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1436
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 11:29:59 -
[13] - Quote
SYJ left. Huge alliance at the time solely because they couldn't find pvp (generally outnumbered people).
C6 space lost its appeal since it's all renters and farmers, with minimal reason to go get rid of them (there so farmed to death the price of everything tanked).
There is a lot that can be done, from removing escalations or only having single escalations, to dual static c6, to downgrading c6 space to c5, to moving gas or assets out and into shattered space.
What's proper? Probably none of it
Yaay!!!!
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Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
81
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Posted - 2015.06.30 13:00:54 -
[14] - Quote
GizzyBoy wrote:
They are either there for pvp with some easy isk or they aren't, if there are other untapped ways to make easy isk, have at it seriously.. a group that logs in for 1 and a half hours a day should never be considered in any form of content type ratio, and if you do unless you like login traps should be treated as marginal content at best.
While what you are saying is true, there is no reason to not just downgrade your static from a c6 to a c5, and ect. (Most if not all bigger groups that left had c6 static irc.) While asking for changes and blaming renters, game mechanics, single static is a good/bad way to go about it (depends on your perspective), not doing anything in game to change/fix that stagnation makes you as much as part of the problem as the reasons stated. C6's space right now, is what players made it, and other players let those players made it into.
~lvl 60 paladin~
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4550
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Posted - 2015.06.30 13:30:34 -
[15] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Actually he's right. If you reduce the isk making potential in C6 space then there will be no point to living in a C6 system.
Tactically C6's are the most dangerous system from a defensive standpoint, so there needs to be an incentive to live there. Endlessly rolling to fight the same people over and over again gets old fast and has caused many entities to break apart or leave C6 space (or wormholes all together). i know this might be a foreign concept to you but some people actually enjoy PVP.
since you brought it up, chain rolling is for muppets who are too lazy to scan their chains. that's entirely your own fault. it also becomes a non issue if you add a second static.
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:C6's space right now, is what players made it, and other players let those players made it into. ^this is exactly what I said in my first response. like i said, the issues you see in C6 space are not due to mechanics.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1436
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Posted - 2015.06.30 13:37:18 -
[16] - Quote
Partially not due to mechanic.
We wouldn't be having this discussion if there were 500 C6 space wormholes vs the 100 that presently exist.
Or maybe we would.
Yaay!!!!
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Jonn Duune
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
8
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Posted - 2015.06.30 14:52:21 -
[17] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Partially not due to mechanic.
We wouldn't be having this discussion if there were 500 C6 space wormholes vs the 100 that presently exist.
Or maybe we would. it might be worse if there were 500 of them, you'd have the same amount of bears, just spread out over 5x the space. |
Wander Prian
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
73
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 15:14:14 -
[18] - Quote
Currently the only big corporations living in C6 that I know, are Dropbears and QEX. The rest are just farmers |
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
356
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 15:28:39 -
[19] - Quote
If c6 got a second static I (and others) would reconsider them.
~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
.ORLY is recruiting
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Jonn Duune
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
8
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Posted - 2015.06.30 15:35:09 -
[20] - Quote
calaretu wrote:If c6 got a second static I (and others) would reconsider them.
what kind of static would you want? a second j-space? or say a permanent null static for all c6s that always opens when spawned...? |
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Tim Nering
R3d Fire
91
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Posted - 2015.06.30 16:57:55 -
[21] - Quote
null static with that much mass sounds like a lot of fun =D |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
248
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 17:42:32 -
[22] - Quote
Tim Nering wrote:null static with that much mass sounds like a lot of fun =D
Well you can currently take a C3 or C2 and get a 3b null static, but no caps, so.....
Yeah, well, it's just like my-áopinion, man.
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calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
356
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 05:56:58 -
[23] - Quote
Jonn Duune wrote:calaretu wrote:If c6 got a second static I (and others) would reconsider them. what kind of static would you want? a second j-space? or say a permanent null static for all c6s that always opens when spawned...?
Second j-space static. K-space static in high class should be reserved for the shattered systems as is now
~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
.ORLY is recruiting
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4553
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 06:34:06 -
[24] - Quote
Statics to kspace are completely useless. mostly because they dont lead to wspace.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1437
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Posted - 2015.07.01 17:14:14 -
[25] - Quote
I'd do something dramatic to be honest. If you wanted a 2nd static in c6 space, it should be into shattered wormholes.
There are 100 shattered wormholes, about 110 c6. The 2nd static should be a shattered static that rolls every day or two. I'd increase the amount of shattered wandering wormholes into c5's by a significant amount.
to improve the viability, I'd remove repeated escalations out of c5 and c6 space (no more running sites 3 nights in a row, you can do it once, but then the site is done, you want a new escalation, you need a new site). I'd move the escalations into the shattered wormholes.
Connecting wormholes from c6 to shattered space are significantly larger, able to accept more than 3 capitals (6 to 15 roughly). These should also be more difficult to crit and should recharge overtime (not impossible, but it should not be capable of critting a hole for longer than 5 minutes without it regenerating a significant amount of its mass). In addition, if you roll the hole, it should spawn a k162 immediately on the otherside (this is solely into shattered space only and to keep people from closing off their c6 wormhole from everybody).
Shattered holes should have its own statics that spawn into other shattered wormholes (minimum 1 connection to another static shattered wormholes, but more like 2 to 3 connections).
I'd love to see c6 space move their profit margins into shattered space, with c5 having the ability to safari into shattered space. Escalations moved into shattered, dreads and carrier combat increased in shattered, a increase on the ability to move more caps through a hole (solely shattered connected holes), etc.
This would cut the profit of c5 and c6 space significantly by moving its farming capability into its static (like c2's function), and into shattered by moving the escalation fleet into it.
you can still farm your home hole, but the amount drops by over 3/4th. You'll have to farm the static.
If you surf through shattered space, you have the potential to run into every single c6 wormhole in one night.
Yaay!!!!
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Jonn Duune
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
8
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 05:24:52 -
[26] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:I'd do something dramatic to be honest. If you wanted a 2nd static in c6 space, it should be into shattered wormholes.
There are 100 shattered wormholes, about 110 c6. The 2nd static should be a shattered static that rolls every day or two. I'd increase the amount of shattered wandering wormholes into c5's by a significant amount.
to improve the viability, I'd remove repeated escalations out of c5 and c6 space (no more running sites 3 nights in a row, you can do it once, but then the site is done, you want a new escalation, you need a new site). I'd move the escalations into the shattered wormholes.
Connecting wormholes from c6 to shattered space are significantly larger, able to accept more than 3 capitals (6 to 15 roughly). These should also be more difficult to crit and should recharge overtime (not impossible, but it should not be capable of critting a hole for longer than 5 minutes without it regenerating a significant amount of its mass). In addition, if you roll the hole, it should spawn a k162 immediately on the otherside (this is solely into shattered space only and to keep people from closing off their c6 wormhole from everybody).
Shattered holes should have its own statics that spawn into other shattered wormholes (minimum 1 connection to another static shattered wormholes, but more like 2 to 3 connections).
I'd love to see c6 space move their profit margins into shattered space, with c5 having the ability to safari into shattered space. Escalations moved into shattered, dreads and carrier combat increased in shattered, a increase on the ability to move more caps through a hole (solely shattered connected holes), etc.
This would cut the profit of c5 and c6 space significantly by moving its farming capability into its static (like c2's function), and into shattered by moving the escalation fleet into it.
you can still farm your home hole, but the amount drops by over 3/4th. You'll have to farm the static.
If you surf through shattered space, you have the potential to run into every single c6 wormhole in one night.
I like that idea. |
Waldemar Pawlak
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
130
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 12:10:52 -
[27] - Quote
Guys... you are wrong.
C6 and c5s are fine as they are. And the ability to farm them is also optimal. I am not sure if you remember, but WH space needs to be open to normal people. Currently there exists a hegemony of a few WH groups and making farming even more difficult would mean that those groups who already have a great advantage would only reinforce their position. And while c5 and c6 are on the high end of pve difficulty they still need to seem attractive and doable to less experienced and newer to w-space groups.
What I think you may consider to be the problem is the fact that there are a few groups who rent/farm c5s and c6s. This situation has been created by the players and the players can undo it. A recent example for an attempted coup is the krabs uprising. If you want to change the face of c5 and c6s go and take them or get in and make a difference. And stop whining that your income per hour is too low in your c3. Go and take a c5. Or rent it.
For recruitment:
1) Join our public channel: Hard Knocks
2) Follow the steps in MOTD of the channel.
3) Profit!
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Kalel Nimrott
Sentu Demina Corpa
1158
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 13:41:38 -
[28] - Quote
Could it be, maybe, MAYBE, that living in wormholes just got old? |
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
357
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 15:21:03 -
[29] - Quote
Waldemar Pawlak wrote:Guys... you are wrong.
C6 and c5s are fine as they are. And the ability to farm them is also optimal. I am not sure if you remember, but WH space needs to be open to normal people. Currently there exists a hegemony of a few WH groups and making farming even more difficult would mean that those groups who already have a great advantage would only reinforce their position. And while c5 and c6 are on the high end of pve difficulty they still need to seem attractive and doable to less experienced and newer to w-space groups.
What I think you may consider to be the problem is the fact that there are a few groups who rent/farm c5s and c6s. This situation has been created by the players and the players can undo it. A recent example for an attempted coup is the krabs uprising. If you want to change the face of c5 and c6s go and take them or get in and make a difference. And stop whining that your income per hour is too low in your c3. Go and take a c5. Or rent it.
This is only partly true. If people desired to live in c6 for anything but farming then the renter issue would solve itself. But as is the only ones who desires to live in c6 space are farmers. Atm c6 space doesnt have anything to make them preferable to other classes. If you want to hunt in null then c5 is better. If you want to hunt in wormholes then c4 is better. Why should really anyone choose to live in c6 space?
~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
.ORLY is recruiting
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Bleedingthrough
Project AIice
170
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 15:38:40 -
[30] - Quote
Sadly, the GÇ£hegemony of a few WH groupsGÇ¥(alias GÇ£the KrabkingsGÇ¥) is not able to provide a moral code that helps C5+-space to strive, they are part of the problem.
Brothers, we have abandoned Bob! IGÇÖd say burn the temples of the false prophets to the ground and he will enlighten us again. We shall not stop till the last farmhole is gone.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
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Digits Kho
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
67
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 18:45:26 -
[31] - Quote
Wander Prian wrote:Currently the only big corporations living in C6 that I know, are Dropbears and QEX. The rest are just farmers
And guess who evicted / evicts even some of the more of less pvp grps ( small ones) and seeds farmers into WH space including c6 |
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
82
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 21:00:43 -
[32] - Quote
calaretu wrote:
If you want to hunt in null then c5 is better. If you want to hunt in wormholes then c4 is better.
You can hunt anywhere regardless of the class of wormhole you live in, and always find content, if you are competent and don't want to be spoon fed.
~lvl 60 paladin~
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4554
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 23:31:14 -
[33] - Quote
Waldemar Pawlak wrote:...And while c5 and c6 are on the high end of pve difficulty.... I got weird looks for laughing out loud at work at this >_< I guess hitting warp, lock and F1 COULD be considered difficult. If youre a blind quadriplegic 4 year old...
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
499
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 08:04:15 -
[34] - Quote
Bleedingthrough wrote:Sadly, the GÇ£hegemony of a few WH groupsGÇ¥(alias GÇ£the KrabkingsGÇ¥) is not able to provide a moral code that helps C5+-space to strive, they are part of the problem.
Brothers, we have abandoned Bob! IGÇÖd say burn the temples of the false prophets to the ground and he will enlighten us again. We shall not stop till the last farmhole is gone.
hey |
Grm Makentor
Low Drag.
31
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 08:30:09 -
[35] - Quote
hello how r u shot any good sleepy drones lately? |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
2498
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 09:00:18 -
[36] - Quote
All wormholes should have one combat site only, which immediately respawns when completed. That way, when you are Krabbing or escalating or whatever, people don't need to hit d-scan, they just warp to the sole anomaly in system and tackle you. The opposite of this drawback being that it respawns forever, with no end. Like an incursion.
This would mean that, a) krabs would be drawn by unlimited ISK faucet b) krabs would never sign off and would go on 40-hour escalation benders c) elite PVPers would just roll statics and because of b) would murder more krabs d) pineapple
GizzyBoy wrote:
To roll into a c6 1/112 chance of finding the one you want If there where 10 us tz corps who liked to pew you had a 1/12 chance of finding one of those groups.
There is 512 c5's
you now need 5 x 10 pvp groups of the same size tz to get any where near the same ratio or chance of making engagable contact, Last I checked we are no where near that in c5 space.
Actually, not to appear smarter than you in any way, or indeed more mathematically literate (I did get an E- in high school for maths, true story), but;
if there were 10 US TZ corps in C6 space you would actually have a 10 in 112 chance.
Your second part, you claim you need 5 times the number of corps in the US TZ to make the PVP in C5's as likely as a 10 in 112 chance.
Now, unless I'm wrong with my E- highschool math capability, ten times 5 corps is 50 corps. So you're saying you need 50 corps in 512 C5's to equal a 10 in 112 probability of finding content.
512/50 = 10.24 112/10 = 11.2
If you rage roll a C6 your last connection has no chance of influencing the content of your new connection. A 50 in 512 chance is distinctly different than a 10 in 112.
Similarly, if you are a C6 resident in C6 space hunting US TZ corporations, you actually have a 9/111 chance because you are you are one of the hunters living in a C6, so you eliminate one of the ten PVP corps and one of the wormholes.
As a C5 resident in a C5, you actually have a 49/511 chance.
511/49 = 10.42 111/9 = 12.33
That's a 20% difference in the likelihood of PVPing under your maths, which I think we can all agree, is not insignificantly different. To approach the same probability of finding PVP in C6 space as in C5 space you would need there to be only 42-43 US TZ PVP corps.
That's substantially more achievable.
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
|
Waldemar Pawlak
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
130
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 10:07:32 -
[37] - Quote
Digits Kho wrote: And guess who evicted / evicts even some of the more of less pvp grps ( small ones) and seeds farmers into WH space including c6
I can assure you it was not an army of forums alts... have some decency and post from your main, Anon.
Jack Miton wrote:Waldemar Pawlak wrote:...And while c5 and c6 are on the high end of pve difficulty.... I got weird looks for laughing out loud at work at this >_< I guess hitting warp, lock and F1 COULD be considered difficult. If youre a blind quadriplegic 4 year old... Look, we all know you like your ISK, that's fine. But dont insult us by pretending it's difficult to make ISK in wspace because anyone who has run sites before knows it's roughly on par with level 3 missions difficulty wise.
John... If you are trolling I will not take the bait. If you are not trolling I will tell you that you are wrong and I am not going to use any abusive language, however you do deserve it if the latter is the case.
For recruitment:
1) Join our public channel: Hard Knocks
2) Follow the steps in MOTD of the channel.
3) Profit!
|
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
2499
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 10:29:19 -
[38] - Quote
mate. He called you a carebear.
and a low-skill rent-boy carebear, at that!
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
|
Waldemar Pawlak
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
130
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 10:45:27 -
[39] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:mate. He called you a carebear.
and a low-skill rent-boy carebear, at that!
Ah, that I don't mind. I am more concerned with the fact that in his assessment he doesn't take logistics and isk investments required to run c5 and c6 sites. :|
For recruitment:
1) Join our public channel: Hard Knocks
2) Follow the steps in MOTD of the channel.
3) Profit!
|
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
2500
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 14:48:26 -
[40] - Quote
Well, he wouldn't. he's the authority on quad- and penta- and hexa-boxing cap escalations since Aporcrypha.
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
|
|
Digits Kho
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 15:11:19 -
[41] - Quote
Waldemar Pawlak wrote: I can assure you it was not an army of forums alts... have some decency and post from your main, Anon.
Apparently not being in a corp for a couple weeks now makes a character an alt.
Did i get that right? |
Waldemar Pawlak
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
130
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 22:16:39 -
[42] - Quote
Digits Kho wrote:Waldemar Pawlak wrote: I can assure you it was not an army of forums alts... have some decency and post from your main, Anon.
Apparently not being in a corp for a couple weeks now makes a character an alt. Did i get that right?
Apologies, I mixed it up. Sorry :( me bad.
For recruitment:
1) Join our public channel: Hard Knocks
2) Follow the steps in MOTD of the channel.
3) Profit!
|
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
196
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 20:53:21 -
[43] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:
You can hunt anywhere regardless of the class of wormhole you live in, and always find content, if you are competent and don't want to be spoon fed.
This is bullshit dude, wh space is even emptier then null, even if you scan 5 holes away from your home you still can not find anything to shoot. Especialy in c5 and c6 space. What c6 space needs is 2 or 3 more pvp groups that can rival the blue donut. But that is not going to happen, any potential pvp group will be burned to the ground by the blue donut. The thing that ccp dreads the most in null sec (someone conquering everything) has already happened in c6 space. And with the next bunch of nerfs even they will be getting less content because of less null secs. And the fleet warp thingy will destroy small group content.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
Fleet warp proposal = the rubix cube is back into eve especialy the second part of the saying.
Wh players need to adapt, null sec players get the rules changed.
|
Waldemar Pawlak
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
130
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 21:23:19 -
[44] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote: What c6 space needs is 2 or 3 more pvp groups that can rival the blue donut. But that is not going to happen, any potential pvp group will be burned to the ground by the blue donut.
You know nothing. Neither of the blue doughnut or pvping in c6s.
unimatrix0030 wrote: And the fleet warp thingy will destroy small group content.
Have you ever considered getting larger groups then? I don't understand people whining constantly about small numbers and stuff. Start recruiting, dummy! And don't make false promises of being an elite pvp entity while in theory you are a carebear! Here. I gave you a solution for a successful corp. Now go and do some work.
For recruitment:
1) Join our public channel: Hard Knocks
2) Follow the steps in MOTD of the channel.
3) Profit!
|
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
196
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 21:58:27 -
[45] - Quote
Waldemar Pawlak wrote:
You know nothing. Neither of the blue doughnut or pvping in c6s.
Have you ever considered getting larger groups then? I don't understand people whining constantly about small numbers and stuff. Start recruiting, dummy! And don't make false promises of being an elite pvp entity while in theory you are a carebear! Here. I gave you a solution for a successful corp. Now go and do some work.
Hah, there is no pvp in c6 space, and that is just the way you guys like it. Try evicting some more pvp alliances. Besides you guys recruited most the guys from the alliances you evicted. You care more about carebear renting.
I have run about 2 sleeper sites this year and those weren't even capital escalations.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
Fleet warp proposal = the rubix cube is back into eve especialy the second part of the saying.
Wh players need to adapt, null sec players get the rules changed.
|
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
83
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 22:45:43 -
[46] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote: This is bullshit dude, wh space is even emptier then null, even if you scan 5 holes away from your home you still can not find anything to shoot. Especialy in c5 and c6 space. What c6 space needs is 2 or 3 more pvp groups that can rival the blue donut. But that is not going to happen, any potential pvp group will be burned to the ground by the blue donut. The thing that ccp dreads the most in null sec (someone conquering everything) has already happened in c6 space. And with the next bunch of nerfs even they will be getting less content because of less null secs. And the fleet warp thingy will destroy small group content.
Maybe instead of whining on the forums, go and do something about it, if it is how you say it is.
~lvl 60 paladin~
|
Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4555
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 00:23:42 -
[47] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote:And the fleet warp thingy will destroy small group content. ^this is such garbage. it wont have ANY affect on small gang fights because guess what? small gang fights dont involve giant fleets that you need to fleet warp! you've been in wspace long enough to have figured out how warpins and bookmarks work, i suggest you use them. if not, maybe wspace isnt for you.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
|
Anthar Thebess
1210
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 08:31:02 -
[48] - Quote
Make C6 heavily connected to sov upgrade. If you close null connection, you get new one to other system that have this upgrade.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
Rek Seven
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1979
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 09:21:50 -
[49] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Waldemar Pawlak wrote:...And while c5 and c6 are on the high end of pve difficulty.... I got weird looks for laughing out loud at work at this >_< I guess hitting warp, lock and F1 COULD be considered difficult. If youre a blind quadriplegic 4 year old... Look, we all know you like your ISK, that's fine. But dont insult us by pretending it's difficult to make ISK in wspace because anyone who has run sites before knows it's roughly on par with level 3 missions difficulty wise.
I'd be giving funny looks if there was some neck beard laughing at his computer in my workplace to.
Again, you're wrong and the other guys was right. In relation to other wormhole class systems, C5 and C6 pve is the most challenging... But that's not to say it's actually a challenge if you know what you're doing.
+1
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Rek Seven
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1979
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 09:29:50 -
[50] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:I'd do something dramatic to be honest. If you wanted a 2nd static in c6 space, it should be into shattered wormholes.
There are 100 shattered wormholes, about 110 c6. The 2nd static should be a shattered static that rolls every day or two. I'd increase the amount of shattered wandering wormholes into c5's by a significant amount.
to improve the viability, I'd remove repeated escalations out of c5 and c6 space (no more running sites 3 nights in a row, you can do it once, but then the site is done, you want a new escalation, you need a new site). I'd move the escalations into the shattered wormholes.
Connecting wormholes from c6 to shattered space are significantly larger, able to accept more than 3 capitals (6 to 15 roughly). These should also be more difficult to crit and should recharge overtime (not impossible, but it should not be capable of critting a hole for longer than 5 minutes without it regenerating a significant amount of its mass). In addition, if you roll the hole, it should spawn a k162 immediately on the otherside (this is solely into shattered space only and to keep people from closing off their c6 wormhole from everybody).
Shattered holes should have its own statics that spawn into other shattered wormholes (minimum 1 connection to another static shattered wormholes, but more like 2 to 3 connections).
I'd love to see c6 space move their profit margins into shattered space, with c5 having the ability to safari into shattered space. Escalations moved into shattered, dreads and carrier combat increased in shattered, a increase on the ability to move more caps through a hole (solely shattered connected holes), etc.
This would cut the profit of c5 and c6 space significantly by moving its farming capability into its static (like c2's function), and into shattered by moving the escalation fleet into it.
you can still farm your home hole, but the amount drops by over 3/4th. You'll have to farm the static.
If you surf through shattered space, you have the potential to run into every single c6 wormhole in one night.
That's a pretty good idea!
Personally i'm hoping that wormholes don't get left out in the cold when ccp update the structures. They should allow the building of the new gates in C6 systems which create a link to the shattered systems. It would be the same as having a second unstable static but someone could come along and destroy it.
+1
|
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Digits Kho
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 09:37:16 -
[51] - Quote
I think people would be too scared to move their capitals out of their home system tbh. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1185
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 10:02:59 -
[52] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote: Again, you're wrong and the other guys was right. In relation to other wormhole class systems, C5 and C6 pve is the most challenging... But that's not to say it's actually a challenge if you know what you're doing.
Try to run c1/c2 anoms as a 3mil SP newbro. That's a challenge. Semi-afking your three+ alts through sites really is not, especially if there aren't even any triggers you could skrew up. |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
620
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 11:26:02 -
[53] - Quote
C6-space is for farming. You don't like it? Change it. But the perception is years old. Others farm anomalies, we farm krabs.
Best thing in this thread is how unfair life is for Viperfleet and complaining they have to scan for content. People go to where content grows. Do you still wonder why recruitment escapes you? |
Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4555
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 11:31:38 -
[54] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Rek Seven wrote: Again, you're wrong and the other guys was right. In relation to other wormhole class systems, C5 and C6 pve is the most challenging... But that's not to say it's actually a challenge if you know what you're doing.
Try to run c1/c2 anoms as a 3mil SP newbro. That's a challenge. Semi-afking your three+ alts through sites really is not, especially if there aren't even any triggers you could skrew up. it's fine mate, Rek's career is made almost entirely of posting incorrect 'facts' on the forums. at least he's finally moved to NS so maybe we'll be rid of his ignorance :)
Rek, sure, C5-6 anoms require the most 'skills' to run, since you need a bunch of raw SP for the ship that are used. as for actual player skill? theyre beyond trivial.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
|
Rek Seven
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1979
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 12:54:57 -
[55] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Rek Seven wrote: Again, you're wrong and the other guys was right. In relation to other wormhole class systems, C5 and C6 pve is the most challenging... But that's not to say it's actually a challenge if you know what you're doing.
Try to run c1/c2 anoms as a 3mil SP newbro. That's a challenge. Semi-afking your three+ alts through sites really is not, especially if there aren't even any triggers you could skrew up. it's fine mate, Rek's career is made almost entirely of posting incorrect 'facts' on the forums. at least he's finally moved to NS so maybe we'll be rid of his ignorance :) Rek, sure, C5-6 anoms require the most 'skills' to run, since you need a bunch of raw SP for the ship that are used. as for actual player skill? theyre beyond trivial.
No one said anything about skill level and sp and the beginning of the conversation. You were talking about challenge and if your telling me that you find it harder to turn a C2 site than a C6, you're more of an idiot that I thought.
The only one that's ignorant here is you. You spend your time off topic posting, trolling and misunderstanding what people are saying.
... and no, null is just as dull as the rest of eve, so you can look forward to me coming back to the wormhole space i know best
+1
|
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1463
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 14:31:09 -
[56] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/bN6Luw3.jpg?1
Yaay!!!!
|
Seraxi Xadi
Navi Vault Two Inch Terror
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 16:03:06 -
[57] - Quote
just give the sleepers some really glitched meth so they go a bit loopy and attack.... but thats right tee are just sleeper drones. im sure the actual sleepers will awaken soon ;) |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
250
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 17:39:02 -
[58] - Quote
Seraxi Xadi wrote:just give the sleepers some really glitched meth so they go a bit loopy and attack.... but thats right tee are just sleeper drones. im sure the actual sleepers will awaken soon ;)
sleepers bash POS keep players busy and lots of isk. Not to mention cleaning the inactive structures, and im talking dreads :) sleeper dreads :) or a mother ship.
2 Day countdown to lt you prepare or to let others plan to attack you while the sleepers do. This created an attack from 2 fronts and may be enough to topple some of the big ****** cap filled systems that are pretty much impregnable.
P.S. hi Moo Moo its dudz :P
Hi Dudz,
So what you're proposing is "let's give the big groups nice fat isk injections from time to time while casually wiping out smaller, fledgling groups".
I mean, yes. It would be an interesting sideshow, and yes it would perhaps take out some inactive POSes or something. On the other hand, if there's no warning you're gonna take out smaller groups. If there is warning, then the people with 20 farm systems just get a nice cash bump from time to time by moving an appropriate fleet into position beforehand.
Anyway, this has been proposed before, and many WH groups think sleeper faction drops would be fun, but CCP hasn't shown any interest in the idea in the past and there's no reason to expect it to gain traction now.
Instead they're taking away our null connections because they hate us and want to deny us pvp content so high-end wormholes can accomodate more, better, more dedicated carebears/Krabs/lobsters/other shellfish.
P.S. Dudzy come back, you can blame it all on me
Yeah, well, it's just like my-áopinion, man.
|
Seraxi Xadi
Navi Vault Two Inch Terror
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 18:08:52 -
[59] - Quote
I sold maniva hehe and ill be moon mining now :) but i may have spare toon to play with you guys :) and thans for the link heheheh
and yeah kill the smaller entities :P perhaps they can get help from people :) then there would be a reason to start small corp in lower class oles with less devastating POS attacks. (c1 c2 c3) can all be handled by a good large POS with a gunner.
c4 need a fleet of sub caps around 10 ad a POS gunner
C5-C6 need a big popper fleet and POS gunner (but only the mother ship in C6. :)
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:Seraxi Xadi wrote:just give the sleepers some really glitched meth so they go a bit loopy and attack.... but thats right tee are just sleeper drones. im sure the actual sleepers will awaken soon ;)
sleepers bash POS keep players busy and lots of isk. Not to mention cleaning the inactive structures, and im talking dreads :) sleeper dreads :) or a mother ship.
2 Day countdown to lt you prepare or to let others plan to attack you while the sleepers do. This created an attack from 2 fronts and may be enough to topple some of the big ****** cap filled systems that are pretty much impregnable.
P.S. hi Moo Moo its dudz :P Hi Dudz, So what you're proposing is "let's give the big groups nice fat isk injections from time to time while casually wiping out smaller, fledgling groups". I mean, yes. It would be an interesting sideshow, and yes it would perhaps take out some inactive POSes or something. On the other hand, if there's no warning you're gonna take out smaller groups. If there is warning, then the people with 20 farm systems just get a nice cash bump from time to time by moving an appropriate fleet into position beforehand. Anyway, this has been proposed before, and many WH groups think sleeper faction drops would be fun, but CCP hasn't shown any interest in the idea in the past and there's no reason to expect it to gain traction now. Instead they're taking away our null connections because they hate us and want to deny us pvp content so high-end wormholes can accomodate more, better, more dedicated carebears/Krabs/lobsters/other shellfish. P.S. Dudzy come back, you can blame it all on me
|
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 18:26:16 -
[60] - Quote
I would think the best way to promote PVP in WH space would be to somehow force players to put themselves in harms way.
Maybe its too easy to move goods out of these ISK farms. Removing or drastically reducing K-Space wandering WH from 4, 5 & 6 and limiting connections to similar classes IE . 6 connect to 6, 5 and a few 4s.
This would get rid of the wait till there's a nice wandering WH to High for shipping everything out and replace it with convoys moving through WH space
- just an idea ...
CCP has tried to improve PVP by making WH a super highway network - thinking more connection = more contact. They may be better off making into wagon-trails where things can be ambushed |
|
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
621
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 21:55:09 -
[61] - Quote
If you can't fix the culture, you can't fix consensual PvP.
There are many ways you can change things to bring people outside of the force field. It'll certainly increases gank opportunities for others, but it won't fix risk-aversion.
Something about the w-space community just likes to talk rather than act. It's akin to solely relying on prayer to cure cancer.
If you want PvP to thrive in C6, you're going to have to work for it. Systematically install PvP corporations in place of the farmers. Take every fight you can, even if outnumbered and/or outclassed. C6 space would be great for PvP with so few of them, but the old guard domesticated it by being complacent, too comfortable in their own home, barely having to grind for ISK, turning it into the perfect habitat for bears to thrive.
Again, everyone thinks they have the answer to fix PvP here or there, but they're all just making excuses for their lack of courage to just say, "Fuckit, let's take this fight." |
Waldemar Pawlak
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
135
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 22:54:37 -
[62] - Quote
Getting more pvp opportunities is v simple in c6s: make them worth fighting for. It's all about the money. Always. Make the rewards for pve better in c6s and you will see ppl flowing into that environment! Show me da karrot and I'll be foyne with a shtick in me butt. Risk & reward. Simples.
For recruitment:
1) Join our public channel: Hard Knocks
2) Follow the steps in MOTD of the channel.
3) Profit!
|
Bleedingthrough
Project AIice
170
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 23:04:06 -
[63] - Quote
Waldemar Pawlak wrote:Getting more pvp opportunities is v simple in c6s: make them worth fighting for. It's all about the money. Always. Make the rewards for pve better in c6s and you will see ppl flowing into that environment! Show me da karrot and I'll be foyne with a shtick in me butt. Risk & reward. Simples.
I don't think it is as simple as that. Locking your system down for an entire ratting cycle is boring PvPers to death.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
|
Jonn Duune
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
8
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 01:22:14 -
[64] - Quote
Waldemar Pawlak wrote:Getting more pvp opportunities is v simple in c6s: make them worth fighting for. It's all about the money. Always. Make the rewards for pve better in c6s and you will see ppl flowing into that environment! Show me da karrot and I'll be foyne with a shtick in me butt. Risk & reward. Simples.
On paper that sounds nice, but a bear c6 corp will almost insta-roll connections that spawn. I'd suggest maybe doing something like a 300 mil per jump hole with say a 25 bil mass limit if you want to go that route.
Realistically you need to make more ways into a c6, that are harder to crush.
|
Epsilon Artiste
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 02:07:01 -
[65] - Quote
Jonn Duune wrote:Waldemar Pawlak wrote:Getting more pvp opportunities is v simple in c6s: make them worth fighting for. It's all about the money. Always. Make the rewards for pve better in c6s and you will see ppl flowing into that environment! Show me da karrot and I'll be foyne with a shtick in me butt. Risk & reward. Simples. On paper that sounds nice, but a bear c6 corp will almost insta-roll connections that spawn. I'd suggest maybe doing something like a 300 mil per jump hole with say a 25 bil mass limit if you want to go that route. Realistically you need to make more ways into a c6, that are harder to crush.
Give C6s a frigate static :P |
Anthar Thebess
1211
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 08:39:22 -
[66] - Quote
Epsilon Artiste wrote: Give C6s a frigate static :P
Better make all static mass varying +- 45% mass ( so you don't know how much ships you need to close it without leaving half of your alts on the other side.
Give all static also high regeneration capabilities , so unless someone really want to close the static, it will stay open for whole lifetime.
Constant , connection will be more than perfect thing to keep those wormholes full of content.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
Rek Seven
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1981
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 09:14:40 -
[67] - Quote
How about we stop asking ccp to **** up the mechanics anymore than they already have and instead, add new tools and content that will make wormholes interesting again?
+1
|
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
909
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 13:15:04 -
[68] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:If you want PvP to thrive in C6, you're going to have to work for it. Systematically install PvP corporations in place of the farmers. Take every fight you can, even if outnumbered and/or outclassed. I am not really sure this is what needs to happen, particularly about the last part.
Stalking, gaining intel, forcing fights - as much components of PvP they are as shooting stuff. If people just sit in W-space waiting for someone to announce their presence to fight, then you are probably looking at equivalent of arranged fight. See, it's basically what was going on one way or another, occasionally, in WH space.
You can bring fights no matter what, get some "gfs" from neighbours, be left in peace generally - because you bring content and evicting you in not only annoying, but also counterproductive to their goals. On the other hand, you may POS up every time and be evicted if you annoy someone enough with your refusal to interact with them.
People naturally will try to look for a compromise between throwing all their income into someone's hungry maw and being labelled as bears and get themselves into real trouble. Meanwhile, other guy is not interested in pressuring that "content creator" corp too much and isn't interested in curbstomps either...
Eventually you end up with environment where not-quite-arranged fights with not much at stake except for ships you bring become norm.
Add lack of incentive to fight for territory. Reasons are basic WH mech: You will only hold one system without splintering into what effectively can be considered several smaller entities. Your neighbourhood is your statics and you have a lot to choose from - effectively entire New Eden is yours anyway, no matter the hole you occupy. Your resources are similar to what that system next door has to offer. In addition, you have an ability to entrench yourself pretty deep.
And even if you go out of your way to make alliances, seed some system with forces, attack somebody... What is there to reward your victory? Some fun times grinding structures, mostly. Well, maybe some nice drops from opponent's towers and all, unless he makes sure to deny you that - and hey, you were rich enough in the first place, so it's a nice bonus at best...
Tl;dr: what you are suggesting is more or less what's going on, and what we have now is consequences of natural order of things and game mechanics IMO. |
TurboX3
Hax. Wrecked.
129
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 16:11:09 -
[69] - Quote
I would like a C6 with 2 static's (random c6s, c5s, c4s etc) and null-sec (Static).
No Trolling Please
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Arcturus Gallow
eXceed Inc.
13
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 01:45:26 -
[70] - Quote
What Wspace would need would be new blood.
I tried to create this, but setting up in high class as a new group is very hard. First making money as a group in C5 is not as easy as most seems to think.
I dont know what kind of spawn rate you have in c6, but in c5 space, if you have a combat anomaly a day you're lucky. You rarely have 5 combat anoms at once. And as a new group having enough capital/rapier/loki pilot is not easy. Sure when you are in one of the groups that can always have 2 carriers 6 dreads and a few lokis to login every time you fancy to run sites, its easier to make money. And if I understand correctly, living in C6 space grants you more sites than C5 (and more profitable).
When you struggle to make money its hard to convince your player base to consistenly bring T3s (assuming they can fly them) to fights where more numerous and more experienced people will more than likely beat you most of the time. In the course of 5 month we had 5 or 6 enjoyable fights, half of them because the opponent (noho and lazerhawks) were kind enough to limit what they brought to the table. As new comers, we lost these fights, and the more fight you lose, the more you need money to replace your loss to fight the next day.
I really tried to make my corp be a pvp corp, but having half the members struggling with making money was a big issue. Having only a handful of people with the skills and ships to make capital escalation makes them burn out. And yes you also run sites in your static without escalation, which we did. But this is not incredible money, and you need to farm like crazy if you want to pay the fuel and your pvp ships, and you end up farming more than you want. You cant just install pvp groups in wormholes like that. These groups needs to already be at a certain level of development, average skillpoints and competency.
I tried to take a highsec corp to C5 living in less than a year, and it was a mistake. You really need a good reserve of t3, dread and carrier pilot to thrive in highclass, and a group with mostly one year old pilots wont have this.
So where do you find groups with the required qualities, or how do you form them, given that many players will prefere to join established and stronger groups.
I also think C5 space is too vast. Ragerolling there is a waste of time especially with current activity levels. Scanning big chains has never been more successful in my experience. C6 with C6 static is the best place to make money and find wh pvp theoretically, this is were wormholers should focus in installing pvp corps. |
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4559
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 04:31:04 -
[71] - Quote
Arcturus Gallow wrote:What Wspace would need would be new blood.
I tried to create this, but setting up in high class as a new group is very hard. First making money as a group in C5 is not as easy as most seems to think.
I dont know what kind of spawn rate you have in c6, but in c5 space, if you have a combat anomaly a day you're lucky. You rarely have 5 combat anoms at once. And as a new group having enough capital/rapier/loki pilot is not easy. Sure when you are in one of the groups that can always have 2 carriers 6 dreads and a few lokis to login every time you fancy to run sites, its easier to make money. And if I understand correctly, living in C6 space grants you more sites than C5 (and more profitable).
When you struggle to make money its hard to convince your player base to consistenly bring T3s (assuming they can fly them) to fights where more numerous and more experienced people will more than likely beat you most of the time. In the course of 5 month we had 5 or 6 enjoyable fights, half of them because the opponent (noho and lazerhawks) were kind enough to limit what they brought to the table. As new comers, we lost these fights, and the more fight you lose, the more you need money to replace your loss to fight the next day.
I really tried to make my corp be a pvp corp, but having half the members struggling with making money was a big issue. Having only a handful of people with the skills and ships to make capital escalation makes them burn out. And yes you also run sites in your static without escalation, which we did. But this is not incredible money, and you need to farm like crazy if you want to pay the fuel and your pvp ships, and you end up farming more than you want. You cant just install pvp groups in wormholes like that. These groups needs to already be at a certain level of development, average skillpoints and competency.
I tried to take a highsec corp to C5 living in less than a year, and it was a mistake. You really need a good reserve of t3, dread and carrier pilot to thrive in highclass, and a group with mostly one year old pilots wont have this.
So where do you find groups with the required qualities, or how do you form them, given that many players will prefere to join established and stronger groups.
I also think C5 space is too vast. Ragerolling there is a waste of time especially with current activity levels. Scanning big chains has never been more successful in my experience. C6 with C6 static is the best place to make money and find wh pvp theoretically, this is were wormholers should focus in installing pvp corps.
^This is EXACTLY what the problem is.
Everyone is complaining that there is no PVP in C5-6 WHs but what do they actually complain about when push comes to shove? Oh, it's too hard to get PVP corps into wspace because it's hard to make money and spawn rates are too low and skills needed to cap escalate are too high and site running is tiring and people gank you while running sites and then you have to replace your pve ships and then you have no isk and cant pvp with the 'good' corps because theyre better at pve than us... cmon man, give me a break. youre not complaining that it's too hard to pvp in high end space, youre complaining that its too hard to pve there! and youre by no means the only one.
The prevailing mentality these days is PVE is the most important thing because it makes you isk to fuel the PVP war machine! Instead of this self defeating attitude which only leads to increasingly more PVE and increasingly less PVP, try looking at it the other way: PVP is the only thing that matters. Don't run pve, dont schedule farming ops, dont fund your corp off PVE tax. That way you cant actually spend some time PVPing and on the rare occasion that you need to, run a few sites to pay the fuel bills or replace ships.
If you have access to running C5-6 sites with caps, you'll be amazed how rarely you actually need to run them if your corp is legitimately PVP focused.
Changing your corp to this mind set is also by far the easiest way to get rid of dead weight who are just along for the ride which is something most corps need to do.
The only part of this post i agree with is this:
Quote:C6 with C6 static is the best place to *snip* find wh pvp theoretically, this is were wormholers should focus in installing pvp corps. This is 100% accurate but people with the means to do so have taken very good care to make sure PVP corps are not allowed to return to C6 space. (C6 space is far worse than C5 space for safe farming and always has been.)
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
197
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 05:37:34 -
[72] - Quote
If i read Arcturus post corretly he probably would not have enough people to run a capital escalation if he did cut the "dead weight". The result is that his c5/c6 crew that is left would be moving to c4-c1 space. Wich mean less pve, and even less likely to get back into c5/c6 space. O and have you tried recruiting when you say you hardly do pve? Going pvp only will work for a while untill some members can not keep up isk wise and then you will start hemoraging members. And even then if you are constantly outnumbered, people will start to lose the want to get into the fight.
c5/c6 space need well skilled large groups, wich makes starting in c5/c6 to be realy hard.
O and c5 space to big is very wrong, it is the only thing that keeps you from getting pounched on constantly.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
Fleet warp proposal = the rubix cube is back into eve especialy the second part of the saying.
Wh players need to adapt, null sec players get the rules changed.
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GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
157
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 05:54:20 -
[73] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Hidden Fremen wrote:If you want PvP to thrive in C6, you're going to have to work for it. Systematically install PvP corporations in place of the farmers. Take every fight you can, even if outnumbered and/or outclassed. I am not really sure this is what needs to happen, particularly about the last part. Stalking, gaining intel, forcing fights - as much components of PvP they are as shooting stuff. If people just sit in W-space waiting for someone to announce their presence to fight, then you are probably looking at equivalent of arranged fight. See, it's basically what was going on one way or another, occasionally, in WH space. You can bring fights no matter what, get some "gfs" from neighbours, be left in peace generally - because you bring content and evicting you in not only annoying, but also counterproductive to their goals. On the other hand, you may POS up every time and be evicted if you annoy someone enough with your refusal to interact with them. People naturally will try to look for a compromise between throwing all their income into someone's hungry maw and being labelled as bears and get themselves into real trouble. Meanwhile, other guy is not interested in pressuring that "content creator" corp too much and isn't interested in curbstomps either... Eventually you end up with environment where not-quite-arranged fights with not much at stake except for ships you bring become norm. Add lack of incentive to fight for territory. Reasons are basic WH mech: You will only hold one system without splintering into what effectively can be considered several smaller entities. Your neighbourhood is your statics and you have a lot to choose from - effectively entire New Eden is yours anyway, no matter the hole you occupy. Your resources are similar to what that system next door has to offer. In addition, you have an ability to entrench yourself pretty deep. And even if you go out of your way to make alliances, seed some system with forces, attack somebody... What is there to reward your victory? Some fun times grinding structures, mostly. Well, maybe some nice drops from opponent's towers and all, unless he makes sure to deny you that - and hey, you were rich enough in the first place, so it's a nice bonus at best... Tl;dr: what you are suggesting is more or less what's going on, and what we have now is consequences of natural order of things and game mechanics IMO.
For the most part its never about territory, it should never be about territory thats whats so great about wh space, unless you are actually after a particular wh, you can battle and what ever and not have to stress about ohnoes ever fight is an eviction attempt. even after the fight you can still be friends share roams, intell channels, even help each other out if some ones stuck etc.
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calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
358
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 06:19:14 -
[74] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:I'd do something dramatic to be honest. If you wanted a 2nd static in c6 space, it should be into shattered wormholes.
There are 100 shattered wormholes, about 110 c6. The 2nd static should be a shattered static that rolls every day or two. I'd increase the amount of shattered wandering wormholes into c5's by a significant amount.
to improve the viability, I'd remove repeated escalations out of c5 and c6 space (no more running sites 3 nights in a row, you can do it once, but then the site is done, you want a new escalation, you need a new site). I'd move the escalations into the shattered wormholes.
Connecting wormholes from c6 to shattered space are significantly larger, able to accept more than 3 capitals (6 to 15 roughly). These should also be more difficult to crit and should recharge overtime (not impossible, but it should not be capable of critting a hole for longer than 5 minutes without it regenerating a significant amount of its mass). In addition, if you roll the hole, it should spawn a k162 immediately on the otherside (this is solely into shattered space only and to keep people from closing off their c6 wormhole from everybody).
Shattered holes should have its own statics that spawn into other shattered wormholes (minimum 1 connection to another static shattered wormholes, but more like 2 to 3 connections).
I'd love to see c6 space move their profit margins into shattered space, with c5 having the ability to safari into shattered space. Escalations moved into shattered, dreads and carrier combat increased in shattered, a increase on the ability to move more caps through a hole (solely shattered connected holes), etc.
This would cut the profit of c5 and c6 space significantly by moving its farming capability into its static (like c2's function), and into shattered by moving the escalation fleet into it.
you can still farm your home hole, but the amount drops by over 3/4th. You'll have to farm the static.
If you surf through shattered space, you have the potential to run into every single c6 wormhole in one night.
Of all the ideas in this thread, this one is the most original and the one that would have most effect. Shattered wormholes are such an underrated treasure in the diversity they offer but few make use of. Also as Jack Miton points out: Running full escalations only once in a while cover most of the needs of a pvp group.
~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
.ORLY is recruiting
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1744
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 09:15:32 -
[75] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:I'd do something dramatic to be honest. If you wanted a 2nd static in c6 space, it should be into shattered wormholes.
There are 100 shattered wormholes, about 110 c6. The 2nd static should be a shattered static that rolls every day or two. I'd increase the amount of shattered wandering wormholes into c5's by a significant amount.
to improve the viability, I'd remove repeated escalations out of c5 and c6 space (no more running sites 3 nights in a row, you can do it once, but then the site is done, you want a new escalation, you need a new site). I'd move the escalations into the shattered wormholes.
Connecting wormholes from c6 to shattered space are significantly larger, able to accept more than 3 capitals (6 to 15 roughly). These should also be more difficult to crit and should recharge overtime (not impossible, but it should not be capable of critting a hole for longer than 5 minutes without it regenerating a significant amount of its mass). In addition, if you roll the hole, it should spawn a k162 immediately on the otherside (this is solely into shattered space only and to keep people from closing off their c6 wormhole from everybody).
Shattered holes should have its own statics that spawn into other shattered wormholes (minimum 1 connection to another static shattered wormholes, but more like 2 to 3 connections).
I'd love to see c6 space move their profit margins into shattered space, with c5 having the ability to safari into shattered space. Escalations moved into shattered, dreads and carrier combat increased in shattered, a increase on the ability to move more caps through a hole (solely shattered connected holes), etc.
This would cut the profit of c5 and c6 space significantly by moving its farming capability into its static (like c2's function), and into shattered by moving the escalation fleet into it.
you can still farm your home hole, but the amount drops by over 3/4th. You'll have to farm the static.
If you surf through shattered space, you have the potential to run into every single c6 wormhole in one night.
This is a really interesting idea, which makes use of existing resources. Balancing the "openness" to ensure the right mix of PVE interest and profitability, and ability for an active aware fleet to survive, whilst allowing sensible exposure to PVP,and losses for those who are not alert, whilst Preventing them being a highway needs a little tuning, but overall, a very good and imaginative idea that is worth considering and investigating.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
913
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 10:42:01 -
[76] - Quote
GizzyBoy wrote:For the most part its never about territory, it should never be about territory thats whats so great about wh space, unless you are actually after a particular wh, you can battle and what ever and not have to stress about ohnoes ever fight is an eviction attempt. even after the fight you can still be friends share roams, intell channels, even help each other out if some ones stuck etc. Which is pretty much my point, when it comes to fleet level, WH space naturally leans towards fights that have something in common with arranged ones - as in, it's not "everything goes, win and destroy at all costs". I don't think that attempts to change that would be something one would consider a shot for the betterment of high class space - as long as general mechanics of W-space stays as it is now. |
Waldemar Pawlak
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
135
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 10:46:49 -
[77] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote: PVP is the only thing that matters. Don't run pve, dont schedule farming ops, dont fund your corp off PVE tax. That way you cant actually spend some time PVPing and on the rare occasion that you need to, run a few sites to pay the fuel bills or replace ships.
If you have access to running C5-6 sites with caps, you'll be amazed how rarely you actually need to run them if your corp is legitimately PVP focused.
Changing your corp to this mind set is also by far the easiest way to get rid of dead weight who are just along for the ride which is something most corps need to do.
Oh really, and how can a wh corp survive without that income OR be a successful one, smart boy? huh? oh wait...
For recruitment:
1) Join our public channel: Hard Knocks
2) Follow the steps in MOTD of the channel.
3) Profit!
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Winthorp
3547
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 10:52:28 -
[78] - Quote
Waldemar Pawlak wrote:Jack Miton wrote: PVP is the only thing that matters. Don't run pve, dont schedule farming ops, dont fund your corp off PVE tax. That way you cant actually spend some time PVPing and on the rare occasion that you need to, run a few sites to pay the fuel bills or replace ships.
If you have access to running C5-6 sites with caps, you'll be amazed how rarely you actually need to run them if your corp is legitimately PVP focused.
Changing your corp to this mind set is also by far the easiest way to get rid of dead weight who are just along for the ride which is something most corps need to do.
Oh really, and how can a wh corp survive without that income OR be a successful one, smart boy? huh? oh wait...
Actually there is a few WH corps that do operate like this and Jack has this one right. PVE only leads to your corp locking down the chain and closing them off from all PVP opportunities. WH escalations are only really beneficial to a few people at a time, any more and its a waste of the extra peoples time.
It is far more efficient to get your members to look after their own wallets on alts or in groups of alts away from your main system.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1188
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 11:16:32 -
[79] - Quote
Waldemar Pawlak wrote:Jack Miton wrote: PVP is the only thing that matters. Don't run pve, dont schedule farming ops, dont fund your corp off PVE tax. That way you cant actually spend some time PVPing and on the rare occasion that you need to, run a few sites to pay the fuel bills or replace ships.
If you have access to running C5-6 sites with caps, you'll be amazed how rarely you actually need to run them if your corp is legitimately PVP focused.
Changing your corp to this mind set is also by far the easiest way to get rid of dead weight who are just along for the ride which is something most corps need to do.
Oh really, and how can a wh corp survive without that income OR be a successful one, smart boy? huh? oh wait...
Obviously by making sure its members all jew 23/7 in unrelated farmholes, so that no one points a finger at you when you complain about farmholes everywhere and no pvp left. |
Pook600
Defiance LLC Praetorian Directorate
4
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 18:15:01 -
[80] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:I would think the best way to promote PVP in WH space would be to somehow force players to put themselves in harms way.
Maybe its too easy to move goods out of these ISK farms. Removing or drastically reducing K-Space wandering WH from 4, 5 & 6 and limiting connections to similar classes IE . 6 connect to 6, 5 and a few 4s.
This would get rid of the wait till there's a nice wandering WH to High for shipping everything out and replace it with convoys moving through WH space
- just an idea ...
CCP has tried to improve PVP by making WH a super highway network - thinking more connection = more contact. They may be better off making into wagon-trails where things can be ambushed
I would agree with you, but chains tend to be dead overall and just getting worse over the last year. Although not good at PVP, I do try. It's getting harder to pick fights, even for a guy with a ****** KB like me. Seems like many smaller Alliances/Corps in WH space are seeing the same thing though. Because when you do run into someone else looking for a fight, it's usually pretty fun.
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Waldemar Pawlak
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
135
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Posted - 2015.07.09 19:57:54 -
[81] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:Waldemar Pawlak wrote:Jack Miton wrote: PVP is the only thing that matters. Don't run pve, dont schedule farming ops, dont fund your corp off PVE tax. That way you cant actually spend some time PVPing and on the rare occasion that you need to, run a few sites to pay the fuel bills or replace ships.
If you have access to running C5-6 sites with caps, you'll be amazed how rarely you actually need to run them if your corp is legitimately PVP focused.
Changing your corp to this mind set is also by far the easiest way to get rid of dead weight who are just along for the ride which is something most corps need to do.
Oh really, and how can a wh corp survive without that income OR be a successful one, smart boy? huh? oh wait... Actually there is a few WH corps that do operate like this and Jack has this one right. PVE only leads to your corp locking down the chain and closing them off from all PVP opportunities. WH escalations are only really beneficial to a few people at a time, any more and its a waste of the extra peoples time. It is far more efficient to get your members to look after their own wallets on alts or in groups of alts away from your main system.
Komrade Winthorp, yes, Wald knows - this is how HK is operating :)
Your wallet = your problem :D
For recruitment:
1) Join our public channel: Hard Knocks
2) Follow the steps in MOTD of the channel.
3) Profit!
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Sten Taxi
13. Enigma Project
29
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 20:43:58 -
[82] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote: If you want PvP to thrive in C6, you're going to have to work for it. Systematically install PvP corporations in place of the farmers.
This conclusion comes naturally, although i cannot believe you just said this. Earlier this spring you and your corporation helped to deter the eviction of the very group responsible for installig farming in c6 space. In effect supporting the installation of farmers in c6 space.
So while telling people to work for it, you are working the opposite agenda. Hypocrisy.
And don't come saying that the people who lived there previously were farmers too, they atleast strived to be PvP corps. |
Rek Seven
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1984
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Posted - 2015.07.09 21:05:40 -
[83] - Quote
Sten Taxi wrote:Hidden Fremen wrote: If you want PvP to thrive in C6, you're going to have to work for it. Systematically install PvP corporations in place of the farmers.
This conclusion comes naturally, although i cannot believe you just said this. Earlier this spring you and your corporation helped to deter the eviction of the very group responsible for installig farming in c6 space. In effect supporting the installation of farmers in c6 space. So while telling people to work for it, you are working the opposite agenda. Hypocrisy. And don't come saying that the people who lived there previously were farmers too, they atleast strived to be PvP corps.
Dude tell me about it! It makes me laugh how wormholers flip-flop.
It starts out by PVP'ers banding together to remove farmers, once that's done people start crying about how the PVP'ers and their blues are too powerful, and when the PVP'ers go their own ways, people start farming again and the tear start welling back up.
I've been saying it for years but i don't think anyone is listening... The only way to "fix" the issues is through mechanic changes and additional developer created content. We need more conflict drivers which ensure that it is better for people to fight each other rather than blue up, and there needs to be a clear benefit for PVP'ers to want to live in C6 space.
+1
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Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
621
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Posted - 2015.07.09 21:37:07 -
[84] - Quote
Sten Taxi wrote:Hidden Fremen wrote: If you want PvP to thrive in C6, you're going to have to work for it. Systematically install PvP corporations in place of the farmers.
So while telling people to work for it, you are working the opposite agenda. Hypocrisy.
I stated how it was in my first post. C6-space is for farming. I then made a suggestion for you all, not me, to do something about it. I'm fine with C6 being bountiful fields of agriculture. It's you all who pretend you want PvP in it. Most of you can't even scan farther than 5 deep from your chains, or are keeping them for their full lifespan, yet here you are, wasting everyone's time, worrying about space already inhabited by krabs, bears, farmers, wtv. If anyone is hypocritical, it's you all rabbling on forums about how things should be while you sit around doing nothing about it yourselves.
Rek Seven wrote:Rabble, rabble, I scan a whole five wormholes deep - where's all the pew!
The actual mechanic I agree would help, though, is that there needs to be something to fight for. Everything else is just bait for PvErs to get ganked. |
Sten Taxi
13. Enigma Project
29
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Posted - 2015.07.09 21:52:22 -
[85] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote: C6-space is for farming. I'm fine with C6 being bountiful fields of agriculture.
Keep spinning. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
914
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 06:05:48 -
[86] - Quote
So, the answer to fix WH space is everyone having an incursion alt and logging on WH account for pew or something?
There I thought that the point of w-space is to have enough opportunities to both get and welp blig-ish ships. Guess I was wrong. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1488
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 14:59:17 -
[87] - Quote
I said something before which caused me to rethink this compromise.
I said it was adequate.
my gut says this is wrong. Our attitude (especially mine) got wrapped so much in the politics that we forgot the issues that were just in front of us.
Wormholes provide a check towards both pve and pvp activities throughout new Eden. Wormholers are the boogie men of eve. We reach places that roamers can't, cyno's can't, and other groups can't. We as that nullsec check to unlimited farming. Renters fear us, nullsec ratters fear us, we cause people to not be afk in null deep null behind enemy lines and to pay attention.
Now does this suck? Yes. The game has been put solely in favor of null, and the deck is stacked against us. I do hope fozziesov succeeds, but we, as wormholers, need our own revamp. We are looking at nullsec as a crutch to the growing lack of content in c5 and c6 space. One of the generators is being reduced, which doesn't bode well the for the space. If we are to ask for change, it can't be solely for more null connections, it has to be a review on how our homes work, what can be done to get more pew, and how to kill off the obscene amount of farming alt corps that have cropped up throughout the years. A look at the total mechanic needs to be done, and some basic research towards isolating wormholes needs to be addressed. We are not nullsec. We should not have FarmVille with the ability to crit to roll holes and a total blockade of pvp content within our grasp. If CCP believes that having a nullsec carrier earn a billion ISk a day, everyday, with unlimited anoms and no fear of retaliation except a total invasion is fine, fine. If they want to carebear while watching "My Little Pony", who am I to stop it.
But to hell if I want wspace to turn into that nonsense.
Yaay!!!!
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Peter Moonlight
Lazerhawks
177
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Posted - 2015.07.10 16:02:50 -
[88] - Quote
Sten Taxi wrote:Hidden Fremen wrote: C6-space is for farming. I'm fine with C6 being bountiful fields of agriculture.
Keep spinning. Keep blueballing. |
Help They GotMyMoney
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 19:14:31 -
[89] - Quote
WH Space 2015
Post with you're main.
Lazerhawks: ¨we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers¨
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corbexx
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1374
|
Posted - 2015.07.12 12:46:42 -
[90] - Quote
Help They GotMyMoney wrote:
thats pretty good nice to see you have them set blue as well.
Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
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calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
359
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Posted - 2015.07.12 16:36:26 -
[91] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Help They GotMyMoney wrote: thats pretty good nice to see you have them set blue as well.
Surely that must be a mistake by this unaffiliated alt. We have been assured several times that this isnt the case. They would never lie about such a thing.
~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
.ORLY is recruiting
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Callista Spada
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
9
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 12:02:15 -
[92] - Quote
calaretu wrote:corbexx wrote:Help They GotMyMoney wrote: thats pretty good nice to see you have them set blue as well. Surely that must be a mistake by this unaffiliated alt. We have been assured several times that this isnt the case. They would never lie about such a thing.
The footnote of the unaffiliated alt makes this even more funny:
Post with you're main. Lazerhawks: -¿we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers-¿ |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
624
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Posted - 2015.07.15 13:45:51 -
[93] - Quote
Lol, "you're" |
Maxim DELETE
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
52
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Posted - 2015.08.02 11:06:59 -
[94] - Quote
I want to second in statics c6 (as in system c2 and c4) - we will bring you more pain ))) |
Saera Ezliha
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 15:07:56 -
[95] - Quote
Maxim DELETE wrote:I want to second in statics c6 (as in system c2 and c4) - we will bring you more pain )))
What would you think about adding a second static c6 (random other class for those systems that already have a c6 static) and removing all wandering (inkluding kspace) It would make c6 pace unique, worth having and also difficult to hold. |
Justin Cody
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
303
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 20:27:49 -
[96] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:The issue isn't the C6 class itself, it's the people who live there. it was very deliberately turned into farmville and messing with the statics isn't going to change that.
The solution is removing/drastically changing cap escalations so that people actually need to leave their home system.
I think you have a point to a degree but instead of nerfing the sleeper anom spawn rate I would introduce a mechanic (into all of w-space) wherein running sites increases the chance of a roaming static to appear and it has no timer. The sleepers are calling out for aid!
It would make sense and it would enable more random player disruption to occur as a direct result of player actions. It has a nice symmetry. The chance of it happening should be fairly even across W-space classes with frequency only increasing with NPCing activity. |
Justin Cody
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
303
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 20:29:14 -
[97] - Quote
Saera Ezliha wrote:Maxim DELETE wrote:I want to second in statics c6 (as in system c2 and c4) - we will bring you more pain ))) What would you think about adding a second static c6 (random other class for those systems that already have a c6 static) and removing all wandering (inkluding kspace) It would make c6 pace unique, worth having and also difficult to hold.
I think adding dual statics to C5/C6 is the only way now to alleviate the pressure of the null W-space nerf short of pulling back on the nerf. Even if they hadn't nerfed the nulls I want dual statics or an increase in random j-space statics based on NPCing activity. |
Gunz blazing Ronuken
Insane's Asylum Pride Before Fall
7
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 12:20:23 -
[98] - Quote
Maybe can create alts then make sure to gank your own alts with your alts? disclaimer: could get boring in the long run.. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1525
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 16:06:03 -
[99] - Quote
Dual statics for all. Dual static c1's, c3's, c5's and c6.
You still get the pvp stale mates and the pve carebears.
That would add about 30 minutes of enjoyment before everybody's back posting in this thread.
Yaay!!!!
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calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
365
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 06:46:42 -
[100] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Dual statics for all. Dual static c1's, c3's, c5's and c6.
You still get the pvp stale mates and the pve carebears.
That would add about 30 minutes of enjoyment before everybody's back posting in this thread.
Only reason I post in this thread is because I feel sorry for the state of c6 space. C5 is same as it always have been. C4's are very good place for us atm full of different stuff happening so no plan of moving up.
~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
.ORLY is recruiting
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Ariete
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
48
|
Posted - 2015.08.10 19:02:55 -
[101] - Quote
I think C6 and C5 wormholes themselves are fine as they are. Capital Escalations need a bit of work, just have the triggers for the next wave to be random, infect have that on all sleeper sites C1 to C6.
The issue is with the players some will fight others will log off or role the hole on sight of a scanning ship. That can't be fixed in game, giving people a fair fight and embracing the death with the victories will actually fix it. Anyone who fights and stands their ground will get respect be it farmers or pvpers.
Wormholes are a interesting people where we could be fighting one minute and helping each other out the next, the red doughnut as i see it. I think some people have forgotten this over the years.
So CSM IX ????
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KPomgPL
Bad Intentions Inc.
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 10:00:18 -
[102] - Quote
c1 space is pretty stagnant and empty too, lets disable PI in wh...
Farmers in c5/6 are not a problem. They are perfect targets for small gangs. If you really want a fight in particular system, just setup a POS there and RF their POS maybe. It is like 99% chance someone will come and fight you in next couple of hours(a day maybe).
Don't forget farmer corps exists because we all let them exist. We have better things to do than chasing them and just have not enough pvp corps in wspace.
It is obvious that there is a nullsec lobby in every academy corporation and they tell new players they can earn billions in nullsec and wh is not for them because of skills. Somehow they forget to mention that 7 day char can earn 120m per hour on afk just investing in 11m venture.
How big corporations/alliances can instantly populate wspace? Just split. Make a second corp with alts in another wh and you will have your content doubled. If your scout find sth in chain just log into this chain. No boredom for active ppl anymore ;P
Bad Intentions Inc. is recruiting [C5/5 Wormhole]
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Blizzaro
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
31
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 11:10:00 -
[103] - Quote
Bleedingthrough wrote:If you remove all the non krabs only the krabs will remain.
Why not become the krab hunter?
Oh wait you just want to Krab all day and not actually put effort into getting kills just like all the other lazy lazy spurgelords calling for changes to c5/6 space |
Bleedingthrough
191
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Posted - 2015.10.13 14:59:46 -
[104] - Quote
Blizzaro wrote:Bleedingthrough wrote:If you remove all the non krabs only the krabs will remain. Why not become the krab hunter? Oh wait you just want to Krab all day and not actually put effort into getting kills just like all the other lazy lazy spurgelords calling for changes to c5/6 space
The people your group has evicted are by no means krabs. They might be bad or have low numbers but these guys were the guys providing the little skirmishes many people enjoyed.
Calling them krabs is just a stupid excuse to get content/killmails (by destroying content).
The new type of Krab (the real krabs) you installed now are all about efficiency. They have minimum assets in their WH and never fight nor could. If you don't stumble across them while they krab it is not worth investing time on them. Only one cap on the field or even SB in red giants. Unlike evicting PvPers if the krabber is somewhat efficient you will only be able to kill a stick ...
And yes this has much to do how C6 WH work (easy to roll into a specific WH) and the way capital escalations can be done with only a few people.
And the mentality that the strongest groups in WH space team up to protect this krabbing ground is beyond me. I don't understand it.
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Jack Miton
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
4715
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 22:34:09 -
[105] - Quote
Dont encourage him man... no point.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
701
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 00:50:41 -
[106] - Quote
I don't know anything about wormholes except for what I read here and on reddit and the few times I've run low class sites but - why don't all the honorable pvp wormhole corps and friends declare a holy jihad against the red krab menace and not rest until it is banished?
From what I read about the Dropbearsr eviction the Russians and friends just utilized weaponized boredom and content denial fleets (petes) to clear the hole...why would anyone not a Russian RMT'er support that? |
Ayiana Valerii
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.10.27 12:24:33 -
[107] - Quote
Waldemar Pawlak wrote:Trinkets friend wrote:mate. He called you a carebear.
and a low-skill rent-boy carebear, at that! Ah, that I don't mind. I am more concerned with the fact that in his assessment he doesn't take logistics and isk investments required to run c5 and c6 sites. :|
Lol. Incursions take more logistics and ISK investment than running sites in c5/c6. At least they have to move more. You guys don't even have to move around. Just sit on your ass in your home after you crit your hole.
Ha.... carebears wannabe elite pvp |
Ayiana Valerii
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 12:34:02 -
[108] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:C6-space is for farming. You don't like it? Change it. But the perception is years old. Others farm anomalies, we farm krabs.
Best thing in this thread is how unfair life is for Viperfleet and complaining they have to scan for content. People go to where content grows. Do you still wonder why recruitment escapes you?
You farm C5/C6 holes as much as farmers do. You should teach your people to either log off in their caps or leave them in SMAs and not let them floating in the POS. Tell them we can see the corp tags even if the ship is not piloted. |
Ayiana Valerii
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 12:46:51 -
[109] - Quote
Arcturus Gallow wrote:What Wspace would need would be new blood.
I tried to create this, but setting up in high class as a new group is very hard. First making money as a group in C5 is not as easy as most seems to think.
You need 6 people in ships worth a total of 2bil isk to run garnisons in your static. How difficult is that?
Giving fights it's easy. You don't even have to do it in T3s but you have to accept you will be farmed by lzh and friends. I guess you took the easy way and joined them instead of giving them fights.
Better than being farmed right? :) |
Ayiana Valerii
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 13:01:24 -
[110] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:Sten Taxi wrote:[quote=Hidden Fremen] If you want PvP to thrive in C6, you're going to have to work for it. Systematically install PvP corporations in place of the farmers.
..... yet here you are, wasting everyone's time, worrying about space already inhabited by krabs, bears, farmers, wtv. If anyone is hypocritical, it's you all rabbling on forums about how things should be while you sit around doing nothing about it yourselves.
You made a mess and expect others to fix it?
Nice trolling there :)
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Borsek
Incertae Sedis
334
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 13:44:03 -
[111] - Quote
Dude... like why did you make 4 consecutive posts? You just brought the dead back to life. Why? |
Ayiana Valerii
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 13:51:40 -
[112] - Quote
Borsek wrote:Dude... like why did you make 4 consecutive posts? You just brought the dead back to life. Why?
Because i read the entire thread. I didn't plan to respond to 4 posts ahead of time you know.... |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
649
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 14:07:14 -
[113] - Quote
Ayiana, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not complaining; I'm actually declaring C6 to be for krabbing only. |
Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1473
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 14:48:36 -
[114] - Quote
you had to wait 2 minutes to make all those posts. It's incredible that you care that much
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Ayiana Valerii
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 15:09:19 -
[115] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:Ayiana, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not complaining; I'm actually declaring C6 to be for krabbing only.
So, in the end, the 'we evicted krabs' while nor your corp (and friends) is using those for farming was nothing more trolling everyone else |
Second Larry
University of Caille Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 16:38:09 -
[116] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:Ayiana, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not complaining; I'm actually declaring C6 to be for krabbing only.
This game is box of sand. Do stop tell me of correct place and way of play and I will no tell you to stop stroking own ego. |
Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
2083
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 20:16:58 -
[117] - Quote
Finally! Roaming sleepers and the possibility of sleeper capitals. This is just what wormholes space has need!
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1570
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 20:44:55 -
[118] - Quote
Tinfoil. Heck they asked people not to record it so they can't be held for not doing it.
Pie in the sky concepts that don't address the c6 concerns.
The issue isn't rats, it's that c6 (as well as all other wormholes) can isolate themselves and basically make a locked out instance for themselves where they can pve till the end of days). There's little risk, and if you get caught, big whoop you lost a dread.
Now with the cap changes doing solo instances will be much more difficult (theoretically).
Yaay!!!!
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Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
649
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 22:01:30 -
[119] - Quote
Second Larry wrote:Hidden Fremen wrote:Ayiana, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not complaining; I'm actually declaring C6 to be for krabbing only. This game is box of sand. Do stop tell me of correct place and way of play and I will no tell you to stop stroking own ego. It's my sandbox. |
Winthorp
3731
|
Posted - 2015.10.28 04:06:43 -
[120] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:Second Larry wrote:Hidden Fremen wrote:Ayiana, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not complaining; I'm actually declaring C6 to be for krabbing only. This game is box of sand. Do stop tell me of correct place and way of play and I will no tell you to stop stroking own ego. It's my sandbox.
They can't downvote you here m8.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Second Larry
University of Caille Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.10.28 14:57:18 -
[121] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:Second Larry wrote:Hidden Fremen wrote:Ayiana, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not complaining; I'm actually declaring C6 to be for krabbing only. This game is box of sand. Do stop tell me of correct place and way of play and I will no tell you to stop stroking own ego. It's my sandbox.
You also say you can milk chickens. |
Borsek
Incertae Sedis
335
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 12:18:32 -
[122] - Quote
I love chickens, eddy!
http://i.cdn.turner.com/v5cache/CARTOON/site/Images/i22/edd_ed_174x52.png |
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