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Magwua
Amarr Syncore Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.29 07:12:00 -
[1]
With Revelations we say hp bonus's across the board. To be frank logistics ships getting 12.5% hp boost is crap. When I first heard about the hp boost coming in Kali, I was ecstatic; finally my oneiros would stand a chance doing what it was meant to do. I fully expected a 25% boost because they are tech 2 ships, but a 50% would have been really nice. Instead we get half that while command ships get a 28.125% boost and interdictors get 33.33% more hp.
It is time the devs come up with a plan for logistics ships. I love the concept, was always a medic/healer in other mmo's. But in their current state they are hardly worth even the 25 mil loss. Even with a decent skill set (level 4 in all relevant skills) remote reps still take the entire ship's fittings to generate cap. Since this is what they are supposed to do I have no problem there, but if you cannot survive long enough to repair anyone you may as well be in a different ship. The fact that a properly fitted bs can out rep a specialized tech 2 ship is a good indication that something is terribly wrong.
So I plead with the devs to come up with a plan to make the ships viable. Whether it be a fittings bonus so that you can actually fit large remote reps on an oneiros (more then two) or even an entirely new logistics class modules (my favorite idea), something needs to be done. And in the rare chance they do have a plan to make logistics work please post it, I'm sure we would all love to know what your idea of a logistics ship is.
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Magwua
Amarr Syncore Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.29 07:12:00 -
[2]
With Revelations we say hp bonus's across the board. To be frank logistics ships getting 12.5% hp boost is crap. When I first heard about the hp boost coming in Kali, I was ecstatic; finally my oneiros would stand a chance doing what it was meant to do. I fully expected a 25% boost because they are tech 2 ships, but a 50% would have been really nice. Instead we get half that while command ships get a 28.125% boost and interdictors get 33.33% more hp.
It is time the devs come up with a plan for logistics ships. I love the concept, was always a medic/healer in other mmo's. But in their current state they are hardly worth even the 25 mil loss. Even with a decent skill set (level 4 in all relevant skills) remote reps still take the entire ship's fittings to generate cap. Since this is what they are supposed to do I have no problem there, but if you cannot survive long enough to repair anyone you may as well be in a different ship. The fact that a properly fitted bs can out rep a specialized tech 2 ship is a good indication that something is terribly wrong.
So I plead with the devs to come up with a plan to make the ships viable. Whether it be a fittings bonus so that you can actually fit large remote reps on an oneiros (more then two) or even an entirely new logistics class modules (my favorite idea), something needs to be done. And in the rare chance they do have a plan to make logistics work please post it, I'm sure we would all love to know what your idea of a logistics ship is.
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Magwua
Amarr Syncore Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.29 07:12:00 -
[3]
With Revelations we say hp bonus's across the board. To be frank logistics ships getting 12.5% hp boost is crap. When I first heard about the hp boost coming in Kali, I was ecstatic; finally my oneiros would stand a chance doing what it was meant to do. I fully expected a 25% boost because they are tech 2 ships, but a 50% would have been really nice. Instead we get half that while command ships get a 28.125% boost and interdictors get 33.33% more hp.
It is time the devs come up with a plan for logistics ships. I love the concept, was always a medic/healer in other mmo's. But in their current state they are hardly worth even the 25 mil loss. Even with a decent skill set (level 4 in all relevant skills) remote reps still take the entire ship's fittings to generate cap. Since this is what they are supposed to do I have no problem there, but if you cannot survive long enough to repair anyone you may as well be in a different ship. The fact that a properly fitted bs can out rep a specialized tech 2 ship is a good indication that something is terribly wrong.
So I plead with the devs to come up with a plan to make the ships viable. Whether it be a fittings bonus so that you can actually fit large remote reps on an oneiros (more then two) or even an entirely new logistics class modules (my favorite idea), something needs to be done. And in the rare chance they do have a plan to make logistics work please post it, I'm sure we would all love to know what your idea of a logistics ship is.
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.29 07:19:00 -
[4]
i think cruisers and frigates in general got pretty shafted
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.29 07:19:00 -
[5]
i think cruisers and frigates in general got pretty shafted
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 09:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Captain Raynor i think cruisers and frigates in general got pretty shafted
yep
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 09:33:00 -
[7]
Logisitics got worth using with longer fight durations. I fail to see how that's a shafting.
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Magellan One
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:53:00 -
[8]
- Repair system is no longer required for the remote armor repair systems nor will it give a bonus to these systems
The Oneiros got hit with the nerf bat something severe...
The cycle time of the remote armor reppers has increased from 6 secs to 8 secs....so instead of repping 1200 armor every 6 secs (200/sec) it now only does 1200 every 8 (150/sec)....
Way to go CCP....
Not only do fights go for longer now due to the hp buff, but the oneiros will be hard pressed to keep up with the repping....
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DaChMon
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:56:00 -
[9]
oh BOOOHOOOO, only 200/sec ? CCP, fix my raven, it doesnt have a 0.1sec rof in kali.
Jeebuz !
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Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:03:00 -
[10]
ôoh BOOOHOOOO, only 200/sec ? CCP, fix my raven, it doesnt have a 0.1sec rof in kali.ö I think you miss read it. Its not 200 per sec its 150 per sec and thatÆs for a full support ship without weapons thatÆs meant to focus on healing. ItÆs a nerf support ships needed boosting not nerfing.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
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Aakron
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:16:00 -
[11]
I was going to train for logistics, good job I didnt get around to it before now. ---
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LC Sulla
BGG Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:25:00 -
[12]
I'd prefer to see a better range bonus. Something more like 100-150kms would be better. Sitting at around 45kms you are generally within range of everything and the resistances don't give you much chance to hold out.
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BlueShift Solo
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Magwua With Revelations we say hp bonus's across the board. To be frank logistics ships getting 12.5% hp boost is crap. When I first heard about the hp boost coming in Kali, I was ecstatic; finally my oneiros would stand a chance doing what it was meant to do. I fully expected a 25% boost because they are tech 2 ships, but a 50% would have been really nice. Instead we get half that while command ships get a 28.125% boost and interdictors get 33.33% more hp.
It is time the devs come up with a plan for logistics ships. I love the concept, was always a medic/healer in other mmo's. But in their current state they are hardly worth even the 25 mil loss. Even with a decent skill set (level 4 in all relevant skills) remote reps still take the entire ship's fittings to generate cap. Since this is what they are supposed to do I have no problem there, but if you cannot survive long enough to repair anyone you may as well be in a different ship. The fact that a properly fitted bs can out rep a specialized tech 2 ship is a good indication that something is terribly wrong.
So I plead with the devs to come up with a plan to make the ships viable. Whether it be a fittings bonus so that you can actually fit large remote reps on an oneiros (more then two) or even an entirely new logistics class modules (my favorite idea), something needs to be done. And in the rare chance they do have a plan to make logistics work please post it, I'm sure we would all love to know what your idea of a logistics ship is.
...
...
The fact that capacitor power relays and batteries were buffed doesn't please you? None of us logistic pilots have anything to complain about; Revalations buffed us!
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slothe
Caldari Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:42:00 -
[14]
oneiros-
2x125mm rails
1x10mn mwd 3xlse t2 1x em hardner t2
4x wcs (named)
drones.
excellent 0.0 hauler for valuable items. i trained logistics to use it as above.
but on the op's point, maybe t2 battleships could become larger scale , more practical logistics ships?
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Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:54:00 -
[15]
ôNone of us logistic pilots have anything to complain about; Revalations buffed us!ö Are you aware they changed the skills so less work. Remote amour repairs now cycle slower meaning less hitpoint boosting. The buffs to cap do not make up for repairing less and having less shield HP/s natural regen.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Malena
Perpetual Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:39:00 -
[16]
Agreed. Been a logistics pilot for a long time, I daresay one of the longest, (all relevant and secondary skills at 5, trust me, you want me in your gang) and even then I don't use it in fleet simply because I lost too many ships being primary and never even had a chance to warp out. The few times I did it was because my gang was headed towards a warp point anyway. Since I have to maintain my range, whether it be 45k, 52k, or 5k, being already aligned towards a warp point is not an option...the enemy is not always obliging enough to have a warp point sitting behind them. When I am in a BS it is not immediately obvious that I am there to keep my mates alive, so I am not targetted right away.
Getting the 25% bonus would have been a nice help, and would have at least allowed pilots to really see what is needed, whether it be larger range bonus, or fitting bonus or whatever, to help out in fleet combat.
50% would make it even better at the unintended tackler role for those of whom ISK is not an issue, so I don't advocate that much.
Perhaps as a compromise, keep the 12.5% bonus, but give the whole class a 5-10% reduction in mass (and resulting increase in agility) so that they can warp out faster. RP wise this could be explained by the lack of weapon mounts and general fragility of the class. The trouble, again, is it being used in the tackler role. Perhaps change the descripton so that "propulsion jamming modules cannot be fitted to this class"
Honestly, I see the last as the belt option, combined with another 12.5% HP increase, because it isn't just PvP to consider, a log ship with 50% more shields would be a bit unbalancing (not overly so but still...) for PvE, but it would not be adversely effected by not being able to fit a webber or disruptor.
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Toku Katayama
Life Extermination New Eden Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:24:00 -
[17]
As an Oneiros pilot, I have said and see many threads saying these ships need to be buffed to make them more viable. Removing the Repair System calculation to Remotes reppers is a step in the wrong direction.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: BlueShift Solo
The fact that capacitor power relays and batteries were buffed doesn't please you?
Huh? Cap relays do exactly the same thing they did before Revelations, and cap batteries, if they were boosted... are still trash. 500 cap for a midslot, 250 grid and 100 CPU? Hahahahah! That's funny, because it looks like trash to me.
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Aya Vandenovich
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:36:00 -
[19]
Considering we now have more hp and a bigger capacitor that takes longer to recharge the first thing I thought of was using logistic ships as refueling stations at safespots for post-combat repairs.
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Verus Potestas
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:38:00 -
[20]
Linkage
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
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James McGowen
Caldari FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.29 21:58:00 -
[21]
Edited by: James McGowen on 29/11/2006 21:58:05 I trained up for logistics ships, flew a bassilisk in a fleet two or three times, flew an onerios about as much, put them in my hanger, and started training for command ships. The only boost to them with this patch is the "need shield/need armor/need cap" options in the gang menu, which combined with sorting those to top on overview could be usefull for locking someone before they pop. Overall though, I see no reason to get out of my command ship and into a logistics, they are more survivable and gangmod bonuses seem more usefull.
I am kinda hoping for t2 command/logistics BS as well. That'd make my day, as I get the feeling logistics crusiers aren't going to get much better before t2 bs are out...
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Magwua
Amarr Syncore Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:55:00 -
[22]
It just seems especially odd that they did not even look at logistics ships for Revelations considering CCP says they want to make combat longer. Wouldn't having logistics ships viable healers expand combat time greatly?
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Slaadi
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Posted - 2006.11.30 14:48:00 -
[23]
Getting 25% to stats is about the 10th thing logistics ships need, my #1 being why the hell can't we use logistics drones.
I was psyched when I first got my basilisk before i realized it was really just a osprey with a big "SHOOT ME FIRST! EASY KILL RIGHT HERE!" painted on the side. Then I flew a logistics domi which not only did the job almost as well but also was able to pull in the shield/armor drones and whip out the sentries plus was able to actually survive longer than 10 seconds.
Then I took it on a mission to help a friend in a different corp, had to accept that using shield drones on him was a 'hostile action' and shot him once a few minutes later. Concorded, finished training for assault frigates and forgot the whole wasted skill tree for the stupid basilisk.
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Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:12:00 -
[24]
They certainly could be made more efficient.
One thing they really should be able to do is field (and maybe give a bonus to) maintenance drones - even if it includes some strange limitation that it can't field combat drones. In truth I was fairly suprised when I realised nearly all logistic cruisers don't have any drone bay at all.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Striker IV
Gallente Brother in Arms Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:43:00 -
[25]
regarding the change with the repair systems skill, - thats just poor thinking on CCP's fault ( i reeeeeeally hope it was, otherwise its a big nerf) they might have been thinking it will make them easier to get into , or perhaps cleaning up the codebase cuz remote prolly shoulndt need to use a " inline repper skill ". but perhaps with us talking about it , they might increase the remote /sec to conpensate
the one " bonus " i got a reply to was they are working on making the logistics easier to assist ( ie using those lovely spammable gangshouts) by possibly not needing to lock a gangmate to start assisting immediately.
Getting a top rate hp boost would have been nice. we should keep that thought alive,we might get ccp to see it our way.. i have a hard time imagining anyone using a logistics ship for anything other than that, no bay, no bonuses for dmg , etc.
Ive used my oneiros 1 time in mission help.Other clannie got a raven , and i changed course to command ships ( evemon sez finishing in apr/may).
grr, i cant even speak from experience with this as i havent been able to use it, but having been a 'healer/assist' as far as i can remember in other games, this is one of my favorite things to do , assist, keep an eye out for ppl , manage the items, and so on.
Team work is essential... It gives the other team something ELSE to shoot at!
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:49:00 -
[26]
Logistics problem #1: EVE got no gangsupport group system at all. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.30 19:48:00 -
[27]
Logistics ships are still badly borked, they will need much greater survivability and improved cap systems in order to be viable in pvp. Currently their tech I are almost as effective and a small fraction of their cost.
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