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Etti Caruse
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:10:00 -
[1]
Ok, excuse my ignorance but ive been gone for around a year.
Since this is a new char(sold my old guy) i still plan and will go deep into missles and Caldari ships in general.
But here is the big question. are missle boats still viable in fleet pvp?
Am i actually better off going with the "fab" of the time.
any insight would be nice.
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Tanya Kovacs
SteelVipers YouWhat
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:15:00 -
[2]
Scorps got a hit with the nerfbat (maybe by accident but I doubt this) but are still important. Ravens were never an option for the snipe-o-matic fleetpvp of RMR. Maybe it changes now to a closer ranger, time will tell. --
All my postings reflects just my personal opinion and my lacking knowledge of proper english.
There is no lag in EV |
Epsillon
Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:16:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Epsillon on 29/11/2006 11:16:52 There is nothing that says you must train only missiles as Caldari!
You have just been awarded what is undoubtedly the best fleet PvP Battleship in the form of the Rokh, so if you train rails as well as the (easy) missile training paths, you will be very viable at both PvE and PvP combat, especially if you go all the way to BS 5 - things only get better.
I still wouldn't recommend a Raven for large-scale fleet combat, however. It's true that missiles can take a while to reach their target.
Edit: And the Scorp is now one of the very few ships that can effectively fit ECM. But not to worry, we Minmatar still have Target Painting bonuses!
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Shoele Lialos
Gallente Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:18:00 -
[4]
The Drake got back that missile slot, so don't count it out.
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:23:00 -
[5]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 29/11/2006 11:25:23 The Scorp and the Raven are the only ships that took a significant hit.
The Scorp just isn't as effective at jamming now, it needs a 5th low slot or 20% per level to ECM strength. The recons are arguably improved as a result of the patch but only very slightly.
The Raven took a hit because Javelin torps have been nerfed (less damage, range, worse against small ships), you're better off using tech I torps now. Rage torps work quite pleasingly though as they've had a buff and are better at hitting small ships (no requirement for ridiculous numbers of painters anymore).
We have the Rokh which is an excellent fleet ship, best tank in the game basically. It's the least damaging of the range boats though.
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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Etti Caruse
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:30:00 -
[6]
sorry what is a Rokh?
ive been gone a year lol. is this the new T3 BS?
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Etti Caruse sorry what is a Rokh?
ive been gone a year lol. is this the new T3 BS?
the new fleet "I win" Button. Hits to 250km w/ T1 guns (that's just the optimal range, not including falloff) and can outdamage all other BS fitted with T2 guns at range, while using T1 guns. That good enuf for ya?
Because I said so...
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Zakgram
Apocalyptic Raiders Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: welsh wizard
The Scorp and the Raven are the only ships that took a significant hit.
Eh? Falcon & Rook both took double nerfs - ecm strength drop and a shield penalty (12% increase in shield cap, 25% increase in recharge time). Anything that relies on drones for damage (e.g. pilgrim) also got whacked hard with the extra hp increases on battleships.
At least the manticore got a wack and a boost - it's (almost useless) alpha strike is greatly diminished with the hp increases, but at least it's easier to fit now.
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Chronus26
Gallente Dark Blood Contracts
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Etti Caruse sorry what is a Rokh?
ive been gone a year lol. is this the new T3 BS?
the new fleet "I win" Button. Hits to 250km w/ T1 guns (that's just the optimal range, not including falloff) and can outdamage all other BS fitted with T2 guns at range, while using T1 guns. That good enuf for ya?
N'really.
i'm almost certain that when in optimal, the Megathron does more damage with rails. (both with full rack of 425mm II and 3 Mag Stabs.)
Only when you are into the Rokhs increased optimal does the Megas damage fall below. -----
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Ortu Konsinni
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:49:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ortu Konsinni on 29/11/2006 11:50:56
Originally by: murder one [The Rokh] hits to 250km w/ T1 guns (that's just the optimal range, not including falloff) and can outdamage all other BS fitted with T2 guns at range, while using T1 guns.
I haven't done the math and don't want to start any sort of argument, so just accept this as a genuine question: how does that work exactly?
Comparing the Megathron and the Rokh, how can the Rokh's 8 turrets with no damage bonus outdamage a Megathron's 7 turrets + 5% per level damage bonus? Assume they're using the same guns, the same ammo (everyone uses Spike in fleet battles anyway) and no magnetic field stabilizers. And good luck hitting to 250km with T1 guns without using Iron ammo...
Maybe it's just me but doing some numbers in my head I feel you're exaggerating a lot. The only advantage I see is that the Rokh can shoot more damaging ammo farther, but I don't think that'll be enough to outdamage a Megathron set up for sniping. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
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DaChMon
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.11.29 11:59:00 -
[11]
the rook took a nerf ? dude, lets get the first BS on TQ BUILDT before we say its nerfed.
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Mordorg
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Edited by: Ortu Konsinni on 29/11/2006 11:50:56
Originally by: murder one [The Rokh] hits to 250km w/ T1 guns (that's just the optimal range, not including falloff) and can outdamage all other BS fitted with T2 guns at range, while using T1 guns.
I haven't done the math and don't want to start any sort of argument, so just accept this as a genuine question: how does that work exactly?
Comparing the Megathron and the Rokh, how can the Rokh's 8 turrets with no damage bonus outdamage a Megathron's 7 turrets + 5% per level damage bonus? Assume they're using the same guns, the same ammo (everyone uses Spike in fleet battles anyway) and no magnetic field stabilizers. And good luck hitting to 250km with T1 guns without using Iron ammo...
Maybe it's just me but doing some numbers in my head I feel you're exaggerating a lot. The only advantage I see is that the Rokh can shoot more damaging ammo farther, but I don't think that'll be enough to outdamage a Megathron set up for sniping.
Well, he might mean at a Rokhs engagement ranges that it does more then a Mega, which it does. Or that after the shield extenders and Invuln fields people are gonna put on them, a mega cannot do much nearly enough damage before its dead.
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Tanya Kovacs
SteelVipers YouWhat
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: DaChMon the rook took a nerf ? dude, lets get the first BS on TQ BUILDT before we say its nerfed.
rook != rokh
Anyway, seems this thread turns into another "rokh is imba, we gallente suck now"-thread. --
All my postings reflects just my personal opinion and my lacking knowledge of proper english.
There is no lag in EV |
Jacob Holland
Gallente FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:51:00 -
[14]
Yes, missile boats are still perfectly viable in fleet PvP; barring the addition of T2 missiles (you won't notice what people are complaining about with Javelin torps because the broken version came out after you started your break) and now H.A.M.s very little has actually changed relative to the other weapon systems.
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Spanker
Absolut Profit
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shoele Lialos The Drake got back that missile slot
You're joking right?
- Shpank |
Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jacob Holland Yes, missile boats are still perfectly viable in fleet PvP; barring the addition of T2 missiles (you won't notice what people are complaining about with Javelin torps because the broken version came out after you started your break) and now H.A.M.s very little has actually changed relative to the other weapon systems.
IAC is really great. "Missile boats are still perfectly viable in fleet PvP"(c) IAC Do not drink, please, more! --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:19:00 -
[17]
Yes, Caldari ships are dead in PvP. Scorp is dead Raven is almost dead. Rook, Falcon, BB also. Drake is worst BC tier 2(once it was the Ferox worst BC). Eagle is nerfed by HP boost. Rokh is relatively good, but who from Real missile user trained hybrids well? Almost nobody. Because second good option WAS projectiles. --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Yuki Li
Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:36:00 -
[18]
Anyone who insists the Rokh is a super-uber railboat has clearly never piloted one.
Anyone who insists it does massive dps has clearly never undocked.
The Rokh isn't even good. The DPS is beyond pathetic, and it can't run the guns for long due to the cap use on 8 rails.
Whoop, it can hit to 250k, unless you have a fleet consisting entirely of Rokh's (which would be the lowest DPS fleet imaginable, a blasterax is capable of more DPS than a Rokh with antimatter iirc) then it's irrelevant, because the rest of your fleet won't be able to engage.
In an actual fleet engagement the thing is sodding pointless, and its absolutely useless for everything else. (no, i don't count Nos and siege launchers as a "use" on a railboat).
As for Javelin Torps, the changes are pretty infuriating to be completely honest. They're literally less use than t1 torps - i honestly can't see the logic in it. (aside from "boohoo, i can't fly my ship worth a **** and a Raven messed me up with Javelins nerf nerf rabble rabble")
I don't think ECM ships are nerfed, i think they'll be okay.
I do think Revelations brought about some of the most retarded mechanic changes i've experienced so far, though.
Website / Recruiting |
Shadoo
North Eastern Swat
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zixxa Yes, Caldari ships are dead in PvP. Scorp is dead Raven is almost dead. Rook, Falcon, BB also. Drake is worst BC tier 2(once it was the Ferox worst BC). Eagle is nerfed by HP boost. Rokh is relatively good, but who from Real missile user trained hybrids well? Almost nobody. Because second good option WAS projectiles.
Out of pity, I will buy all your falcons and rooks for 20million each.
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maomini
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:54:00 -
[20]
The Rokh's still an awesome fleet ship, the fact that you can get 80-90% resists on all damages with a large extender and 3 damage mods is kinda nice :) . It's probably the best tank in the game.
It doesn't compare to the Megas damage at optimal fleet range though.
The Rook is actually able to exceed the old maximum jamming strength in RMR but you sacrifice all your lows so no more nano-Rooks. ;)
The Scorpion is the only ship that may see a reduction in use. It isn't as effective in fleet anymore, it needs an extra low slot to compensate for the ECM damage mods it now has to fit.
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ShadowlordUK
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zixxa Yes, Caldari ships are dead in PvP. Scorp is dead Raven is almost dead. Rook, Falcon, BB also. Drake is worst BC tier 2(once it was the Ferox worst BC). Eagle is nerfed by HP boost. Rokh is relatively good, but who from Real missile user trained hybrids well? Almost nobody. Because second good option WAS projectiles.
Lol Got to love these pre-emptive posts by caldari pilots..
The ironic thing is everybody knows that caldari are always overpowered so you get people like this franticly trying to cover it up.
To the OP yes caldari are still the I-win race for any kind of combat...
Scorp is now not so uber that it's no longer called primary in any engagement. (Funny how such a crap ship was always considered such a threat ) But its still good in relation to all the other tier 1 bs..
Raven is still the strongest tier 2 bs in the game for almost every situation. (The perpetual cry of 'but our missiles take time to get to the target OMG! Is never really an issue in 90% of fights in eve unless your fleet is being particularly lame.)
Rook, falcon and bb are now reduced to the power-level of the other race's class equivalents.
Drake dmg is very good, particularly with the new launchers.
Eagle still has insane range for a cruiser and can still do fun things with blasters... (OMG i cant insta pop things whilst sitting 100km away, maybe ill have to develop some guts!)
Rokh is VERY good. Stronger tank then a raven (didnt think id ever say that lol) and if you fit it with neutron blasters you can hit at 30km range... Not to mention best sniper in the game obviously...
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ShadowlordUK
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:58:00 -
[22]
Edited by: ShadowlordUK on 29/11/2006 16:59:05 Double post
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: maomini The Rokh's still an awesome fleet ship, the fact that you can get 80-90% resists on all damages with a large extender and 3 damage mods is kinda nice :) . It's probably the best tank in the game.
It doesn't compare to the Megas damage at optimal fleet range though.
The Rook is actually able to exceed the old maximum jamming strength in RMR but you sacrifice all your lows so no more nano-Rooks. ;)
The Scorpion is the only ship that may see a reduction in use. It isn't as effective in fleet anymore, it needs an extra low slot to compensate for the ECM damage mods it now has to fit.
^^ Me, stupid alts..
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: ShadowlordUK
The ironic thing is everybody knows that caldari are always overpowered so you get people like this franticly trying to cover it up.
Another one dum as.
Quote: Scorp is now not so uber that it's no longer called primary in any engagement.
Yes, Scorp is obsolete. Better to hit regular BS, than Scorp, former best Caldari PvP ship.
Quote: Raven is still the strongest tier 2 bs in the game for almost every situation.
OMG! May be you have to bring your ass a bit farther from the Jita and missions lvl 3?
Quote: Rook, falcon and bb are now reduced to the power-level of the other race's class equivalents.
Particularly Arazu, Curse and Pilgrim.
Quote: Drake dmg is very good, particularly with the new launchers.
Drake damage is WORST among ALL BC except Ferox.
Quote: Eagle still has insane range for a cruiser and can still do fun things with blasters...
With Blasters Eagle is dead with rails Eagle can shut down only frig t1. --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: welsh wizard
The Drake is a good boat, it does good damage and tanks very well. It'll be an awesome ratter and good in pvp aslong as you have some friends to do the tackling.
What a brilliant idea! You need ANOTHER account to put Drake in Pvp. Btw, having dedicated tackler(s) you could make even stealth bomber useful. --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zixxa
Originally by: ShadowlordUK
The ironic thing is everybody knows that caldari are always overpowered so you get people like this franticly trying to cover it up.
Another one dum as.
Quote: Scorp is now not so uber that it's no longer called primary in any engagement.
Yes, Scorp is obsolete. Better to hit regular BS, than Scorp, former best Caldari PvP ship.
Quote: Raven is still the strongest tier 2 bs in the game for almost every situation.
OMG! May be you have to bring your ass a bit farther from the Jita and missions lvl 3?
Quote: Rook, falcon and bb are now reduced to the power-level of the other race's class equivalents.
Particularly Arazu, Curse and Pilgrim.
Quote: Drake dmg is very good, particularly with the new launchers.
Drake damage is WORST among ALL BC except Ferox.
Quote: Eagle still has insane range for a cruiser and can still do fun things with blasters...
With Blasters Eagle is dead with rails Eagle can shut down only frig t1.
You LIE Zixxa.
Because I said so...
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: PathetiQ now im lost! i mean wtf?
Drake the worst tier 2 BC?
everyone is talking of the drake till kali beta is out, saying its the best and can defeat tier 1/2 BS?
You did not read thread about tier 2 BCs. In this thread BEFORE nerf Drake has worst dps among all BC except Myrmidon. After nerf it has absolutely worst DPS. ANd Myrmidon is best one.
And do not tell me about HAM, you have to keep 15 km range to do real damage(less than half of Myrmidon damage), and Drake is slowest sluggiest BC available. --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Inairin
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:35:00 -
[28]
Going after what the forums scream, Caldari have been rendered totally useless and gimped after every patch that's been implemented since i started playing. No difference with this one.
People must love playing the underdog though considering the massive caldari population that never dvindels no matter what the doomspeakers forsee.
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James Saumerez
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ShadowlordUK
Lol Got to love these pre-emptive posts by caldari pilots..
The ironic thing is everybody knows that caldari are always overpowered so you get people like this franticly trying to cover it up.
To the OP yes caldari are still the I-win race for any kind of combat...
Silly. Knowing what you are doing and teamwork are the only "I win" button.
Originally by: ShadowlordUK
Scorp is now not so uber that it's no longer called primary in any engagement. (Funny how such a crap ship was always considered such a threat ) But its still good in relation to all the other tier 1 bs..
I agree with this for the most part but I think that a Domi is the best tier 1 BS overall.
Originally by: ShadowlordUK
Raven is still the strongest tier 2 bs in the game for almost every situation. (The perpetual cry of 'but our missiles take time to get to the target OMG! Is never really an issue in 90% of fights in eve unless your fleet is being particularly lame.)..
Basically I agree. It is the strongest in PvE. It is solid in small gang. It can contribute in Fleets.
Originally by: ShadowlordUK
Rook, falcon and bb are now reduced to the power-level of the other race's class equivalents.
No comment.
Originally by: ShadowlordUK
Drake dmg is very good, particularly with the new launchers.
Just bought one this morning so i can not comment other than to say that it looks like the devs were in a really really great mood when they came up with this ship. Holy crap!
Originally by: ShadowlordUK
Eagle still has insane range for a cruiser and can still do fun things with blasters... (OMG i cant insta pop things whilst sitting 100km away, maybe ill have to develop some guts!)
Can not really comment.
Originally by: ShadowlordUK
Rokh is VERY good. Stronger tank then a raven (didnt think id ever say that lol) and if you fit it with neutron blasters you can hit at 30km range... Not to mention best sniper in the game obviously...
Seems odd to me that we got this to be honest but I am not com plaining. Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. |
Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Inairin Going after what the forums scream, Caldari have been rendered totally useless and gimped after every patch that's been implemented since i started playing. No difference with this one.
People must love playing the underdog though considering the massive caldari population that never dvindels no matter what the doomspeakers forsee.
Apparently it never occured to you that new players choose a character mostly on looks, I know I did but also there were several surveys on that one.
Better than picking up some "soft boy" race and then compensating on forums by whining my 3 letters off night and day.
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