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Keldon Pax
Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 06:07:00 -
[151]
In the centre [of the Shield of Herakles] was Phobos<fear> worked in adamant, unspeakable, staring backwards with eyes that glowed with fire. His mouth was full of teeth in a white row, fearful and daunting, and upon his grim brow hovered frightful Eris (Strife) who arrays the throng of men ... Upon the shield Proioxis (Pursuit) and Palioxis (Flight) were wrought, and Homados (Tumult), and Phobos (Panic), and Androktasie (Slaughter). Eris (Strife) also, and Kydoimos (Uproar) were hurrying about, and deadly Ker (Fate). –Shield of Heracles 139f
Yes Phobos, I think the Romans called him <timor> And thank the gods for Wikipedia
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Liu Kaskakka
PAK
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Posted - 2006.12.01 06:13:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Dianabolic Hellraiza join IRC please.
****it, stop censoring your members!! I forgot what he posted!! >_<
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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Omeega
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.12.01 06:36:00 -
[153]
i have 1.4mil SP.
fo' ****zle.
Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.01 06:38:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Seleene on 01/12/2006 06:38:20
Originally by: Omeega i have 1.4mil SP.
fo' ****zle.
All in Trade and Industry, right? I knew you were an alt. -
Oz's Tourney Betting Pool |
Milena Rage
Another Lame Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.01 06:44:00 -
[155]
I like to pretend i'm in BoB fighting off the menacing ASCN.
who else is with me?
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Evelyn Exe
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:57:00 -
[156]
Originally by: ProphetGuru Edited by: ProphetGuru on 30/11/2006 18:21:00
Originally by: Evelyn Exe But an experienced and dedicated character with 25m+ SP is more use than the same person with less SP simply because they are less able to use T2 mods.
This is where you fail.
Look, I certainly understand the logic of your argument, don't mis-interpet me. I just see it fundamentally different.
The point is, the mindset of applying usefullness to someone in your alliance based on anything other then the attitude and personality of said person is the difference between us and you. I place my isk on 1yr old BoB chars over a 3yr old xyz char, because they have killer instinct, and know that they already outclass xyz just by being BoB.
It's part of what makes us better then you.
It's a big part of the reason you are losing, and will continue to lose your space.
edit-format
So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP? You would take the latter because they are more flexible and because the greater number of SP wuold tend to suggest that they would haev more experience of the game and be moer self reliant in terms of isk and isk generating ability.
That is pretty much what I said, it is you trying to mis-interpret me by trying to make this into an argument about attitude and SP.
As for the "better" bit, well OK, I admit that you are better at playing this specific video game than the average person.
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.01 10:18:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Evelyn Exe So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP?
Since you seem so hung up on this issue, how many skill points do you think Farjung, formerly MC and now in BoB, has?
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Oz's Tourney Betting Pool |
Weebear
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 10:21:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Evelyn Exe So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP?
Since you seem so hung up on this issue, how many skill points do you think Farjung, formerly MC and now in BoB, has?
800K |
Leno
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.12.01 10:37:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Weebear
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Evelyn Exe So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP?
Since you seem so hung up on this issue, how many skill points do you think Farjung, formerly MC and now in BoB, has?
800K
nah he isnt one of those new characters that get to start with loads more sp! --------------- RIP - Smoske, My Friend
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DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 10:46:00 -
[160]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 01/12/2006 10:47:42
Originally by: Evelyn Exe
So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP? You would take the latter because they are more flexible and because the greater number of SP wuold tend to suggest that they would haev more experience of the game and be moer self reliant in terms of isk and isk generating ability.
No.
We would take the guy who fits in best with our ethos.
If we were only based on sp or looked to get the best sp players then we would miss out on some of the best players in the game.
I'm sorry but you are wrong, RKK have never based recruitment on how many sp a player has got.
If that were the case then we wouldn't have laughed off some of the peeps asking to join us just because they had 30m+ sp.
SP can be trained in this game over time but there as some human skills that are simply unique.
I don't know why you are arguing this point, perhaps you are looking for more excuses for you alliances failings.
You obviously have no clue about how we hire or how we play together as an alliance and are just saying stuff randomly based on your baised opinion of our alliance.
Either way, on this point, you are completely and utterly incorrect.
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
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BlackRain
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:20:00 -
[161]
Synergy of alignment, style of play and general attitude far outweight the effect of superior SP amount. This is not even an issue to argue about. -------------------
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Juan Andalusian
TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:51:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Shin Ra Just to reinforce this point.
I joined BE with 800k skillpoints, currently have 26 mil and still pwn Dr Caymus any day of the week.
I'd pay good isk to watch a Dr Caymus vs Shin Ra match.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Shin Ra
BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:11:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Originally by: Shin Ra Just to reinforce this point.
I joined BE with 800k skillpoints, currently have 26 mil and still pwn Dr Caymus any day of the week.
I'd pay good isk to watch a Dr Caymus vs Shin Ra match.
We can schdule it after the Farjung vs DaMige match.
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Moghydin
Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:19:00 -
[164]
It seems that BoB accepts new characters into its ranks May be there are e few relatively new guys in your alliance, but those seem to be exceptions (may be RL friends of some vets). When I see BoB in local, I sometimes open the char info and look at employment history. 75% approx. I see 2004 character, sometimes it's 2003, very rare I see 2005 chars. I know those who joined BoB out of my 1-st in-game alliance. All of them are FC's or PvP corp directors, who already were vets when I was a fresh n00b. Are you trying to prove that all those guys who roam around in command ships and HACs are noobs with 5 mill sp? Or those who use T2 large guns in fleet fights joined game 2 months ago?
Facts speak for themselves, BoB is the most elitist vet oriented alliance in game. And don't try to spin that as an attempt to justify anything. For me the better the opponent the better the challenge.
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Deathwing
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:27:00 -
[165]
Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 01/12/2006 10:47:42
Originally by: Evelyn Exe
So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP? You would take the latter because they are more flexible and because the greater number of SP wuold tend to suggest that they would haev more experience of the game and be moer self reliant in terms of isk and isk generating ability.
No.
We would take the guy who fits in best with our ethos.
If we were only based on sp or looked to get the best sp players then we would miss out on some of the best players in the game.
I'm sorry but you are wrong, RKK have never based recruitment on how many sp a player has got.
If that were the case then we wouldn't have laughed off some of the peeps asking to join us just because they had 30m+ sp.
SP can be trained in this game over time but there as some human skills that are simply unique.
I don't know why you are arguing this point, perhaps you are looking for more excuses for you alliances failings.
You obviously have no clue about how we hire or how we play together as an alliance and are just saying stuff randomly based on your baised opinion of our alliance.
Either way, on this point, you are completely and utterly incorrect.
dbp
I have like 43mil sp or something.....but everyone in BoB knows im just there to increase BoB's aesthetic value
I dont actually do anything
<Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS |
DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:32:00 -
[166]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 01/12/2006 12:32:37
Originally by: Moghydin Facts speak for themselves, BoB is the most elitist vet oriented alliance in game. And don't try to spin that as an attempt to justify anything. For me the better the opponent the better the challenge.
If you are going to claim facts speak for themselves then you have to actually use facts.
At present, I believe Insurgency are actually the most elitist vet orientated alliance in game, and they are proud of this fact.
As proven in E-ON magazine when they had a look at the best sp alliance. Guess what, we weren't there.
We have players of all SP.
But I'm confused, what are ASCN trying to prove with this point?
That it's ok to get owned by us because we have more SP than you?
Sorry, dudes, you are wrong. SP has nothing to do with it.
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
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Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:40:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Kcel Chim on 01/12/2006 12:44:44
Originally by: Moghydin It seems that BoB accepts new characters into its ranks May be there are e few relatively new guys in your alliance, but those seem to be exceptions (may be RL friends of some vets). When I see BoB in local, I sometimes open the char info and look at employment history. 75% approx. I see 2004 character, sometimes it's 2003, very rare I see 2005 chars. I know those who joined BoB out of my 1-st in-game alliance. All of them are FC's or PvP corp directors, who already were vets when I was a fresh n00b. Are you trying to prove that all those guys who roam around in command ships and HACs are noobs with 5 mill sp? Or those who use T2 large guns in fleet fights joined game 2 months ago?
Facts speak for themselves, BoB is the most elitist vet oriented alliance in game. And don't try to spin that as an attempt to justify anything. For me the better the opponent the better the challenge.
as dbp pointed out bob recruits not based on skillpoints. This doesnt mean they recruit every noob they can get their hands on either (hello ascn). So far bob recruitment strategy (as far as i can from my own pov judge) has been to recruit ppl "known" within their alliance which bring already the needed community spirit and "mature" approach required to run a powerhouse. As much as local smack or forum posturing might taint that sometimes, to run such a powerhouse it requires two things, loyalty and discipline (sp?).
Their low overall numbers (enforced by the wish to stay relatively small) and their strictly on invites based recruiting system prevents huge waves of newcomers joining. Combine that with the general attitude "once bob ill stay bob until the servers die" and you have a stable playerbase of vets combined with some fresh blood (which somehow got the attention for an invite).
So my conclusion is that skillpoints indeed dont matter much because the bob directors know that within their time in bob ppl will advance to the needed levels and they know that there are many different tasks you can specialize in. 1000 titan pilots arent needed like not everyone "must fly a battleship" either. To characterize Bob as a "high skp consuming demon who just beats up poor noobs" is hillarious and wrong considering the fact that most alliances have a solid core of high skp pilots and that unless u want to fly capital ships u have reached a solid allround (t2 guns, drones, all ships)pvp level at 20 mil skp which equals to 12+ months playtime. Highly specialized (one one small shiptype, one weapontype and only the required supportskills)you can reach that long before. That this is possible even on an alliance wide scale was illustrated not long ago by Goonswams internal info beeing leaked, uncovering their huge capital program. Not to mention due to allowed charactertransfers (for isk) it is also possible to buy "high skillpoints" for little money if an alliance would really need them.
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:12:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Evelyn Exe So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP?
Since you seem so hung up on this issue, how many skill points do you think Farjung, formerly MC and now in BoB, has?
I think Farjung was still training for a Taranis when he joined FRICK? :) -
- One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them. |
Crovan
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:17:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Evelyn Exe So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP?
Since you seem so hung up on this issue, how many skill points do you think Farjung, formerly MC and now in BoB, has?
I think Farjung was still training for a Taranis when he joined FRICK? :)
I was waiting for your other favorite Farjung line.
Also, I thought MC was the retirement home for veterans? sheesh. Quit stealing our thunder, BoB.
Originally by: Seleene
Client - "You smash them." MC - "Ooooh! Good! Like to smash!"
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Nez Perces
Amarr Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:20:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Kcel Chim loyalty and discipline
Right there, in those two words is encapsualted the key to EVE, certainly at the corporate and alliance level.
One might be forgiven for believing that these are simple things, and that most of us inherently transfer those qualites over from RL.
But to achieve those two things in an artificial environment such as EVE requires a certain amount of intelectual rationalisation.
It takes discipline to successfully hold 0.0 space and it takes a threshold of loyalty to find the will to be disciplined.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here.. and speculate that ASCN have loyalty to their alliance, corp, leaders... but not sufficient of it to make the effort to be disciplined, to do things they don't necessarily enjoy in the moment, to achieve a greater goal... like spending time and effort to have the pvp stature to match your 0.0 ambitions.
And thats why BoB is walking all over you.
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Kaleeb
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:40:00 -
[171]
Hey DBP I remember the dev post awhile ago about corps with the most sp's etc and I think Celes were 3rd. You mention there being an alliance ranking somewhere, can you link or list them pls?
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DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:48:00 -
[172]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 01/12/2006 13:50:00
Originally by: Kaleeb Hey DBP I remember the dev post awhile ago about corps with the most sp's etc and I think Celes were 3rd. You mention there being an alliance ranking somewhere, can you link or list them pls?
You are correct kaleeb, it was based on corporations(I just rechecked my info).
However, since they have gone straight into an alliance essentially as only celest, I would be very, very surprised if they were not one of the top sp based alliances per player in the game.
Darth is very proud of this fact and they do base alot of their recruitment on getting high sp, good pvp'ers in... as it works well within their corp (I don't want to speak too much on behalf of celest as Darth is very capable of doing it himself).
However, there is one thing I would like to point out as a conclusion to this argument.
When we came into this war, we were told that ASCN had 100 carriers and the pilots for them.
BoB do not have 100 carrier pilots by any stretch of the imagination.
So seriously, stop whining about our SP. This isn't the reason we are wining.
I've highlighted the reasons you are losing in the original post and, quite frankly, ascn's posts in this thread have done nothing except highlight these facts.
Phobos. Industrial disaster.
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
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Kaleeb
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:58:00 -
[173]
Cheers wasnt sure if you had found some other stats I didnt know about.
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HatePeace LoveWar
Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:16:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Evelyn Exe When was the last time BoB felt any fear of defeat or a real challenge? Not in the last couple of years I bet.
Id say when G came back for their outpost.
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HatePeace LoveWar
Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:23:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Originally by: konkord
Originally by: Evelyn Exe
Originally by: Kathar Narka reply
Thanks for the excellent reply Kathar, very well put.
Is it a good reply? Well written yes but i wonder why ASCN was chosen as a target (an alliance not known for its combat backbone) over say 2 more capable, smaller target such as MC and someone else.
Why? because ASCN were ripe targets. Big enough not to get grief over 'bullying' and with a combatative/industrial pilot ratio that was sympathetic to an easy fight. I would have done the same, BoB, but dont think we were the only possible target.
Thats why Ascn lost all its credibility. Youre whining you get attacked by a small pvp alliance and portray yourself as some poor industrial guy who just wants to dig the rocks.
Ascn was choosen because youre a) the biggest alliance memberwise in the game b) one of the supposed to be "titans" of eve c) throw your polticial weight around like a superpower d) act like a superpower when it comes to dealing with neighbours and "lesser beeings" (Cyvok still hasnt learned from the Xetic days it seems) and e) build outposts and titans and capital ships and gloat about it and your general wealthyness in public f) because your pvp is sooo weak (sarcasm) that youre constantly warring other neighbours (RA) or go on roadtrips North if youre bored or claim that you pulled the major weight in EC against trust...
Take all those points together and think again about the poor miner bloke who is just in an industrial alliance.... Doesnt match ? Thought so.
Cyvok gets schooled a second time in the same lesson he failed with Xetic at. If you dont have the muscles dont run your mouth / attract a beating.
Reminds me of your Planetarion smack Focht! :P
<3
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DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:36:00 -
[176]
As a teaser, here is a very short promotional video which will give you a hint as to what comes next.
We're Coming.
Good luck, dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
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Yeggstry
Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:46:00 -
[177]
Originally by: HatePeace LoveWar
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Originally by: konkord
Originally by: Evelyn Exe
Originally by: Kathar Narka reply
Thanks for the excellent reply Kathar, very well put.
Is it a good reply? Well written yes but i wonder why ASCN was chosen as a target (an alliance not known for its combat backbone) over say 2 more capable, smaller target such as MC and someone else.
Why? because ASCN were ripe targets. Big enough not to get grief over 'bullying' and with a combatative/industrial pilot ratio that was sympathetic to an easy fight. I would have done the same, BoB, but dont think we were the only possible target.
Thats why Ascn lost all its credibility. Youre whining you get attacked by a small pvp alliance and portray yourself as some poor industrial guy who just wants to dig the rocks.
Ascn was choosen because youre a) the biggest alliance memberwise in the game b) one of the supposed to be "titans" of eve c) throw your polticial weight around like a superpower d) act like a superpower when it comes to dealing with neighbours and "lesser beeings" (Cyvok still hasnt learned from the Xetic days it seems) and e) build outposts and titans and capital ships and gloat about it and your general wealthyness in public f) because your pvp is sooo weak (sarcasm) that youre constantly warring other neighbours (RA) or go on roadtrips North if youre bored or claim that you pulled the major weight in EC against trust...
Take all those points together and think again about the poor miner bloke who is just in an industrial alliance.... Doesnt match ? Thought so.
Cyvok gets schooled a second time in the same lesson he failed with Xetic at. If you dont have the muscles dont run your mouth / attract a beating.
Reminds me of your Planetarion smack Focht! :P
<3
Focht?! :D /me waves
Long time no see, had a feeling you'd pop up in here :P
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kublai
Short Attention Span
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:49:00 -
[178]
Looking at the battleship kill/loss ratio this war has had, it's hard to say it's due to SP, I mean even tech I guns will be able to kill battleships when you have enough of them, and god knows ASCN has enough of them.
Now I have a character that fires using t1 long range guns and another with t2 long range guns, the t2 guns do by far more damage, but let me assure you that i'll be able to harm your ship with the t1's :)
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Lowa
Gallente North Star Networks
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:06:00 -
[179]
I only gonna say a few things:
- Skill make up for a whole lot of SP. - SP has nothing to do with success in fleet combat or campaign warfare at this level. - 100 T1 guns will kill your target just as good as T2 guns. - Tactics and knowledge of battles is what tips the balance. (i.e not in range with T1 guns? Move!)
Now lets get it on (*ding-ding*) so the teaser can become a full blown (pun intended) movie.
Cheers, Lowa <-- No skill, just sp btw
What if the truth was something else? |
Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:14:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Yeggstry
Focht?! :D /me waves
Long time no see, had a feeling you'd pop up in here :P
hey yeggstry, im not popping up here ive been here since the start. welcome onboard m8, hope u enjoy the fighting and the game. Ill try to catch you next time i visit irc or login for an extended time.
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