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GAJY
The Monkey Island Cannibals
4
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Posted - 2015.07.07 14:14:13 -
[1] - Quote
For me personally I just see them and attribute implants as an extra thing to put new players off PVP. For people I know who play, they're just a nuisance and they wouldn't care if they were gone, just something you have to remap once in awhile and spend money on, yet it adds nothing to the experience. |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
690
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Posted - 2015.07.07 14:21:16 -
[2] - Quote
People use new players as argument for and against anything nowadays. Would you prefer the game tries to reach out for everyone?Where would the smart people go then?
It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
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Ivant Sumboodi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2015.07.07 14:29:42 -
[3] - Quote
idk about smart people, I just don't want the i-win people to get carte blanche here. There's always an i-win for people like OP, it's called Character Bazaar. Use it. |
Commissar Rain
Team Evil
569
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Posted - 2015.07.07 14:30:26 -
[4] - Quote
Skills are bad for new players too. Along with ISK.
Remove both.
Also you don't spend money to do remaps.
Member of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1456
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Posted - 2015.07.07 14:44:46 -
[5] - Quote
Commissar Rain wrote:Skills are bad for new players too. Along with ISK.
Remove both.
Also you don't spend money to do remaps.
Actually the worst thing for new players is other players, really. I think it would just be best to remove everyone, in one progressive swoop. This is idea is not any worse than all the hilarious nonsense people have been spouting over the years in regards to "newbies catching up" and "this game should be made easier". |
Hengle Teron
Explosions Delivered with Love
54674
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Posted - 2015.07.07 14:47:02 -
[6] - Quote
They are there, so we can either choose to train anything at same speed, or limit ourselves only to specific skill groups, but train those faster. |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
755
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Posted - 2015.07.07 14:49:58 -
[7] - Quote
They're looking at ways to remove attributes, but the existence of implants is complicating matters. I cant find the source atm, but if you google, search etc you can probably find it. There is probably a discussion about it you can join.
The "basic" skills are also being looked at. Mostly in the form of beefing up starting skillpoints so n00bs can actually warp from gate to gate for example. |
stoicfaux
6071
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Posted - 2015.07.07 15:10:47 -
[8] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:They're looking at ways to remove attributes, but the existence of implants is complicating matters. I cant find the source atm, but if you google, search etc you can probably find it. There is probably a discussion about it you can join.
The "basic" skills are also being looked at. Mostly in the form of beefing up starting skillpoints so n00bs can actually warp from gate to gate for example. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=432569&find=unread
Q: 'Attributes aren't very interesting, you should remove them' A: Again, we agree. Team Size Matters discussed removing them on the o7 show (or some other public venue) awhile back and it's still something we are very interested in. We need to figure out a good way to handle all the learning implants in the game though, which is actually a difficult problem. If any of you have awesome ideas for how to handle it don't hesitate to make suggestions.
If you have feedback or ideas about the New Player Experience, then you will want to post in that thread.
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24135
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Posted - 2015.07.07 15:17:36 -
[9] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:Mostly in the form of beefing up starting skillpoints so n00bs can actually warp from gate to gate for example. I hope to, insert deity of choice, that this is sarcasm
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
367
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Posted - 2015.07.07 15:20:46 -
[10] - Quote
GAJY wrote:yet it adds nothing to the experience. Same as you for me. You exist, thats all.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Gaellia Bonaventure
EVE University Ivy League
4185
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Posted - 2015.07.07 15:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Just remove all the players from the game and everything will be fine.
Bring your possibles.
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Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
757
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Posted - 2015.07.07 16:06:51 -
[12] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Yarda Black wrote:Mostly in the form of beefing up starting skillpoints so n00bs can actually warp from gate to gate for example. I hope to, insert deity of choice, that this is sarcasm
You wish lol
Im sorry to say your deity failed you and gave us "warpdrive operation" |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24138
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Posted - 2015.07.07 16:12:30 -
[13] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Yarda Black wrote:Mostly in the form of beefing up starting skillpoints so n00bs can actually warp from gate to gate for example. I hope to, insert deity of choice, that this is sarcasm You wish lol Im sorry to say your deity failed you and gave us "warpdrive operation" ahh I read that the wrong way . I read it as "newbies can't warp to a gate because of SP"
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Baaldor
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion.
348
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Posted - 2015.07.07 16:22:16 -
[14] - Quote
FFS, just convert the game to Pong and be done with it. As that is the direction of this game anyhow. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10761
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Posted - 2015.07.07 16:30:34 -
[15] - Quote
I think this is what happens when 3 million people suddenly quit WoW and every game forum is filled with 'make this game easy naow'. Attributes aren't the problem. |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
282
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Posted - 2015.07.07 17:15:28 -
[16] - Quote
Attributes aren't the Big Bad, but they're certainly an unintuitive and unfun system. The mourning process following their demise will be short.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Baaldor
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion.
352
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Posted - 2015.07.07 18:20:17 -
[17] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Attributes aren't the Big Bad, but they're certainly an unintuitive and unfun system. The mourning process following their demise will be short.
I think it really separates pilots a bit as to make them a wee bit different. meaning that it is another way of adjusting (or not) the process of learning something another pilot may not value as much and able to pool or push their attributes towards that direction.
It gives a slightl uniqueness to one pilot verses another rather than the vanilla cookie cutter stamp out some sort of character etc etc. |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
39
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Posted - 2015.07.07 20:03:06 -
[18] - Quote
GAJY wrote: yet it adds nothing to the experience. They add an option to specialise your character. This is surely not the best way to do it, but if they remove it, another option to customize your character is gone. I know CCP needs to reduce unnecessary complexity to keep new players, but if you make everything easy and straightforward EVE wouldnt be EVE anymore. Change attributes or if you remove them, give us another way to customize our character (this does not mean more cosmetics).
EDIT: This:
Baaldor wrote:Chance Ravinne wrote:Attributes aren't the Big Bad, but they're certainly an unintuitive and unfun system. The mourning process following their demise will be short. I think it really separates pilots a bit as to make them a wee bit different. meaning that it is another way of adjusting (or not) the process of learning something another pilot may not value as much and able to pool or push their attributes towards that direction. It gives a slightl uniqueness to one pilot verses another rather than the vanilla cookie cutter stamp out some sort of character etc etc. |
stoicfaux
6078
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Posted - 2015.07.07 20:06:54 -
[19] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Attributes aren't the Big Bad, but they're certainly an unintuitive and unfun system. The mourning process following their demise will be short. The 30 day accelerated learning boosters/implants sold in the NES will help ease the sense of loss.
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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stoicfaux
6078
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Posted - 2015.07.07 20:18:20 -
[20] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:Chance Ravinne wrote:Attributes aren't the Big Bad, but they're certainly an unintuitive and unfun system. The mourning process following their demise will be short. I think it really separates pilots a bit as to make them a wee bit different. meaning that it is another way of adjusting (or not) the process of learning something another pilot may not value as much and able to pool or push their attributes towards that direction. It gives a slightl uniqueness to one pilot verses another rather than the vanilla cookie cutter stamp out some sort of character etc etc. I can't even agree that they provided even a "slight uniqueness" between pilots. Uniqueness between pilots implies character. Attributes are simply a min-maxing technique to optimize your yearly skill plan. Based on a character's attributes, do you go around saying things like, oh hey, that pilot is smart! Or that pilot is charismatic? Do you fly combat ships because your pilot has high perception? Do you only do industry with your high intelligence characters? What is the average Charisma attribute of Fleet Commanders?
I would guess that even role-players don't take their attributes seriously.
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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Baaldor
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion.
356
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Posted - 2015.07.07 20:26:52 -
[21] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Baaldor wrote:Chance Ravinne wrote:Attributes aren't the Big Bad, but they're certainly an unintuitive and unfun system. The mourning process following their demise will be short. I think it really separates pilots a bit as to make them a wee bit different. meaning that it is another way of adjusting (or not) the process of learning something another pilot may not value as much and able to pool or push their attributes towards that direction. It gives a slightl uniqueness to one pilot verses another rather than the vanilla cookie cutter stamp out some sort of character etc etc. I can't even agree that they provided even a "slight uniqueness" between pilots. Uniqueness between pilots implies character. Attributes are simply a min-maxing technique to optimize your yearly skill plan. Based on a character's attributes, do you go around saying things like, oh hey, that pilot is smart! Or that pilot is charismatic? Do you fly combat ships because your pilot has high perception? Do you only do industry with your high intelligence characters? What is the average Charisma attribute of Fleet Commanders? I would guess that even role-players don't take their attributes seriously.
You read into what I was saying possibly.
I guess where I am coming from is when you have a focus as to where you are going with your character, you will manipulate the stats to achieve. I said 'A BIT' and 'SLIGHT' not some dramatic differences. You know nuances. subtle differences?
You see it all of the time in the character bazaar, there is no two pilots exactly alike.
And as far as role playing...where in the fck did you get that from. |
d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
196
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Posted - 2015.07.07 21:10:47 -
[22] - Quote
GAJY wrote:For me personally I just see them and attribute implants as an extra thing to put new players off PVP. For people I know who play, they're just a nuisance and they wouldn't care if they were gone, just something you have to remap once in awhile and spend money on, yet it adds nothing to the experience.
No one is forcing you to use implants.
Your car (if you are old enough to drive) can go above the speed limit. Maybe we should electronically limit it to the speed limit while we are at it...
Personally when i have a 65 day skill to train and i stick some implants, i can take a week or two off that. That's pretty cool. |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
110
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Posted - 2015.07.08 01:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Attributes aren't the Big Bad, but they're certainly an unintuitive and unfun system. The mourning process following their demise will be short. Speak for yourself, I find the decisions which the current system present the player quite interesting, and if your looking for a game in which things are intuitive then your in the wrong game. Removing attributes would fix literally nothing and at the same time remove an element of the game some players find interesting. If you don't like the system then just put on a balanced remap and you can train your skills however you like. |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
720
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Posted - 2015.07.08 01:38:14 -
[24] - Quote
Webvan wrote:I think this is what happens when 3 million people suddenly quit WoW and every game forum is filled with 'make this game easy naow'. Attributes aren't the problem. Dang, you're right!
It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
420
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Posted - 2015.07.08 02:00:58 -
[25] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Webvan wrote:I think this is what happens when 3 million people suddenly quit WoW and every game forum is filled with 'make this game easy naow'. Attributes aren't the problem. Dang, you're right!
Or 8 year olds who think spelling now, naow, is cute. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2015.07.08 02:08:36 -
[26] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Attributes aren't the Big Bad, but they're certainly an unintuitive and unfun system. The mourning process following their demise will be short. Sometimes I go back and read how loudly, insistently and staunchly people defended Learning skills, just to see how much of a tempest in a teapot the Starter SP/Attribute removal conversations are. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10767
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Posted - 2015.07.08 02:22:37 -
[27] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Webvan wrote:I think this is what happens when 3 million people suddenly quit WoW and every game forum is filled with 'make this game easy naow'. Attributes aren't the problem. Dang, you're right! Or 8 year olds who think spelling now, naow, is cute. needs moar cowbell
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Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
282
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Posted - 2015.07.08 03:39:33 -
[28] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Chance Ravinne wrote:Attributes aren't the Big Bad, but they're certainly an unintuitive and unfun system. The mourning process following their demise will be short. Speak for yourself, I find the decisions which the current system present the player quite interesting, and if your looking for a game in which things are intuitive then your in the wrong game. Removing attributes would fix literally nothing and at the same time remove an element of the game some players find interesting. If you don't like the system then just put on a balanced remap and you can train your skills however you like.
I don't like the system because as a min maxer it forces me to plan around pointless arbitrary figures that have no meaningful in game effect.
As for character differentiation, that's what overpriced digital apparel is for, and the best part is other players can actually see it.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
729
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Posted - 2015.07.08 10:56:49 -
[29] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Chance Ravinne wrote:Attributes aren't the Big Bad, but they're certainly an unintuitive and unfun system. The mourning process following their demise will be short. Speak for yourself, I find the decisions which the current system present the player quite interesting, and if your looking for a game in which things are intuitive then your in the wrong game. Removing attributes would fix literally nothing and at the same time remove an element of the game some players find interesting. If you don't like the system then just put on a balanced remap and you can train your skills however you like. I don't like the system because as a min maxer it forces me to plan around pointless arbitrary figures that have no meaningful in game effect. As for character differentiation, that's what overpriced digital apparel is for, and the best part is other players can actually see it. It's not about wearing fancy clothes, it's about fancy clothes hiding what is underneath ...
It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10771
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Posted - 2015.07.08 13:31:30 -
[30] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I don't like the system because as a min maxer it forces me to plan around pointless arbitrary figures that have no meaningful in game effect.
As for character differentiation, that's what overpriced digital apparel is for, and the best part is other players can actually see it.
Attributes better reflect real life. It's typical to say be a better artist than to be a better programmer. Or to be a better fictional writer than to be a better mathamatician. Otherwise there would be no such need for things like college placement tests etc.
Also EVE reflects more traditional rpg style gaming such as you find in MUD's or table top gaming (e.g dnd), not mario kart or pac man. This is far better suited for the rpg type player.
If you make a game try to be everything for everyone, you only make a game for no one. |
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