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Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
209
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Posted - 2015.07.12 23:53:18 -
[1] - Quote
I'm concerned.
The foundation of every MMO is solo play.
But what tends to happen is people see Multiplayer and assume that everyone wants to form gangs.
It's absolutely not true.
We can see that echoed in this dev blog...
"We have never been particularly satisfied with how the majority of Sov upgrade PVE content tends to lean towards solo or multibox play. "
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-of-sov-nullsec-pve-and-upgrades/
~~~
What tends to happen next is that rewards for gangs (usually of five) gaming is overly rewarded, in a shabby attempt to get players to network and bring in their friends.
And the attempt fails because it denies player choice. It forces playstyle.
The only time the sandbox should be fully enclosed is for PvP.
People love fair fights. You can see that in the success of Starcraft and League of Legends etc. Even numbers and so on.
But making solo players become second class because they choose not to enjoy forced playstyles doesn't work. EVE Online will keep them, because they tend to be fantastically loyal, but it will reinforce a community division.
So if CCP decides to bring in "rewarding" group play, then we can expect forum wars over the topic. Because as CCP admit, people do like solo play, even if they have to multibox to do it.
That love of solo play is the same for every MMO.
So what might be best is to make sure every player can enjoy every aspect of the game solo, and perhaps with some sort of modular design allow that to escalate to groups, if players choose.
But hey, what do I know.
Although I will bet EVE goes with the tried and true, groups of five strangers PUG dungeon design. I wish them the success that the strategy deserves.
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1862
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:00:34 -
[2] - Quote
The problem is solo players who are not making (enough) friends and quitting after a short time of playing and becoming bored. There isn't much tempting them into team play in the paddling pool.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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DaReaper
Net 7
2338
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:06:47 -
[3] - Quote
CCP's own documents state if you solo play eve you are 80% likely to quit after 3 months. So whatever argument you state past that is utterly moot.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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LazyDeer
Wok The Dog Naga Please.
16
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:10:13 -
[4] - Quote
Almost everything in eve can be solo now? I don't understand your argument. Also fair fights just means you both are equally bad at playing the game. There will be no such thing as fair in a game that has tactics, counters, logistics, and variety to choose from. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2338
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:11:33 -
[5] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote: +snip+ That love of solo play is the same for every MMO. *snip+
But hey, what do I know. *snip*
Obviously nothing if you have not gotten it that eve is not like other mmo's. that's what makes it better.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13597
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:11:49 -
[6] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote: The foundation of every MMO is solo play.
The second M.
You might be a special snowflake solo player, but don't make the mistake in assuming that everyone shares such a sentiment.
MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.
Quote: But making solo players become second class because they choose not to enjoy forced playstyles doesn't work.
What you're really asking for here is that numbers cease being a force multiplier, so you don't feel like you are making the wrong choice.
And that will never happen. Deal with it.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
422
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:31:55 -
[7] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.
Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13597
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:38:54 -
[8] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.
Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.
And my assertion is that people like you are outliers. I don't think you don't exist, I merely question the claim that people who expressly play multiplayer games with the intent of not using any multiplayer features are a significant group.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1862
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:41:08 -
[9] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:... Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me. Crazy people talking to the AI and thinking they hear them talk back.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
422
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:42:05 -
[10] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.
Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me. And my assertion is that people like you are outliers. I don't think you don't exist, I merely question the claim that people who expressly play multiplayer games with the intent of not using any multiplayer features are a significant group.
You are correct. I would rather play a single player space game but there wasn't one available. |
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Lethal Intent.
4445
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:43:22 -
[11] - Quote
asteroids? |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
422
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:45:38 -
[12] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:asteroids?
I do have a C-64 in the closet. |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
422
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:47:22 -
[13] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:... Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me. Crazy people talking to the AI and thinking they hear them talk back.
Are your enemies on your teamspeak server too? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Lethal Intent.
4445
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:49:51 -
[14] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:asteroids? I do have a C-64 in the closet. Starflight is really what I would love to see be remade with modern technology. i had to google c-64 to learn what it was |
Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1578
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:50:08 -
[15] - Quote
This is a long time overdue. I actually can't think of another MMO that disincentivizes group PVE more than EVE. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2338
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:51:17 -
[16] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.
Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.
you are the 20% that stays after 3 months =)
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
422
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:53:23 -
[17] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.
Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me. you are the 20% that stays after 3 months =)
So is my friend in our two man corp. We actually have two real people playing two characters and no alts. |
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6639
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:53:35 -
[18] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:
The foundation of every MMO is solo play.
The first misconception that leads to almost every other misconception about EVE Online - EVE is not every MMO. It is unique. It is, first and above all else, a PVP game. It was designed from the outset as one, has always been intended as one, and makes no bones about being anything but a PVP game. That is the whole reason PVE is so generic and repetitive, but also, even that which appears to be PVE is still PVP by virtue of it all taking place on a single-shard player-driven environment. Deny it, hate it, whatever, that's what EVE is, and what it was designed to be. The sooner you realise and accept this, the sooner you can figure out how to enjoy yourself playing it, no matter how you choose to do so.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
422
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:56:18 -
[19] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:
The foundation of every MMO is solo play.
The first misconception that leads to almost every other misconception about EVE Online - EVE is not every MMO. It is unique. It is, first and above all else, a PVP game. It was designed from the outset as one, has always been intended as one, and makes no bones about being anything but a PVP game. That is the whole reason PVE is so generic and repetitive, but also, even that which appears to be PVE is still PVP by virtue of it all taking place on a single-shard player-driven environment. Deny it, hate it, whatever, that's what EVE is, and what it was designed to be. The sooner you realise and accept this, the sooner you can figure out how to enjoy yourself playing it, no matter how you choose to do so.
PVP and solo are not at odds. |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
520
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Posted - 2015.07.13 00:58:44 -
[20] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.
Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.
I thought you enjoyed your time in BARES
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
422
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Posted - 2015.07.13 01:00:30 -
[21] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.
Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me. I thought you enjoyed your time in BARES
I did enjoy my time in BARES but I am not a miner / industrialist. The guy who runs it is great though. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11073
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Posted - 2015.07.13 01:01:09 -
[22] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:People love fair fights. You can see that in the success of Starcraft and League of Legends etc. Even numbers and so on. Wut?? Starcraft is a mmorpg? No... it's a MOBA. If you like MOBA's, go play MOBA's
EVE is a massively-multiplayer openworld sandbox spaceship simulator, huge difference. And it's fairly an old-school one at that, one of the last remaining old-school mmo's that is still around or didn't revamp gameplay to the current fail gen of mmo's. Yep, new mmo's are designed around casual solo play, it's the hook on the line to catch the big whales that spend tens of thousands of dollars each in their f2p games.
I was at EQ1 at launch, sooooo not a solo game. But revamped and pretty much died. I was in UO it's first year, not a solo game. But revamped and pretty much died. None of which had "forced solo play", but it was far better to group than it was to solo.
For openworld mmo games there is a balance, either group play must be stronger or solo play, and there is no even balance that can be formulated. Truly successful mmo's (not just number counts) have always leaned towards groups, otherwise what is the point in even making it an mmo apart from trying to milk players for every penny that can be had?
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
tap-tap to skip through music playlist.
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Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6639
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Posted - 2015.07.13 01:07:14 -
[23] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:
The foundation of every MMO is solo play.
The first misconception that leads to almost every other misconception about EVE Online - EVE is not every MMO. It is unique. It is, first and above all else, a PVP game. It was designed from the outset as one, has always been intended as one, and makes no bones about being anything but a PVP game. That is the whole reason PVE is so generic and repetitive, but also, even that which appears to be PVE is still PVP by virtue of it all taking place on a single-shard player-driven environment. Deny it, hate it, whatever, that's what EVE is, and what it was designed to be. The sooner you realise and accept this, the sooner you can figure out how to enjoy yourself playing it, no matter how you choose to do so. PVP and solo are not at odds.
But the nature of EVE makes it hard to play solo by default. I never said anything about EVE not being soloable, but it is going to be more challenging if that's how you choose to play it. I play SWTOR, and the majority of that can be solo'd because it is every MMO. But EVE is not. That's my point. The nature of EVE is teamwork will always get you further than trying to go it alone.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
422
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Posted - 2015.07.13 01:12:48 -
[24] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:
The foundation of every MMO is solo play.
The first misconception that leads to almost every other misconception about EVE Online - EVE is not every MMO. It is unique. It is, first and above all else, a PVP game. It was designed from the outset as one, has always been intended as one, and makes no bones about being anything but a PVP game. That is the whole reason PVE is so generic and repetitive, but also, even that which appears to be PVE is still PVP by virtue of it all taking place on a single-shard player-driven environment. Deny it, hate it, whatever, that's what EVE is, and what it was designed to be. The sooner you realise and accept this, the sooner you can figure out how to enjoy yourself playing it, no matter how you choose to do so. PVP and solo are not at odds. But the nature of EVE makes it hard to play solo by default. I never said anything about EVE not being soloable, but it is going to be more challenging if that's how you choose to play it. I play SWTOR, and the majority of that can be solo'd because it is every MMO. But EVE is not. That's my point. The nature of EVE is teamwork will always get you further than trying to go it alone.
Yeah I played SWTOR solo all the way to the end. Fun times. I even did a ton of flashpoints solo before I knew it couldn't done. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2338
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Posted - 2015.07.13 01:42:37 -
[25] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.
Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me. I thought you enjoyed your time in BARES I did enjoy my time in BARES but I am not a miner / industrialist. The guy who runs it is great though.
then you are not a solo player. i don;t think you understand what a solo player actually is in terms of eve
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Jacques d'Orleans
The Scope Gallente Federation
148
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Posted - 2015.07.13 01:55:46 -
[26] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote: You are correct. I would rather play a single player space game but there wasn't one available.
X3: Terran conflict, X3: Albion Prelude. I'm not sure about Elite: Dangerous, but afaik it also has a solo mode.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1862
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Posted - 2015.07.13 01:58:31 -
[27] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:... Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me. Crazy people talking to the AI and thinking they hear them talk back. Are your enemies on your teamspeak server too? I am a figment of imagination, typing in your head. Why do you insist we exist?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Renegade Heart
Carebear Miners R Us
439
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Posted - 2015.07.13 02:12:28 -
[28] - Quote
DaReaper wrote: You can chose to play it like a solo game, but you will have more fun, based on CCP's own statistics, if you join a corp then if you play alone.
Based on my own experience, after 4 years in the game, and having been in multiple corps, I have to disagree with you on this point. It took me a while but I realised that I enjoy this game way more playing solo. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8748
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Posted - 2015.07.13 02:23:14 -
[29] - Quote
I have a corp with four of my own characters in it.
Sometimes I make them talk to each other in corp chat. So, am I a multiplayer or a solo player? Or just off the deep end?
As to the topic at hand. Play how you want. If it doesn't work out, don't force yourself to play as these forum Gurus tell you to. Find another game that suit you better. As for the multi in MMO that keeps being misused, it means lots of people on the same server. It does not mean you have to talk to them or interact with them beyond blowing up their ships occasionally. Solo and multi fit just fine together.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Renegade Heart
Carebear Miners R Us
439
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Posted - 2015.07.13 02:27:52 -
[30] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Sometimes I make them talk to each other in corp chat. So, am I a multiplayer or a solo player? Or just off the deep end?
It you were using them for multibox PvP, then you might get trolled by an elitist solo PvP'er telling you that you aren't really solo. But that would just be them trying to troll you because you didn't give them a fair fight
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