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Jenshae Chiroptera
1902
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Posted - 2015.07.15 10:20:10 -
[1] - Quote
As much as I would love a mining revamp and a whole list of other things, I believe that team missions are what would help EVE the most.
Constructed correctly, there would be: - Mechanics that require more than one player, e.g. two items that need to be hacked at the same time in a limited time or a new wave of AI appears with a new trick on each failure - Enough reward to tempt new players into them but not enough for them to be farmed day in and day out. - A limit on ship types through the jump gates. - Careful testing on possible tanks and damage so that logistics are required. - AI that would be affected by all types of e-war - A range of difficulties from T1 frigates and upward. - Solid integration with a tutorial system, giving some explanation on what and why things are needed.
... and I am sure you see where this is leading.
1) People learning to work in teams with good compositions, the game teaching them some very basic PVP skills. 2) People having an incentive to reach out and get to know each other, form groups, corps and alliances that can grow.
Social spider webs are what really glue players to this game and I think team missions are the best way to wrap them in those sticky threads, early.
Please, CCP, pave the way ready for some focused target marketing to find fertile ground.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I
1011
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Posted - 2015.07.15 10:23:33 -
[2] - Quote
you mean like lvl 5's and incursions?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
8
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Posted - 2015.07.15 10:25:01 -
[3] - Quote
If mission runners were looking for teamwork and interaction they'd have chosen a different path. Not saying I'm against the idea as such, it's a good idea, but realistically it's not going to change anything at all unless they make all lvl 4 missions that way so that lvl 3 becomes the default solo option and lvl 4 is effectively forced teamwork. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1902
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Posted - 2015.07.15 10:25:10 -
[4] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:you mean like lvl 5's and incursions? Notice, how those aren't accessible to new players and that is the focus of this thread.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I
1011
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Posted - 2015.07.15 10:27:39 -
[5] - Quote
pve doesnt have a restriction to only 1 player so nothing stopping people from fleeting up to do pve regardless of the age, people just dont want to.
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1903
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Posted - 2015.07.15 10:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:pve doesnt have a restriction to only 1 player so nothing stopping people from fleeting up to do pve regardless of the age, people just dont want to You haven't explained fleets and the fleet window to enough new(ish) players. Also, there is a lot of min-maxing and no requirement in current level 1-4 missions for people to team up, it is more profitable to fly solo. Ergo, the mission designs are not suitable. (Note, I do want the current missions to remain as they are. Solo should be a viable option but so should team play from day one.)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
767
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Posted - 2015.07.15 10:35:18 -
[7] - Quote
I like it.
I immediately thought about lvl5's and incursions as well, but saw your reply and I agree they're not really suited for n00bies. Another point would be the alt thing. Im not against it at all, but most use that ability to "solo-team" things, so a new concept would need mechanics preventing it. The simultaneous hacking within a time frame is a good one.
At he moment you can always team up for lvl4's for example, so it needs to be a bit different from that as well.
My only concern is it replacing current content. That would be a shame imo. I'd prefer this kind of thing as another option. That way we can also collect some forum tears from solodudes feeling "left out" every now and then.
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Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
945
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Posted - 2015.07.15 10:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Removing battleships from lvl4s would be a great start. Make the PvE progression less easymode and missions sufficiently random so people can not turn them into even easier easymode again. Getting rid of the lazy asses in favour of people who do not want success to be breastfed to them should be top priority. I can't type today.....4
TSHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
907
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Posted - 2015.07.15 10:58:24 -
[9] - Quote
There is already new group content for explorers. Beside some niche activities, PvE in EvE is there to make ISK, not to learn something, IMO. Maybe Dagan can be promoted to be an actual threat or you can add some more tough NPCs into the mission arcs, but this won't replace the training through real PvP encounters (also there is always SiSi). Group PvE if it's not for ISK is a waste of playtime, IMO.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
3067
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Posted - 2015.07.15 12:16:49 -
[10] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Removing battleships from lvl4s would be a great start. Make the PvE progression less easymode and missions sufficiently random so people can not turn them into even easier easymode again. Getting rid of the lazy asses in favour of people who do not want success to be breastfed to them should be top priority. I can't type today.....4
Sorry to burst your bubble but banning my shiny BSs from L4s wouldn't make me team up with anybody, it would make me drop running L4s. And I believe I am not alone in this way of thinking.
I run L4s for easy ISK. I won't wh0re myself in FW plexes because I despise implementation of FW, I won't wait in line for fleet invite to run incursions (and they require moving places which I don't want to do), L5s and wormholes... meh, too much hassle for PVE, better use lowsec for pvp and w-space for quick travels and sightseeing.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
352
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Posted - 2015.07.15 12:35:01 -
[11] - Quote
Personally I would much rather have more burner type missions, but instead of the NPCs being the same every time they are random within ship classes, and they are fit randomly with pvp weaponry.
Imagine having to go into a fight with an NPC where you had to scram them, and worry about whether they are SDing or Webbing or Neuting, and having no idea if that Vagabond Angel you are fighting is short or long range... That would be awesome.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Fugly Isktaker
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.07.15 12:56:46 -
[12] - Quote
"Personally I've played this game for a long time now and have lost all perspective of what it might be like for a new player so don't want it."
...why is this such a rampant opinion? I think some more level 1-4 missions which REQUIRE teamwork to accomplish would be fantastic. Or perhaps a set of epic arc missions which have minimum fleet requirements...:D |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1927
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Posted - 2015.07.15 13:51:19 -
[13] - Quote
Fugly Isktaker wrote:... or perhaps a set of epic arc missions which have minimum fleet requirements... Epic Arcs aren't reused enough to devote developer time to them. We need more solutions that keep new players over an extended time and help shoe horn them into playing the game such that they don't get slaughtered a few times and spend the rest of their game time avoiding fights until they quit.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
89
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Posted - 2015.07.15 13:58:46 -
[14] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:You haven't explained fleets and the fleet window to enough new(ish) players. Also, there is a lot of min-maxing and no requirement in current level 1-4 missions for people to team up, it is more profitable to fly solo. Ergo, the mission designs are not suitable. (Note, I do want the current missions to remain as they are. Solo should be a viable option but so should team play from day one.)
There should NEVER be a requirement imposed by the game to team up or not. If you want more group content, grab some friends, start a corp and start doing content as a group.
If you want group content, then...group up. Jump into a WH (newer players could easily fleet up to take on lower level WHs), risk ratting in low sec with a few fleet members in combat fits for protection, etc.
The game has plenty of low level group content as it is, you just have to find it for yourself instead of asking CCP to make it for you. Sandbox and all. |
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
3068
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Posted - 2015.07.15 14:33:01 -
[15] - Quote
Instead of forcing teaming up they should get rid of stupid requirement to dock in order to request and finish missions (with exceptions of course when mission requires picking up or dropping an item).
Second thing: sharing mission location. Make it so I could drag mission icon or whatever to chat and everybody who clicks it can warp to mission. With being able to get/finish missions in space and easy sharing mission location everybody in fleet could pull missions, share them and whole fleet could just binge on them.
Would it boost farmers and multiboxers? Sure, but it would make life easier for "normal" players. Docking/undocking/warping to person who has a mission to be fleet warped to mission pocket - it all takes time, is mundane and frakking boring.
Get rid of boring parts and people will team up organically because there will be more fun/minute.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1930
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Posted - 2015.07.15 14:35:39 -
[16] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote: ... There should NEVER be a requirement imposed by the game to team up or not. If you want more group content, ... you just have to find it for yourself instead of asking CCP to make it for you. Sandbox and all. I can teach and co-ordinate a tiny fraction of people that a tireless, unsleeping set of mechanics can manage.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1508
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Posted - 2015.07.15 14:36:37 -
[17] - Quote
I believe the drifter wormholes have team elements (dual hacking). Also ghost sites tend to need more than 1 person to get all of the loot.
The issue tends to be trust.
this can be expanded, but unfortunately many people would rather log in an alt and dual box a team mission to get the extra reward than actually team up with someone.
It all depends on structure.
Yaay!!!!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11801
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Posted - 2015.07.15 14:39:47 -
[18] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:you mean like lvl 5's and incursions? not supported as these are all ready available
And the static COSMOS complexes. And DED complexes like the Angfel 10/10 I did last night with a buddy. And Womrholes.
It's like he's saying "EVE is dying, quick CCP, make some content that already exists in several forms in the game already, that will fix everything!".
Why do people claim to want more stuff when they don't use the stuff that they have already?
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
89
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Posted - 2015.07.15 14:42:57 -
[19] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I can teach and co-ordinate a tiny fraction of people that a tireless, unsleeping set of mechanics can manage. (What is with all this "forcing" nonsense? It would be a parallel system done right.)
But that logic is dangerous. Following that logic, we should have PvP arenas that you can queue for, because why co-ordinate fleets and roams if a set of mechanics can organize fights for us?
It inherently goes against the idea of a sandbox. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1931
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Posted - 2015.07.15 14:51:08 -
[20] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:It inherently goes against the idea of a sandbox. I do see your point, however, there is a huge swathe of people who are being "discarded" Those who are not being taken in by player corporations, those who join some, find they hate them and leave, avoiding player corporations from then on.
What I am envisioning is a system that enables more new players to grow into groups organically, from their T1 frigate and onward.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
90
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Posted - 2015.07.15 14:57:37 -
[21] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I do see your point, however, there is a huge swathe of people who are being "discarded" Those who are not being taken in by player corporations, those who join some, find they hate them and leave, avoiding player corporations from then on.
What I am envisioning is a system that enables more new players to grow into groups organically, from their T1 frigate and onward.
I agree completely that those type of systems are needed. That's why groups like RvB and Eve Uni exist. They fill that role. If a new player can't take a few hits and can't bounce back from a few bad experiences, they won't last in EVE long term anyway. Part of what you are describing is simply the harsh nature of EVE. Better to weed out those who won't last early on, isn't it? |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1931
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Posted - 2015.07.15 15:08:56 -
[22] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:... That's why groups like RvB and Eve Uni exist. They fill that role. ... EVE Uni is not as common knowledge as you might like to believe with new players. Red vs Blue farms new players, they use shiny ships and shiny pods to kill off the new players, there is even a rule that you can not pod each other. To a new player it is a very negative learning experience for PVP.
Those groups are also estabilished and have the human limitations. They do not really inspire new groups to form up and grow.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Lan Wang
V I R I I
1024
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Posted - 2015.07.15 15:11:20 -
[23] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Lan Wang wrote:you mean like lvl 5's and incursions? not supported as these are all ready available And the static COSMOS complexes. And DED complexes like the Angfel 10/10 I did last night with a buddy. And Womrholes. It's like he's saying "EVE is dying, quick CCP, make some content that already exists in several forms in the game already, that will fix everything!". Why do people claim to want more stuff when they don't use the stuff that they have already?
yeah im sure this was all discussed yesterday in another thread
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11803
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Posted - 2015.07.15 15:17:56 -
[24] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:... That's why groups like RvB and Eve Uni exist. They fill that role. ... EVE Uni is not as common knowledge as you might like to believe with new players. Red vs Blue farms new players, they use shiny ships and shiny pods to kill off the new players, there is even a rule that you can not pod each other. To a new player it is a very negative learning experience for PVP. Those groups are also estabilished and have the human limitations. They do not really inspire new groups to form up and grow.
Which non-human npc driven feature has ever done that? That';s the primary flaw of these kinds of ideas.
Incursions didn't teach people how to be in pvp fleets, Burner missions don't teach solo pvp, lvl 4 missions don't teach people how to fit ships for pvp etc etc. In fact, npc interaction goes counter to what you want, because while people are dual hacking some mission with some random person they probably won't see again, they may be missing a real opportunity to do something else, such as what EVE uni and others offer.
It's a matter of predisposition and self determination, nothing you do will encourage people UN-inclined to do something to do that something. Attempts to manipulate outcomes like what you propose always backfire.
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
90
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Posted - 2015.07.15 15:22:58 -
[25] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:EVE Uni is not as common knowledge as you might like to believe with new players. Red vs Blue farms new players, they use shiny ships and shiny pods to kill off the new players, there is even a rule that you can not pod each other. To a new player it is a very negative learning experience for PVP.
Those groups are also estabilished and have the human limitations. They do not really inspire new groups to form up and grow.
Where did you get the idea that RvB is a negative experience for new players? I joined RvB less than a month into the game and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I learned a ton. If someone pays attention in rookie help, asks questions, starts conversations with people who kill them, etc. they will learn a lot.
New players have to be proactive about wanting to learn. You can't force an interest in group content onto people. They have to want to learn it or they will get bored and leave, no matter what. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1931
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Posted - 2015.07.15 15:28:39 -
[26] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:... New players have to be proactive about wanting to learn. You can't force an interest in group content onto people. They have to want to learn it or they will get bored and leave, no matter what. There you go with this "force" nonsense again.
In missions, they can be pretty terrible and not be so harshly punished for it. Also there can be a scale of difficulty in each subsequent jump gate room.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
42
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Posted - 2015.07.15 15:35:55 -
[27] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Personally I would much rather have more burner type missions, but instead of the NPCs being the same every time they are random within ship classes, and they are fit randomly with pvp weaponry. Sleeper AI can't be rolled out to L1 missions fast enough.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1932
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Posted - 2015.07.15 15:39:12 -
[28] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:Sleeper AI can't be rolled out to L1 missions fast enough. Why just the AI? Throw a whole C6 site into a random L1 site time to time, with the same ship restrictions.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
491
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Posted - 2015.07.15 15:39:50 -
[29] - Quote
See, this has the potential to be something. A big trap.
So instead of leveling their raven, two or more people will level ravens, then when all the missions have been conquered, they won't have anything to do, get bored, and quit. Maybe some of them will branch out, but if current trends are at all predictive, most will not. They learned the game in one context, they are still at square one in other regards.
I'd presume you'd want to add these to Hi Sec, which does not need more income generating activities than it already has.
The way they get more people in this game is simple - make your existing customer base happy, both with the direction the game is going in, and the game they currently have. No experience can substitute for good mentors who are enthusiastic about the game, and can show you its many facets.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1932
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Posted - 2015.07.15 15:43:26 -
[30] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:See, this has the potential to be something. A big trap. They learned the game in one context, they are still at square one in other regards. ... or they can learn about broadcasts, repairing each other, focusing fire and tackling AI before it warps away.
This creates the potential for a group to form that have some basic understanding of how to PVP and have worked out what roles they enjoy. Enabling them.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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