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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
91
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Posted - 2015.07.15 15:48:15 -
[31] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There you go with this "force" nonsense again.
In missions, they can be pretty terrible and not be so harshly punished for it. Also there can be a scale of difficulty in each subsequent jump gate room.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I am saying we shouldn't have a game mechanic managed by CCP to handle something that players can create and maintain on their own.
Hell, I wish missions as they stand now were designed and presented by players instead of by game mechanics. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
491
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Posted - 2015.07.15 15:57:14 -
[32] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:See, this has the potential to be something. A big trap. They learned the game in one context, they are still at square one in other regards. ... or they can learn about broadcasts, repairing each other, focusing fire and tackling AI before it warps away. This creates the potential for a group to form that have some basic understanding of how to PVP and have worked out what roles they enjoy. Enabling them.
Echoing numerous other people, there are plenty of learning corps/alliances with good instructors out there, who will be happy to show you so many things about this game. It has already been shown that the main difference, or at least one of the main factors in predicting if a player is going to stick around, is if they have joined a corp. So the real trick is to get new players to accept, New Eden is a very complex place; no matter who you are, the best thing you can do is spend a few months under an individual or a corp's guidance. I.E. instead of playing EvE against AI, join a corp. This is different than making a corp - the majority of new player corps, made by new players for new players, are traps; literally the blind leading the blind where information and experience aren't going to be available or accessible.
I personally started the game in a new player corp lead by a new player. That corp is now gone, everyone but me quit the game, and I would not be playing currently if I had not looked for a good player run corp. While anecdotal, it still speaks the trend - those that join established corps, stay for the long haul. Thus developer attention should be focused on getting people to try out corps, one after another, until they find their fit.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1933
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Posted - 2015.07.15 16:02:23 -
[33] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:... I personally started the game in a new player corp lead by a new player. ... I very deliberately use the word, "group" and don't harp on about newbie corps.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
92
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Posted - 2015.07.15 16:08:17 -
[34] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote: I personally started the game in a new player corp lead by a new player. That corp is now gone, everyone but me quit the game, and I would not be playing currently if I had not looked for a good player run corp. While anecdotal, it still speaks the trend - those that join established corps, stay for the long haul. Thus developer attention should be focused on getting people to try out corps, one after another, until they find their fit.
I think something that could help this is the option on character creation to choose to be put in an NPC corp right away, or to be automatically put into a player run corp. New player corps could opt-in to allow new players to automatically join them.
Obviously that idea would need to be fleshed out fairly significantly, but if out of the box you were placed in eve uni, RvB, whatever, I could see that helping new player retention. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
42
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Posted - 2015.07.15 16:25:58 -
[35] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Aerasia wrote:Sleeper AI can't be rolled out to L1 missions fast enough. Why just the AI? Throw a whole C6 site into a random L1 site time to time, with the same ship restrictions. Get CCP to build a 'sell your super-escalated mission site' system like they've got for killrights, and maybe you'll be on to something.
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
492
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Posted - 2015.07.15 16:28:39 -
[36] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Obviously that idea would need to be fleshed out fairly significantly, but if out of the box you were placed in eve uni, RvB, whatever, I could see that helping new player retention.
Eh, Its a tough nut to crack. I would hate for people to join Eve-U automatically, and it's complicated for lots of reasons too, as the game can't specifically endorse one entity over another. Joining Eve-U means you can't suicide gank or do fun stuff in Hi sec, which might just be a player's thing. You don't want to drop people into things they do not yet understand, you just want to make it easier to understand, hey, you aren't alone, there are lots of like minded individuals out there. NPSI probably opens a lot of peoples' perspectives and lets them meet people and corps they may be interested in. It has always been about the tools available to get a certain task done; just make it easier to shop corporations.
Eve was built by the players - let the players show the game to each other. At its core, the game is pretty dry, it is literally the people that make the difference, which is sorta my main beef with overpopulating new players' experiences with NPCs.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1937
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Posted - 2015.07.15 16:36:24 -
[37] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:... NPSI probably opens a lot of peoples' perspectives and lets them meet people and corps they may be interested in. ... Time to time, I talk about an in game corporation list for recuiting, finding "White Knights" and a list of mercenary corps. These could work on reputations, boosting them with points and giving them points depends on contracts or accepting their help (+ maybe other stats)
Perhaps, what could also be listed as a tab on the same sheet is common NPSI fleets. They provide an information page, of the ships required and their stage. Giving newbies a way to contact them, find them and prepare before the fleet forms up. Again, this can be tied into fleets and who joins them to push them up the list.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
94
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Posted - 2015.07.15 16:55:08 -
[38] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Eh, Its a tough nut to crack. I would hate for people to join Eve-U automatically, and it's complicated for lots of reasons too, as the game can't specifically endorse one entity over another. Joining Eve-U means you can't suicide gank or do fun stuff in Hi sec, which might just be a player's thing. You don't want to drop people into things they do not yet understand, you just want to make it easier to understand, hey, you aren't alone, there are lots of like minded individuals out there. NPSI probably opens a lot of peoples' perspectives and lets them meet people and corps they may be interested in. It has always been about the tools available to get a certain task done; just make it easier to shop corporations.
Eve was built by the players - let the players show the game to each other. At its core, the game is pretty dry, it is literally the people that make the difference, which is sorta my main beef with overpopulating new players' experiences with NPCs.
Yeah...I know it needs more thought than I have given it. I am sure there is a right way to have new players not be lumped into NPC corps, but I am really not sure how to implement it successfully right now |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1319
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Posted - 2015.07.15 17:01:30 -
[39] - Quote
I think WOW has something like that, you may as well just go there.
It's this way
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1938
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Posted - 2015.07.15 17:03:49 -
[40] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:I think WOW... is this way Are you a L337 bot?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
492
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Posted - 2015.07.15 19:22:46 -
[41] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:I think WOW has something like that, you may as well just go there. It's this way
To be fair, CODE. does a pretty good job of getting people into ganking, but the task is easier.
You make a ton of noise, so your visibility is high, and the bar for entry is two weeks training, tops. It's just much much simpler to teach people how to F1 in a catalyst than it is too teach them small gang anything. Some people want a challenge after all, not just giant targets.
I mean, I'm sure I'll see the elite skill of CODE. pilots in the alliance tournament this year, right? It's not all cheap, easy kills of people that can't possibly shoot back. With killboard rankings that high, surely you will be a top contender!
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1943
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Posted - 2015.07.15 19:26:50 -
[42] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:I think ... It's not all cheap, easy kills of people that can't possibly shoot back? I did see an endangered Code roaming gang once! (97% ISK failure!)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Khumash
Torrinos One
0
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Posted - 2015.07.15 21:53:36 -
[43] - Quote
I like the idea of co-op missions. I also like the idea of player-run corp mission givers. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1959
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Posted - 2015.07.15 23:45:30 -
[44] - Quote
Khumash wrote:I like the idea of co-op missions. I also like the idea of player-run corp mission givers. I'm guessing that the developers are passed out now, were too distracted today and this will probably go unnoticed or quickly forgotten.
C'est la vie.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1984
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Posted - 2015.07.17 12:21:04 -
[45] - Quote
*Coughs* So, umm... now that the developers aren't running around screaming and putting out fires. *Nudges this into eye sight*
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Kiddoomer
ScrewWork Inc.
76
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:06:33 -
[46] - Quote
A good idea I think, I would see something like a new category named GL1 to 4, given by different agents around high and lowsec. Which would have gates preventing too big hulls from entering (only T1 frig for the first, T1 destroyer and cruiser for the second etc). So these missions will require teamwork, with EW and logi needed, and maybe make only the last (GL4) really challenging, but requiring smaller and with less SP groupes than those running incursions or L5.
A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
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Thorn en Distel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
76
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Posted - 2015.07.17 15:09:13 -
[47] - Quote
Personally, while I will group up for PVP, I hate group PVE with a passion. Doesn't matter whether I'm new in a game or an old hand, I will avoid it like the plague. I CANNOT STAND the eternal waiting around for the group to form, the wait for group mates who suddenly find they have other things to do IRL WHILE running a group mission, who log when things get tough, who ***** about the loot division... And then of course you get the eternal arguments about specs and outfitting and speedruns. Just /barf.
I am not sure how representative I am. I do know that I'm not the only one by far. And I can't for the life of me see adding 'group content' as the way to draw in new players or revitalizing the game, especially in an older games with an entrenched veteran player base.
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1205
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Posted - 2015.07.17 15:42:11 -
[48] - Quote
When I started playing eve, I had a slicer. And access to L4s once I was done grinding L3s. So in the evening, I'd poke some other noobs and we then could run my L4s with a slicer and two rifters, until Aura told me to stop that.
It's already there, people just forget about it cause *Hurr, ISK/HOUR*. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1343
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Posted - 2015.07.17 16:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:I think WOW has something like that, you may as well just go there. It's this way To be fair, CODE. does a pretty good job of getting people into ganking, but the task is easier. You make a ton of noise, so your visibility is high, and the bar for entry is two weeks training, tops. It's just much much simpler to teach people how to F1 in a catalyst than it is too teach them small gang anything. Some people want a challenge after all, not just giant targets. I mean, I'm sure I'll see the elite skill of CODE. pilots in the alliance tournament this year, right? It's not all cheap, easy kills of people that can't possibly shoot back. With killboard rankings that high, surely you will be a top contender! Calm down miner! We already won the tournament last year, it's only fair some other teams get the chance this year while we focus on winning the real game.
Anyway, if you really like that arena pvp crap, LOL is this way
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1988
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Posted - 2015.07.17 16:37:52 -
[50] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote: We already won the tournament last year, ... I wonder, when people apply to Code, do they need to submit to brain washing along with API checks or is it a case of, "bird of a feather flock together"?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
221
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Posted - 2015.07.17 17:23:03 -
[51] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote: We already won the tournament last year, ... I wonder, when people apply to Code, do they need to submit to brain washing along with API checks or is it a case of, "bird of a feather flock together"?
You're dealing with an organization, and possibly an individual, that sees this: CODE's triumphant kill as a victory. I don't know if I fully agree with the OP, but the discussion has been far more productive than what this representative of Code is contributing. |
Memphis Baas
492
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Posted - 2015.07.17 17:34:34 -
[52] - Quote
I'd be up for more complex PVE content that requires groups, but I think one issue is that it will instantly be compared to the quality of raids in other PVE MMO's, and thus bring to everyone's attention just how outdated, crappy, and buggy EVE's PVE content and PVE AI is.
You're talking about pushing two buttons in two different rooms at the same time, as if that's the cutting edge in raiding AI; the fact is that EVE is two decades behind in user interface and NPC scripting, and there's no way having to push two buttons can even compete with other games' fully-voiced epic 60-level story arcs for each different class, with "romances" and "plot twists" and everything.
CCP can't do that, btw, I don't think anyone believes they can pull off a multi-chapter prime fiction epic story that involves 10+ main NPC characters with fully-fleshed backgrounds and personalities, and the NPC AI scripting to tell such a story through player interaction. So, what's the point of a half-assed two-button mission, when other games do offer the full themepark experience and are even free-to-play at this point. If anyone's looking for that, the games are -> that way, as it's been said already. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1988
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Posted - 2015.07.17 17:39:00 -
[53] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:... You're talking about pushing two buttons in two different rooms at the same time, as if that's the cutting edge in raiding AI;.... No. It is a very simple example. This is not a detailed Features and Ideas thread with plans and such. This is a request for the next direction of development focus. Additionally, while I see your point that people might compare it, I am not asking to have EVE compete on that level, other than mining, there is no newbie friendly 'safe' group activity where they can make friends with other new players and do things together.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Commander Spurty
Dimension Door We need wards.
1516
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Posted - 2015.07.17 18:17:16 -
[54] - Quote
Be nice if mission rats stopped Cyno'ing in and 'warped' in.
Always broken immersion somewhat for me that they are magical
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32065
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Posted - 2015.07.17 20:56:36 -
[55] - Quote
Low-level missions with a cooperation mechanic is a good idea. It gets wrecked with alts though. What kind of message does that send, too, when some missions require more than one character at a time, and there are Power of Two promotions.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1989
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Posted - 2015.07.18 01:32:54 -
[56] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:What kind of message does that send,...?. Hmmm...
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
504
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Posted - 2015.07.18 03:01:12 -
[57] - Quote
Commander Spurty wrote:Be nice if mission rats stopped Cyno'ing in and 'warped' in.
Always broken immersion somewhat for me that they are magical
Not even. Cyno'ing in would even be better than this magic hocus pocus "now there's nothing, now there's something," BS they do.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1487
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Posted - 2015.07.18 10:15:06 -
[58] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote: The way they get more people in this game is simple - make your existing customer base happy, both with the direction the game is going in, and the game they currently have.
Speaking personally, a move like this would make me happy.
The rewards offered aren't my prime motivation, so while I will run existing L4 content with others .. it's all very cookie-cutter, open conversation with an agent, check eve-survival, fit appropriate hardeners & ammo. it's all very snooze worthy.
The ultimate PvE cake recipe :- Make a base of fully randomised dynamic solo missions Top with a thick creamy layer of group content Lightly dust with rewards
Would people who ARE focused on isk/hr bother with content .. probably not Because it's not social gaming that motivates them.
Because you will probably miss the point i'm making. CCP led group content does not mean it has to lead to reward escalation over existing content. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1349
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Posted - 2015.07.18 12:02:38 -
[59] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote: We already won the tournament last year, ... I wonder, when people apply to Code, do they need to submit to brain washing along with API checks or is it a case of, "bird of a feather flock together"? It has something to do with a good sense of humor.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1338
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Posted - 2015.07.18 12:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:I believe the drifter wormholes have team elements (dual hacking). Also ghost sites tend to need more than 1 person to get all of the loot.
The issue tends to be trust.
this can be expanded, but unfortunately many people would rather log in an alt and dual box a team mission to get the extra reward than actually team up with someone.
It all depends on structure.
It's really quite simple. It is all about trust. Once upon a time, I was a simple new pilot running Level IV missions in Aunia, using my shiny new Megathron. A pilot asked for assistance in local. Me, being a social kind of guy, agreed. About four other folks, kind souls, messaged me and warned me not to fit any expensive modules on my ship. I helped him run his mission with my meta-fit Megathron. He didn't seem too thrilled about my assistance and actually warped out of the mission leaving me to fend for myself. Later, when I learned to check killboards, I learned that he was trying the "Lofty" on me. It turns out, my terrible fit just wasn't worth the effort.
When you build a game in which the first rule is "trust nobody" and the second rule is "every man for himself and Bob against all" you can hardly expect a lot of positive social experiences. The rule of thumb is that there are plenty of scum inhabiting New Eden and you always have to protect yourself against them. Even people you have flown alongside for years can take you down if the stakes are right and their mood is wrong.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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