Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 23 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24264
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 13:58:39 -
[61] - Quote
Kandu Harr wrote:1. i never said the cargo was scanned with probes, its a cargo scanner on the undock 2-3 the mach lands before the freighter has 'come out of warp'. a single pass on a scanner, they already have the sig 6. stealth bombers 7. ganker never leaves grid 9. shooting the bomber doesn't free your ship and can flipping the fallen loot is trivial.
wake up, you are smarter than that. 1: You specifically, and I quote, posted "1. combat probes at Jita undock, scan freighters for sigs and cargo" 2&3: If the freighter is warping directly to a gate then yes you are correct, a Machariel can get there first. If the freighter is warping to a safespot then it is impossible for the Machariel to get there first unless the freighter pilot is dumb enough to use a safe that has already been busted. For one simple reason, you can't scan down a safespot until there's a ship there to scan down. 6: I said that Catalysts are more common, I did not say stealth bombers weren't used 7: So why aren't you shooting the flashy red pirate in the face? 9: Did I say that it did? 10: You specifically, and once again I quote, posted "drop mtu and scoop all the loot and (blue) wrecks". Can flipping is something entirely different and no longer works the way that it used to. Looting a freighter wreck still results in a suspect flag.
I'm certainly smarter than you going by what you've posted so far.
Are you a Veers alt? He shares your misconceptions to the point that you're an almost word for word match.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1205
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 14:09:42 -
[62] - Quote
Kandu Harr wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:Kandu Harr wrote:blah blah blah Pics or you're just another damn alt liar. fair enough. i'll post them when i get home from work.
I like pictures of ponies. Pretty ponies, not the normal ones. Could you please photo shop a pretty ponie into what ever evidence you provide? |
Kandu Harr
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 14:10:32 -
[63] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I'm certainly smarter than you going by what you've posted so far.
that is quite likely. but it doesn't change a thing. tell me how to get a freighter out without ganking the machs.
the only change i asked for was to prohibit a criminally-flagged individual from boarding a ship in space, clarified to high sec. i don't see how this is so bad.
now imagine 10 such groups acting in each trade hub. how will that be good for the game? and that is where we will end up if this isn't fixed. |
Enia McCool
Mama Said Knock You Out
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 14:31:15 -
[64] - Quote
Kandu Harr wrote: tell me how to get a freighter out without ganking the machs.
Let me help you with that.
- Webs
- Not carrying 20b in your triple expanded freighter
- Using a JF with exit cyno
- Paying a ransom
- Counter bumping
- Jams
- Not carrying stupid amounts of value
- Growing a pair and shooting the flashy red guy
- Did I mention not carrying 20b in your triple expanded freighter?
Kandu Harr wrote: now imagine 10 such groups acting in each trade hub. how will that be good for the game? and that is where we will end up if this isn't fixed.
It doesn't need fixing, people need fixing. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24267
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 14:36:51 -
[65] - Quote
Kandu Harr wrote:that is quite likely. but it doesn't change a thing. tell me how to get a freighter out without ganking the machs. Friends with webs, insta-undock bookmarks, gank the Bowhead, lock up the ships the Bowhead drops so that they can't be boarded, steal the ships that the Bowhead drops and many many more . Yes I'm aware that you've already poopoo'd all of these ideas in another thread, and IMHO that shows just how truly ignorant you are of the underlying mechanics involved.
Quote:the only change i asked for was to prohibit a criminally-flagged individual from boarding a ship in space, clarified to high sec. i don't see how this is so bad. Now you need to provide a coherent argument in support of your idea, so that we can ridicule you some more
Quote:now imagine 10 such groups acting in each trade hub. how will that be good for the game? Hmmm lets see, it creates market demand for certain ships and modules, it removes isk from circulation via destruction, it might make people actually pay attention to the game, etc. etc
Quote:and that is where we will end up if this isn't fixed. It's been this way for 12 years, despite all of the gnashing of teeth, rending of hair and the lamenting of people who should be playing something else, Eve still isn't dead.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1186
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 14:39:46 -
[66] - Quote
Kandu Harr wrote:the only change i asked for was to prohibit a criminally-flagged individual from boarding a ship in space, clarified to high sec. i don't see how this is so bad. It's a straight up buff for freighter pilots/nerf for freighter gankers. You still have no provided a reason why CCP should change the game balance (and spend the development time) to favour you at the expense of another player group.
Kandu Harr wrote:now imagine 10 such groups acting in each trade hub. how will that be good for the game? and that is where we will end up if this isn't fixed. "The sky is falling..."
Nothing has changed. The bumping and re-shipping mechanics have been unchanged since Crimewatch 2.0 three years ago, actually probably much longer. Even after all the teeth-gnashing when Globby popularized it months ago, it still is basically practiced only by him and perhaps a handful of others against freighters. The fact that it is not simple to execute and trivially blocked by any resistance probably has something to do with it.
Freighter ganking is incredibly rare as an overall category of ship loss - they are statistically one of the safest ships in the game. Hyperdunking is even more rare. Honestly, a few teams hyperdunking freighters in the hubs would be an excellent source of conflict for the game and hopefully reinforce the lesson that nothing is safe in this game. Too many players treat AFK freighter hauling as a fundamental right to move things in this game. This leads to boring and complacent gameplay.
Ganking is good for the game overall. You want to nerf it, albeit in a slight and niche sort of way, for no reason other than you want increased safety for your hauler. That is not a very good reason to spend limit development resources on making the game more boring. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
660
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 14:53:11 -
[67] - Quote
This crap again? |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1206
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 14:59:32 -
[68] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:This crap again?
I don't think it's crap. I don't care enough to weigh in on either side, but....
A freighter is a capital ship not a beachball. It should act more like the former and less like the latter. |
Domino Vyse
Element Connective
185
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:09:00 -
[69] - Quote
I like turtles. |
Globby
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE.
63
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:10:13 -
[70] - Quote
Domino Vyse wrote:I like turtles.
same |
|
Martyr Oira
The Conference Elite CODE.
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:12:23 -
[71] - Quote
semi-professional content consumers complaining about elite PvP
After calling us bullies, exploiters and worse our style of playing eve must cater towards your needs? Call me gullible but i am sure that's not how it works.
As loyalanon would put it: Build a bridge and get over it.
|
Globby
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE.
63
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:13:05 -
[72] - Quote
Lol if you think highsec ganking hasn't been around for 5+ years, it's just more obvious now because of the accuracy and proliferation of killboard websites and CODE. bragging about it rather than other groups trying to keep it hush-hush to keep their strategies secret.
also hyperdunking is really hard and easily countered by having an alt with an hour of skill training, or a webber, or not being afk, or anything really. hope this helps |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24270
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:17:38 -
[73] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:This crap again? I don't think it's crap. I don't care enough to weigh in on either side, but.... A freighter is a capital ship not a beachball. It should act more like the former and less like the latter. Well if we're talking more realistic collision mechanics then gankers would be quite happy with that, a projectile (Reaper with 5MN MWD) massing 1650ish tons (Reaper = 1,157,000kg, 5MN MWD = additional mass of 500,000kg) traveling at around Mach 7 (2,500m/s) is going to transfer a sizable amount of momentum and kinetic energy to whatever it hits; which equates to a big mess.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Globby
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE.
65
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:21:22 -
[74] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:This crap again? I don't think it's crap. I don't care enough to weigh in on either side, but.... A freighter is a capital ship not a beachball. It should act more like the former and less like the latter. Well if we're talking more realistic collision mechanics then gankers would be quite happy with that, a projectile (Reaper with 5MN MWD) massing 1600 tons traveling at around Mach 7 (2500m/s) is going to transfer a sizable amount of momentum and kinetic energy to whatever it hits; which equates to a big mess.
basically it's so much energy that it basically 1 shots anything. hth |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24270
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:24:03 -
[75] - Quote
^^ pretty much this
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
660
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:35:40 -
[76] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:This crap again? I don't think it's crap. I don't care enough to weigh in on either side, but.... A freighter is a capital ship not a beachball. It should act more like the former and less like the latter.
Wait.....wait...I know this! Newton's Laws of Motion, right? |
Taunrich Kaufmann
Executive Resources Group Ltd.
23
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:52:40 -
[77] - Quote
Martyr Oira wrote:After calling us bullies, exploiters and worse our style of playing eve must cater towards your needs? Call me gullible but i am sure that's not how it works.
Not only this, OP wants CCP to change the mechanics of EVE itself, because 'muh feelings'.
CEO, Executive Resources Group Ltd.
|
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
140
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 16:05:22 -
[78] - Quote
You CODE guys aren't even trying with these alt posts anymore. CONCORD blows up your ship for attacking a criminal? A war dec is the only way you can legally shoot someone in high sec? Come on now. |
Globby
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE.
68
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 16:13:07 -
[79] - Quote
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:You CODE guys aren't even trying with these alt posts anymore. CONCORD blows up your ship for attacking a criminal? A war dec is the only way you can legally shoot someone in high sec? Come on now.
It's also illegal to kill someone in lowsec because you lose security standing. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1210
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 16:56:32 -
[80] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:This crap again? I don't think it's crap. I don't care enough to weigh in on either side, but.... A freighter is a capital ship not a beachball. It should act more like the former and less like the latter. Well if we're talking more realistic collision mechanics then gankers would be quite happy with that. A projectile (Reaper with 5MN MWD) massing 1,650ish tonnes (Reaper = 1,157,000kg, 5MN MWD = additional mass of 500,000kg) traveling at around Mach 7 (2,500m/s) is going to transfer a sizable amount of momentum and kinetic energy to whatever it hits; which equates to a big mess.
I don't want realistic collisions. If I did want more realistic collisions I would have said something like "I want more realistic collisions"
It's cute that you took the liberty of extrapalating something I didn't say into something that would totally break the game and then imply I'm dumb because of your bad idea. I see one of your rabid supporters actually fell for it.
All the faux math was a nice touch. X times Y time Z was fine, but when you ended with 'equates to a big mess' your argument lost most of its precision. (I was going to say lost most of it's impact, but I'm thinking that would be wasted on you)
I'll give some more flesh to the beachball skeleton.
Empty Freighter = Beach Ball Freighter full of tritanium = Brick that a mach will bounce off of w/ little effect Freighter 1/2 goods and 1/2 tritanium = something between a beach ball and a brick
Freighter pilots would have the option of trading out half of their cargo space for some heavy bulk commodity. Doing this would lessen their bumpability and lessen their top speed and their warp speed. Rough math analogy would be twice as safe (against bumping) and half as fast at travelling. Cut align time in half. |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24280
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 17:06:23 -
[81] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I don't want realistic collisions. If I did want more realistic collisions I would have said something like "I want more realistic collisions" It was a hypothetical scenario based on what has been asked for many times in the past using a statement very similar to the one you made.
Quote:It's cute that you took the liberty of extrapalating something I didn't say into something that would totally break the game and then imply I'm dumb because of your bad idea. I see one of your rabid supporters actually fell for it. I never implied that you were dumb, or that my idea was anything other than bad. As for my rabid supporter? He merely distilled my hypothetical scenario into a simple statement.
FYI I am what many people in the C&P forum consider to be prey, the only difference between me and their victims is that for the most part I'm not stupid enough to get caught.
Quote:All the faux math was a nice touch. X times Y time Z was fine, but when you ended with 'equates to a big mess' your argument lost most of its precision. (I was going to say lost most of it's impact, but I'm thinking that would be wasted on you) You thought wrong, if you'd have said that I'd have lol'd and possibly given you a like for the pun.
Quote:I'll give some more flesh to the beachball skeleton.
Empty Freighter = Beach Ball Freighter full of tritanium = Brick that a mach will bounce off of w/ little effect Freighter 1/2 goods and 1/2 tritanium = something between a beach ball and a brick
Freighter pilots would have the option of trading out half of their cargo space for some heavy bulk commodity. Doing this would lessen their bumpability and lessen their top speed and their warp speed. Rough math analogy would be twice as safe (against bumping) and half as fast at travelling. Cut align time in half. Alternatively they could bring friends with webs that allow them to get into warp faster. Why introduce additional mechanics to do what can already be done?
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1210
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 17:31:26 -
[82] - Quote
I agree with the friends part. There are so many things you can do to not be ganked.
I'm only speaking to the beachball characteristics of freighters (and other capitals) being dumb. I've pounded more than 1 freighter off a gate w/ my trusty enyo back in the day. It's funny as all get out, but it's still kind of dumb. I'm no proponent of applying reality to the game. I'm just saying that capital ships shouldn't act like beach balls.
As to my idea, I was doing my best to describe a higgs rig w/out saying higgs rig. I guess it didn't translate as well as I thought.
|
Globby
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE.
68
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 18:00:07 -
[83] - Quote
ganking is in a good place. only idiots get ganked, and there are a lot of idiots |
Geyene
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 18:20:28 -
[84] - Quote
Sounds like you want to take the thing that makes EVE interesting, fun and dangerous and basically scrap it and make EVE like all the other MMOs I don't play because they don't have that thing.
There are tons of games out there where non-aggression is enforced arbitrarily through the game mechanics rather than a choice / consequence model like CONCORD. You are free to play any of those games. Leave this one the way it is.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
If you have a big enough hammer, every problem is a nail.
|
Globby
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE.
71
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 19:41:25 -
[85] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I agree with the friends part. There are so many things you can do to not be ganked.
I'm only speaking to the beachball characteristics of freighters (and other capitals) being dumb. I've pounded more than 1 freighter off a gate w/ my trusty enyo back in the day. It's funny as all get out, but it's still kind of dumb. I'm no proponent of applying reality to the game. I'm just saying that capital ships shouldn't act like beach balls.
As to my idea, I was doing my best to describe a higgs rig w/out saying higgs rig. I guess it didn't translate as well as I thought.
lol you cant bump a freighter with an enyo |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
The Scope Gallente Federation
1855
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 20:14:34 -
[86] - Quote
Kandu Harr wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Kandu Harr wrote:player with a criminal timer should not be able to board a ship in space. otherwise I don't see an issue with the whole thing. op is wrong.
thats really silly, as silly as miners not being able to warp back to a belt once they have left it 1. combat probes at Jita undock, scan freighters for sigs and cargo 2. let freighter warp to safe bookmark, or gate 3. neutral machariel lands before freighter has come out of warp 4. bump, until 2nd neutral machariel lands to help manage the freighter and keep in range 5. neutral bowhead lands full of stealth bombers 6. ganker lands and begins smashing the freighter 7. throwaway neutral alt draws concord to distant station 8. bowhead drops bomber, ganker boards and continues smashing 9. repeat until freighter dies. ganker never leaves grid. 10. drop mtu and scoop all the loot and (blue) wrecks Globby doesn't want you to know how easy and profitable this is, so he removed his API from the killboards. Watch the killboards. This is not at all the hyperdunking discussion ccp falcon talked about. CCP Falcon wrote:This involves leaving a grid where a criminal action occurs to draw away CONCORD and reshipping to continue shooting at a target. not anymore. player with a criminal timer should not be able to board a ship in space, in high sec then. all of it is ok, but remove #8. it is now broken. Please explain the issue with hyperdunking. It is the easiest form of ganking to stop, you literally can board and run off with the ganker's ships.
Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
|
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
100
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 04:05:30 -
[87] - Quote
Tldr
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen."(Zitat eines Singles)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind."(Zitat von einem, dem es egal ist)
|
Super Perforator
New Order Logistics CODE.
68
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 04:21:06 -
[88] - Quote
That sure is a lot of words.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5610165#post5610165
Praise James!
CODE. Diplo
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1223
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 11:06:53 -
[89] - Quote
Globby wrote:ganking is in an OK place. only idiots gank full time as their eve playstyle , and there are a lot of idiots
I corrected a few typos for you. (your welcome) |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1223
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 11:32:36 -
[90] - Quote
Globby wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:I agree with the friends part. There are so many things you can do to not be ganked.
I'm only speaking to the beachball characteristics of freighters (and other capitals) being dumb. I've pounded more than 1 freighter off a gate w/ my trusty enyo back in the day. It's funny as all get out, but it's still kind of dumb. I'm no proponent of applying reality to the game. I'm just saying that capital ships shouldn't act like beach balls.
As to my idea, I was doing my best to describe a higgs rig w/out saying higgs rig. I guess it didn't translate as well as I thought.
lol you cant bump a freighter with an enyo
I can and have done it several times back in the day. The difference between what I did and what you do is pretty large. I didn't have to bump it off grid to gank it. I just had to bump it enough to keep it from jumping through a gate while I kept it pointed. I've never suicide ganked freighters - I've only taken them down as war targets.
What you do and what I've done are similar, but different. I'd like to be clear here. I admire what you guys do. It takes skill, planning and effort. That doesn't mean I think it's good for the game. We'll have to agree to disagree on that. It's a tough subject to weigh in on. No one should get a free pass doing anything in eve. I truely believe that.
On the other hand if the only way to get goods from A to B in a frieghter is to fit it for max tank instead of max cargo, limit the amount of value in the hold and 2 or 3 other things - then something is out of balance.
Here's my feelings on it. There is no way in hell a gang of cats or bombers should be able to routinely take down a capital ship in empire under concords nose. 100 mil in t1 scrub ships shouldn't be able to do that every time. Should a gang of 10 BS be able to trade for a freighter that is just too good to pass up? - heck yeah. The math is just off. I'll say that an underlying problem is with the concord AI. They 3 volley every ship that crosses the line. That could use a tweak. If a concord response fleet can cut through my gank mega in 3 vollies then they should be able to alpha a catalyst. I've gotten a 3rd volley off w/ 1400 arty during ganks. If it's too much work on the AI to alpha things, then tweek the lock times and how soon concord puts a jam on smaller ships.
CCP just needs to balance out a few things. I'm really not a fan of a hard -10 player being able to warp around HS all day in a properly fit ship. That's also tough. I think it's OK for a -10 guy to get to jita, grab an implant or what ever and make a run back to LS. Spending all day trading thrashers for pods is not ok (again - my opinion).
Keep in mind none of this is butthurt show me on the doll crap. We're discussing game balance as it relates to suicide ganking - so I'm giving my opinion as a gal that laughs when she gets ganked and occaisionally ganks folks.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 23 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |