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Neuntausend
Rens Nursing Home
219
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Posted - 2015.07.17 10:52:06 -
[31] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:So no, you're pretty much wrong with lots of evidence against you.
Ok, I'm willing to consider this possibility, although I don't see the evidence at this point.
However - You have to get something out of the "work" for it to be "fullfilling" - If pretty much everyone can do everything in a system, without the owner even getting notified - what does one get out of holding Sov? Can you explain that? |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
1003
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Posted - 2015.07.17 11:03:01 -
[32] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:So no, you're pretty much wrong with lots of evidence against you. Ok, I'm willing to consider this possibility, although I don't see the evidence at this point. However - You have to get something out of the "work" for it to be "fullfilling" - If pretty much everyone can do everything in a system, without the owner even getting notified - what does one get out of holding Sov? Can you explain that? That was a general statement. Every CEO in a properly sized corp will tell you that there os lots of work to be done to keep the corp alive and you really have to know yourself how satisfying hard work can be to appreciate it. That no one can tell you in words. It's much better to follow a goal than to live only for quick fixes of fun, like an addict.
What the sov owners get? Lots of ISK and they can have their own space. I never was a fan of null, so I'm the wrong person to ask. My impression of being in a sov alliance tells me that line members are worthless meatshields and workers who need to be entertained so they keep staying mptivated and in line. People get easy instant gratification through pings that make them log in and they have an abundance of money making opportunities. Not to forget the roams for hostiles.
Though as I said, it was a general statement. FUN is for peasants. Ask the CEO of Pro Synergy (assuming it's still running). He was working his ass off to create a huge noobcorp that works. He has no fun, but he most likely loves what he's doing because it's for a higher goal he set himself.
And if you actually live in the space you own it will not be too much to ask for a few people out of thousands to check moons regularly. Use the proper perspectives when you think about it. People need to work for what they want to keep.
"Even if I am the best battleship pilot ever to have played eve and funded by the richest alliance how long will it take before I can fly one from 0sp? Months? Years?" - Eleygen I'cey, instant gratification addict and proud of not making any sense.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6380
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Posted - 2015.07.17 11:05:07 -
[33] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Rat Scout wrote:Patrol your system if you don't want people coming in there. You realise EVE is a game right? Designed for entertainment. There's nothing entertaining about flying around looking for towers, which is why if this change is here to stay, most people will just anchor small towers and be notified when they get attacked. The real question is how will it work in the new POS system when you can put up a POS anywhere you want. Seems to me there's becoming less point in holding the actual named sov on a system, since you can effectively own it without that. No, EVE is not designed for entertainment. See post above. If it was, it wouldn't be what it is. You just parrot the nonsense of instant gratification idiots. Ask your corp and alliance leaders how much fun all the necessary work is to keep things running. FUN is for peasants with no higher goals. You peasant. LOL, yes it is. It's a video game, it's not a career choice. Yes some people opt to put a lot of effort in and they enjoy the results of doing that, and it's still entertainment. Anyone that is playing this game while not enjoying it I sincerely pity, since they've obviously missed the point of games. You I pity anyway, since it seems hovering around the forums spewing hate on your little alt is the best you can get. You're the epitome of what is wrong with the EVE community.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
252
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Posted - 2015.07.17 11:10:42 -
[34] - Quote
You nullsec people have problems... in w-space you never got a notification when someone "pooped" a tower into your system. |
Neuntausend
Rens Nursing Home
219
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Posted - 2015.07.17 11:21:37 -
[35] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:What the sov owners get? Lots of ISK and they can have their own space.
The point I am trying to make is, that they don't. Anyone can grab a moneymoon, provided he has the military power to do it. No sov needed. Anyone can create ratting- or mining income in 0.0 - again: No sov needed. If one "owns" something, he can decide what happens to it. At this point, the sov system doesn't help with that - having sov only puts a flag on a system, but that doesn't mean one owns it. Of course, sov owners can prevent others from using the space through other means, but someone not owning sov can do that just as well.
Right now it seems, that sov is supposed to be an end in itself - for the rest of the game it doesn't really matter if one holds sov or not. PL seems to have gotten that a long time ago, NC. caught on to it recently as well. But for most people, working just for works sake just doesn't cut it. If self-flagellation is your thing, all the power to you, but I think you don't need Eve online to do that either. |
Neuntausend
Rens Nursing Home
219
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Posted - 2015.07.17 11:23:44 -
[36] - Quote
Jack Hayson wrote:You nullsec people have problems... in w-space you never got a notification when someone "pooped" a tower into your system.
In a wormhole system you don't put up Ihubs and TCUs and fight needlessly long-winded and complicated sov battles either. That's the whole point I am making - the whole Sov system is work- and resource-heavy, and needs to have benefits, or it is utterly pointless. Getting a message when a random bum puts up a tent in your yard is one of those benefits. |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
1003
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Posted - 2015.07.17 11:25:52 -
[37] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:What the sov owners get? Lots of ISK and they can have their own space. The point I am trying to make is, that they don't. Anyone can grab a moneymoon, provided he has the military power to do it. No sov needed. Anyone can create ratting- or mining income in 0.0 - again: No sov needed. If one "owns" something, he can decide what happens to it. At this point, the sov system doesn't help with that - having sov only puts a flag on a system, but that doesn't mean one owns it. Of course, sov owners can prevent others from using the space through other means, but someone not owning sov can do that just as well. Right now it seems, that sov is supposed to be an end in itself - for the rest of the game it doesn't really matter if one holds sov or not. PL seems to have gotten that a long time ago, NC. caught on to it recently as well. But for most people, working just for works sake just doesn't cut it. If self-flagellation is your thing, all the power to you, but I think you don't need Eve online to do that either. But it does. Sov means more money, which means things like SRP and Burn ThatPlace. You need to ask someone who isn't a line-member about this, so asking here will not really give you a proper answer, because the forums are filled with peasants.
If you want to know why people deem it worth it, ask directors or leaders. They are the only ones who can give you proper perspectives about it. If sov wasn't worth it, no one would take it,
And I really like the WH comment above. Put that into perspective. There's hundreds of people in sov alliances, yet people can't bother looking for towers? WH groups are much smaller, they don't get to know either, yet they seem to be doing fine!
A tower notification seems easymode to me.
"Even if I am the best battleship pilot ever to have played eve and funded by the richest alliance how long will it take before I can fly one from 0sp? Months? Years?" - Eleygen I'cey, instant gratification addict and proud of not making any sense.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16720
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Posted - 2015.07.17 11:37:08 -
[38] - Quote
Good change, years overdue.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Wollari
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
79
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Posted - 2015.07.17 11:59:02 -
[39] - Quote
I guess that was needed due to a game mechanic change.
With the new system you can own a station and get the benefits of an ihub's system indizes while not having the need to hold a tcu. The TCU's only purpose is to put up a flag and lower the pos fuel costs.
So which structure should be tied to pos notification system? TCU? IHUB? Station? all? only one?
For a long time posses have only 2 use cases ... logistic ones (staging point, safe spot, home) or industrial one (mining, building).
While it's bad for a sov holder to not knowing what somebody else is preparing (building a staging point for upcoming attacks) I like the idea of adding some fog-of-war again. While the sovereignty/campaign system is now completely public (ingame and via CREST) there should be other things in game that could provide some kind of surprise element.
In the upcoming month the sovereignty world and the way how the game is played will change dramatically. It's easy for an attacker to reinforce a structure (maybe for 60-90 minute on ADM 6) and then later watching the defender to work 1h+ to secure 10+ command nodes while the aggressor can watch, laugh and pick up the people trying to solo those nodes. And for this you don't even need staging posses ... you just have a cloaky guy watching him.
In this scenario, the notifications about new posses becomes irrelevant cause you've bigger problems. Only if you start living in a system or constellation you start caring about posses and moon goo. And with the new sov mechanic it's getting more unlike to hold and keep unrelevant systems you must maintain and secure. Every system that is not actively and has a low indexes will be a target for roaming gangs just to produce work for the owners ... and that's more work then somebodies POS that produces usually more work for the maintainer then the space holder.
anyway ... +1 for this removal
DOTLAN EveMaps-á| Your out-of-game map, navigation toolset, sov database, etc. since 2008
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Hipqo
Project AIice Whatever.
139
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:02:49 -
[40] - Quote
Aegis 1.3 patch
Fixes: Gameplay:
- The owners of a Territorial Claim Unit will receive notifications again when a new control tower is anchored in their system.
So it was a bug, not an intended feature.
A life is best lived, to not step into your grave in a well preserved body. Instead, to slide in side ways, all battered and bruised, screamming, "Holy SH**! What a ride!"
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Jeanne Tivianne
65
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:15:21 -
[41] - Quote
Hipqo wrote:Aegis 1.3 patch Fixes: Gameplay:
- The owners of a Territorial Claim Unit will receive notifications again when a new control tower is anchored in their system.
So it was a bug, not an intended feature.
That's a shame. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
337
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:32:02 -
[42] - Quote
Jeanne Tivianne wrote:Hipqo wrote:Aegis 1.3 patch Fixes: Gameplay:
- The owners of a Territorial Claim Unit will receive notifications again when a new control tower is anchored in their system.
So it was a bug, not an intended feature. That's a shame.
hahaha........told ya so! |
Jeanne Tivianne
66
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:46:22 -
[43] - Quote
One can dream. |
Bubba Ovaert
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.07.17 14:00:32 -
[44] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:You are right. It's much better when people poop into your car.
What's the benefit to holding Sov again?
If there no benefit, why aren't major entities dropping sov like PL? |
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp Chao3 Alliance
272
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Posted - 2015.07.17 14:34:34 -
[45] - Quote
Hipqo wrote:Aegis 1.3 patch Fixes: Gameplay:
- The owners of a Territorial Claim Unit will receive notifications again when a new control tower is anchored in their system.
So it was a bug, not an intended feature.
This was quick to get fixed then. It is not like identifying siphons through API data that is also a bug, but never got fixed.
The Null Sec CSM members must have been breathing hard on CCP's neck on that one. Talk about double standard!
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
964
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Posted - 2015.07.17 14:36:35 -
[46] - Quote
I was hoping that it was deliberate but thought it was a bug, I am sad to be proven right and it was a bug. Damn crying shame...
Ella's Snack bar
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Wasilah
Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn
2
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Posted - 2015.07.18 00:52:07 -
[47] - Quote
Saisin wrote:It is not like identifying siphons through API data that is also a bug, but never got fixed.
The Null Sec CSM members must have been breathing hard on CCP's neck on that one. Talk about double standard!
even before they added them to the game they planned it that way. They left the ability to see it happening via API in on purpose because there is still an advantage to someone that checks their towers more often than the API runs a check. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
872
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Posted - 2015.07.18 01:48:05 -
[48] - Quote
Trigger warnings? |
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp Chao3 Alliance
273
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Posted - 2015.07.18 02:27:26 -
[49] - Quote
Wasilah wrote: even before they added them to the game they planned it that way. They left the ability to see it happening via API in on purpose because there is still an advantage to someone that checks their towers more often than the API runs a check.
You are wrong. This was clearly stated by CCP here.
If you are interested to know more about the CSM's influence at the time on the release of siphons, I would recommend a read of this post.
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2320
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Posted - 2015.07.18 02:38:38 -
[50] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:I just like to play the real-life comparison game. It's stupid, but fun. Besides - Random people putting a POS into my home system is pretty much like pooping on the backseat of my car - something I really do not want to happen.
Bottom line is: Neutrals (or enemies) putting up structures in the space one supposedly owns is something, space owners consider to be a bad thing. The supposed system owners not even being notified, when some random dude puts down a tower is another one of those things where it really doesn't seem to matter if people hold sov or not, begging the question: Why bother?
Do we even need a sov system anymore? Sov grants you many benefits. You can own stations, upgrade your systems, use jump bridges, have deployables that'll decloak or allow you to find cloaked players and more things that'll be added in game just for Sov owners.
If there's an empty moon you don't want people using then anchor a small tower on it so it can't be used. Problem solved. In a sandbox game if a problem can be solved by players then it should be left by players to solve. That creates emergent content.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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