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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Prolapse.
2608
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Posted - 2015.07.22 07:16:05 -
[1] - Quote
So, why is it that logi goes suspect doing its job in highsec, but you can sit on a gate with a frigate providing remote sensor boosters to whoever, and/or Projected ECCMs, and it's perfectly kosher as far as the Crimewatch is concerned?
Yes, instalocking Phobos camps in highsec, i'm looking at you and your fluffer alts.
My porposal: any remotely-cast buff causes a suspect level offence, just like RRs.
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
242
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Posted - 2015.07.22 07:23:54 -
[2] - Quote
At the time the effect is applied, is the target under a Suspect Flag?
When camping, the answer should be no. Once the target engages, then it should be possible to get a flag... but setting safety to green should prevent the module cycling again.
In the case of re-sebos, everything should be functioning as intended. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2298
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 07:32:38 -
[3] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:At the time the effect is applied, is the target under a Suspect Flag?
When camping, the answer should be no. Once the target engages, then it should be possible to get a flag... but setting safety to green should prevent the module cycling again.
In the case of re-sebos, everything should be functioning as intended.
Assuming they have a green safety. It should be possible for hilarious condokkens to happen because people forgot to set their safety correctly though and were remote boosting a ganker. And it will make a significant difference in the use of neutral alts in high sec wars also.
Any TARGETED remote effect should follow the same rules, caps for emphasis so this only stays under modules which the user has control over the recipient directly. |
wopolusa
Dire Circumstances
22
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Posted - 2015.07.22 07:32:43 -
[4] - Quote
I really don't know why every and any case of assistance whatsoever to a suspect or war target doesn't trigger a suspect timer or limited engagement timer respectively.
As said above though, problem with remote sebo's is the benefits are used before the ship receiving the benefits is flagged suspected(during lock). and that cannot be changed. |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad
Circle-Of-Two
98
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Posted - 2015.07.23 05:46:16 -
[5] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:At the time the effect is applied, is the target under a Suspect Flag?
When camping, the answer should be no. Once the target engages, then it should be possible to get a flag... but setting safety to green should prevent the module cycling again.
In the case of re-sebos, everything should be functioning as intended.
No, i think to use Remote Boosting (equal if it-¦s sensor boosting) you should have to set your point to red like the smartbombs. You only can activate them with a red point even if you would only hit a valid target.
The problem with such boosting alts is that they are part of any criminal activity that the boosted char does. I can-¦t understandy why they stayed unharmed.
+1 |
James Baboli
The.Primary..
1021
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Posted - 2015.07.23 08:13:51 -
[6] - Quote
Lets see. This hurts incursions and likely doesn't actually deter people much, as you can put 5 resebos on a t1 frigate for practically nothing, as you would get the lovely yellow timer for remote assistence, yes? so now you dock up 5 minutes, and nothing else changes.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Khan Wrenth
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
185
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Posted - 2015.07.23 11:34:53 -
[7] - Quote
I have a feeling that I may have had a hand in causing this thread.
When I assist some friends of mine with remote sebos and remote tracking enhancers, even though I know their intent is to gank something undocking or coming through a gate, the act of assistance in itself is not criminal because they haven't done anything yet. And this game does not, will not, and should never punish you for things you might do. So they get to sit on the undock all day until they open fire on a hauler and the game won't punish them ever for locking and scanning haulers. And I can remote sebo him all day long because I'm graciously helping a friend with lock speed who is doing nothing wrong.
It's no different than any remote assistance to any ship that might be participating in PvE. The game makes no distinctions and no predictions about his behavior. When he does something criminal, things change then. But if your modules automatically shut off, then you're not assisting a criminal and you shouldn't be punished. If you did make it so assistance granted automatic flags, that'd be imminently exploitable in a whole different fashion and that is a can of worms you do not want to open.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1918
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Posted - 2015.07.23 12:56:30 -
[8] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:So, why is it that logi goes suspect doing its job in highsec, but you can sit on a gate with a frigate providing remote sensor boosters to whoever, and/or Projected ECCMs, and it's perfectly kosher as far as the Crimewatch is concerned?
Yes, instalocking Phobos camps in highsec, i'm looking at you and your fluffer alts.
My porposal: any remotely-cast buff causes a suspect level offence, just like RRs.
The whole point of Logi support is to have the logi assist another ship after that ship is engaged in combat. If it does so, it gets flagged.
But with ReSeBos (assuming they're boosting scan res), all of the assistance occurs before combat starts. As long as they don't continue to boost a ship after said ship begins combat, there's no reason it should go suspect.
There isn't a discrepancy in flagging mechanics here. Logi and ReSeBos are already handled the same way. If you assist before combat, no flag; if you assist after combat, you get flagged. The difference is the fact that Logi is only beneficial after a fight starts, whereas ReSeBos are beneficial before a fight starts.
Does this mean that neutral ReSeBo camps in hisec are a thing? Yes, just like bumping, baiting, and suicide ganking. Get used to it.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
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Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad
Circle-Of-Two
98
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 13:48:51 -
[9] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:I have a feeling that I may have had a hand in causing this thread.
When I assist some friends of mine with remote sebos and remote tracking enhancers, even though I know their intent is to gank something undocking or coming through a gate, the act of assistance in itself is not criminal because they haven't done anything yet. And this game does not, will not, and should never punish you for things you might do. So they get to sit on the undock all day until they open fire on a hauler and the game won't punish them ever for locking and scanning haulers. And I can remote sebo him all day long because I'm graciously helping a friend with lock speed who is doing nothing wrong.
It's no different than any remote assistance to any ship that might be participating in PvE. The game makes no distinctions and no predictions about his behavior. When he does something criminal, things change then. But if your modules automatically shut off, then you're not assisting a criminal and you shouldn't be punished. If you did make it so assistance granted automatic flags, that'd be imminently exploitable in a whole different fashion and that is a can of worms you do not want to open.
What about a booster with is neutral, that boosts a fw char which attacks a other char. The two chars are there to fight but the booster is also involved into the fight (passively) but shouldn-¦t be allowed to (in my opionion).
Your point is right but the thing would be that every remote boosting should get the same flag than the boosted ship in the same moment.
+1 |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2300
|
Posted - 2015.07.23 19:23:51 -
[10] - Quote
Tabyll Altol wrote:
What about a booster with is neutral, that boosts a fw char which attacks a other char. The two chars are there to fight but the booster is also involved into the fight (passively) but shouldn-¦t be allowed to (in my opionion).
Your point is right but the thing would be that every remote boosting should get the same flag than the boosted ship in the same moment.
+1
Assuming you are talking about command links....
That's a different kettle of fish. Remote boosting is individually targeted, Command links are not individually targeted, meaning any change to them allows a different sort of abuse, of a single spy to deny the entire fleet links just when a fight starts by flagging themselves suspect or criminal, even if the fleet would be in a legal war.
So any dealing with command links needs the pilot to be chopped out of the links if the links safety setting would disable it, rather than the links stopping. |
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Prolapse.
2620
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 01:33:42 -
[11] - Quote
i don't particularly see a problem for incursions. Cite me an example where incursion logi die because they are running incursions and they go suspect. hint: I won't be checking back for this.
Secondly, give me an example of an incursion fit where remote sebos or projected ECCM is a thing. hint: taint a thing.
As for the Remote Sebo's / projected ECCM creating a suspect flag before the target (ie; the, eg, instalock camper) gets his own aggression, well shucks that would definitely be a shame. The other way to argue this is that because they do not get aggression it's a perfect exploit: you get all the benefits and none of the downsides.
I mean, lets just think a minute. Why do you need a remote Sebo?
Are your Hulks not locking roids fast enough with their 750mm scan res?
Are your noctises not locking wrecks fast enough that you need to deploy a Griffin with several Remote Sebo's?
Pshaw i say. Pshaw.
The fact is the remote sensor booster is a module which allows benefits to be projected for no ill effects. If, in the very least, the ship inherits a suspect flag even with no aggression, it forces the person with the sebo alt to potentially burn a cheap frigate in order to happily instalock all day long. eg; war target jumps gate in Niarja, sebo alt activates the modules and goes flashy, maybe dies to random nerd, but still allows the guy's main to achieve instalock. Maybe he can just jump gate with the sebo alt and cloak on the other side.
Projected ECCM is less of a prevalent feature of EVE than remote sebo's, but it is even more like logistics ships because it must be used in a sustained fashion and projects benefits.
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2059
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Posted - 2015.07.24 02:56:23 -
[12] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:
Secondly, give me an example of an incursion fit where remote sebos or projected ECCM is a thing. hint: taint a thing.
[Basilisk, Basilisk]
Damage Control II
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System
Corelum B-Type 10MN Afterburner
Remote Sensor Booster II
Remote Sensor Booster II
Pith X-Type EM Ward Field
Thukker Large Shield Extender
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Warrior II x5
Nanite Repair Paste x1
Scan Resolution Script x2
[Basilisk, Basilisk]
Damage Control II
Signal Amplifier II
Corelum B-Type 10MN Afterburner
Remote Sensor Booster II
Remote Sensor Booster II
Pith X-Type EM Ward Field
Thukker Large Shield Extender
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Warrior II x5
Nanite Repair Paste x1
Scan Resolution Script x2
Locking frigs with a DDD vindicator is kinda painful without those... |
James Baboli
The.Primary..
1024
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 03:15:28 -
[13] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:i don't particuparty see a problem for incursions. Cite me an example where incursion logi die because they are running incursions and they go suspect.
Safety system fixed this for the most paet. Have seen an entire basi chain get concordokened before safeties though
Just like DDD was a very trusted position presafety as they could potentially concord most of the fleet by attacking a player. Your flagging setup for this opens this to gaming again, which becomes a problem.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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