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Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:54:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Samirol on 04/12/2006 02:55:09
Originally by: Merchantigus
Originally by: Samirol Edited by: Samirol on 04/12/2006 02:49:31
Originally by: Fren Mallow
Originally by: Samirol
Originally by: Rorix Whitecloud ... Pirate warps in at whatever range, and see the mining op within range of scramblers, then, proceeds to go DIRECTLY AFTER THE MINING BARGES.
In the 2nd situation, there's nothing much a small op can do even if you have guards.
i didnt read the thread, but yeah
ecm works wonders for breaking their locks
Nice..
A barge has 1 mid slot and is a paper ship. ECM needs at least 1min to have a succes and got nerfed anyways.
Do you really think, a barge can withstand during that time?!
And if she gets focused by the pirats... boom.
It stands. Low Sec has compared to .5+ and .0 the worst risk vs reward ratio, for miners, for mission runners and for traders.. that's why it's so empty, and only the Pirats and Gankers choose to live there.
Cheers
hm, there is this really really cool thing called friends....in blackbirds.
if they are fitted to the brim with multispecs, there is probably a 95% chance that they will jam that target for long enough so the barges can get out.
Or dampers but logic ftl on the forums sami Whinning is where it's at. it can net the most isk/hour of any game activity
damps are less effective because as soon as they get within a certain range, they can lock. And is whinning an abomination of whining, winning, or whinnying
"and @ the paste eating nub that said that. no **** if you go alone in a mining ship alone you will get pwnt in the face."
made me chuckle
Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
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Maximillian Pele
Caldari Jewel Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:55:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Samirol that would work, but there is a massive isk farmer variable
True.
But unlike the high sec farmers or the complex farmers the people farming missions would be subject to attack by any pirate or PvPer who probed them out.
This would force them to be at their computers - no afk rat or roid farming, no concord to the rescue, no un-enterable gates once you farm the complex key.
If people accepted a group mission and then ran it solo....they'd be exactly the kind of pimped out mission ships pirates have wet dreams about.
The way EvE works now is low sec dwellers want high sec dwellers to be their content. But 0.0 dwellers and CCP seem to want both high and low sec dwellers to become 0.0 dwellers content - those blobs need both members and people to blob you know.
In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite. |
Fren Mallow
Gallente Bluestar Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:57:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Samirol
Originally by: Fren Mallow
It stands. Low Sec has compared to .5+ and .0 the worst risk vs reward ratio, for miners, for mission runners and for traders.. that's why it's so empty, and only the Pirats and Gankers choose to live there.
hm, there is this really really cool thing called friends....in blackbirds.
if they are fitted to the brim with multispecs, there is probably a 95% chance that they will jam that target for long enough so the barges can get out.
AGAIN: Low Sec has compared to .5+ and .0 the worst risk vs reward ratio, for miners, for mission runners and for traders
If I have people with me, who back up my mining ops, this op must be at least as profitable as mining all together in high sec - MINERS CAN CALCULATE THE ISK/HOUR, mkay!
And when you then compare the risk/reward of such an operation with an operation in .0, where the ore is TWICE or THIRD as worth as in low sec.. where do you think, the mining op will mine then?
You just don't realize it.. --------------------------------------------- Never fix a running system, but fix this dead LOW SEC, CCP!
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Merchantigus
Minmatar Riot Zone
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:57:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Maximillian Pele
Originally by: Samirol that would work, but there is a massive isk farmer variable
True.
But unlike the high sec farmers or the complex farmers the people farming missions would be subject to attack by any pirate or PvPer who probed them out.
This would force them to be at their computers - no afk rat or roid farming, no concord to the rescue, no un-enterable gates once you farm the complex key.
If people accepted a group mission and then ran it solo....they'd be exactly the kind of pimped out mission ships pirates have wet dreams about.
The way EvE works now is low sec dwellers want high sec dwellers to be their content. But 0.0 dwellers and CCP seem to want both high and low sec dwellers to become 0.0 dwellers content - those blobs need both members and people to blob you know.
i would nut myself if farmers moved into low sec. what a deathgasm
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Merchantigus
Minmatar Riot Zone
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:58:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 02:58:53
Originally by: Fren Mallow
Originally by: Samirol
Originally by: Fren Mallow
It stands. Low Sec has compared to .5+ and .0 the worst risk vs reward ratio, for miners, for mission runners and for traders.. that's why it's so empty, and only the Pirats and Gankers choose to live there.
hm, there is this really really cool thing called friends....in blackbirds.
if they are fitted to the brim with multispecs, there is probably a 95% chance that they will jam that target for long enough so the barges can get out.
AGAIN: Low Sec has compared to .5+ and .0 the worst risk vs reward ratio, for miners, for mission runners and for traders
If I have people with me, who back up my mining ops, this op must be at least as profitable as mining all together in high sec - MINERS CAN CALCULATE THE ISK/HOUR, mkay!
And when you then compare the risk/reward of such an operation with an operation in .0, where the ore is TWICE or THIRD as worth as in low sec.. where do you think, the mining op will mine then?
You just don't realize it..
how expensive can it possibly be to pay a 2 day old nub in a frig for an hours work? give them 500k and he'd be jumping with glee.
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Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:58:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Merchantigus
Originally by: Maximillian Pele
Originally by: Samirol that would work, but there is a massive isk farmer variable
True.
But unlike the high sec farmers or the complex farmers the people farming missions would be subject to attack by any pirate or PvPer who probed them out.
This would force them to be at their computers - no afk rat or roid farming, no concord to the rescue, no un-enterable gates once you farm the complex key.
If people accepted a group mission and then ran it solo....they'd be exactly the kind of pimped out mission ships pirates have wet dreams about.
The way EvE works now is low sec dwellers want high sec dwellers to be their content. But 0.0 dwellers and CCP seem to want both high and low sec dwellers to become 0.0 dwellers content - those blobs need both members and people to blob you know.
i would nut myself if farmers moved into low sec. what a deathgasm
ever checked the complexes
Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
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Merchantigus
Minmatar Riot Zone
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:59:00 -
[157]
i will now
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Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.12.04 03:02:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Fren Mallow
Originally by: Samirol
Originally by: Fren Mallow
It stands. Low Sec has compared to .5+ and .0 the worst risk vs reward ratio, for miners, for mission runners and for traders.. that's why it's so empty, and only the Pirats and Gankers choose to live there.
hm, there is this really really cool thing called friends....in blackbirds.
if they are fitted to the brim with multispecs, there is probably a 95% chance that they will jam that target for long enough so the barges can get out.
AGAIN: Low Sec has compared to .5+ and .0 the worst risk vs reward ratio, for miners, for mission runners and for traders
If I have people with me, who back up my mining ops, this op must be at least as profitable as mining all together in high sec - MINERS CAN CALCULATE THE ISK/HOUR, mkay!
And when you then compare the risk/reward of such an operation with an operation in .0, where the ore is TWICE or THIRD as worth as in low sec.. where do you think, the mining op will mine then?
You just don't realize it..
0.0 is different than low sec. you get blobbed more while low sec is more of lone pirates. which is easier to defend against? 10 people or 1?
Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
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Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.12.04 03:03:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Merchantigus i will now
right after dt, they run in and camp the last parts
Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
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Fren Mallow
Gallente Bluestar Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.04 03:04:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Merchantigus how expensive can it possibly be to pay a 2 day old nub in a frig for an hours work? give them 500k and he'd be jumping with glee.
Do we speak here about real pirates or do you just want to troll?!
If this would be only 2 day noobs with friggs after me, I would just give my scouts some work.. but those aren't the usual visitors, mate.
gn8 --------------------------------------------- Never fix a running system, but fix this dead LOW SEC, CCP!
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Fren Mallow
Gallente Bluestar Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.04 03:06:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Samirol 0.0 is different than low sec. you get blobbed more while low sec is more of lone pirates. which is easier to defend against? 10 people or 1?
That's why corps who finally managed to back up their mining ops are taking the bigger risk in .0 than in .4 to .1, BECAUSE, the reward in .0 is at least TWICE as high as in .4 to .1
cya later --------------------------------------------- Never fix a running system, but fix this dead LOW SEC, CCP!
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Merchantigus
Minmatar Riot Zone
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Posted - 2006.12.04 03:08:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 03:08:59
Originally by: Fren Mallow
Originally by: Merchantigus how expensive can it possibly be to pay a 2 day old nub in a frig for an hours work? give them 500k and he'd be jumping with glee.
Do we speak here about real pirates or do you just want to troll?!
If this would be only 2 day noobs with friggs after me, I would just give my scouts some work.. but those aren't the usual visitors, mate.
gn8
jesus once again reading comprehsnion ftw. a 2 day old noob with a bit of ecm is all you need to fend off average pirate in low sec. learn to read mmmky?
"That's why corps who finally managed to back up their mining ops are taking the bigger risk in .0 than in .4 to .1, BECAUSE, the reward in .0 is at least TWICE as high as in .4 to .1
cya later" and yes but it takes alot less to back up your mining in low sec than it does in .0 2 frigs with ew vs atleast 2 battleships and some cruisers.
reading comprehsnion ftw.
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Acama
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Posted - 2006.12.04 03:08:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Acama on 04/12/2006 03:08:53
Originally by: Merchantigus
how expensive can it possibly be to pay a 2 day old nub in a frig for an hours work? give them 500k and he'd be jumping with glee.
rofl I can see the partial TII fitted blaserraxes and railranises now, running from the 2 day noob in his atron going "heh all teh pyrat scum will run from mai LAZERS and I hav TWOO civilan shield boosters lololl"
Ever tried running ecm on a frig with awful cap skills? Or, in fact, at all?
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Merchantigus
Minmatar Riot Zone
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Posted - 2006.12.04 03:11:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 03:13:25 Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 03:12:17
Originally by: Acama Edited by: Acama on 04/12/2006 03:08:53
Originally by: Merchantigus
how expensive can it possibly be to pay a 2 day old nub in a frig for an hours work? give them 500k and he'd be jumping with glee.
rofl I can see the partial TII fitted blaserraxes and railranises now, running from the 2 day noob in his atron going "heh all teh pyrat scum will run from mai LAZERS and I hav TWOO civilan shield boosters lololl"
Ever tried running ecm on a frig with awful cap skills? Or, in fact, at all?
see above post for reading comprehesion coppy and paste.
they don't have to do it long just long enough for the barge to jump out. They don't have to take down the pirates just jam them for the few moments it takes for the barge to get out. and if the barge was aligned this is not a very long time at all. + unless the pirate gets lucky and lands on top of you you wouldn't even need the frigs. 20range on jammers. dont sit right next to wtz point. for that matter most roids are out a bit from the jump in points anyway.
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Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.12.04 03:14:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Acama Edited by: Acama on 04/12/2006 03:08:53
Originally by: Merchantigus
how expensive can it possibly be to pay a 2 day old nub in a frig for an hours work? give them 500k and he'd be jumping with glee.
rofl I can see the partial TII fitted blaserraxes and railranises now, running from the 2 day noob in his atron going "heh all teh pyrat scum will run from mai LAZERS and I hav TWOO civilan shield boosters lololl"
Ever tried running ecm on a frig with awful cap skills? Or, in fact, at all?
ever used a griffin?
Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
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Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tough Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.04 04:17:00 -
[166]
Few suggestions that would hopefully increase the number of people setting up shop in lowsec.
1. Small clumps of high end asteroids that rarley spawn in the same belt.
2. Introduce better NPC belt spawns. Maybee up to 500k BS spawns and their officer equivlents. Along with the introduction of BS spawns increasing the number of officer spawns in all of lowsec could possibly be a good idea.
3. Introduce lvl 5 "Group" missions that are wideley available in low sec.
4. Introduce new .5 systems deep within low sec that act as market hubs and a safe haven for those running from pirates ect.
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Phoenix Lonestar
Litanies of Hate
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Posted - 2006.12.04 04:46:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Phoenix Lonestar on 04/12/2006 04:48:36
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Few suggestions that would hopefully increase the number of people setting up shop in lowsec.
1. Small clumps of high end asteroids that rarley spawn in the same belt.
2. Introduce better NPC belt spawns. Maybee up to 500k BS spawns and their officer equivlents. Along with the introduction of BS spawns increasing the number of officer spawns in all of lowsec could possibly be a good idea.
3. Introduce lvl 5 "Group" missions that are wideley available in low sec.
4. Introduce new .5 systems deep within low sec that act as market hubs and a safe haven for those running from pirates ect.
I like the idea of "safe havens" in 0.0. They'd probably ultimately end up being useless, but it might be the placebo effect 0.0 needs.
In addition, there need to be more routes around the "bottleneck" systems to 0.0.
I think if there can be a level of incentive that the macroers can't help but go to low sec for, you'll get a LOT more players in low sec at least hunting them. I, for one, would love to put a hurting on them.
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Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.12.04 05:39:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
4. Introduce new .5 systems deep within low sec that act as market hubs and a safe haven for those running from pirates ect.
there are such places. i can name one off the bat in essence.
the problem is that pirates cant use them so they often go to waste
Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
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Arcticblue2
Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc
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Posted - 2006.12.04 10:23:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Samirol 0.0 is different than low sec. you get blobbed more while low sec is more of lone pirates. which is easier to defend against? 10 people or 1?
Well while I where living in low sec in about 70-80% of the cases I where jumped I where jumped by multiple pirates... it usually where around 6-1 in pirates favor. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor. |
Amiable Quinn
Minmatar Lasleinur Production Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2006.12.04 10:31:00 -
[170]
Yeah, the suggestion of "hiring 2-day old newbs to guard me in ECM ships is SOOOO realistic" .
Yes, theoretically it couldbe done. But why do it? It is going to take some time to:
A. Find these noobs. B. Explain to them the basics of PvP. C. Get them in ships they could use.
And then you have to arrange a time for you to all be online together so that you can go mining in low sec.
Why the heck would anyone do that, when if you are going to invest that much time in organizing you could just find a few decent players and head off to 0.0?
The currency in any MMORPG is TIME not money. The problem in low-sec isn't that you can't escape pirates, once you spend a few eeks in the game it is easy to avoid pirates unless you are careless, the problem is that pirates radically slow down your operations. Face it, if you are mining/ratting in low sec and you see a pirate enter local, you must immediately head for a SS or a station or you WILL get ganked. Even in the best case scenario in out of the way systems you are going to run into pirates at lest 2-3 times a week. Often they will go Afk in the system, hoping you will be dumb enough to continue your operations and they can get you when they come back. The only real option is to leave the system entirely, or wait it out.
You USED to be able to get away with missioning in low sec, but with the probe changes now you will have to SS upon pirates entering local as well.
Meanwhile you could be making more money running missions/mining uniterrupted in high sec at the lower payout, or making FAR more money mining/ratting in 0.0 with far less risk.
There are a few organized corps/alliances have a presence in low sec (like my RP alliance) but they are there for flavor, realistically those corps would do much better joining a 0.0 alliance or forging there own 0.0 territory.
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Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.04 11:10:00 -
[171]
Well, there's nothing much to prevent a megathron, or now, a Rokh to warp in at 200km, insta-pop your barges, and laugh as your escorts are out of range to hurt/ecm/damp them. Repopulate Low Security!
Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D |
Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2006.12.04 11:24:00 -
[172]
War Dec someone and hunt them all over Eve...
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.04 11:46:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Amiable Quinn Good points.
The existence of alliances like yours that try to secure low-sec is an absolute reason why the proposal for some type of economy driven system for low-sec sovereignty needs to exist. It is absurd that you can have your alliance mission as to create a secure region, but still be taking sec status hits when you go after known pirates who keep themselves just above -5.
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Fren Mallow
Gallente Bluestar Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.04 13:34:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Fren Mallow on 04/12/2006 13:36:10
Originally by: Amiable Quinn ...things about risk vs reward in .4 to .1 is more worse than COMPARED to .5+ and .0..
FULL ACK!
Those pvp'ers who all the day long tell how they would manage such mission/mining/trade ops with several people involved just don't get, that...
A) for the same amount of risk/managment .0 is better rewarded
and
B) for the same reward as in .4 to .1 those ops just don't need this managment/risk at all as in .5+
Cheers
Till those reward vs. risk thing isn't resolved, low sec, won't polupulate. --------------------------------------------- Never fix a running system, but fix this dead LOW SEC, CCP!
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Allen Deckard
Gallente LFC Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.04 13:47:00 -
[175]
Originally by: zevex Seriously...if you get ganked in low sec, even with the warp to zero option, you are simply careless and deserve to be ganked. Here is a hint for safe travel....WARP CORE STABS. I know I know, the Eve community hates them...or do they? People hate them when they are used in PvP, thus the recent nerf, but there is no shame in using them for travel. Fill your lows with nano fibers and stabs until you get to where you are going, then dock and refit. With "warp to zero", gate campers should not be able to catch you warping into a gate, and when you are warping away from a gate the stabs should facilitate an easy get away...oh, and if you are in a frigate, you dont even need stabs because you should be able to get to warp before any tacklers can lock you. Now quit whining, use your head, and play the game.
To travel with wcs thats fine. But your not asking people to just travel threw low sec you asking them to live and do missions. I dont really know of to many setups that have wcs and nano's in their tanking setups. With the major super easy probing for peeps doing missions now (yes it's that easy 20 sec and I am on you) even if it's not a pirate you still have loot theives.
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Radioactive Babe
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Posted - 2006.12.04 14:05:00 -
[176]
Pirates always come back to the "bring a friend" ... and that argument always falls flat on its face due to simple economics ... to have enough people in a gang/fleet to be able to mine in safety requires so many people camping gates etc that it would be more cost effective to have everyone in 0.5+ mining in safety.
Getting a n00b in a merlin is as useless as having them there in a shuttle, they wont have the skills or the patience to sit there ready to lock and dampen/ecm (if it worked) a pierat ... and as was pointed out, if this became a commonplace tactic the pierats would all turn up in medium/long range ships (mega with t2 rails at 50km would one volley a barge I reckon - with just about any ammo)
So, everyone is going in circles, pierats saying that empire needs a nerf to bring them more targets and empire dwellers saying they would rather go to 0.0 or quit than go to low sec .... CCP have to make a choice on how to handle it (it certainly cant be left to stagnate like it is now) ... would be nice if one posted
<nelson>ha, ha</nelson> |
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