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Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
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Posted - 2015.07.29 03:15:12 -
[31] - Quote
elitatwo wrote: You don't seem to have lived in sov-sec. That is fine. I did, twice. Now here is the funny thing, at no time does anyone in an alliance need isk. Everything you can dream of is handed to you and if you loose it, youll get a new one.
If you are one of those mega-collectors that constantly "need" 300 billion in her wallet that is fine too but on an alliance level unnecessary.
Where do you think those "free" items come from? If its alliance/coalition that provide items, there is a 99% chance the isk to pay for those items come from moons (or selling moon minerals if you need it that basic) If its individual players they either mined or ratted (normal PvE) or bought PLEX to pay for those items.
Normaly replacement programs are run on moon income, ratting/mining is mostly for personal gain. |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
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Posted - 2015.07.29 03:16:34 -
[32] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Who the hell is gonna put billions worth of ship on the line for a resource that might deplete the very next day? Someone living in a fantasy world
fixed that for you |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1530
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Posted - 2015.07.29 03:34:39 -
[33] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Haatakan Reppola wrote:...Those materials have a value and the ships have isk value also. If we ignore the value on ships and only look at them as minerals/labor then moon mining is NOT an income source for alliances. When someone fight and loose ships they have to replace them using either isk to buy stuff or they have to use their own materials that could have been sold for isk, bouth means less isk in the wallet! Okay let's start at the beginning. 4.5 billion years ago a star just formed in a gas clowd.. -erm oops that's too early. You don't seem to have lived in sov-sec. That is fine. I did, twice. Now here is the funny thing, at no time does anyone in an alliance need isk. Everything you can dream of is handed to you and if you loose it, youll get a new one. If you are one of those mega-collectors that constantly "need" 300 billion in her wallet that is fine too but on an alliance level unnecessary. Everything "handed" to you comes from somewhere. Every item gifted came from someone else getting the resources to make it and defending the facilities it was made in. That itself holds value that could just as easily have been shifted into someone else' wallet. Just because they are nullsec alliances doesn't mean they get to bypass the mechanics of the game and just supply their SRPs out of nothing.
If space resources deplete it directly affects the chain of events which provides those who haven't bothered to understand their alliance level logistics with their free ships. |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
327
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Posted - 2015.07.29 03:38:17 -
[34] - Quote
The recurrent assumption that you can change highsec players if only you make them poor enough has not worked. CCP chopped highsec mining income by a huge amount, did some massive exodus of highsec miners flood null. wh or low occur, no.
When the income grinds to near or as you say reaches zero we arent going to fight for resources we might move around if it works but if highsec runs dry of resources this game is dead.
If CCP us dumb enough to implement this idea it will be the last and final dumb decision they make.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
510
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Posted - 2015.07.29 03:40:40 -
[35] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote: I do get how 0.0 incursions are run (or why they are not), what im saying is that 0.0 players would be whining like crasy if they had to move around as much as HS incursion runners do...
This hypothesis fails due to the fact that null players will gladly do HS incursions rather than any income stream in null.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
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Posted - 2015.07.29 06:19:11 -
[36] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Haatakan Reppola wrote: I do get how 0.0 incursions are run (or why they are not), what im saying is that 0.0 players would be whining like crasy if they had to move around as much as HS incursion runners do...
This hypothesis fails due to the fact that null players will gladly do HS incursions rather than any income stream in null.
Say that to the hordes of ratters in 0.0 High sec incursion have no chance take all the ratters from 0.0
SOME 0.0 players come to high sec for incursions, and still most of them claim they make more or the same isk in back in null |
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
106
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Posted - 2015.07.29 07:33:03 -
[37] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:SOME 0.0 players come to high sec for incursions, and still most of them claim they make more or the same isk in back in null
Source please?
I can promise you we don't, not without the use of multiple alts accounts. Individual income in null cannot even begin to touch that of HS incursions anymore. And by anymore, I mean since the removal of fighter assign (or skynet) you all cried so desperately for because your day trips to sov null were being slapped down by the better equipped residents. Every other activity in null that makes comparable income (not individual) requires groups of players or alts to accomplish with actually greater than zero risk to their assets.
Simply put, the very mechanics surrounding high sec [incursions] are what allow you to function in near perfect safety while make significantly more individual income. Now if participating in an incursion flagged you as suspect then nobody would be saying a thing since you are now putting your assets at risk in a highly populated area. A risk that is actually worth the income you are seeing. |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
70
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Posted - 2015.07.29 16:49:15 -
[38] - Quote
Nasar Vyron wrote:Haatakan Reppola wrote:SOME 0.0 players come to high sec for incursions, and still most of them claim they make more or the same isk in back in null Source please? I can promise you we don't, not without the use of multiple alts accounts. Individual income in null cannot even begin to touch that of HS incursions anymore. And by anymore, I mean since the removal of fighter assign (or skynet) you all cried so desperately for because your day trips to sov null were being slapped down by the better equipped residents. Every other activity in null that makes comparable income (not individual) requires groups of players or alts to accomplish with actually greater than zero risk to their assets. Simply put, the very mechanics surrounding high sec [incursions] are what allow you to function in near perfect safety while make significantly more individual income. Now if participating in an incursion flagged you as suspect then nobody would be saying a thing since you are now putting your assets at risk in a highly populated area. A risk that is actually worth the income you are seeing.
I daily see people claiming htey make 150-200m/hr ACTIVE ratting in 0.0, sure it may be lies but im in no position to argue what income an activity i dont engage in can get. A single incursion have "room" for 2-3 fleets per system, thats 120 in HQ + 60 Assault + 10 Vanguard + 5 Scout. Lets call it 3 HQ systems per incursion and say that include the other systems also for pilots, this gives 360 players per Incursion and max 1080 players total for the 3 Incursions that can spawn in high sec. How many people do you think are ratting in 0.0 total? Only number i found was 3524 0.0 systems, that mean 1 player per 3.5 system.
Incursion isk/hr is VERY dependent on a good fleet, you can not compare a good incursion fleet income to afk ratting in 0.0 and say 0.0 have bad income. Compare active ratting with a good ship/fit to what these 100-150billion isk fleets make (not counting purple snowflakes) |
Dino Zavr
Shadow Owls
49
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:43:41 -
[39] - Quote
Personally i understand this like a suggestion to turn everyone into nomads. This definitely shall impact everyone. First, after two months in game, relatively new players shall be forced to go low or null for isks to be killed again and again and finally quit Second, this shall impact activities which initially are designed to be time consuming like the research capitals blueprints and building capitals or similar Third, this is to enforce players to cooperate or quit, so the majority of those people who prefer highsec grinding will most likely quit, as renting fast decaying systems will no longer be an easy option Fourth, this make huge player-made structures obsolete as they are not very much mobile Fifth this, most likely, will provoke donations, because not everyone prefer hard ways while lazy and easy one exist Sure, I like the suggestion, however in my understanding its implementation will severely decrease the game's playerbase. Again, this is only my personal opinion. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
511
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:57:25 -
[40] - Quote
Just the fact that people in null outsource their income generating activities to HS should tell you enough of the story, though there have been many, many threads exploring this problem in detail. You don't see this happen very much the other way around, do you?
With the anomaly changes, more people can earn earn income per system, but that income still doesn't approach what an individual could do in HS, not even factoring in the hours required to organize, take, maintain, and defend sov space, nor the risks involved. Literally the only advantage is when you have 3-4 or more accounts, but that shouldn't be a requirement to live in null, should it?
Take a look at these statistics from 2014, I take it dotlan is a trusted source? http://i.imgur.com/9vhmQnH.png
Having seen that, I couldn't agree more that depletion needs to be a thing. For every ratter in HS, you are depleting content and social interaction (the things that make people stay subbed), whereas the ratting in null is much more evenly distributed, and the systems could handle it far better, and encourages people to join corps, alliances, etc, and get involved, therefore staying subbed. I can't stand all the null hate around, when it is HS that needs the hate, its is HS that literally asphyxiates content form being generated. It should be no surprise that a few big fish dominate nullsec - there is nothing there for the little guy.
Deplete HS, and New Eden has something to actually fight over.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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