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Shrike Crendraven
Lords Of The Universe
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 20:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am well aware that as new player i know little about the current balance, but, for me, the battleship is the most disappoint ship type in eve.
Starting in the common sense area(or as much common sense as we can predict the technology in 1000s years):
Why are battleship so big with so few tech systems onboard?
Given a cruiser can have X slots, a battleship that is 5x the size (or more), should have slightly more equipment slots than the "30% more than cruiser"....
Difference in armor, hull, shield is not staggering either. Not to mention some of the t3 cruiser can get several times over effectiove hitpoints of a battleship.
Weapons. Are a.... Sad joke? Given Eve balance, Han Solo could have solo'd (har har) the imperial dreadnought/battleship instead of running away from it.
I know that precariously constructed and heavily patched balance is hard to keep - but please for the love of god give each battleship 5ish more high-slots (WAIT!) that can fit only *small* guns. So it adds very little to the effective high end pve/pvp dmg, BUT fixes the horrible unfairness of frig/destroyer/cruiser vs battleship fights.
Can u imagine the engineers of current battleships - while designing its battle potential.
- "So this frigate goes under our guns and slowly kills us, while keeping us unable to move fast or jump...." - "And it slowly kills us? yes, thats the plan, junior! Now go fetch those blueprints to the factory!"
Utility slots - I guess that more than half a kilometer of high tech ship is hardly enough space to fit some (obvious?!) electronic warfare toys.... I mean, really, every single one should have a tractor beam, target painter, scrambler and a web. Dedicated slots, or just built in t2ish version(the hull has requirements, add more requirements to fly it)
Yes i know, balance. You put yourself in a tough position, and its very hard to fix battleships without completely destroying the "game-of-cruisers".
Increase the price, 5times, 10 times... Add some little gun slots, give each BS 2-3 more utility slots. Please. |
Valkin Mordirc
1292
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 21:29:15 -
[2] - Quote
No frigate is going to tackle a properly fit Megathron on it's own.
No Frigate isn't going to even touch a properly fitted Barghest or Raven.
No frigate will take down a Rattler Geddon or Domi.
I'm really getting tired of these Battleships sux ccpls fix threads
#DeleteTheWeak
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1260
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 22:13:16 -
[3] - Quote
Another sad case of "bigger must be better right?" |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8408
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 22:20:20 -
[4] - Quote
Unless the battleship is either...
- hyperspecialized (see: sniper or PvE fit) - fail-fitted ("look ma! I ken make RAINBOWS wit mah lazors!") - specifically designed as a fleet ship (ex. Abaddon, Mealstrom, Rokh, etc)
... a single frigate will likely die against a single battleship.
Now a swarm of frigates is a different matter and no amount of small guns or tank is going to help a lone battleship against that. However a group of battleships supported by logi is a wrecking ball that few other fleet doctrines can go toe to toe against.
Basically... battleships shine when used with groups. They are not so good solo. This was a gameplay decision to force older players with more skillpoints; money, and "powerful ships" to rely on younger players to defend them (that was the intent anyways).
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
577
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 22:25:07 -
[5] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: - fail-fitted ("look ma! I ken make RAINBOWS wit mah lazors!").
I think this is an unfair example of a fail fit ship. . . rainbow lasers are pretty.
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
358
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 00:20:16 -
[6] - Quote
Interesting. I was quite excited myself that day I finally was able to afford an Apocalypse class battleship.
To this day, 3 years later, I still fly around in my Paladin which I still completely love spinning around.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 04:00:46 -
[7] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:Interesting. I was quite excited myself that day I finally was able to afford an Apocalypse class battleship.
To this day, 3 years later, I still fly around in my Paladin which I still completely love spinning around.
Only in high sec I bet.
Oh what a brave and gallant warrior you are Sir Kanerian.
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Bastion Arzi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
221
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 12:15:26 -
[8] - Quote
this myth that bs will lose to single frig is becuase of pvp fit frigs killing mission runner bs. it does not mean any bs will lose to a frig lol omg.
my vargur will instablap any/most frig(s) sitting like 20km away not moving.
and if he got under my guns he'd have a heavy neut and drones to deal with. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1248
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 12:47:19 -
[9] - Quote
I like my, vargur, rattlesnake, machariel, domi, typhoon fleet issue, tempest and vindicator oh and panther is the best ship in the game idgaf what everyone else says
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1262
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 12:49:21 -
[10] - Quote
armageddon is also one of the most important ships in wormhole space right now.
OP you just haven't seen enough of EVE to know what is good and what isn't
I can give you lot's of ships that are "not meta" and therefore not in use at the moment but there's no single ship CLASS that is completely obsolete (apart from maybe assault frigs, make t3ds barred from smalls already ffs) |
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
444
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 13:41:51 -
[11] - Quote
Shrike Crendraven wrote:I am well aware that as new player i know little about the current balance, but, for me, the battleship is the most disappoint ship type in eve.
Starting in the common sense area(or as much common sense as we can predict the technology in 1000s years):
Why are battleship so big with so few tech systems onboard?
Given a cruiser can have X slots, a battleship that is 5x the size (or more), should have slightly more equipment slots than the "30% more than cruiser"....
Difference in armor, hull, shield is not staggering either. Not to mention some of the t3 cruiser can get several times over effectiove hitpoints of a battleship.
Weapons. Are a.... Sad joke? Given Eve balance, Han Solo could have solo'd (har har) the imperial dreadnought/battleship instead of running away from it.
I know that precariously constructed and heavily patched balance is hard to keep - but please for the love of god give each battleship 5ish more high-slots (WAIT!) that can fit only *small* guns. So it adds very little to the effective high end pve/pvp dmg, BUT fixes the horrible unfairness of frig/destroyer/cruiser vs battleship fights.
Can u imagine the engineers of current battleships - while designing its battle potential.
- "So this frigate goes under our guns and slowly kills us, while keeping us unable to move fast or jump...." - "And it slowly kills us? yes, thats the plan, junior! Now go fetch those blueprints to the factory!"
Utility slots - I guess that more than half a kilometer of high tech ship is hardly enough space to fit some (obvious?!) electronic warfare toys.... I mean, really, every single one should have a tractor beam, target painter, scrambler and a web. Dedicated slots, or just built in t2ish version(the hull has requirements, add more requirements to fly it)
Yes i know, balance. You put yourself in a tough position, and its very hard to fix battleships without completely destroying the "game-of-cruisers".
Increase the price, 5times, 10 times... Add some little gun slots, give each BS 2-3 more utility slots. Please.
No. No. No. I really wish these "give BS more slots for SMALL guns" threads would stop popping up. They would break any semblance of balance. Why fly any other ship, when I can put small and large turrets/launchers on my ship, basically making it so it never needs support. Then you go on about adding more utility slots on top of that... your joking/high/drunk right?
So my RHML typhoon FI with 2 heavy neuts, mjd, 1200dps and 130k EHP is now going to add on RLML, and some smartbombs, nos, and more neuts? I can alternate between RLML and RHML while one is on reload. Insta-cap any ship except another BS, and kill any frig/cruiser/bc that gets close. And then, if i cant catch or kill you, I can mjd away. In what way does this sound balanced to you?
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
158
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 15:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Shrike Crendraven wrote:I am well aware that as new player i know little about the current balance, but, for me, the battleship is the most disappoint ship type in eve.
Starting in the common sense area(or as much common sense as we can predict the technology in 1000s years):
Why are battleship so big with so few tech systems onboard?
Given a cruiser can have X slots, a battleship that is 5x the size (or more), should have slightly more equipment slots than the "30% more than cruiser"....
Difference in armor, hull, shield is not staggering either. Not to mention some of the t3 cruiser can get several times over effectiove hitpoints of a battleship.
Weapons. Are a.... Sad joke? Given Eve balance, Han Solo could have solo'd (har har) the imperial dreadnought/battleship instead of running away from it.
I know that precariously constructed and heavily patched balance is hard to keep - but please for the love of god give each battleship 5ish more high-slots (WAIT!) that can fit only *small* guns. So it adds very little to the effective high end pve/pvp dmg, BUT fixes the horrible unfairness of frig/destroyer/cruiser vs battleship fights.
Can u imagine the engineers of current battleships - while designing its battle potential.
- "So this frigate goes under our guns and slowly kills us, while keeping us unable to move fast or jump...." - "And it slowly kills us? yes, thats the plan, junior! Now go fetch those blueprints to the factory!"
Utility slots - I guess that more than half a kilometer of high tech ship is hardly enough space to fit some (obvious?!) electronic warfare toys.... I mean, really, every single one should have a tractor beam, target painter, scrambler and a web. Dedicated slots, or just built in t2ish version(the hull has requirements, add more requirements to fly it)
Yes i know, balance. You put yourself in a tough position, and its very hard to fix battleships without completely destroying the "game-of-cruisers".
Increase the price, 5times, 10 times... Add some little gun slots, give each BS 2-3 more utility slots. Please. No. No. No. I really wish these "give BS more slots for SMALL guns" threads would stop popping up. They would break any semblance of balance. Why fly any other ship, when I can put small and large turrets/launchers on my ship, basically making it so it never needs support. Then you go on about adding more utility slots on top of that... your joking/high/drunk right? So my RHML typhoon FI with 2 heavy neuts, mjd, 1200dps and 130k EHP is now going to add on RLML, and some smartbombs, nos, and more neuts? I can alternate between RLML and RHML while one is on reload. Insta-cap any ship except another BS, and kill any frig/cruiser/bc that gets close. And then, if i cant catch or kill you, I can mjd away. In what way does this sound balanced to you?
Sounds balanced to me but hell what do i know I'm tearing up the verse in a Svipul.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16452
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 15:47:30 -
[13] - Quote
Do not buff me.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Shrike Crendraven
Lords Of The Universe
3
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 18:13:26 -
[14] - Quote
Bigger and more expensive ships are meant to be better in every aspect, yes. One good thing about eve is that the balance is about the money. The more u pay, the better stuff u get.
I'd say cars are a good analogy - sure u can drive a dacia duster - its a good car, but a range rover thats priced around 100.000+ eur *is* better in each and every aspect. Why isnt everyone driving a range rover then??? Those dumb people!! :D See my point?
BS should require a significant party of smaller ships to defeat - lets say 3-5 cruisers. (currently one cruiser can pretty much destroy a battleship, isnt it wrong?)
The price should be a barrier so not everyone can buy and fly one - i dont really see any problems. Imaging BS hulls for 15bil apiece. Creditcard warriors wont care, gankers wil be supperhappy to organize a bs-ganking party, finally whoever gets a BS will be happy as they get more firepower and "relative" (;-)) safety.
It really does not have to be "fair". Please adjust the price so the loss of one can really hurt. And give them the power they lack. |
Nafensoriel
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
52
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 18:26:40 -
[15] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Do not buff me.
Please listen to this man. He's scary enough warping around in a cruiser gang with a battleship. If you buff him he won't need us around anymore. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
445
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 19:06:58 -
[16] - Quote
Shrike Crendraven wrote:Bigger and more expensive ships are meant to be better in every aspect, yes. One good thing about eve is that the balance is about the money. The more u pay, the better stuff u get.
I'd say cars are a good analogy - sure u can drive a dacia duster - its a good car, but a range rover thats priced around 100.000+ eur *is* better in each and every aspect. Why isnt everyone driving a range rover then??? Those dumb people!! :D See my point?
BS should require a significant party of smaller ships to defeat - lets say 3-5 cruisers. (currently one cruiser can pretty much destroy a battleship, isnt it wrong?)
The price should be a barrier so not everyone can buy and fly one - i dont really see any problems. Imaging BS hulls for 15bil apiece. Creditcard warriors wont care, gankers wil be supperhappy to organize a bs-ganking party, finally whoever gets a BS will be happy as they get more firepower and "relative" (;-)) safety.
It really does not have to be "fair". Please adjust the price so the loss of one can really hurt. And give them the power they lack.
Your analogy is flawed. A range rover is not better than a dacia duster in every aspect, because it probably has poorer fuel economy. So it might be faster and haul/tow more, but in doing so uses more fuel than the duster. You cannot just get "more" of everything for free. Everything has a cost/balance. This isnt WoW.
Price is not the only balancing point. Big alliances have no worries about "cost". They fly what will give them the biggest advantage. See ishtars. They cost similarly to t1 BS, and they have been used for years as fleet doctrine. Alliances are out welping rattlesnakes, gilas, machariels with no f***s given about cost.
Some null bears, market traders, indy folk or WH dwellers have amassed hundreds of billions of isk. Money is of no object to them. You introduce a ship that is broken and try and balance by price, all you will see are BS flying around with small/large guns and no other ship can compete with them. So then everyone flies BS and the game becomes boring.
And even worse, it becomes immensely harder on newbros who dont have the SP to compete. The "tackle rifter" would get vollied once he landed point because you want to put 5 small guns on a BS, that already has neuts, a large drone bay, or is fit with missiles.
1 cruiser will NOT kill a BS if the person in the BS has a clue on what they are doing. Or is fit with BS strengths in mind. Your ratting BS on the other hand WILL crumble to a pvp fit cruiser. Thats different though, as PVE and PVP are 2 different animals.
Then you end it with a bang. 15b BS? How much have you smoked, and can i have some? Yes, lets just make it impossible for the players who have the SP and skill to fly a BS in ever being able to fly one. 15b is slightly more than JF cost. Which has a jump drive.
Again, price alone is not a balancing point. Point defense/small turrets on BS is a terrible idea. Learn to fly/fit them, and you will see that most are in decent shape.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Shrike Crendraven
Lords Of The Universe
3
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 19:51:48 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:Your analogy is flawed. A range rover is not better than a dacia duster in every aspect, because it probably has poorer fuel economy. So it might be faster and haul/tow more, but in doing so uses more fuel than the duster. You cannot just get "more" of everything for free. Everything has a cost/balance. This isnt WoW.
Fuel economy is "cost". At the same time hardly worth accounting for (give u an exmaple - i tank 200eur monthly, this is nothing compared to the price of car divided by 4-5 years + insurance costs + taxes and whatnot).
Speaking of BS costing more i meant exactly that - make them cost more. In fuel, in hulls in setup. It will balance out.
Many many games are making the flaw of going into separate pve and pvp ways.... Pve would really be more fun if more than raw dps and tank was required ;-( Plus you wouldnt have the whole pve/pvp fits problem ever.
The tackler thingy - well, seen any sci-fi movie when a swarm of small vessels rush for a bigger enemies?? - yes they get swatted, most of them. As they should. This tackling is very un-intuitive role... Catch a running away ship - u can try, u try to slow him down (he will die if u succeed), he tries to kill u. Why do u want to have 100% bulletproof tacklers?
You are defending a few very broken and illogical things as the game was built around them many years ago. Ofcourse you will think you are right. Im just stating my opinion ;-)
I will say no more. |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 20:15:41 -
[18] - Quote
Shrike Crendraven wrote: Why do u want to have 100% bulletproof tacklers?
You are defending a few very broken and illogical things as the game was built around them many years ago. Ofcourse you will think you are right. Im just stating my opinion ;-)
I will say no more.
Tacklers are in no way bulletproof, unless its a PvE fitted BS they are very likely to die, If its a PvE fitted frig/cruiser against a PvP BS guess who wins? |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
967
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 20:22:14 -
[19] - Quote
Shrike Crendraven wrote:Bigger and more expensive ships are meant to be better in every aspect, yes. One good thing about eve is that the balance is about the money. The more u pay, the better stuff u get.
I'd say cars are a good analogy - sure u can drive a dacia duster - its a good car, but a range rover thats priced around 100.000+ eur *is* better in each and every aspect. Why isnt everyone driving a range rover then??? Those dumb people!! :D See my point?
BS should require a significant party of smaller ships to defeat - lets say 3-5 cruisers. (currently one cruiser can pretty much destroy a battleship, isnt it wrong?)
The price should be a barrier so not everyone can buy and fly one - i dont really see any problems. Imaging BS hulls for 15bil apiece. Creditcard warriors wont care, gankers wil be supperhappy to organize a bs-ganking party, finally whoever gets a BS will be happy as they get more firepower and "relative" (;-)) safety.
It really does not have to be "fair". Please adjust the price so the loss of one can really hurt. And give them the power they lack. Train for super I'd say, and enjoy dem costs.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
|
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
445
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 20:53:08 -
[20] - Quote
Shrike Crendraven wrote:Quote:Your analogy is flawed. A range rover is not better than a dacia duster in every aspect, because it probably has poorer fuel economy. So it might be faster and haul/tow more, but in doing so uses more fuel than the duster. You cannot just get "more" of everything for free. Everything has a cost/balance. This isnt WoW. Fuel economy is "cost". At the same time hardly worth accounting for (give u an exmaple - i tank 200eur monthly, this is nothing compared to the price of car divided by 4-5 years + insurance costs + taxes and whatnot). Speaking of BS costing more i meant exactly that - make them cost more. In fuel, in hulls in setup. It will balance out. Many many games are making the flaw of going into separate pve and pvp ways.... Pve would really be more fun if more than raw dps and tank was required ;-( Plus you wouldnt have the whole pve/pvp fits problem ever. The tackler thingy - well, seen any sci-fi movie when a swarm of small vessels rush for a bigger enemies?? - yes they get swatted, most of them. As they should. This tackling is very un-intuitive role... Catch a running away ship - u can try, u try to slow him down (he will die if u succeed), he tries to kill u. Why do u want to have 100% bulletproof tacklers? You are defending a few very broken and illogical things as the game was built around them many years ago. Ofcourse you will think you are right. Im just stating my opinion ;-) I will say no more.
What about weight/size? Harder to navigate in confined areas. The increased mass can also play a role in off roading. Its better at certain things than the other. But is not better at everything than a duster.
Those bigger ships getting swarmed normally have their own fighter squadrons for defense from smaller ships. In eve you could say drones offer the same role. I also remember seeing the smallest ship in starwars fly into the bridge of the larger ship (super star destroyer) and disabling it/killed it. And which ships blew up its deflector shield generators? Oh right, the small ones. Your argument holds no water and doesnt even follow most scifi movies/shows. You are just trying to make something up that suits your argument.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16453
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 21:30:36 -
[21] - Quote
Shrike Crendraven wrote:Bigger and more expensive ships are meant to be better in every aspect, yes. One good thing about eve is that the balance is about the money. The more u pay, the better stuff u get.
I'd say cars are a good analogy - sure u can drive a dacia duster - its a good car, but a range rover thats priced around 100.000+ eur *is* better in each and every aspect. Why isnt everyone driving a range rover then??? Those dumb people!! :D See my point?
BS should require a significant party of smaller ships to defeat - lets say 3-5 cruisers. (currently one cruiser can pretty much destroy a battleship, isnt it wrong?)
The price should be a barrier so not everyone can buy and fly one - i dont really see any problems. Imaging BS hulls for 15bil apiece. Creditcard warriors wont care, gankers wil be supperhappy to organize a bs-ganking party, finally whoever gets a BS will be happy as they get more firepower and "relative" (;-)) safety.
It really does not have to be "fair". Please adjust the price so the loss of one can really hurt. And give them the power they lack.
That was the thought process behind titans and supers, last year we hit 20,000 of them.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Valkin Mordirc
1302
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 21:31:12 -
[22] - Quote
OP is obviously trolling at this point. That or he's just an idiot likely a mix of both.
#DeleteTheWeak
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NightmareX
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
662
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 23:07:27 -
[23] - Quote
I'm a person who use Battleships ALOT. And i can say after using Battleships since 2005 that they are awesome if you use them correctly and knows what you are doing.
I have several videos where i use Battleships aswell. Expecting to see a Battleship perform well by slapping on some random stuffs on a Battleship and go around with it not knowing what you are doing with it, wont get you far.
Here you have 3 videos that i have made through the last years where i mainly use Battleships.
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i58srJMfrfM
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u2YSu0ugts
3. This one is special considering this was done in high sec: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-_61zfTE8
If you feel that you don't know enough about Battleships, you can ask me, because i know everything about them.
Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:
1: Asteroid Madness
2: Clash of the Empires
3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
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Bastion Arzi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
223
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 10:18:54 -
[24] - Quote
Shrike Crendraven wrote:BS should require a significant party of smaller ships to defeat - lets say 3-5 cruisers. (currently one cruiser can pretty much destroy a battleship, isnt it wrong?)
i think this is wrong as well. take a pvp fit t1 bs and a pvp fit t1 cruiser, id still say the bs would win. your looking at 20-30k ehp for standard cruiser iirc. wheras a bs ur looking at several times that. not to mention several times the damage. the only problem is application. but you never said anythign about that or how your test would be carried out. you just made a blanket statement that a cruiser acn beat a bs.
i would like to ask whoch cruiser vs which bs and what fits are they using and what are the circumstances. eg is the cruiser under the bs guns from the start? or do they satrt 50km from each other. etc. with certain fits the vargur (yes i know its t2) will hit cruiser <15km with relative ease. Im sure t1 bs can pull of the same thing with certain fit.
so no a cruiser cannot destory a bs 1on 1 where no failfit is involved or pvp vs pve fit. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2071
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 10:23:43 -
[25] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:No frigate is going to tackle a properly fit Megathron on it's own.
No Frigate isn't going to even touch a properly fitted Barghest or Raven.
No frigate will take down a Rattler Geddon or Domi.
I'm really getting tired of these Battleships sux ccpls fix threads
aa not really true.
Several AB frigates can easily tackle those battleships, and if they can kill the drones (easy on all but the geddon and domi) they can simply hold it almost forever. The easiest ones on your list are the bharghest and raven. They have NOTHING against a well fit and used frigate.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16456
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 10:49:17 -
[26] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:[ Several AB frigates can easily tackle those battleships, and if they can kill the drones (easy on all but the geddon and domi) they can simply hold it almost forever. The easiest ones on your list are the bharghest and raven. They have NOTHING against a well fit and used frigate....
Cant tell if if you believe this or you are trying to get more frigates to leap into your ravens waiting maw.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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big miker
Rifterlings The WeHurt Initiative
335
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 10:55:36 -
[27] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Do not buff me.
Buff me
Latest video: Ferocious 6.0 Nano battleships / maruaders
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 10:57:56 -
[28] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:I'm a person who use Battleships ALOT. And i can say after using Battleships since 2005 that they are awesome if you use them correctly and knows what you are doing. I have several videos where i use Battleships aswell. Expecting to see a Battleship perform well by slapping on some random stuffs on a Battleship and go around with it not knowing what you are doing with it, wont get you far. Here you have 3 videos that i have made through the last years where i mainly use Battleships. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i58srJMfrfM2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u2YSu0ugts3. This one is special considering this was done in high sec: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-_61zfTE8If you feel that you don't know enough about Battleships, you can ask me, because i know everything about them.
Does this include Marauders?
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Valkin Mordirc
1308
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Posted - 2015.07.29 11:15:48 -
[29] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
aa not really true.
Several AB frigates can easily tackle those battleships, and if they can kill the drones (easy on all but the geddon and domi) they can simply hold it almost forever. The easiest ones on your list are the bharghest and raven. They have NOTHING against a well fit and used frigate.
The problem with battleship arises from them losing 50% of their mobility not long ago, but not gaining anything in return. THere is very very few reasons to bring a battleships instead of a T3 cruiser.
Small adjustments would be enough. For example, slighly larger scan resolution, slighly alrger lock range so they coudl use MJD offensively.. etc...
The Barghest can fit two webs/ TP's, plus Neut and RHML with a velocity bonus what do mean it can't kill a frigate?
#DeleteTheWeak
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Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
92
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 11:25:40 -
[30] - Quote
Even a Ab Frigate can easily be capped out by 1 heavy nuet. So yes even if the battleship can not kill the friagate it can safely disengage. |
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
905
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 11:29:28 -
[31] - Quote
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:Even a Ab Frigate can easily be capped out by 1 heavy nuet. So yes even if the battleship can not kill the friagate it can safely disengage.
Cap Booster for the win... Also who uses AF's anymore lol T3 destroyers all day...
No Worries
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Bastion Arzi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
223
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 11:36:09 -
[32] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: The Barghest can fit two webs/ TP's, plus Neut and RHML with a velocity bonus what do mean it can't kill a frigate?
not sure the heavies will do much damage to a frig. the neut should stop him long enough to get out if ur already aligned and spamming warp tho.
anyway you'd only run if he has friends coming which is usually the case yes but arent we talking about a single frig taking on a single bs?
i dont think given two properly fit ships that its likely that the frig will win. |
Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
92
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 11:37:03 -
[33] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Gh0stBust3rs wrote:Even a Ab Frigate can easily be capped out by 1 heavy nuet. So yes even if the battleship can not kill the friagate it can safely disengage. Cap Booster for the win... Also who uses AF's anymore lol T3 destroyers all day...
Someone pointed out AB fit frigates. Also yes cap boosters are fine and dandy but they have to reload as well. If your pointing prop modding and tanking your going to get capped out at some point. |
Bastion Arzi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
223
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 11:39:30 -
[34] - Quote
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:Gh0stBust3rs wrote:Even a Ab Frigate can easily be capped out by 1 heavy nuet. So yes even if the battleship can not kill the friagate it can safely disengage. Cap Booster for the win... Also who uses AF's anymore lol T3 destroyers all day... Someone pointed out AB fit frigates. Also yes cap boosters are fine and dandy but they have to reload as well. If your pointing prop modding and tanking your going to get capped out at some point.
not to mention dealing with the drones (whilst webbed and neuted as mentioned) |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
905
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 11:40:59 -
[35] - Quote
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:Gh0stBust3rs wrote:Even a Ab Frigate can easily be capped out by 1 heavy nuet. So yes even if the battleship can not kill the friagate it can safely disengage. Cap Booster for the win... Also who uses AF's anymore lol T3 destroyers all day... Someone pointed out AB fit frigates. Also yes cap boosters are fine and dandy but they have to reload as well. If your pointing prop modding and tanking your going to get capped out at some point.
Same goes for the BS... (running the neut etc)
I know we're talking solo here, but 90% of the time if a BS is tied down for more than a few mins... its in trouble.
Bastion Arzi wrote: not to mention dealing with the drones (whilst webbed and neuted as mentioned)
AF's will have issues i dont disagree, but there are plenty of frigs, and T3 destroyers that could handle it.
(AF's need some major love)
No Worries
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Bastion Arzi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
223
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 12:12:42 -
[36] - Quote
somebody test this with me. i wont believe it till i see it.
frig vs bs come on
ill pay for ur frig |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1282
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 12:16:23 -
[37] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:somebody test this with me. i wont believe it till i see it.
frig vs bs come on
ill pay for ur frig
i tested it against a raven in my vengeance, the raven couldnt kill me but i also couldnt break the raven, i held it pointed for a long time
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
158
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 12:24:58 -
[38] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:somebody test this with me. i wont believe it till i see it.
frig vs bs come on
ill pay for ur frig i tested it against a raven in my vengeance, the raven couldnt kill me but i also couldnt break the raven, i held it pointed for a long time
How was the Raven fit? What missiles was he firing? Did you kill all of his drones? Was he managing his drones well if you were killing them?
Lots to factor in. |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
905
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 12:27:40 -
[39] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:somebody test this with me. i wont believe it till i see it.
frig vs bs come on
ill pay for ur frig i tested it against a raven in my vengeance, the raven couldnt kill me but i also couldnt break the raven, i held it pointed for a long time How was the Raven fit? What missiles was he firing? Did you kill all of his drones? Was he managing his drones well if you were killing them? Lots to factor in.
Exactly... Fit a BS to fight frigs... Fit a Frig to fight BS's... Random encounter?...
So many factors... too many factors!
No Worries
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Bastion Arzi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
223
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 12:34:14 -
[40] - Quote
yeah i was thinking application mega. lel |
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Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
158
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 12:40:20 -
[41] - Quote
One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut. |
Bastion Arzi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
223
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 12:48:44 -
[42] - Quote
no argument here |
Bastion Arzi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
223
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 12:51:23 -
[43] - Quote
id like to see an example of a cruiser (that is not a gila/faction/t2) that can take on a bs t1 vs t1 |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
158
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:00:00 -
[44] - Quote
Only way i could see it happening would be if the T1 BS in question had no web/heavy neut. That way you could either hug it tight with an active tanked brawler or kite it assuming the BS had short ranged weaponry.
Both scenarios require bad fits on the Battleships side with no appreciation for covering your weaknesses. |
Bastion Arzi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
223
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:04:08 -
[45] - Quote
my point exactly. tyvm |
Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
92
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:05:47 -
[46] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut. . That is also an insanely specialized fit. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
158
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:12:23 -
[47] - Quote
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:Switch Savage wrote:One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut. . That is also an insanely specialized fit.
Honestly i wish it was specialised but its not. Sadly its not its just a variant of the old pre-nerf fit everyone used with a Aux power core to make it fit. Check my killboard if you want to check it. Anyway going off topic but other T3D active fits are just as dangerous to a BS with only one utility neut and not enough webs to make main guns apply well. |
Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
92
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:Gh0stBust3rs wrote:Switch Savage wrote:One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut. . That is also an insanely specialized fit. Honestly i wish it was specialised but its not. Sadly its not its just a variant of the old pre-nerf fit everyone used with a Aux power core to make it fit. Check my killboard if you want to check it. Anyway going off topic but other T3D active fits are just as dangerous to a BS with only one utility neut and not enough webs to make main guns apply well.
Most people arent going to be running a full set of crystals and a ogb. Hell a fair amount of roams still dont bring proper boosters. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
158
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:25:44 -
[49] - Quote
I am just speaking worst case scenario which is important. Remove links and its still a huge threat, remove implants/drugs and your looking at ISK poor or new pvpers which will never be an issue for a competent BS pilot. |
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
143
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:28:25 -
[50] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut.
A single heavy neut can **** up a cap boosting t3 dessie, assuming you make him run his rep/sb some, which, really, you should be able to unless your BS had no business going in space solo (i assume we talking about solo BS, otherwise it's kinda a moot point) |
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Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
159
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:33:26 -
[51] - Quote
When you factor in a small cap boosters reload time as well as a NOS it is more than reasonable to say that a T3D can pin a BS with only one heavy neut for a very long time. Like you say it depends entirely on the amount of damage you are taking and thus the battleship you are up against.
Edit: Because you edited your argument. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
446
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:39:10 -
[52] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut.
The links and sig reduction would be cause of concern.. but i mean what can really kill a linked, HG crystal, BP'd anything without a blob? Id consider fighting you in my application fit typhoon.. but id be more confident in my FI phoon. But thats cause i gets 2 neuts :)
Ive killed linked stuff before, but you throw in the best of the best at a fit, its going to be monsterous regardless of what it is. Hell i see dead terrorist bads fly around in linked breachers all the time. Although i do enjoy shooting their links when they are in the middle of a fight.
Using the holy grail of cancer fits doesnt mean BS are weak either. No offense ofc. But you are probably using svipul because its still broken and continues to scale exceedingly well with links, crystals, drugs.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
159
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:45:02 -
[53] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Switch Savage wrote:One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut. The links and sig reduction would be cause of concern.. but i mean what can really kill a linked, HG crystal, BP'd anything without a blob? Id consider fighting you in my application fit typhoon.. but id be more confident in my FI phoon. But thats cause i gets 2 neuts :) Ive killed linked stuff before, but you throw in the best of the best at a fit, its going to be monsterous regardless of what it is. Hell i see dead terrorist bads fly around in linked breachers all the time. Although i do enjoy shooting their links when they are in the middle of a fight. Using the holy grail of cancer fits doesnt mean BS are weak either. No offense ofc. But you are probably using svipul because its still broken and continues to scale exceedingly well with links, crystals, drugs.
I was merely pointing out a new concern for the solo BS pilot who rely on just one Heavy neut. I also never said BS were weak as a result of this I was simply pointing out an issue they face in the current meta.
Only just started flying Svipuls at the start of this month and have been enjoying it thus far (hard not to with how OP they are).
|
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
143
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:47:13 -
[54] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:When you factor in a small cap boosters reload time as well as a NOS it is more than reasonable to say that a T3D can pin a BS with only one heavy neut for a very long time. Like you say it depends entirely on the amount of damage you are taking and thus the battleship you are up against.
Edit: Because you edited your argument.
well, we're talking about a BS that can apply no damage to a t3d, so something with long range weaps, no web, no missiles, no drones... why would anyone go solo in something like that
a frig would be just as capable at pinning down such a bs |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
446
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:51:22 -
[55] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Switch Savage wrote:One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut. The links and sig reduction would be cause of concern.. but i mean what can really kill a linked, HG crystal, BP'd anything without a blob? Id consider fighting you in my application fit typhoon.. but id be more confident in my FI phoon. But thats cause i gets 2 neuts :) Ive killed linked stuff before, but you throw in the best of the best at a fit, its going to be monsterous regardless of what it is. Hell i see dead terrorist bads fly around in linked breachers all the time. Although i do enjoy shooting their links when they are in the middle of a fight. Using the holy grail of cancer fits doesnt mean BS are weak either. No offense ofc. But you are probably using svipul because its still broken and continues to scale exceedingly well with links, crystals, drugs. I was merely pointing out a new concern for the solo BS pilot who rely on just one Heavy neut. I also never said BS were weak as a result of this I was simply pointing out an issue they face in the current meta. Only just started flying Svipuls at the start of this month and have been enjoying it thus far (hard not to with how OP they are).
Fair enough. However, its not only a solo BS issue. That same svipul would also ruin most BC, cruisers, destroyers and other frigs/t3ds in solo scenarios as well.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
|
NightmareX
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
662
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 14:02:29 -
[56] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:NightmareX wrote:I'm a person who use Battleships ALOT. And i can say after using Battleships since 2005 that they are awesome if you use them correctly and knows what you are doing. I have several videos where i use Battleships aswell. Expecting to see a Battleship perform well by slapping on some random stuffs on a Battleship and go around with it not knowing what you are doing with it, wont get you far. Here you have 3 videos that i have made through the last years where i mainly use Battleships. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i58srJMfrfM2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u2YSu0ugts3. This one is special considering this was done in high sec: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-_61zfTE8If you feel that you don't know enough about Battleships, you can ask me, because i know everything about them. Does this include Marauders? I haven't used Marauders in any PVP yet. I had one Kronos ready to be used for PVP, but it died .
But i believe Marauders should be really good aswell. Just ask 'big miker' about that.
Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:
1: Asteroid Madness
2: Clash of the Empires
3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
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Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
159
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 14:06:07 -
[57] - Quote
Doctor Knuckles wrote:Switch Savage wrote:When you factor in a small cap boosters reload time as well as a NOS it is more than reasonable to say that a T3D can pin a BS with only one heavy neut for a very long time. Like you say it depends entirely on the amount of damage you are taking and thus the battleship you are up against.
Edit: Because you edited your argument. well, we're talking about a BS that can apply no damage to a t3d, so something with long range weaps, no web, no missiles, no drones... why would anyone go solo in something like that a frig would be just as capable at pinning down such a bs
Agree on all points but I think the rise of T3Ds in the current meta does hurt solo BS to a greater extent than T2 Frigs. The huge resist profiles, excellent active tanks and low sigs/solid speeds pose a far greater threat to a solo BS pilot than any T1 or T2 frig ever could. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
159
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 14:10:12 -
[58] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Switch Savage wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Switch Savage wrote:One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut. The links and sig reduction would be cause of concern.. but i mean what can really kill a linked, HG crystal, BP'd anything without a blob? Id consider fighting you in my application fit typhoon.. but id be more confident in my FI phoon. But thats cause i gets 2 neuts :) Ive killed linked stuff before, but you throw in the best of the best at a fit, its going to be monsterous regardless of what it is. Hell i see dead terrorist bads fly around in linked breachers all the time. Although i do enjoy shooting their links when they are in the middle of a fight. Using the holy grail of cancer fits doesnt mean BS are weak either. No offense ofc. But you are probably using svipul because its still broken and continues to scale exceedingly well with links, crystals, drugs. I was merely pointing out a new concern for the solo BS pilot who rely on just one Heavy neut. I also never said BS were weak as a result of this I was simply pointing out an issue they face in the current meta. Only just started flying Svipuls at the start of this month and have been enjoying it thus far (hard not to with how OP they are). Fair enough. However, its not only a solo BS issue. That same svipul would also ruin most BC, cruisers, destroyers and other frigs/t3ds in solo scenarios as well.
Agreed my point being its another thing to ensure your BS is capable of dealing with when undocking with no support. Even in the best case scenario they can be tricky blighters to drop quickly if they are fit and flown well. Imo the addition of them into the meta poses one of the greatest threats to solo BS pvp thus far in New Eden. |
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
144
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 14:36:16 -
[59] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:Doctor Knuckles wrote:Switch Savage wrote:When you factor in a small cap boosters reload time as well as a NOS it is more than reasonable to say that a T3D can pin a BS with only one heavy neut for a very long time. Like you say it depends entirely on the amount of damage you are taking and thus the battleship you are up against.
Edit: Because you edited your argument. well, we're talking about a BS that can apply no damage to a t3d, so something with long range weaps, no web, no missiles, no drones... why would anyone go solo in something like that a frig would be just as capable at pinning down such a bs Agree on all points but I think the rise of T3Ds in the current meta does hurt solo BS to a greater extent than T2 Frigs. The huge resist profiles, excellent active tanks and low sigs/solid speeds pose a far greater threat to a solo BS pilot than any T1 or T2 frig ever could.
ah well, T3Ds meta is hurting everything really, it completely obliterated any sense in undocking a AF, they can put the hurt on a lot of cruisers, they can murder frig gangs without breaking a sweat, t1 dessies are the stuff of ancient myths by now
I would actually argue BS is the class less hurt next to BCs... which are actually pretty great at killing t3ds |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
160
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 14:43:58 -
[60] - Quote
Hah I have to agree there i guess, that's quite a funny way to look at it. |
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
905
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 15:09:17 -
[61] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote: Imo the addition of them into the meta poses one of the greatest threats to solo BS pvp thus far in New Eden. That arguments come up before. Until the addition of the MJD you could kite Heavy neuts and webs.
No Worries
|
Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
161
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 15:34:40 -
[62] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Switch Savage wrote: Imo the addition of them into the meta poses one of the greatest threats to solo BS pvp thus far in New Eden. That arguments come up before. Until the addition of the MJD you could kite Heavy neuts and webs.
Well technically you still can :p. You just run the risk of them sailing off into the sunset like the beautiful over sized hulks of metal they are. |
Alric Rosenthal
Vetus Inmortales
126
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 23:31:11 -
[63] - Quote
Shrike Crendraven wrote:I am well aware that as new player i know little about the current balance, but, for me, the battleship is the most disappoint ship type in eve.
Starting in the common sense area(or as much common sense as we can predict the technology in 1000s years):
Why are battleship so big with so few tech systems onboard?
Given a cruiser can have X slots, a battleship that is 5x the size (or more), should have slightly more equipment slots than the "30% more than cruiser"....
Difference in armor, hull, shield is not staggering either. Not to mention some of the t3 cruiser can get several times over effectiove hitpoints of a battleship.
Weapons. Are a.... Sad joke? Given Eve balance, Han Solo could have solo'd (har har) the imperial dreadnought/battleship instead of running away from it.
I know that precariously constructed and heavily patched balance is hard to keep - but please for the love of god give each battleship 5ish more high-slots (WAIT!) that can fit only *small* guns. So it adds very little to the effective high end pve/pvp dmg, BUT fixes the horrible unfairness of frig/destroyer/cruiser vs battleship fights.
Can u imagine the engineers of current battleships - while designing its battle potential.
- "So this frigate goes under our guns and slowly kills us, while keeping us unable to move fast or jump...." - "And it slowly kills us? yes, thats the plan, junior! Now go fetch those blueprints to the factory!"
Utility slots - I guess that more than half a kilometer of high tech ship is hardly enough space to fit some (obvious?!) electronic warfare toys.... I mean, really, every single one should have a tractor beam, target painter, scrambler and a web. Dedicated slots, or just built in t2ish version(the hull has requirements, add more requirements to fly it)
Yes i know, balance. You put yourself in a tough position, and its very hard to fix battleships without completely destroying the "game-of-cruisers".
Increase the price, 5times, 10 times... Add some little gun slots, give each BS 2-3 more utility slots. Please.
No way to balance this but the OP does make a point. A battleship is a large asset that gives no specific advantage in any situation. Most T3s will have comparable EHP and take less damage due to their smaller signature. There are some instances where a particular bonused battleship will do well. Bhaalgorn, Bhaalgorn lite, and others but you still sacrifice mobility and tank for the ability. Before you going totting how much EHP you can load your Navy Apoc or Bhaalgorn with just realise that any battleship will be hit harder and go down faster than a comparable T3 after reduction of damage caused by the smaller signature and often better resists of the T3. Battleships are damage sponges.
Giving battleships more high slots to fit undersized guns will not maintain the status quo of balance. In doing so you could potentially add 150 - 350 damage to these ships. Do not confuse small guns with point defenses. We already have a type of point defense system in the game, defender missiles. No one uses them because they currently take up a high slot. CCP could easily create a new slot category specifically for battleships and call it point defence systems. Say battleships get four PD slots each. These mods would require ammo or power per cycle and defend against a portion of a single direct damage source type. These would "intercept" a portion of the damage from that source type up to a certain amount per cycle or a certain number of "strikes" per cycle. You can't target anything with them. You can't do damage with them. They can only be used against a specific type of damage source. I am not talking EM, HEAT, KIN, EX. I am talking lasers, missiles, hybrids, and projectile weapons.
Perhaps battleships gets 4 point defence slots. This is there special deal. Deflector Arrays, Inertia Nets, Defender Missiles, etc. Just an idea. Do with it what you will.
GÇ£War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.GÇ¥
- William Tecumseh Sherman |
Just Hit Undock
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16459
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 01:39:34 -
[64] - Quote
Alric Rosenthal wrote:
No way to balance this but the OP does make a point. A battleship is a large asset that gives no specific advantage in any situation. Most T3s will have comparable EHP and take less damage due to their smaller signature. There are some instances where a particular bonused battleship will do well. Bhaalgorn, Bhaalgorn lite, and others but you still sacrifice mobility and tank for the ability. Before you going totting how much EHP you can load your Navy Apoc or Bhaalgorn with just realise that any battleship will be hit harder and go down faster than a comparable T3 after reduction of damage caused by the smaller signature and often better resists of the T3. Battleships are damage sponges.
Giving battleships more high slots to fit undersized guns will not maintain the status quo of balance. In doing so you could potentially add 150 - 350 damage to these ships. Do not confuse small guns with point defenses. We already have a type of point defense system in the game, defender missiles. No one uses them because they currently take up a high slot. CCP could easily create a new slot category specifically for battleships and call it point defence systems. Say battleships get four PD slots each. These mods would require ammo or power per cycle and defend against a portion of a single direct damage source type. These would "intercept" a portion of the damage from that source type up to a certain amount per cycle or a certain number of "strikes" per cycle. You can't target anything with them. You can't do damage with them. They can only be used against a specific type of damage source. I am not talking EM, HEAT, KIN, EX. I am talking lasers, missiles, hybrids, and projectile weapons.
Perhaps battleships gets 4 point defence slots. This is their special deal. Deflector Arrays, Inertia Nets, Defender Missiles, etc. Just an idea. Do with it what you will.
The answer is to nerf T3 cruisers down to the level of cruisers.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
61
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 02:33:06 -
[65] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Alric Rosenthal wrote:
No way to balance this but the OP does make a point. A battleship is a large asset that gives no specific advantage in any situation. Most T3s will have comparable EHP and take less damage due to their smaller signature. There are some instances where a particular bonused battleship will do well. Bhaalgorn, Bhaalgorn lite, and others but you still sacrifice mobility and tank for the ability. Before you going totting how much EHP you can load your Navy Apoc or Bhaalgorn with just realise that any battleship will be hit harder and go down faster than a comparable T3 after reduction of damage caused by the smaller signature and often better resists of the T3. Battleships are damage sponges.
Giving battleships more high slots to fit undersized guns will not maintain the status quo of balance. In doing so you could potentially add 150 - 350 damage to these ships. Do not confuse small guns with point defenses. We already have a type of point defense system in the game, defender missiles. No one uses them because they currently take up a high slot. CCP could easily create a new slot category specifically for battleships and call it point defence systems. Say battleships get four PD slots each. These mods would require ammo or power per cycle and defend against a portion of a single direct damage source type. These would "intercept" a portion of the damage from that source type up to a certain amount per cycle or a certain number of "strikes" per cycle. You can't target anything with them. You can't do damage with them. They can only be used against a specific type of damage source. I am not talking EM, HEAT, KIN, EX. I am talking lasers, missiles, hybrids, and projectile weapons.
Perhaps battleships gets 4 point defence slots. This is their special deal. Deflector Arrays, Inertia Nets, Defender Missiles, etc. Just an idea. Do with it what you will.
The answer is to nerf T3 cruisers down to the level of cruisers.
Is Nerf T3, Nerf T3, Nerf T3 all you ever think about? Why don't to try to use your imagination for a change and come up with a proper balancing mechanism for BSs like Mr. Rosenthal did. You think if T3Cs get nerfed down to your satisfaction that BSs will miraculously improve? News flash for you baltec1, IT WON'T. Instead your chant will just change from "nerf T3Cs down to cruiser ehp" into "nerf HACs down to T1 Cruisers ehp".
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16459
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 02:49:06 -
[66] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
Is Nerf T3, Nerf T3, Nerf T3 all you ever think about? Why don't to try to use your imagination for a change and come up with a proper balancing mechanism for BSs like Mr. Rosenthal did. You think if T3Cs get nerfed down to your satisfaction that BSs will miraculously improve? News flash for you baltec1, IT WON'T. Instead your chant will just change from "nerf T3Cs down to cruiser ehp" into "nerf HACs down to T1 Cruisers ehp".
T3 invalidate or heavily encroach upon 57 ships.
Nerfing 4 ships to help 57 ships become much more viable to use is a no brainer especially when said 4 ships are are overpowered as t3 cruisers are.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 03:09:36 -
[67] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:
Is Nerf T3, Nerf T3, Nerf T3 all you ever think about? Why don't to try to use your imagination for a change and come up with a proper balancing mechanism for BSs like Mr. Rosenthal did. You think if T3Cs get nerfed down to your satisfaction that BSs will miraculously improve? News flash for you baltec1, IT WON'T. Instead your chant will just change from "nerf T3Cs down to cruiser ehp" into "nerf HACs down to T1 Cruisers ehp".
T3 invalidate or heavily encroach upon 57 ships. Nerfing 4 ships to help 57 ships become much more viable to use is a no brainer especially when said 4 ships are are overpowered as t3 cruisers are.
If you were the only one saying that T3Cs needed a nerf, I would never accept it. But apparently there are many others (unbiased) who feel that T3Cs in their current state are OP, so I've come to accept the fact that they'll eventually get nerfed. To what extent, should be open for discussion (one that I hope you're not able to participate in).
The question is what's next for BSs? I'm waiting to hear some productive feedback from you on the rebalancing of the BSs cause I'm looking into them and also I hear you're the man when it comes to BSs. But so far, all I ever hear from you is Nerf T3s, etc, etc,............
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16459
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 03:30:15 -
[68] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:baltec1 wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:
Is Nerf T3, Nerf T3, Nerf T3 all you ever think about? Why don't to try to use your imagination for a change and come up with a proper balancing mechanism for BSs like Mr. Rosenthal did. You think if T3Cs get nerfed down to your satisfaction that BSs will miraculously improve? News flash for you baltec1, IT WON'T. Instead your chant will just change from "nerf T3Cs down to cruiser ehp" into "nerf HACs down to T1 Cruisers ehp".
T3 invalidate or heavily encroach upon 57 ships. Nerfing 4 ships to help 57 ships become much more viable to use is a no brainer especially when said 4 ships are are overpowered as t3 cruisers are. If you were the only one saying that T3Cs needed a nerf, I would never accept it. But apparently there are many others (unbiased) who feel that T3Cs in their current state are OP, so I've come to accept the fact that they'll eventually get nerfed. To what extent, should be open for discussion (one that I hope you're not able to participate in). The question is what's next for BSs? I'm waiting to hear some productive feedback from you on the rebalancing of the BSs cause I'm looking into them and also I hear you're the man when it comes to BSs. But so far, all I ever hear from you is Nerf T3s, etc, etc,............
They don't need one.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 04:02:56 -
[69] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:baltec1 wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:
Is Nerf T3, Nerf T3, Nerf T3 all you ever think about? Why don't to try to use your imagination for a change and come up with a proper balancing mechanism for BSs like Mr. Rosenthal did. You think if T3Cs get nerfed down to your satisfaction that BSs will miraculously improve? News flash for you baltec1, IT WON'T. Instead your chant will just change from "nerf T3Cs down to cruiser ehp" into "nerf HACs down to T1 Cruisers ehp".
T3 invalidate or heavily encroach upon 57 ships. Nerfing 4 ships to help 57 ships become much more viable to use is a no brainer especially when said 4 ships are are overpowered as t3 cruisers are. If you were the only one saying that T3Cs needed a nerf, I would never accept it. But apparently there are many others (unbiased) who feel that T3Cs in their current state are OP, so I've come to accept the fact that they'll eventually get nerfed. To what extent, should be open for discussion (one that I hope you're not able to participate in). The question is what's next for BSs? I'm waiting to hear some productive feedback from you on the rebalancing of the BSs cause I'm looking into them and also I hear you're the man when it comes to BSs. But so far, all I ever hear from you is Nerf T3s, etc, etc,............ They don't need one.
Only those who rides in BSs all the time in Blobs would think this way, but I wonder how would the majority agree with this logic?
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Daerrol
Krieger Industries Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
212
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 05:04:19 -
[70] - Quote
I have never had issues with any of Napoc apoc abandon or bhaalgorn that I fly in PPP from solo to medium gang with caps |
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Valkin Mordirc
1318
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 05:23:07 -
[71] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
Only those who rides in BSs all the time in Blobs would think this way, but I wonder how would the majority agree with this logic?
I personally feel most BS need tweaked. Not rebalanced. Minor fixes to minor problems.
The T3's are a major problem that need a major fix.
#DeleteTheWeak
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16462
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 09:21:06 -
[72] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
Only those who rides in BSs all the time in Blobs would think this way, but I wonder how would the majority agree with this logic?
What makes you think I only fly them in blobs? I have spent the last few weeks roaming around solo or in 10 man Corp roams in a mage and I am looking at getting a few geddons and ravens soon for solo work.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 13:37:15 -
[73] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:
Only those who rides in BSs all the time in Blobs would think this way, but I wonder how would the majority agree with this logic?
What makes you think I only fly them in blobs? I have spent the last few weeks roaming around solo or in 10 man Corp roams in a mega and I am looking at getting a few geddons and ravens soon for solo work. There is nothing biased in what I say, if the mega was as overpowered as the T3s are I would calling for nerfs on that too.
Yea, it's starting to look that way since people are continuing to agree with you. If this really is the case with T3Cs, then someone needs to make a major thread regarding their rebalance ASAP, so CCP get can their act together and fix them. CCP is making matters worst by putting this off.
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
448
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 13:38:54 -
[74] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:
Only those who rides in BSs all the time in Blobs would think this way, but I wonder how would the majority agree with this logic?
I personally feel most BS need tweaked. Not rebalanced. Minor fixes to minor problems. The T3's are a major problem that need a major fix.
This. Minor tweaks to BS is all they need. T3C get the nerf hammer and all would be well. Look at the pest, a minor RoF tweak and its improved it enough to be semi-viable. I still am not a huge fan, since its still a little unfocused in design, but there are fits that work better now.
Id say another thing that needs rebalance before we see BS fleets again are bombs. Id say thats almost just as important as nerfing t3c.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1276
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 13:51:57 -
[75] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:baltec1 wrote:Alric Rosenthal wrote:
No way to balance this but the OP does make a point. A battleship is a large asset that gives no specific advantage in any situation. Most T3s will have comparable EHP and take less damage due to their smaller signature. There are some instances where a particular bonused battleship will do well. Bhaalgorn, Bhaalgorn lite, and others but you still sacrifice mobility and tank for the ability. Before you going totting how much EHP you can load your Navy Apoc or Bhaalgorn with just realise that any battleship will be hit harder and go down faster than a comparable T3 after reduction of damage caused by the smaller signature and often better resists of the T3. Battleships are damage sponges.
Giving battleships more high slots to fit undersized guns will not maintain the status quo of balance. In doing so you could potentially add 150 - 350 damage to these ships. Do not confuse small guns with point defenses. We already have a type of point defense system in the game, defender missiles. No one uses them because they currently take up a high slot. CCP could easily create a new slot category specifically for battleships and call it point defence systems. Say battleships get four PD slots each. These mods would require ammo or power per cycle and defend against a portion of a single direct damage source type. These would "intercept" a portion of the damage from that source type up to a certain amount per cycle or a certain number of "strikes" per cycle. You can't target anything with them. You can't do damage with them. They can only be used against a specific type of damage source. I am not talking EM, HEAT, KIN, EX. I am talking lasers, missiles, hybrids, and projectile weapons.
Perhaps battleships gets 4 point defence slots. This is their special deal. Deflector Arrays, Inertia Nets, Defender Missiles, etc. Just an idea. Do with it what you will.
The answer is to nerf T3 cruisers down to the level of cruisers. Is Nerf T3, Nerf T3, Nerf T3 all you ever think about? Why don't to try to use your imagination for a change and come up with a proper balancing mechanism for BSs like Mr. Rosenthal did. You think if T3Cs get nerfed down to your satisfaction that BSs will miraculously improve? News flash for you baltec1, IT WON'T. Instead your chant will just change from "nerf T3Cs down to cruiser ehp" into "nerf HACs down to T1 Cruisers ehp".
He thinks about me in that commercial on the beach with my horse. Maybe a little too much if you ask me. Ask him the color of my bikini - he'll just blurt it out because he thinks of me so often.
He doesn't come up with a proper balancing idea because he's flown them enough to understand they aren't in a bad spot as far as balance goes. He's been flying them successfully for years. (that's years as in multiple). He's either just that totally freaking awesome and doesn't realize it OR he's right and other ships need some CCP love more desperately.
As much as Baltec would like me to say 'he's just that much better than thousands of other players' I'm going to pick the lesser of two evils and just say that he's right - BS are in an good spot right now.
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Mira Chieve
Star Kingdom of Manticore
4
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 16:26:45 -
[76] - Quote
I do not think battleships to be worthless.
Just for fun I fit a Maelstrom with 8 small turrets. It melts frigate gangs with ease. Extremely fun to see the little buggers trying to get under your guns get melted by 600 dps of fully applied epicness.
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Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
92
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 16:26:57 -
[77] - Quote
T3 Cruisers are just too flexible for their own good.
So your telling me I can have 150k ehp(Low End) Do 400+ dps to 90km(low end again) and have a sig of only 100m and with my ab running completely negate 80% of your dps? HML tengus got nerfed initially for a reason.
Nothing Op about that at all.
HML tengus got nerfed initially for a reason. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
66
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 02:43:38 -
[78] - Quote
Mira Chieve wrote:I do not think battleships to be worthless.
Just for fun I fit a Maelstrom with 8 small turrets. It melts frigate gangs with ease. Extremely fun to see the little buggers trying to get under your guns get melted by 600 dps of fully applied epicness.
LOL, soo funny.
|
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
66
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 02:57:16 -
[79] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:
Only those who rides in BSs all the time in Blobs would think this way, but I wonder how would the majority agree with this logic?
I personally feel most BS need tweaked. Not rebalanced. Minor fixes to minor problems. The T3's are a major problem that need a major fix. This. Minor tweaks to BS is all they need. T3C get the nerf hammer and all would be well. Look at the pest, a minor RoF tweak and its improved it enough to be semi-viable. I still am not a huge fan, since its still a little unfocused in design, but there are fits that work better now. Id say another thing that needs rebalance before we see BS fleets again are bombs. Id say thats almost just as important as nerfing t3c.
I guess that clinches it then, the T3Cs are nerf bound. Now all that's left is for CCP to begin the T3C dissection process and put them back to together correctly. The sooner CCP does this the better so the T3C users can get over their mourning periods and move on.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
773
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 03:27:58 -
[80] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:What makes you think I only fly them in blobs? I have spent the last few weeks roaming around solo or in 10 man Corp roams in a mega and I am looking at getting a few geddons and ravens soon for solo work. There is nothing biased in what I say, if the mega was as overpowered as the T3s are I would calling for nerfs on that too.
May I steer you to youtube and Suitonia's solo geddon? Should work nicely with your gang and you know I love the Raven, I'm just not fan of the rapid launcher madness but you should be fine whatever you choose to do.
Speaking of battleships, I just had to try out the Megathron myself and since I tried it once for pve - which turned out to be a terrible idea - I went to lowsec last fall with said Megathron, looking for a fight somewhere in Genesis.
Lot's of empty systems so I tried one of those besieged mordus sites - also a terrible idea - and I bailed with 33% structure and docked. I was giving up at this point and on my way back I got someone's interest, a navy augruor. He kept me interested long enough for two buddies of his to arrive and thought I would be an easy killmail. I kinda didn't rep that structure damage, so I was on fire the hole time. Minutes later I ganked the logi and 2x navy augruor. So you are right, the Megathron is awesome for solo roams if you avoid places like Huola or Amamake.
The Tengu wasn't nerfed, heavy missiles were. How dare missiles compete with other long range guns?? Must not happen.
In their finite wisdome CCP nerfed heavy missiles because people are too unbright to change their behavior. A people problem, not a mechanics problem. Now the not so long range missiles are barely able to poke someone if they even maange to get in to their destination in the first place.
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|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16466
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 04:33:37 -
[81] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:baltec1 wrote:What makes you think I only fly them in blobs? I have spent the last few weeks roaming around solo or in 10 man Corp roams in a mega and I am looking at getting a few geddons and ravens soon for solo work. There is nothing biased in what I say, if the mega was as overpowered as the T3s are I would calling for nerfs on that too. May I steer you to youtube and Suitonia's solo geddon? Should work nicely with your gang and you know I love the Raven, I'm just not fan of the rapid launcher madness but you should be fine whatever you choose to do. Speaking of battleships, I just had to try out the Megathron myself and since I tried it once for pve - which turned out to be a terrible idea - I went to lowsec last fall with said Megathron, looking for a fight somewhere in Genesis. Lot's of empty systems so I tried one of those besieged mordus sites - also a terrible idea - and I bailed with 33% structure and docked. I was giving up at this point and on my way back I got someone's interest, a navy augruor. He kept me interested long enough for two buddies of his to arrive and thought I would be an easy killmail. I kinda didn't rep that structure damage, so I was on fire the hole time. Minutes later I ganked the logi and 2x navy augruor. So you are right, the Megathron is awesome for solo roams if you avoid places like Huola or Amamake. The Tengu wasn't nerfed, heavy missiles were. How dare missiles compete with other long range guns?? Must not happen. In their finite wisdome CCP nerfed heavy missiles because people are too unbright to change their behavior. A people problem, not a mechanics problem. Now the not so long range missiles are barely able to poke someone if they even maange to get in to their destination in the first place.
I saw his video and his fit is close to what I came up with although I'm torn between either tank rigs or warp speed.
For people who want a crazy effective anti - frig/t3 destroyer then look at a rlml rattlesnake. It gets a bonus to all missiles
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
66
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 05:32:47 -
[82] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:baltec1 wrote:What makes you think I only fly them in blobs? I have spent the last few weeks roaming around solo or in 10 man Corp roams in a mega and I am looking at getting a few geddons and ravens soon for solo work. There is nothing biased in what I say, if the mega was as overpowered as the T3s are I would calling for nerfs on that too. May I steer you to youtube and Suitonia's solo geddon? Should work nicely with your gang and you know I love the Raven, I'm just not fan of the rapid launcher madness but you should be fine whatever you choose to do. Speaking of battleships, I just had to try out the Megathron myself and since I tried it once for pve - which turned out to be a terrible idea - I went to lowsec last fall with said Megathron, looking for a fight somewhere in Genesis. Lot's of empty systems so I tried one of those besieged mordus sites - also a terrible idea - and I bailed with 33% structure and docked. I was giving up at this point and on my way back I got someone's interest, a navy augruor. He kept me interested long enough for two buddies of his to arrive and thought I would be an easy killmail. I kinda didn't rep that structure damage, so I was on fire the hole time. Minutes later I ganked the logi and 2x navy augruor. So you are right, the Megathron is awesome for solo roams if you avoid places like Huola or Amamake. The Tengu wasn't nerfed, heavy missiles were. How dare missiles compete with other long range guns?? Must not happen. In their finite wisdome CCP nerfed heavy missiles because people are too unbright to change their behavior. A people problem, not a mechanics problem. Now the not so long range missiles are barely able to poke someone if they even maange to get in to their destination in the first place.
A Megathron huh. Wouldn't a Curse be able to kiil that? |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
66
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 05:36:49 -
[83] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:elitatwo wrote:baltec1 wrote:What makes you think I only fly them in blobs? I have spent the last few weeks roaming around solo or in 10 man Corp roams in a mega and I am looking at getting a few geddons and ravens soon for solo work. There is nothing biased in what I say, if the mega was as overpowered as the T3s are I would calling for nerfs on that too. May I steer you to youtube and Suitonia's solo geddon? Should work nicely with your gang and you know I love the Raven, I'm just not fan of the rapid launcher madness but you should be fine whatever you choose to do. Speaking of battleships, I just had to try out the Megathron myself and since I tried it once for pve - which turned out to be a terrible idea - I went to lowsec last fall with said Megathron, looking for a fight somewhere in Genesis. Lot's of empty systems so I tried one of those besieged mordus sites - also a terrible idea - and I bailed with 33% structure and docked. I was giving up at this point and on my way back I got someone's interest, a navy augruor. He kept me interested long enough for two buddies of his to arrive and thought I would be an easy killmail. I kinda didn't rep that structure damage, so I was on fire the hole time. Minutes later I ganked the logi and 2x navy augruor. So you are right, the Megathron is awesome for solo roams if you avoid places like Huola or Amamake. The Tengu wasn't nerfed, heavy missiles were. How dare missiles compete with other long range guns?? Must not happen. In their finite wisdome CCP nerfed heavy missiles because people are too unbright to change their behavior. A people problem, not a mechanics problem. Now the not so long range missiles are barely able to poke someone if they even maange to get in to their destination in the first place. I saw his video and his fit is close to what I came up with although I'm torn between either tank rigs or warp speed. For people who want a crazy effective anti - frig/t3 destroyer then look at a rlml rattlesnake. It gets a bonus to all missiles
I think a regular Typhoon does it pretty well also, and much cheaper. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
773
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 06:11:16 -
[84] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:A Megathron huh. Wouldn't a Curse be able to kiil that?
You kinda didn't read what I said. I said I wanted to fly the Megathron that I kept in Amarr and take it on a roam. How am I supposed to know what I find out there without going there first?
And no, a Curse would not be able to do that.
This is about battleships and the notion of them being bad in the current meta. Maybe but if you haven't seen all the alterations they have seen and lived through them like baltec1 and I did, how can you say they are bad?
I could have said the same thing because I was yolo-kited when I entered Houla later that night but that wasn't the fault of the ship. In that case it was mechanics that made the Megathron look bad - links. That still doesn't make the ship bad.
I am inclined to agree with baltec1 on the matter of tech 3 cruisers you get a little to much for one shipclass. But writing about this gave me another idea based on an earlier idea of mine.
On a few occasions I said that tech 3 cruiser shouldn't be allowed in k-space and maybe that is a little too much to ask but what about working on an effect just like effect wormholes instead.
In k-space a lot of the native resistance doesn't work in k-space because the transition from a wormhole to k-space cause some kind of malfunction on the shield generators and armor platings.
The cataclysmic variable effect gave me that idea. So in k-space you still have your tech 3 boat, just not as good (recon ships resists) and when you go back into w-space, all of your shield generators and armor platings would get their resistance back, depending on which wormhole you enter.
Seems to me like the lesser of two evils.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
66
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 06:35:56 -
[85] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:A Megathron huh. Wouldn't a Curse be able to kiil that? You kinda didn't read what I said. I said I wanted to fly the Megathron that I kept in Amarr and take it on a roam. How am I supposed to know what I find out there without going there first? And no, a Curse would not be able to do that. This is about battleships and the notion of them being bad in the current meta. Maybe but if you haven't seen all the alterations they have seen and lived through them like baltec1 and I did, how can you say they are bad? I could have said the same thing because I was yolo-kited when I entered Houla later that night but that wasn't the fault of the ship. In that case it was mechanics that made the Megathron look bad - links. That still doesn't make the ship bad. I am inclined to agree with baltec1 on the matter of tech 3 cruisers you get a little to much for one shipclass. But writing about this gave me another idea based on an earlier idea of mine. On a few occasions I said that tech 3 cruiser shouldn't be allowed in k-space and maybe that is a little too much to ask but what about working on an effect just like effect wormholes instead. In k-space a lot of the native resistance doesn't work in k-space because the transition from a wormhole to k-space cause some kind of malfunction on the shield generators and armor platings. The cataclysmic variable effect gave me that idea. So in k-space you still have your tech 3 boat, just not as good (recon ships resists) and when you go back into w-space, all of your shield generators and armor platings would get their resistance back, depending on which wormhole you enter. Seems to me like the lesser of two evils.
I don't use T1 BSs atm , so what do I know if they are bad or not. The debate I was having with baltec1 was if T3C should be nerf down to cruiser level. At first I thought he was being bias towards T3Cs for personal dislike and just wanted them obliterated from the game (which still might be true) but after hearing other non-biased similar opinions from respected pilots I decided to throw in the towel and face the inevitable. The rest is up to CCP to do what they need to do. And the sooner the better, prolonging this major issue with T3Cs is gonna make it worst for newer pilots that are still in the process of training for these ships. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16467
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Posted - 2015.08.02 07:00:48 -
[86] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
I think a regular Typhoon does it pretty well also, and much cheaper.
Phoon is great but the rattles bonus applies to RLML too, which makes it very deadly to frigates and makes it perfect for baiting frigates/t3d as they always think its a ratter rattler.
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Arcos Vandymion
White Beast Inc.
97
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Posted - 2015.08.02 10:18:08 -
[87] - Quote
Shrike Crendraven wrote:Bigger and more expensive ships are meant to be better in every aspect, yes. One good thing about eve is that the balance is about the money. The more u pay, the better stuff u get.
I'd say cars are a good analogy - sure u can drive a dacia duster - its a good car, but a range rover thats priced around 100.000+ eur *is* better in each and every aspect. Why isnt everyone driving a range rover then??? Those dumb people!! :D See my point?
But that's a comparison of a T1 BS to a faction/T2 BS. You compare the same functionality (or size class). It'd be more accurate to compare say a Suzuki Swift or Fiat Panda to a Mercedes G or Land Rover* Defender.
The Porsche 911 would be the Dramiel (a classic) and the 7 gear hybrid Porsche Spyder study i saw some time back the Garmur ... more money. Is it better? in it's functionallity at going really fast on streets it certainly is. It doesn't do what the Land Rover does for you though. |
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