Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1711
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 08:31:08 -
[31] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:SFM Hobb3s wrote:Yeah we did all see this coming.
How about having just the initial entosis required to be performed by minimum 5 attackers? This means small gangs can still reinforce stuff, it just eliminates the potential of one trollceptor running amok. The issue isn't really one trollceptor running amok, it's that the offense does not really have to commit to the fight. There is no real penalty for initiating the Entosis. There is no penalty for flying off grid. There is no penalty for failing to show up to offensive timers. The offense can still blue ball as much as they want, while the defender cannot ignore any threats if they want to keep their space.
Why are more people not just using cyno alts?
Why are people not occupying the systems they own at prime time so interlopers are instantly seen?
Why are they not ignoring it until the near end of the cycle to burn it's fuel, then pop out with an alt and roll it back 3x faster than they sat there?
These are (mainly) serious questions. Especially the last one as with indexes up it takes you a fraction of the time to undo their work.
I was in CVA space recently in their window and it was so active it was unreal. Local like high sec in EVERY system, noone was trollceptoring there. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2080
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 10:49:34 -
[32] - Quote
Just add multipliers to the entosing speed. Simple that open up space for fozzie to balance it in detail
For example.. frigates take 2x normal time... battlecruisers 40% less. Just an example.. omg we suddenly found a role and reason for people to fly battlecruisers!!!
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
|
Hogeron Amelan
Marquie-X. Triumvirate.
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 12:28:18 -
[33] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Just add multipliers to the entosing speed. Simple that open up space for fozzie to balance it in detail
For example.. frigates take 2x normal time... battlecruisers 40% less. Just an example.. omg we suddenly found a role and reason for people to fly battlecruisers!!!
That was part of the idea to limit Entosis Links to BC and BS only. The idea behind FozzieSov was to move sov warfare from structure shooting and Capital-Mass Blobbing to actual activity of the sov demanding party (attacker or defender). So what was the intention in general? On one hand to reduce server lags on 500+ Capital fights by simply making them less or almost unviral to own or take sov. On the other hand it was to give all partys the possibility to actualy fight in a battle conflict to gain sov, or in other words, to find out who has the actual military superiority over the thing. That definately does not include randomly entose system without the intention to take them.
So ONE POINT was not implemented yet (or ignored) in the Sov Mechanics, that is: With the actual mechanism you are able to take away systems from the military superior side in the area WITHOUT having the INTENTION of HOLDING the sov (over a serious amount of time). This is absolute nonsence. So to fix that, the sov attacker must be made commited to the action of taking sov. For example, by the loss of a centain value like a fleet in combat or even the one entosing ship (1-2 stationary guns like on a pos maybe?) in case when the military superior force seriously intends to hold the system. Now only the sov holder is actually made to fight for his systems. Attackers can take away sov-structures without commitment to easily. That is the imbalance now. As long as this issue is not fixed, there will me permanetly troll-entosis fleets generating ghost fight-timers where one side blue-balls the other. If you dont understand this point, and are a 0.0 Sov holder, you will soon... |
Feyrin
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
43
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 12:43:46 -
[34] - Quote
Prior to the release on Fozzie sov, someone posted and I appologize for not crediting as I cant find the original post, a excellent solution to alleviate this issue. They called it entosis shock a 10 second imobilize effect when you snap the entosis link. Makes troll ceptors slightly more catchable and doesnt mean having to add arbitary restrictions. |
Hogeron Amelan
Marquie-X. Triumvirate.
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 14:22:04 -
[35] - Quote
Feyrin wrote:arbitary restrictions.
Cant fly a Drake??
A snap wont change anything btw, 'cause you get the message that a structure is being attacked AFTER the warmup-cycle, what is even more bulls***. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6734
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 16:34:42 -
[36] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Why are more people not just using cyno alts? The interceptor ran off at 4km's or something and then I was fatigued
Hogeron Amelan wrote:So what was the intention in general?
...
That definately does not include randomly entose systems and structures without the intention to take them. Eh, why not, trolling sov until the owners all give up sure sounds like it would ~shake up sov~~
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Anything that breaks up the mindless AFK ratting/mining of the blue doughnut is a positive in my mind. Anything that makes null more dangerous/unpredictable again is a good thing right now. Anything?
Huh, I'm reminded of the magic lever in jita that drops sov in nullsec whenever it's shot at. Installed in the monument.
It definitely shook up sov
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
118
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 16:57:55 -
[37] - Quote
I can fix this super easy.... REMOVE T1 ENTOSIS LINKS FROM THE GAME....
Ok thanks. |
Feyrin
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
44
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:25:52 -
[38] - Quote
Hogeron Amelan wrote:A snap wont change anything btw, 'cause you get the message that a structure is being attacked AFTER the warmup-cycle, what is even more bulls***.
Well the capture timer after the warmup is dependent on the index.
Defending an index of 1 is pretty hard but isn't that the idea?
All a snap addresses is using very fast nano-ships to speed off into the distance when a hostile lands on grid, effectively bypassing the restriction on being able to warp while the entosis link is active. It doesn't particularly adversely affect T2 links or the use of any other tactic that this one and simply increases the risk of using trollceptors as a tactic to a point where hopefully the benefit is more accurately balanced by the risk. |
Aramis Rosicrux
ASB0 Hooligans BLUE Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:38:27 -
[39] - Quote
Hogeron Amelan wrote:It would already fix it a bit when you restrain Entosis Links to Battlecruisers and Battleships and their T2 aquivalents only. This will make a sov-attack serious buisness to both sides.
For the idea of FozzieSov was to give sov tho those who actuialy have the military power and activity in the area to hold it, small roaming gangs like Ceptors and Nano-Cruisers are definately no military power to seriously hold sov and therefor just meta. Seriously you can't expect an alliance to ninja-form everytime a troll-ceptor goes suicide-entosing to drag a fleet out.
Hogeron is absolutely correct. Letting individuals sneak in and disrupt your timers in ten minutes really breaks it all.
Inteceptors just makes it easy for the trolls.
Join the Planetary Society! planetarysociety.org
My EveBoard Signature PNG
|
Hogeron Amelan
Marquie-X. Triumvirate.
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 17:59:46 -
[40] - Quote
Feyrin wrote:
Defending an index of 1 is pretty hard but isn't that the idea?
This is correct, but incomplete.This is the idea, but is is differnet when you have 50 systems attacked simultaniously of an Index of, lets say, 1.9 - 3 without any further porpose by the attackers to take it but just to anoy the owners.
Taking a system at index 1 with an Interceptor or a battlecruiser makes no difference for both sides, when the attackers do not defend at all and the attackers intend to hold it, that is not the point.. |
|
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1711
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 18:27:05 -
[41] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:afkalt wrote:Why are more people not just using cyno alts? The interceptor ran off at 4km's or something and then I was fatigued
Held your space with no effort though.
I notice GSF have lost nothing of interest and have adapted well, hurry up and teach the others.
It's funny how the organised mob always do well at something needing organisation....oh...wait. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
448
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 18:34:30 -
[42] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Just add multipliers to the entosing speed. Simple that open up space for fozzie to balance it in detail
For example.. frigates take 2x normal time... battlecruisers 40% less. Just an example.. omg we suddenly found a role and reason for people to fly battlecruisers!!! Or they could just fix BCs with a fairly simple range buff. Instead of making the ship useful only in null space, but still mostly crap everywhere else.
Your proposal is fine. Just dont think thats only what BCs need to be viable again.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
|
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp Chao3 Alliance
278
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 20:57:37 -
[43] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:Yeah we did all see this coming.
How about having just the initial entosis required to be performed by minimum 5 attackers? This means small gangs can still reinforce stuff, it just eliminates the potential of one trollceptor running amok. No
do not add a number cap, but do significantly reduce the speed of ship while entosifying.
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
|
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
98
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 21:03:52 -
[44] - Quote
Fung Ku wrote:My experience of Fozziesov is not so great.
Troll ceptors seem to be the meta, and generally it seems that methods being used are to literally reinforce all low defense systems within an hour or 2.
This all seems fun, but lets face it, its not creating content, its just causing mass amounts of trolling.
This is the system we have now, and am sure that things will settle down, however I do believe that the system in general will be more tolerable, with a slight nerf to trollceptors.
IMO, the ceptor is overpowered for the 'troll sov' role for the following reasons:
Bubble immunity speed fit 5.5k m/s + agile can cover large distances in no time at all
Combining all of these benefits, It becomes an almost unstoppable doctrine.
I propose the following, minor nerf, to make troll ceptors slightly less viable:
Increasing the consumption of Stront for T1 entosis links, to perhaps 3 or 4 units per cycle.
How will this nerf the troll ceptor?
Ceptors will be required to make a decision as to fit for speed, with limited amounts of stront for entosis cycles, or;
fit cargo expander making ceptors less agile, and fast but allowing more cycles of entosis, but easier to defend against.
Just my 2 cents,
Fung Ku
Be honest, if you can-¦t fight a ceptor your don-¦t deserve the SOV.
-1
|
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp Chao3 Alliance
278
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 21:05:25 -
[45] - Quote
Hogeron Amelan wrote: So ONE POINT was not implemented yet (or ignored) in the Sov Mechanics, that is: With the actual mechanism you are able to take away systems from the military superior side in the area WITHOUT having the INTENTION of HOLDING the sov (over a serious amount of time). This is absolute nonsence.
Guerilla warfare is not about conquering territories. You simply want to prevent small groups to be able to bring guerilla tactics to your sand castle.
I do agree that the current speed of ships while entosifying needs to be looked at, and entosis ship should not be allowed to become like cyno alts ships, i.e. worthless.
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
|
Hogeron Amelan
Marquie-X. Triumvirate.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 13:41:14 -
[46] - Quote
Saisin wrote: Guerilla warfare is not about conquering territories.
Tats the pont!!! It musn't be!! But it is!! So why the heck are guerillia-gangs in Eve able to?? = Nonsence. |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
334
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 18:01:55 -
[47] - Quote
Hogeron Amelan wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Just add multipliers to the entosing speed. Simple that open up space for fozzie to balance it in detail
For example.. frigates take 2x normal time... battlecruisers 40% less. Just an example.. omg we suddenly found a role and reason for people to fly battlecruisers!!! That was part of the idea to limit Entosis Links to BC and BS only. The idea behind FozzieSov was to move sov warfare from structure shooting and Capital-Mass Blobbing to actual activity of the sov demanding party (attacker or defender). So what was the intention in general? On one hand to reduce server lags on 500+ Capital fights by simply making them less or almost unviral to own or take sov. On the other hand it was to give all partys the possibility to actualy fight in a battle conflict to gain sov, or in other words, to find out who has the actual military superiority over the thing. That definately does not include randomly entose systems and structures without the intention to take them. So ONE POINT was not implemented yet (or ignored) in the Sov Mechanics, that is: With the actual mechanism you are able to take away systems from the military superior side in the area WITHOUT having the INTENTION of HOLDING the sov (over a serious amount of time). This is absolute nonsence. So to fix that, the sov attacker must be made commited to the action of taking sov. For example, by the loss of a centain value like a fleet in combat or even the one entosing ship (1-2 stationary guns like on a pos maybe?) in case when the military superior force seriously intends to hold the system. Now only the sov holder is actually made to fight for his systems. Attackers can take away sov-structures without commitment too easily. That is the imbalance now. As long as this issue is not fixed, there will me permanetly troll-entosis fleets generating ghost fight-timers where one side blue-balls the other. If you dont understand this point, and are a 0.0 Sov holder, you will soon...
It is not CCPs place to stop someone from annoying you, that is your job. either move of fight.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
|
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
334
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 18:18:23 -
[48] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:If you have a system where you can't quickly mount a defense against someone, do you really deserve to have that system?
Working as intended. Only keep the systems you can ACTUALLY defend. What is your take on the idea that you only reinforce systems you can ACTUALLY attack? I dont know about him but weakening your SOV constitutes an attack to me, further it might be a means to weaken your resolve in preparation for a full scale assault. You ASSUME you know why someone is entosing your system but unless you have special powers they rest of us dont your assumption is just that an assumption and nothing more and game mechanics should not be built around YOUR assumptions.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
|
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
334
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 18:36:17 -
[49] - Quote
Hogeron Amelan wrote:Saisin wrote: Guerilla warfare is not about conquering territories.
That is the point!!! It musn't be!! But it is!! Guerillias are not a significant military power with the intention to hold sov in the sence of Fozzie-Sov Mechanics. Saisin wrote: You simply want to prevent small groups to be able to bring guerilla tactics to your sand castle.
So manny presumptions in this one sentence are wrong and just a troll, Sry buddy but, 1. 50+ Ceptors is not a "small group" - That's what this topic is all about. 2. I don't simply want to prevent anything, I am accusing a meta gaming method. 3. I have no sand castle.
Guerilla warfare is not done without a purpose, it is done to weaken your opponemts resolve and to put a small army on more equal footing with a larger one. You want those 50 players to fight toe to toe with 5000 man alliances because the outcome is a foregone conclusion.
Im pretty sure the British were not fond of US guerilla tactics in our fight for independence. Also, in our fight for independence the will of the British monarchy was eventually broken and viola that small military took the land and became the most powerful military in the history of the world.
Your statement was echoed by the British in our war with them that we were cheating because war had stupid fighting rules at the time and we broke those rules at the expense of the British and to the benefit of ourselves.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
|
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
334
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 18:48:05 -
[50] - Quote
Saisin wrote:SFM Hobb3s wrote:Yeah we did all see this coming.
How about having just the initial entosis required to be performed by minimum 5 attackers? This means small gangs can still reinforce stuff, it just eliminates the potential of one trollceptor running amok. No do not add a number cap, but do significantly reduce the speed of ship while entosifying.
RnKs had a problem how would they fight against corps with far greater numbers and corps with much greater resources, they have found ways.
The speed of ships entosing isnt the problem, your lack of military creativity is the problem and that shortcoming isnt something CCP should solve for you
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
|
|
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
334
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 18:57:12 -
[51] - Quote
Feyrin wrote:Prior to the release on Fozzie sov, someone posted and I appologize for not crediting as I cant find the original post, a excellent solution to alleviate this issue. They called it entosis shock a 10 second imobilize effect when you snap the entosis link. Makes troll ceptors slightly more catchable and doesnt mean having to add arbitary restrictions.
You do know that 'entosis shock' would constitute an arbitrary restriction. right?
You are arbitrarily nerfing the effectiveness of certain ships to be the best at entosing. Some ships are just the best at what they do, sometimes by design, sometimes just because it works out that way.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
|
davet517
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
119
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 19:46:02 -
[52] - Quote
Deactivate prop mods when entosis is active. EWAR immunity when entosis is active. Fixed.
If you want to entosis, you have to come ready to fight. If you want to defend, you have to come ready to fight.
Of course, the counter to the above is to simply bring a throw-away ship, on the (reasonably good) chance that nobody is going to show up to defend at all.
I have to say, though, that the tears over "trollcepters" look overblown to me. I'm scouting around and I'm seeing all kinds of solo ships out there chewing on nodes. Everything from frigates to drakes. In many cases, the defender is simply holding too much space, and CBA to show up. That'll sort itself out soon enough. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2538
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 19:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
I think they should make a small entosis link that you need 5 of to get a decent time, with less it'll take longer to cycle. Then there should be large links which you fit to a cruiser and now you only need one ship for optimum time. Not quite the same as the T1 vs T2 we have now.
But I also agree with davet517. This galaxy starts to look small when you see the sovereignty on the map. Just about everything ownable has been owned since well before I started playing, but vast amounts of that space are just empty sov costing fuel blocks and not getting used for anything beyond a barrier. Once all that excess sov falls off the map, we'll get to see how full this galaxy really is. I, for one, am eager to see that.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
|
Hogeron Amelan
Marquie-X. Triumvirate.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 20:40:57 -
[54] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk, ure trying to fix on crap, maybe improvements, but it isn't hard to improve on garbage. And why are you addresing me In your propositions, I am no Dev, tell it to them. Any more doubts on the failure on this Fozzie-SOV so far shall be vanished by reading this post ! Still dont get it? Then care about something else, cause you won't get it.
Also its funny that guys who have no experiece and perspective on the matter, try to smart-ass answer to those involved. Almost like in every thread you find to a problem by googeling it, the first answer you find is: "Try googleing it." - Good job! |
Lu Ziffer
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
34
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 20:48:30 -
[55] - Quote
Sov was intend as something that measures activity and it is not. Yes it has activity based timers but it is not a good system. It added a artifical timers which favor the defender It added an attack way which pretty much made all ships bigger then a cruiser useless
We had the troll attacks in the past and they will stop as soon as people get bored. In a few month you will see how the defender willl again gain more advantage out of it.
It's annoying to say it agian but the this system does not scale and the only one that ever did was the first. In 2008 Sieging a tower was huge work as there were not enough dread pilots later people were scared because of Supercarriers. Today we have no fast knowing Supercarrier fleets and thousands of dread pilots In all the time it never changed that 50dreads were able to reinforce a tower in 10minutes. In 2008 we defended a important System with 10 Towers so a full capital fleet needs 25minutes to reinforce the system if you have the balls to bring it and the defender has not the balls to counter drop. Yes the small alliances up to 200players will have an issue to bring 50 dreads but 25 are enough because the average response time is more than 20minutes. So rollback to that I say.
And the "empty" space is "empty" for a reason it is a more a less a demilitarized zone, in EVE these areas can be half a region wide or somewhere between 5 and 10systems It s claimed to monitor it and the cost of a few million isk is worth it. Sometimes big alliances and coalitions allow other groups to live there but more as a shield. This space is not empty it is the demilitarized zone after a war that might has lasted 6month of everyday fighting with alarmclock ops and losses of billions of isk a day.
That is also the reason why a small entity will never hold signficant space in EVE they have not the capability to fight a 6month war. Most alliances loose 25-50% of there members in such a war because they just burn out and even the biggest alliances can not compensate for 1 trillion ISK loss per month for ever. Some might say nobody looses 1 trillion ISK per month but this is only the value of 40 BS fleets or 10 titans. |
Okapist
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
66
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 21:09:57 -
[56] - Quote
Try to kill some npc or mine some ore to get def indexes. Or you may free this system to peoples who want to live there.
Adapt or die.
|
Lu Ziffer
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
34
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 21:16:54 -
[57] - Quote
Okapist wrote:Try to kill some npc or mine some ore to get def indexes. Or you may free this system to peoples who want to live there.
Adapt or die.
You realy don't get that if a system is "empty" or without SOV it still belongs to some alliances influencesphere. There are a 1000 PVPers who will be happy to evict anyone who tries to move in out just because they are bored. This has nothing todo with adapt or die. |
Okapist
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
66
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 21:20:44 -
[58] - Quote
Lu Ziffer wrote:Okapist wrote:Try to kill some npc or mine some ore to get def indexes. Or you may free this system to peoples who want to live there.
Adapt or die.
You realy don't get that if a system is "empty" or without SOV it still belongs to some alliances influencesphere. There are a 1000 PVPers who will be happy to evict anyone who tries to move in out just because they are bored. This has nothing todo with adapt or die.
Ok. If you doesn't want to use or free systems you may do hundreds of command nodes. But don't cry. It's your choice. |
Lu Ziffer
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
34
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 21:29:24 -
[59] - Quote
Okapist wrote:Ok. If you doesn't want to use or free systems you may do hundreds of command nodes. But don't cry. It's your choice. You understand that the SOV is not needed to control the system. Loose the system and then control it by just killing everyone who wants capture it. No SOV needed |
Okapist
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
66
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 21:38:57 -
[60] - Quote
Lu Ziffer wrote:Okapist wrote:Ok. If you doesn't want to use or free systems you may do hundreds of command nodes. But don't cry. It's your choice. You understand that the SOV is not needed to control the system. Loose the system and then control it by just killing everyone who wants capture it. No SOV needed
And why triumvirate crying about command nodes and interceptors? They may leave this systems and no problem. No SOV needed |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |