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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
748
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Posted - 2015.08.07 03:50:10 -
[481] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:mydingaling wrote:The endgame of this brutal space mmo has invincible stations, uncatchable ships and magic space capture wand devices. You know why? Because Goonswarm objected to the idea of destructible stations.
Why so you can destroy what groups of people worked for for years and have it go poof. Making stations destructible sets the precedent that even NPC owned stations should be destroyed.
Because if no one can have their player owned station why should you be immune in your NPC owned station.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5558
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Posted - 2015.08.07 03:52:28 -
[482] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Why so you can destroy what groups of people worked for for years and have it go poof. By this logic why should we be able to destroy Titans or supercarriers?
Yang Aurilen wrote:Making stations destructible sets the precedent that even NPC owned stations should be destroyed.
Because if no one can have their player owned station why should you be immune in your NPC owned station. Because the Empires have access to superior shielding technology and dedicated naval forces to stop you from doing stuff like that. By intentionally eschewing the Empires for personal freedom, you abandon that privilege. That pretty much fits the entire ethos of nullsec.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1043
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Posted - 2015.08.07 03:52:44 -
[483] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:mydingaling wrote:The endgame of this brutal space mmo has invincible stations, uncatchable ships and magic space capture wand devices. You know why? Because Goonswarm objected to the idea of destructible stations. That's because we know exactly what would/will happen if/when sov stations are made destructible. Everyone will just start keeping the majority of their **** in NPC stations. Oh, and since there are VERY few close NPC stations, the east will likely become even more of a ghetto than it already is. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5558
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Posted - 2015.08.07 04:02:42 -
[484] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:That's because we know exactly what would/will happen if/when sov stations are made destructible. Everyone will just start keeping the majority of their **** in NPC stations. Oh, and since there are VERY few close NPC stations, the east will likely become even more of a ghetto than it already is. So all that talk about hi-sec and low-sec dwellers being risk-averse is just projection, then?
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
115
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Posted - 2015.08.07 04:17:23 -
[485] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: This kind of thinking is exactly why sov has become a trolling contest.
Because according to you, the attacker should have to commit and risk functionally nothing..
It's become a troll contest because sov has left the domain of alliance level game play to solo *insert small, fast ship here*. Make the attacker commit multiple ships and/or larger assets and you will begin to remove the ability to troll sov level game play. At least with a structure grind we got to see flashing lights and consumed ammo spurring the market, however little. I'm still using the same 10k stack of missiles I bought just before Fozzie sov hit because I haven't even needed to shoot other players!
To actually contribute to the discussion, grinding systems is boring. I can honestly say I never afk mined or ratted until fozziesov was introduced because I cant be arsed to grind up system after system. I'm waiting for the fun, cuz if you look at my KB, I haven't actually killed much in the times I've been able to make it to fleets since starting my new job. Chasing a ceptor who already has a 6 jump head start nor does grinding indices get my juices flowing to keep getting on and trying. And I am in no ways alone in this line of thinking.
If I can throw out my 2 cents on how to alter & improve the system: -Structure HP brought back so players have something to shoot, even if it's not each other. -Structures have 100% resistances -Entosis now reduces resistances at some rate based on index level. Vice versa for defender. -Multiple hostile entosis can be used to increase rate of decay. Vice versa for defender. -Command nodes handled the same way but start at 50% HP and 0 "disruption" --Hostile entosis increases "disruption" reducing resistances and remote rep effectiveness to the structure. --Friendly entosis pauses Hostile Entosis cycles and/or reduces "disruption," but does not restore resistances - no bonus rep can be gained in such a way. --Repping to 100% saves the node and locks invulnerability status. --Destruction.. well destroys it. --Nodes slowly generate HP on their own if left untouched to prevent nodes being left out for days at a time with nobody defending/attacking. -Vulnerability timers go away. Structures can be hit at any time, any day and RF timers handled identically to Dominion.
There were no actual problems with Dominion sov. It was merely incomplete. Anyone here can tell you Dominion sov was said to have many more patches on the way to improve the QOL of the attackers and defenders, patches we never saw. The entosis link offers a chance to give a boost to the attacker in a quasi-Dominion-Fozzie sov. From there, the future structure patch can be part of the long promised additional features to holding sov.
EDIT- I realize my ideas benefit blobbing. But there is literally nothing you can do without implementing game breaking limitations that can not be done better by blobbing than by a smaller entity. The idea is to give then an opening, not hold the door open for them. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5559
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Posted - 2015.08.07 04:25:08 -
[486] - Quote
If you bring back structure HP, that once again turns sov into a game which smaller entities are locked out of by default. Larger entities will always be able to bring more DPS or remote repair than they will.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1043
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Posted - 2015.08.07 04:31:10 -
[487] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:If you bring back structure HP, that once again turns sov into a game which smaller entities are locked out of by default. Larger entities will always be able to bring more DPS or remote repair than they will. Not at all. In fact, I think the better option for this iteration of sov would have been a marriage of Dominion sov, and Fozziesov. Basically, keep structure HP, but put it on a sliding scale based on how high the indexes are.
For some random numbers I am pulling out of my ass right this second: Index 1: HP that could be chewed through in 5-10 minutes by 10 T1 cruisers (or equivalent). Index 2: 15-20 minutes with 20-30 T1 cruisers (or equivalent). Index 3: 20-30 minutes with 40-50. Index 4: 20-30 minutes with 50-100. Index 5: 20-30 with 150-200. Index 6: Bring supers and dreads, or a really large poopsock. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5559
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Posted - 2015.08.07 04:39:58 -
[488] - Quote
Ah, of course, because the one weakness of huge coalitions like Imperium is their inability to repel cruiser gangs.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Panthe3 Black
The Branded Few Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2015.08.07 05:01:01 -
[489] - Quote
its just plain bad, really really bad. id rather go back to 2005 sov and that was ****. |
Panthe3 Black
The Branded Few Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2015.08.07 05:02:02 -
[490] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:If you bring back structure HP, that once again turns sov into a game which smaller entities are locked out of by default. Larger entities will always be able to bring more DPS or remote repair than they will. Not at all. In fact, I think the better option for this iteration of sov would have been a marriage of Dominion sov, and Fozziesov. Basically, keep structure HP, but put it on a sliding scale based on how high the indexes are. For some random numbers I am pulling out of my ass right this second: Index 1: HP that could be chewed through in 5-10 minutes by 10 T1 cruisers (or equivalent). Index 2: 15-20 minutes with 20-30 T1 cruisers (or equivalent). Index 3: 20-30 minutes with 40-50. Index 4: 20-30 minutes with 50-100. Index 5: 20-30 with 150-200. Index 6: Bring supers and dreads, or a really large poopsock.
something anything, the current sov game is terribad. entosis my ass |
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
749
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Posted - 2015.08.07 05:02:09 -
[491] - Quote
What if, the smaller entities became friends with each other so they can't get screwed over by the imperium? Sure they can pew pew each other but if they are actually being threatened by the imperium is BLUE TIME.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Panthe3 Black
The Branded Few Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2015.08.07 05:10:28 -
[492] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:What if, the smaller entities became friends with each other so they can't get screwed over by the imperium? Sure they can pew pew each other but if they are actually being threatened by the imperium is BLUE TIME.
prob is now too many small groups with agendas of thier own. and the bigger groups more established dont really like to take in new ideas. would be great to se the south united like the north, but as history has ALWAYS shown it is always at war with itself. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
749
|
Posted - 2015.08.07 05:20:52 -
[493] - Quote
Panthe3 Black wrote:Yang Aurilen wrote:What if, the smaller entities became friends with each other so they can't get screwed over by the imperium? Sure they can pew pew each other but if they are actually being threatened by the imperium is BLUE TIME. prob is now too many small groups with agendas of thier own. and the bigger groups more established dont really like to take in new ideas. would be great to se the south united like the north, but as history has ALWAYS shown it is always at war with itself.
So you're saying that the "small guys" can't even be friends with their other "small guys" neighbors to save themselves even if an imperium blob is incoming to hellcamp them back to empire space?
And the "small guys" expect to actually take down a large group like the imperium by themselves this way?
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6526
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Posted - 2015.08.07 06:08:31 -
[494] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote: Further you admit that the map never changes (the reason being that you form non agression pacts and dont fight each other but instead speak as a singular voice on every issue because all the members of nullsec have become bed-buddies).
it is these last two points that are killing EVE, not the first two.
We'll probably go back to war with each other when CCP stops giving us reasons to unify against them instead. Most of this **** accelerated after Phoebe. Imagine that. It was your own words that nullsec WAS stagnate, meaning long before ccp fozzie was instructed to make sov changes, now all of a sudden it used to be a mecca of space carnage, come on guy your own ******* words not mine and you deny them in your very next post, when you nullsec types blow smoke up peoples behinds you go all in. It's fairly simple. It was stagnant which is why we were in support of the change, but there were still fights. Now it's even more stagnant with considerably less fights and nearly no chance of a large scale battle that hits international news.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6526
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Posted - 2015.08.07 06:16:48 -
[495] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Because the Empires have access to superior shielding technology and dedicated naval forces to stop you from doing stuff like that. By intentionally eschewing the Empires for personal freedom, you abandon that privilege. That pretty much fits the entire ethos of nullsec. More importantly, why would anyone want to live out of a player owned station if it could be blown up? I guarantee that if they ever put this in you'll see the whole of sov null relocate in and around NPC stations so we can base most of our stuff in indestructible stations yet still use sov space as we do now.
Andreus Ixiris wrote:So all that talk about hi-sec and low-sec dwellers being risk-averse is just projection, then? Chosing to not lose everything you own isn't risk aversion, it's common sense.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
403
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Posted - 2015.08.07 06:30:10 -
[496] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote: Further you admit that the map never changes (the reason being that you form non agression pacts and dont fight each other but instead speak as a singular voice on every issue because all the members of nullsec have become bed-buddies).
it is these last two points that are killing EVE, not the first two.
We'll probably go back to war with each other when CCP stops giving us reasons to unify against them instead. Most of this **** accelerated after Phoebe. Imagine that. It was your own words that nullsec WAS stagnate, meaning long before ccp fozzie was instructed to make sov changes, now all of a sudden it used to be a mecca of space carnage, come on guy your own ******* words not mine and you deny them in your very next post, when you nullsec types blow smoke up peoples behinds you go all in. It's fairly simple. It was stagnant which is why we were in support of the change, but there were still fights. Now it's even more stagnant with considerably less fights and nearly no chance of a large scale battle that hits international news.
But as ive asked a dozen times before, what exactly keeps you from taking a fleet and kicking your neighbors ass, nothing.
There has never been a mechanic that prevented you from doing so and since entossing has come about the barrier to combat is at an all time low, yet all we get from nullsec is more fabricated reasons why you cannot fight one another.
Stop posting, get off your space butts and find another alliance to entoss and show up when its battle time, easy.
And on the issue of stagnant it will change not when CCP comes up with some magic mechanic it will occur when you make it occur. What got you to burn Jita, did CCP put some mechanic in game that said burn Jita or we are canceling all sov mechanics, nope you just made a plan got off your space butts and did it.
Now use that same drive to bring space havoc to nullsec and all will be good.
but.....
You wont, not cant, JUST WONT.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13996
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Posted - 2015.08.07 06:36:48 -
[497] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote: But as ive asked a dozen times before, what exactly keeps you from taking a fleet and kicking your neighbors ass, nothing.
You can't ignore that the jump changes pretty much put the kibosh on the level of escalation that allowed those big newsworthy fights to happen.
Is it still technically possible to have another BR5? Yes. Is it going to happen again? Probably not, because it would be much more of a pain in the ass for both sides, unless it was pre arranged.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5559
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Posted - 2015.08.07 07:01:04 -
[498] - Quote
Why does every discussion of escalation have to come back to BR5? Why does everyone seem to want every fleet engagement to have the possibility of turning into BR5? Yes, it was certainly an impressive engagement in terms of sheer scale but do we really want every battle to turn into an 8-hour 75% TiDi slugfest?
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6746
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Posted - 2015.08.07 08:53:19 -
[499] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Panthe3 Black wrote:Yang Aurilen wrote:What if, the smaller entities became friends with each other so they can't get screwed over by the imperium? Sure they can pew pew each other but if they are actually being threatened by the imperium is BLUE TIME. prob is now too many small groups with agendas of thier own. and the bigger groups more established dont really like to take in new ideas. would be great to se the south united like the north, but as history has ALWAYS shown it is always at war with itself. So you're saying that the "small guys" can't even be friends with their other "small guys" neighbors to save themselves even if an imperium blob is incoming to hellcamp them back to empire space? And the "small guys" expect to actually take down a large group like the imperium by themselves this way? If they all start being blue, might as well be blue to people that can stop them from being owned, which isn't the other small guys...
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
997
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Posted - 2015.08.07 09:25:09 -
[500] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:But as ive asked a dozen times before, what exactly keeps you from taking a fleet and kicking your neighbors ass... Lack of reason to do so. What always irks me about EVE is that if you look at the game from the PoV of power, resources and influence, you must behave like a total scrub if you want something "fun" to happen. Solo PvP, gang roams, NPSI fleets - objectively speaking, it all is utterly pointless and wastes your time and potentially resources for no gain. But it provides what many people even log in to play the game, so bottom line that it's good practice. When something gets serious, on the other hand, it quickly becomes unfun for everyone involved. It's not really feasible to completely destroy someone in this game (you can do that in theory, but in practice it's too easy to commit something that falls under definitions of TOS-prohibited actions), so people aim directly for players, and what do you do when video game is what you have? Break morale, make people not want to login, or just move their ingame assets somewhere they will be irrelevant.
In a competitive sandbox game about player groups and powers there's no way around it, at least I don't see one. And because of that I don't see it as a good idea to try and change that. Instead, at least reducing annoyance of interacting with raw game mechanics that doesn't really involve other people would be a good thing, but not much else you can do.
I'm not going to repost my unoriginal ideas on entosis here for the umpteenth time, just pointing something fundamental out.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5560
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Posted - 2015.08.07 10:13:14 -
[501] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chosing to not lose everything you own isn't risk aversion, it's common sense. People who live in wormhole space do this all the time. Are you essentially conceding that wormhole dwellers are less risk-averse and more committed to the spirit of EVE than nullsec dewllers? Because if so, I wholeheartedly agree.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
751
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Posted - 2015.08.07 10:27:34 -
[502] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Chosing to not lose everything you own isn't risk aversion, it's common sense. People who live in wormhole space do this all the time. Are you essentially conceding that wormhole dwellers are less risk-averse and more committed to the spirit of EVE than nullsec dewllers? Because if so, I wholeheartedly agree.
You forgot the part where any major WH entity is dug in real hard with full moon coverage and no way to realistically evict them in interceptors with magical sov mining laser I.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Lena Lazair
Khanid Irregulars Khanid's Legion
515
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Posted - 2015.08.07 10:34:06 -
[503] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:You forgot the part where any major WH entity is dug in real hard with full moon coverage and no way to realistically evict them in interceptors with magical sov mining laser I.
You can't realistically evict a major null entity with interceptors and sov lasers either. All you can do is annoy them a bit.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5560
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Posted - 2015.08.07 10:35:41 -
[504] - Quote
All I'm hearing is more excuses from nullsec dwellers about how hard it is to fight things.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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B0RG 0VERLORD
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.08.07 10:46:01 -
[505] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:All I'm hearing is more excuses from nullsec dwellers about how hard it is to fight things.
if you don't live out in null then i think your opinion shouldn't count towards anything related to this patch,as it has no relevance to hs dwellers |
Salvos Rhoska
1224
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Posted - 2015.08.07 10:51:08 -
[506] - Quote
B0RG 0VERLORD wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:All I'm hearing is more excuses from nullsec dwellers about how hard it is to fight things. if you don't live out in null then i think your opinion shouldn't count towards anything related to this patch,as it has no relevance to hs dwellers
Perhaps true.
But inversly that hasnt ever stopped null residents lobbying on HS changes. (Though admittedly everyones got an alt in HS anyways)
Just sayin'.
------------
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5560
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Posted - 2015.08.07 10:58:11 -
[507] - Quote
B0RG 0VERLORD wrote:if you don't live out in null then i think your opinion shouldn't count towards anything related to this patch,as it has no relevance to hs dwellers If all nullsec dwellers can agree to shut up about anything in empire or wormhole space, I would consider not talking about nullsec (despite the fact that I lived in nullsec very recently) a perfectly reasonable tradeoff.
I look forward to the imminent end to "nerf hisec" threads.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Akballah Kassan
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
44
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Posted - 2015.08.07 11:11:14 -
[508] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:mydingaling wrote:The endgame of this brutal space mmo has invincible stations, uncatchable ships and magic space capture wand devices. You know why? Because Goonswarm objected to the idea of destructible stations. Why so you can destroy what groups of people worked for for years and have it go poof. Making stations destructible sets the precedent that even NPC owned stations should be destroyed. Because if no one can have their player owned station why should you be immune in your NPC owned station.
They should allow stations to be destroyed, any assets trapped there get teleported to your Capital system. If that is destroyed they get transfered to the nearest low/null npc station. If station is held by an attacker enemy assets remained trapped in station.
Keeping or destroying stations then becomes an important tactical choice for an attacker. |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1045
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Posted - 2015.08.07 11:11:56 -
[509] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:B0RG 0VERLORD wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:All I'm hearing is more excuses from nullsec dwellers about how hard it is to fight things. if you don't live out in null then i think your opinion shouldn't count towards anything related to this patch,as it has no relevance to hs dwellers Perhaps true. But inversly that hasnt ever stopped null residents lobbying on HS changes. (Though admittedly everyones got an alt in HS anyways) Just sayin'. I actually have three. ;) |
Akballah Kassan
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
44
|
Posted - 2015.08.07 11:16:41 -
[510] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:It was stagnant which is why we were in support of the change, but there were still fights. Now it's even more stagnant with considerably less fights and nearly no chance of a large scale battle that hits international news.
Your alliance just semi-blued all your new small neighbours who moved into Cloud Ring so your alliance can have no complaints about lack of fights! |
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