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Akballah Kassan
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
44
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Posted - 2015.08.07 11:19:32 -
[511] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:More importantly, why would anyone want to live out of a player owned station if it could be blown up? I guarantee that if they ever put this in you'll see the whole of sov null relocate in and around NPC stations so we can base most of our stuff in indestructible stations yet still use sov space as we do now.
Would you still feel that way if stations could be blown up but assets trapped inside get teleported somewhere else once station goes pop? |
Akballah Kassan
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
44
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Posted - 2015.08.07 11:25:16 -
[512] - Quote
Akballah Kassan wrote:Yang Aurilen wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:[quote=mydingaling]The endgame of this brutal space mmo has invincible stations, uncatchable ships and magic space capture wand devices. You know why? Because Goonswarm objected to the idea of destructible stations. Why so you can destroy what groups of people worked for for years and have it go poof. Making stations destructible sets the precedent that even NPC owned stations should be destroyed. Because if no one can have their player owned station why should you be immune in your NPC owned station.
They should allow stations to be destroyed, any assets trapped there get teleported to your Capital system. If that is destroyed they get transfered to the nearest low/null npc station. If station is held by an attacker the enemies assets remained trapped in station.
Keeping or destroying stations then becomes an important tactical choice for an attacker. |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1045
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Posted - 2015.08.07 11:35:41 -
[513] - Quote
Akballah Kassan wrote:Akballah Kassan wrote:Yang Aurilen wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:[quote=mydingaling]The endgame of this brutal space mmo has invincible stations, uncatchable ships and magic space capture wand devices. You know why? Because Goonswarm objected to the idea of destructible stations. Why so you can destroy what groups of people worked for for years and have it go poof. Making stations destructible sets the precedent that even NPC owned stations should be destroyed. Because if no one can have their player owned station why should you be immune in your NPC owned station. They should allow stations to be destroyed, any assets trapped there get teleported to your Capital system. If that is destroyed they get transfered to the nearest low/null npc station. If station is held by an attacker the enemies assets remained trapped in station. Keeping or destroying stations then becomes an important tactical choice for an attacker. The problem with that, is that it could be gamed by defenders in a **** hit the fan scenario. Stations are expensive, but they're not as expensive as a trapped capital fleet, for example. |
Akballah Kassan
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
45
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Posted - 2015.08.07 12:46:55 -
[514] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: The problem with that, is that it could be gamed by defenders in a **** hit the fan scenario. Stations are expensive, but they're not as expensive as a trapped capital fleet, for example.
Not sure I understand what you mean.
If the attackers know an enemy capital fleet is trapped in a station that gets captured the attackers would have a choice to hold the station and trap the capitals or destroy the station for strategic value and let the caps 'escape' to the enemy capital. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2094
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Posted - 2015.08.07 12:55:13 -
[515] - Quote
Akballah Kassan wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: The problem with that, is that it could be gamed by defenders in a **** hit the fan scenario. Stations are expensive, but they're not as expensive as a trapped capital fleet, for example.
Not sure I understand what you mean. If the attackers know an enemy capital fleet is trapped in a station that gets captured the attackers would have a choice to hold the station and trap the capitals or destroy the station for strategic value and let the caps 'escape' to the enemy capital.
What prevent me from having an "accidental" friendly fire incident on the station when I know **** is hitting the fan? |
Akballah Kassan
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
45
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Posted - 2015.08.07 13:44:57 -
[516] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Akballah Kassan wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: The problem with that, is that it could be gamed by defenders in a **** hit the fan scenario. Stations are expensive, but they're not as expensive as a trapped capital fleet, for example.
Not sure I understand what you mean. If the attackers know an enemy capital fleet is trapped in a station that gets captured the attackers would have a choice to hold the station and trap the capitals or destroy the station for strategic value and let the caps 'escape' to the enemy capital. What prevent me from having an "accidental" friendly fire incident on the station when I know **** is hitting the fan?
I must be missing something. How would that effect anything?
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2097
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Posted - 2015.08.07 13:49:39 -
[517] - Quote
Akballah Kassan wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Akballah Kassan wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: The problem with that, is that it could be gamed by defenders in a **** hit the fan scenario. Stations are expensive, but they're not as expensive as a trapped capital fleet, for example.
Not sure I understand what you mean. If the attackers know an enemy capital fleet is trapped in a station that gets captured the attackers would have a choice to hold the station and trap the capitals or destroy the station for strategic value and let the caps 'escape' to the enemy capital. What prevent me from having an "accidental" friendly fire incident on the station when I know **** is hitting the fan? I must be missing something. How would that effect anything?
1- Failcascade happeneing 2- Lots of assets still trapped in station under control but not enough time to form a move/evac OP 3- Rush for shell alliance with a bunch of guy transfering 4- Shoot your station 5- Assets transfered for you to nearest safe station where it can't really be trapped/destroyed
Losing a bunch of suicide dread beat losing an entire staging station worth of assets if you get dropped on anyway. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
1000
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Posted - 2015.08.07 14:13:15 -
[518] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:1- Failcascade happeneing 2- Lots of assets still trapped in station under control but not enough time to form a move/evac OP 3- Rush for shell alliance with a bunch of guy transfering 4- Shoot your station 5- Assets transfered for you to nearest safe station where it can't really be trapped/destroyed
Losing a bunch of suicide dread beat losing an entire staging station worth of assets if you get dropped on anyway. Let us not forget that they are transferred with no chance in hell of being intercepted too (as per suggestion).
We nerfed gun mining, but now people are suggesting gun hauling...
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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John E Normus
The Conference Elite CODE.
625
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Posted - 2015.08.07 15:38:58 -
[519] - Quote
How about if a station gets popped the stuff inside drops right there in a big, cracked station egg wreck?
Teleporting? LOL
Between Ignorance and Wisdom
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2097
|
Posted - 2015.08.07 15:41:57 -
[520] - Quote
John E Normus wrote:How about if a station gets popped the stuff inside drops right there in a big, cracked station egg wreck?
Teleporting? LOL
Let me make a list of the valuable assets alliance will be willing to leave in stations beside the very bare minimum while moving everything else in NPC ones that can't be destroyed.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6528
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Posted - 2015.08.07 17:22:09 -
[521] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:But as ive asked a dozen times before, what exactly keeps you from taking a fleet and kicking your neighbors ass, nothing. What stops all the hard done by "small groups" forming up a giant group and taking sov by force? Nothing. What stops groups actually fighting when they fly into sov holders space rather than bringing shitfit interceptors and running away? Nothing. Don't act like the entire problem is us just because you think it should be our responsibility to work with crappy mechanics.
We could go out and create fights risking our sov in the process while we're deployed. Alternatively we can find likeminded people and arrange content between ourselves with little risk to our space and continue as ever we did during dominion.
The whole idea of this sov systems was to make it fun enough for both sides that people would want to engage with it. Since it's not, there no reason for us to do anything beyond what we used to do, and since it's simpler to both attack and defend, we don;t even need to create the big battles we used to have periodically. This system will create more stagnation than dominion sov. It's not up to us to turn a crappy mechanic into content.
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Stop posting, get off your space butts and find another alliance to entoss and show up when its battle time, easy. No thanks, I'm not into mining structures.
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:And on the issue of stagnant it will change not when CCP comes up with some magic mechanic it will occur when you make it occur. Then it won't happen and null will remain the area we farm between highsec gank ops.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6528
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Posted - 2015.08.07 17:28:28 -
[522] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Why does every discussion of escalation have to come back to BR5? Why does everyone seem to want every fleet engagement to have the possibility of turning into BR5? Yes, it was certainly an impressive engagement in terms of sheer scale but do we really want every battle to turn into an 8-hour 75% TiDi slugfest? I think it's because following BR5 there were international news articles (in mainstream news, not just gaming news) and an influx of new players. That's what drives people to the game. "Come and play whack-a-mole in space" isn't.
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Chosing to not lose everything you own isn't risk aversion, it's common sense. People who live in wormhole space do this all the time. Are you essentially conceding that wormhole dwellers are less risk-averse and more committed to the spirit of EVE than nullsec dewllers? Because if so, I wholeheartedly agree. I definitely would say they are less risk averse, yes. I certainly wouldn't suggest they put as much at risk as would be at risk if stations could explode though. Wormholers on an individual level risk a hell of a lot more than most null line members, but very few risk everything.
Akballah Kassan wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It was stagnant which is why we were in support of the change, but there were still fights. Now it's even more stagnant with considerably less fights and nearly no chance of a large scale battle that hits international news. Your alliance just semi-blued all your new small neighbours who moved into Cloud Ring so your alliance can have no complaints about lack of fights! That's an attempt to generate fights by taking sov off the table during the battles. We won't be blue, we simply won't use entosis links. None of the serious null players want to be messing around with the new sov system more than they absolutely need to. Why? Because it's boring.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6528
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Posted - 2015.08.07 17:30:40 -
[523] - Quote
Akballah Kassan wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:More importantly, why would anyone want to live out of a player owned station if it could be blown up? I guarantee that if they ever put this in you'll see the whole of sov null relocate in and around NPC stations so we can base most of our stuff in indestructible stations yet still use sov space as we do now. Would you still feel that way if stations could be blown up but assets trapped inside get teleported somewhere else once station goes pop? Nope, that would be fine. The problem is I doubt they'd do that. It's more likely to be like the new POS drop mechanics will be, where things appear in cans only you can find and access. The issue with that is the millions or billions of M3 worth of goods some of us have in stations to keep them stocked. Anything short of what you suggest and it will always be better to relocate to NPC null.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1047
|
Posted - 2015.08.07 17:49:29 -
[524] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:And on the issue of stagnant it will change not when CCP comes up with some magic mechanic it will occur when you make it occur. Then it won't happen and null will remain the area we farm between highsec gank ops. I have to agree completely here. The onus is no longer on us. Give us (and the attackers) an actual reason to commit, and to fight, and things might change. Until then, all they've done is change the bandage on a festering wound, without cleaning it first. Looks better, but still infected. |
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2323
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Posted - 2015.08.07 18:40:30 -
[525] - Quote
Like I said, we're not having fun on our own and if they keep letting us come up with 'metas' we wont.
We need to be forced to have fun, we need limitations. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6749
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Posted - 2015.08.07 20:46:13 -
[526] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:And on the issue of stagnant it will change not when CCP comes up with some magic mechanic it will occur when you make it occur. Then it won't happen and null will remain the area we farm between highsec gank ops. I have to agree completely here. The onus is no longer on us. Give us (and the attackers) an actual reason to commit, and to fight, and things might change. Until then, all they've done is change the bandage on a festering wound, without cleaning it first. Looks better, but still infected. Well, null will remain the area that wannabes will have gank ops in between their farming in highsec
Kiandoshia wrote:Like I said, we're not having fun on our own and if they keep letting us come up with 'metas' we wont.
We need to be forced to have fun, we need limitations. More fatigue. More structure lasering and timers will do it.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
450
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Posted - 2015.08.07 21:07:34 -
[527] - Quote
Kiandoshia wrote:.
We need to be forced to have fun, we need limitations.
I vote the quoted sentence to be the saddest ever to be posted on these forums :(
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6749
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Posted - 2015.08.07 21:31:52 -
[528] - Quote
I actually thought it was the ironic type.
we need ccp's vision of nullsec to be thrust in our faces after all
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1047
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Posted - 2015.08.07 21:34:49 -
[529] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:I actually thought it was the ironic type.
we need ccp's vision of nullsec to be thrust in our faces after all It would help if they'd turn on the windshield wipers every once in a while though. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
451
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Posted - 2015.08.07 21:45:28 -
[530] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:I actually thought it was the ironic type.
we need ccp's vision of nullsec to be thrust in our faces after all
It said : "forced to have fun." That is not ironic, it is heartbreakingly sad on a level beyond believe that gamers have succumbed to this state of mind. It is entitlement on God level.
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1047
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Posted - 2015.08.07 21:51:07 -
[531] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:I actually thought it was the ironic type.
we need ccp's vision of nullsec to be thrust in our faces after all It said : "forced to have fun." That is not ironic, it is heartbreakingly sad on a level beyond believe that gamers have succumbed to this state of mind. It is entitlement on God level. This is what happens when you leave humans to their own devices. Efficiency will always supersede fun. If you looks at nearly any game (especially mmos), early mystique and wonder pretty rapidly give way to min/maxing, theorycrafting, and in the case of Eve, metagaming on a ridiculously high level.
Those who do not adopt these things, quickly find themselves in the dustbin. That's where fun in any sort of competitive game lands you. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
326
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Posted - 2015.08.07 22:34:25 -
[532] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Eli Stan wrote:Eli Stan wrote: (The Yrton constellation in Cloud Ring has been interesting to watch, though. Go check out how often Sov has flipped there since, and just prior to, Aegis.)
By my count, a sixth alliance has made a claim to a system in the Yrton constellation. SpaceMonkey's Alliance Quantum Collective (Technically, IIRC, SMA gave the systems to these guys just before Aegis Sov hit.) Notoriously Incompetent. V.e.G.A. Mercenary Coalition Boys without pants Now up to TCUs from seven different alliances since Aegis implementation. OSS, the alliance of Black Omega Security, has put down a TCU. Small alliance Boys without pants (SLIP) had a run-in with BL, I see, and lost a few Mallers and Augorors.
And now eight! Welcome, Suddenly Spaceships. Looks like Boys without pants is declining to defend their claim. OSS, MC and VEGA continue to have TCUs up.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5561
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Posted - 2015.08.07 22:56:53 -
[533] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I think it's because following BR5 there were international news articles (in mainstream news, not just gaming news) and an influx of new players. That's what drives people to the game. "Come and play whack-a-mole in space" isn't. It drove a lot of people to the game, who promptly left when they discovered that nullsec fights like that happen incredibly seldom because even in the days of BR-5 the vast majority of nullsec was blue to each other.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13999
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Posted - 2015.08.08 01:04:07 -
[534] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I think it's because following BR5 there were international news articles (in mainstream news, not just gaming news) and an influx of new players. That's what drives people to the game. "Come and play whack-a-mole in space" isn't. It drove a lot of people to the game, who promptly left when they discovered that nullsec fights like that happen incredibly seldom because even in the days of BR-5 the vast majority of nullsec was blue to each other.
And now they just straight up don't happen. Which is apparently... better?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Anna Phylaxxis
Gurlz with Gunz
4
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Posted - 2015.08.08 02:34:10 -
[535] - Quote
I didn't join because of some videos of big battles. I just know it means I'll be fodder/meatshield for X years until until I graduate to pee-on status. Seems like a job to me, but I can respect those who do it well. It probably took alot of time and effort to get to that point. I'd like to try null, but don't want to be a piddle-in-a-puddle. So it's off to lowsec for me it seems...
I joined because I get to be a *****, shoot at whoever/whatever I want, die alot and otherwise just enjoy laughing with other people who just want to have fun playing a game. Eve is awesome game, so I can't see all the complaining on the forums
I do hope you guys get things worked out though. Just do like I do and shoot everything! Way too much fun
Anaphylaxis Emergency Plan
Everyone at risk for anaphylaxis should have an anaphylaxis emergency plan with clear instructions on how to treat symptoms and strategies to reduce risks.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6749
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Posted - 2015.08.08 03:36:46 -
[536] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I think it's because following BR5 there were international news articles (in mainstream news, not just gaming news) and an influx of new players. That's what drives people to the game. "Come and play whack-a-mole in space" isn't. It drove a lot of people to the game, who promptly left when they discovered that nullsec fights like that happen incredibly seldom because even in the days of BR-5 the vast majority of nullsec was blue to each other. And now they just straight up don't happen. Which is apparently... better? The problem is it also got a bunch of people to join us from our forums.
And they're still here, affecting the balance of blobpower
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5562
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Posted - 2015.08.08 06:19:53 -
[537] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And now they just straight up don't happen. Which is apparently... better? Ultimately you can only lay so much blame at the feet of CCP for that.
This thread is wall-to-wall nullsec whining about how the game mechanics don't let them get the nullsec experience they want, but it just straight up does not seem like nullsec knows what it wants. CFC wax lyrical about how the new jump and sov mechanics are stagnating nullsec, while at the same time telling me "we can easily get around jump fatigue and new sov, we have the numbers to ignore them." People constantly whine about the fact that jump fatigue utterly stifles the possibility of warfare on the scale of BR-5 and how the new mechanics are even more hostile to small groups, yet at the same time make out like Pandemic Legion and other groups being able to deploy carriers to anywhere in the game within 15 minutes was somehow a good thing. You say people who can't defend what they own don't deserve to own it yet you're complaining more about solo interceptors with entosis links than you are about entire fleets. You say that entosis makes the game boring yet there wasn't a day that went by before Aegis' release when General Discusison did not have a thread whining about the tedium of nullsec structure bashing.
CCP has a habit of occasionally making utterly terrible decisions but one thing I've got to say in their defence is that for the sake of Christ, they're at least trying to get you bastards out of your coalitions and fighting over nullsec again. Team 5-0 is like the goddamn giant panda breeders desperately trying to work out what ridiculous combination of aphrodisiacs, niche pornography and low-grade toxins they need to pump into your cage to get you guys to make a move on each other. They're bound to make some ****-ups because you guys are actively resisting the process. Every change CCP makes is met with universal consternation and disdain, as if CCP have no clue what they're doing - of course they don't know what they're doing, how the hell would they know if you guys keep demanding something and do nothing with the tools they try to give you?
There are tens of thousands of subscribed players in nullsec. If you wanted war, there's nothing in the world bad game mechanics could do to stop you short of dropping all input from the F1 key. If you wanted an end to powerblocs and coalitions, you could voluntarily shut them down yourselves. If you wanted smaller organisations to have a chance you could stop pouncing on them at every opportunity. At any point you could simply decide you don't like the look of a neighbour's face and try to rearrange it.
I remain convinced that CCP could acquiesce to every demand a nullsec player has made since the release of Phoebe and you guys would still be sitting around wondering where the gudfites are.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6749
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Posted - 2015.08.08 06:52:23 -
[538] - Quote
This thread might as well be people trying to use a sov laser and being chased off then running elsewhere to use the sov laser.
Every sovlaser cycle is equivalent to one post.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Colonel Midnight
Sin Sensation
0
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Posted - 2015.08.08 07:39:42 -
[539] - Quote
Ive been running about, capping nodes all day long for 30 days and I have a feeling I did not advance anywhere. Still at no sov, no chance of success, no options in 0.0
1) small alliances cannot hold space long enough before some ceptor fleet passes by and drives you back to square one. Which kinda forces you to join a larger alliance / coalition, which pretty much gets you back into either RUS block, Goons, Darkness, NC. or a corp which will eventually be a pet cemetery.
2) someone wrote somewhere "..if you cant fight off a ceptor fleet, you dont deserve space...". well, about a week before the fozzie horsepooppeddling, we were about to take sov in 1 system. WHOOPEEEE for us, the small guys!!! Now? We cant take ****. Just run around and run and run and run.
3) running around in solo ceptors gets you killed. The only thing that seems interesting to me now is to fit out a dramiel, buff up the pod with speed boosts and run around chasing ceptors that are trying to cap nodes.
4) At this rate, I only see systems getting their iHubs to 4 in deep space regions. Now we as the small guys, can only bend over and find us a good fuckbuddy which will not **** us to the extreme and allow us some space in the ******** of the universe. Or we keep fighting the 500+ man alliances in the vicinity of the low sec borderlands and maybe, just ******* maybe, will we someday be able to fly cruiser / bc fleets and fight someplace for sov and giggles. .
At this point, low / hi sec seems like better space.
PS - ****, Im angry!!! Aaaaaaargh!!!! |
PAPULA
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
70
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Posted - 2015.08.08 07:53:42 -
[540] - Quote
Super boring, i fell asleep taking nodes with my noob ship, no more big fights, and everyone with noob ship can now take system.
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