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Predator Nyx
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Seriously. Why invent a more primitive and generally worse performing wheel when you can either use the unreal engine or any other tried and true method?
This would obviously cut dev time, increase the performance of WIS on more computers, and let the dev focus on gameplay instead of dynamic lighting and lens flares! |

Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
495
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Predator Nyx wrote:Seriously. Why invent a more primitive and generally worse performing wheel when you can either use the unreal engine or any other tried and true method?
This would obviously cut dev time, increase the performance of WIS on more computers, and let the dev focus on gameplay instead of dynamic lighting and lens flares!
can you actually use unreal for a persistent mmog?
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |

DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
494
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because CCP don't want a separate .exe for each time you're docked, maybe? |

Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
455
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Predator Nyx wrote:Seriously. Why invent a more primitive and generally worse performing wheel when you can either use the unreal engine or any other tried and true method?
This would obviously cut dev time, increase the performance of WIS on more computers, and let the dev focus on gameplay instead of dynamic lighting and lens flares!
Money v0v |

GeoffWICE
Grey Nomads Combat Mining and Logistics
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Morganta wrote: can you actually use unreal for a persistent mmog?
yes. having done some mod stuff with unreal engin before it can be done. the only issue is the number of players per system it would be able to handle. |

GeoffWICE
Grey Nomads Combat Mining and Logistics
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Because CCP don't want a separate .exe for each time you're docked, maybe? dont need a seperate exe, use unreal for the whole of eve |

Jack bubu
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
98
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
GeoffWICE wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Because CCP don't want a separate .exe for each time you're docked, maybe? dont need a seperate exe, use unreal for the whole of eve wat |

DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
494
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
GeoffWICE wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Because CCP don't want a separate .exe for each time you're docked, maybe? dont need a seperate exe, use unreal for the whole of eve
 |

Inir Ishtori
Perkone Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Morganta wrote:Predator Nyx wrote:Seriously. Why invent a more primitive and generally worse performing wheel when you can either use the unreal engine or any other tried and true method?
This would obviously cut dev time, increase the performance of WIS on more computers, and let the dev focus on gameplay instead of dynamic lighting and lens flares! can you actually use unreal for a persistent mmog? look at dem koreans doing stuff with unreal engine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTcCmiJl7tI |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
251
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
GeoffWICE wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Because CCP don't want a separate .exe for each time you're docked, maybe? dont need a seperate exe, use unreal for the whole of eve Mother of god, this post. |

Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
496
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
GeoffWICE wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Because CCP don't want a separate .exe for each time you're docked, maybe? dont need a seperate exe, use unreal for the whole of eve
/slits wrists
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |

Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
128
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Predator Nyx wrote:Seriously. Why invent a more primitive and generally worse performing wheel when you can either use the unreal engine or any other tried and true method?
This would obviously cut dev time, increase the performance of WIS on more computers, and let the dev focus on gameplay instead of dynamic lighting and lens flares!
Because the Unreal engine requires licensing fees, and they ain't cheap.
Epic charges $2,500 per development seat (that is, $2,500 for each computer that uses the UDK for development), plus a payment of $2,500 on the first $50,000 in revenue, plus a 25% royalty on any 'UDK-related revenue' thereafter:
Quote: UDK related revenue includes, but is not limited to, monies earned from: sales, services, training, advertisements, sponsorships, endorsements, memberships, subscription fees, in-game transactions, rentals and pay-to-play.
(excerpted from the Epic UDK Licensing page, at http://www.udk.com/licensing ) |

Lazarus Bavon
RPSH Derp Academy
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Predator Nyx wrote:Seriously. Why invent a more primitive and generally worse performing wheel when you can either use the unreal engine or any other tried and true method?
This would obviously cut dev time, increase the performance of WIS on more computers, and let the dev focus on gameplay instead of dynamic lighting and lens flares!
Because recreating the game from scratch in another engine would take so long and cost them so much money the idea is laughable? You don't put years and years of work into an engine then ditch it just because "Oh why not?".
That's pretty dumb. |

Jerhboa
0 BULL
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Astrid Stjerna wrote:Predator Nyx wrote:Seriously. Why invent a more primitive and generally worse performing wheel when you can either use the unreal engine or any other tried and true method?
This would obviously cut dev time, increase the performance of WIS on more computers, and let the dev focus on gameplay instead of dynamic lighting and lens flares! Because the Unreal engine requires licensing fees, and they ain't cheap. Epic charges $2,500 per development seat (that is, $2,500 for each computer that uses the UDK for development), plus a payment of $2,500 on the first $50,000 in revenue, plus a 25% royalty on any 'UDK-related revenue' thereafter: Quote: UDK related revenue includes, but is not limited to, monies earned from: sales, services, training, advertisements, sponsorships, endorsements, memberships, subscription fees, in-game transactions, rentals and pay-to-play.
(excerpted from the Epic UDK Licensing page, at http://www.udk.com/licensing )
Beat me to that one.
Even if they licensed the engine, they would still have to create all of the back-end systems using Python, which they are currently using anyways, so there would be almost no improvement in terms of performance. |

Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
380
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Licensing costs maybe..? The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |

Beaches
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Inir Ishtori wrote:Morganta wrote:Predator Nyx wrote:Seriously. Why invent a more primitive and generally worse performing wheel when you can either use the unreal engine or any other tried and true method?
This would obviously cut dev time, increase the performance of WIS on more computers, and let the dev focus on gameplay instead of dynamic lighting and lens flares! can you actually use unreal for a persistent mmog? look at dem koreans doing stuff with unreal engine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTcCmiJl7tI
unreal is too mainstream for ccp |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Also, all of you who think it's performing badly, have you tried turning it down from maximum quality? For me the difference is 30 vs 60 fps. As to how **** the graphics look, I pretty much don't care, I'm still happily playing games like KOTOR 1 every now and again and I'm still content. Graphical glitz matters little past the initial few minutes of "whoa", I'd much rather they spent their time making mechanics that make sense, and makes the gaming experience itself more fun and more immersive. vOv |

Dusty Meg
Redbull Air Race Inc
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dust uses a modified version of the unreal engine so dont think the licensing issues are there. |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
494
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
You know the performance issue in CQ is interesting anyway.
I was mildly disappointed when I found that even at lower settings my Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS (a fairly outdated card now) slowed down to 5 fps when in the CQ.
Finally I decided it was time to clean the guts of my computer, and discovered that the fan had gotten a bit clogged on the video card.
After I cleaned it and popped it back in I was pleasantly surprised to find that not only could I now turn the graphics up to maximum, I was getting 15-20 fps at that level.
Point being, people getting really poor frame rates or over heating their cards really, really should bite the bullet and actually give that card a good cleaning. I know it's a crap job that nobody wants to do, but it very well could improve your entire EVE experience and is well worth the trouble. Revenge should not stop at the ship!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |

tgl3
Wormhole Engineers Review and Evaluation Greater Realms
18
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Posted - 2011.12.08 23:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
GeoffWICE wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Because CCP don't want a separate .exe for each time you're docked, maybe? dont need a seperate exe, use unreal for the whole of eve /o\ |

Beaches
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Also, all of you who think it's performing badly, have you tried turning it down from maximum quality? For me the difference is 30 vs 60 fps. As to how **** the graphics look, I pretty much don't care, I'm still happily playing games like KOTOR 1 every now and again and I'm still content. Graphical glitz matters little past the initial few minutes of "whoa", I'd much rather they spent their time making mechanics that make sense, and makes the gaming experience itself more fun and more immersive. vOv
I think that CCP's thought process was a little bit like
"Hmm, the better this looks, the more they'll probably pay for the NEX items. Let's hire some design consultants who can make clothes which will live up to these graphics. Oh yeah, beautiful graphics, designer clothes they will be blown away by this stunning glitz, they'll pay top dollar. Gah, I am so excited." |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
To be fair, everyone is focusing way too much on graphics these days. Back in the doom/quake days, it had merit, because great strides were being made all the time. These days, improvements are incremental at best, yet people are still actually ragging on eachother because "your game has worse graphics than my game, therefore my game is better than your game", even though both games, gameplay-wise, is **** and has 5 hours of SP gameplay. All the while games budgets spiral out of control due to all the art etc that has to be created.
vOv |

GeoffWICE
Grey Nomads Combat Mining and Logistics
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
dont get me wrong, im not saying that ccp should use unreal, just saying it would be posible with the excetion being number of players in any given system. its not like eve in its current form doesnt have that issue anyway its just that the numbers will be diferent. |

Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
128
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dusty Meg wrote:Dust uses a modified version of the unreal engine so dont think the licensing issues are there.
A number of PS3 games use the Unreal engine, but whether license fees apply is dependent on how 'modified' the engine actually is. If it's still substantially the Unreal engine in terms of programming, the fees are still valid, but if it's been modified to the point where it's no longer recognizable as 'the Unreal Engine', I think separate regulations apply. |

Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
the now-cancelled Stargate Worlds was planned to be a persistent MMO that would use some variety of UE3, so at least in theory it should be relatively possible. The Order of the Falcon or Hin +¡slenska f+ílkaor+¦a is a national Order of Iceland |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
551
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 00:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Something about warp targets and character creativity at reduced memory costs.
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1983
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 00:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dusty Meg wrote:Dust uses a modified version of the unreal engine so dont think the licensing issues are there. GǪexcept for it being a smaller team; the engine them instant-access middleware for a completely different platform; the engine being used for what it does best (and at a scale that it's known to handle well); and except that they're building that game from scratch rather than trying to squeeze an existing game into it.
So licensing for that purpose and that team is cheaper than trying to roll it alone, unlike EVE/WoD. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 01:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Because they wanted to do their own engine for WoD, as they did for EVE. |

Bane Loppknow
Aliastra Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 01:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:You know the performance issue in CQ is interesting anyway.
I was mildly disappointed when I found that even at lower settings my Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS (a fairly outdated card now) slowed down to 5 fps when in the CQ.
Finally I decided it was time to clean the guts of my computer, and discovered that the fan had gotten a bit clogged on the video card.
After I cleaned it and popped it back in I was pleasantly surprised to find that not only could I now turn the graphics up to maximum, I was getting 15-20 fps at that level.
Point being, people getting really poor frame rates or over heating their cards really, really should bite the bullet and actually give that card a good cleaning. I know it's a crap job that nobody wants to do, but it very well could improve your entire EVE experience and is well worth the trouble.
You expect people to conduct basic maintenance on their computers?! |

non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
179
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 02:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:You know the performance issue in CQ is interesting anyway.
I was mildly disappointed when I found that even at lower settings my Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS (a fairly outdated card now) slowed down to 5 fps when in the CQ.
Finally I decided it was time to clean the guts of my computer, and discovered that the fan had gotten a bit clogged on the video card.
After I cleaned it and popped it back in I was pleasantly surprised to find that not only could I now turn the graphics up to maximum, I was getting 15-20 fps at that level.
Point being, people getting really poor frame rates or over heating their cards really, really should bite the bullet and actually give that card a good cleaning. I know it's a crap job that nobody wants to do, but it very well could improve your entire EVE experience and is well worth the trouble. I have a geforce 9800 GT and I can run 4 clients okay with medium settings. Even in CQ which is meant to be worse. I really didn't know what all the fuss was about. Of course it does get a bit hot, I haven't checked the temp of it but my computer has it only crashed once or twice and that was mainly due to really hot days. The days that it gets over 33-¦C outside and my room gets a bit too hot for running 4 EVE clients. But on those days I'm mostly trying to keep cool and don't really want to sit next to my hot computer. I thought about getting a new video card but it seems to be doing okay for the moment.
On the note of WiS. When I was watching the fanfest videos of some of it. I got the feeling like they were saying that it would scale well and have nice graphics whether you had lots of avatars in a room or not. Did people start thinking CCPs technology couldn't handle many avatars in the one room when the CQ first came out and it was "melting" video cards? I haven't seen much information from CCP recently about how well WiS can handle lots of people in the one room since CQ came out. Wouldn't want to make assumptions about it and then start saying why not use other engines. We haven't really seen what this one can do.
Edit: We all know Jita can reach well over 1000 in station. I like to think that CCP would work towards having something that can handle Jita before releasing WiS. |
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