Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Vendraen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 11:01:37 -
[1] - Quote
Are the DPS figures displayed in EFT anywhere remotely accurate?
I ask because I continually see people quoting this or that ship as able to put out certain DPS figures and typically I plug the fit into ETF and get back something like 1/5th or less of what was stated. (e.g, someone said Ship X can do 500 DPS - EFT displays around 100).
And that's with putting in affecting skills to V.
|
Livonia Velorea
The Fiendish Pixies
50
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 11:17:26 -
[2] - Quote
Can't say much in regards to EFT specifically since I use Pyfa but sometimes people will neglect to mention the fact they are sporting high value implants.+6% damage and +6% rate of fire for example. Other than that it might be something more to do will using EFT but I just wouldn't know.
I pew you too! <3
|
Vendraen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 11:21:57 -
[3] - Quote
Hmmm, I'll see what Pyfa says - thanks for reminding me there's another tool. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24580
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 12:03:14 -
[4] - Quote
Implants, faction gear etc all make a difference. In addition to EFT and Pyfa there's also EveHQ.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Vendraen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 12:09:50 -
[5] - Quote
Now that the API is back online, I tried out Pyfa; it more or less agrees with EFT (off by maybe 10-20 DPS, nothing major).
Is someone willing to work through an example with me? Take say a low end ship like a Caracal, see what DPS figures it "should" hit with gear obtainable and riskable by mortals (LOL!) and see why my figures are so far off? O_o
|
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
4231
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 12:14:45 -
[6] - Quote
Can you give us the fit you're testing, and the numbers you were told it would get?
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
|
Vendraen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 12:19:01 -
[7] - Quote
Azda Ja wrote:Can you give us the fit you're testing, and the numbers you were told it would get?
Well, not exactly! :D
Thing is, I've been reading a **** ton of posts, blogs, watching Youtube videos, etc, etc, etc, and there's a lot of info out there, much of it, I realize, may be either hyperbole, or from players that can afford to lose a billion ISK.
So what I'm hoping to do is to start from square one. Take a Caracal with a standard mission fit. RLML's, a couple of BCU's, no T2 stuff as I can afford to buy it but can't afford to LOSE it (so I'm not going to fly it). What kind of DPS should that thing put out? Pyfa is showing me 141, EFT is showing me 166. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1290
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 12:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
1. post the entire fit 2. Which skill set are you using (all Vs or your own api)
|
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
4231
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 12:52:01 -
[9] - Quote
Are you using the first fit listed here?
[Caracal, Budget PvE fitting] Rapid Light Missile Launcher I Rapid Light Missile Launcher I Rapid Light Missile Launcher I Rapid Light Missile Launcher I Rapid Light Missile Launcher I
Large Shield Extender I Large Shield Extender I Thermic Dissipation Field I Kinetic Deflection Field I 10MN Afterburner I
Ballistic Control System I Ballistic Control System I Shield Power Relay I Shield Power Relay I
Hobgoblin I x2
This gets 222 dps with Caldari Navy missiles on a all 5 skilled character, so you'll be looking at less than that. They don't call it 'Budget' for nothing though, the fit costs 12 mil total.
[Caracal, Budget PvE fitting]
Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Shield Power Relay I Shield Power Relay I
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I Limited Kinetic Deflection Field I 10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Experimental SV-2000 Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile Experimental SV-2000 Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile Experimental SV-2000 Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile Experimental SV-2000 Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile Experimental SV-2000 Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I [Empty Rig slot]
Hobgoblin I x2
This one costs 18 mil and puts out 304 dps on an all 5 character. Rigs, use them.
The quality of gear definitely makes a difference, but don't start facion/deadspace fitting your ships. T2 is very popular because it gives a huge performance boost for minimal cost, however, T2 modules tend to have skill requirements and are generally harder to fit.
When you see people throwing out numbers of X ship can do Y dps without linking a fit, take it with a grain of salt. Fits can vary wildly, and give you completely different numbers. I have Caracal fits with 35k ehp (effective hit points) and others with only 15k, but go 2300 m/s. You fit a ship to do something specific. The longer play and EFT warrior, the more fits you're going to have saved.
Disclaimer: I know nothing about missioning and am generally ignorant of PVE mechanics and practices. It does strike me as odd to recommend a RLM Caracal for missions though, the 35 second reload time is awful, if it's a short mission it might not matter, but for longer oes it could get annoying. I'll leave someone els to give you a better fit, I just wanted to give you 2 fits to compare.
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
|
Vendraen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 12:58:51 -
[10] - Quote
Azda Ja wrote:Are you using the first fit listed here?
Kind of, I have some named RLML's instead of those generic ones. Named shield tank too, but that doesn't affect DPS.
The DPS numbers you quote match what I'm seeing.
So, basically what I'm seeing is the difference between internet forum hyperbole and in-game reality.
Good - thank you. This is exactly what I needed to know. :) |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24582
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 13:01:31 -
[11] - Quote
^^@ Azda
Rapid launchers do have their place in PvE, although I believe that they're more of a specialist PvE fit; for example I use Baltec's RHML Raven fit for blitzing level 3's for LP.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Vendraen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 13:06:50 -
[12] - Quote
(Caracal does have a 5% RoF bonus for RLML's - I think that's why so many fits use them.) |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24583
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 13:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vendraen wrote:(Caracal does have a 5% RoF bonus for RLML's - I think that's why so many fits use them.) Heh that's fair enough, RLMLs didn't exist the last time I flew a Caracal.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1165
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 15:07:23 -
[14] - Quote
I have never found EFT to be inaccurate, it's very well maintained. If the numbers don't match what you see in game, it's usually a sign you forgot something (using wrong ammo....didn't load the drones, etc.)
If they don't match what you see on the internet, either
1. They are using boosters, implants, or links to improve the raw stats of the fit 2. They are quoting "overheated" DPS or tank (which is temporary - EFT shows this if you right click the little green check next to the module) 3. It's an old post which is no longer applicable due to ship or module changes 4. The internet got it wrong or exaggerated (it's not uncommon for someone to balllpark estimate and be wrong when posting without getting corrected). 5. Your version of EFT is out of date
Vendraen wrote:(Caracal does have a 5% RoF bonus for RLML's - I think that's why so many fits use them.) Keep in mind that the very long reload time is the main drawback of rapid lights. A RoF bonus does increase your DPS, but it also means you spend less time shooting before you have to reload, which is boring. I have used a RLML Caracal for level 2s in the past, and it works ok because there are a lot of frigates which you can take out quickly. But as they've said, it's sort of niche.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Vendraen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 15:15:02 -
[15] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Keep in mind that the very long reload time is the main drawback of rapid lights. A RoF bonus does increase your DPS, but it also means you spend less time shooting before you have to reload, which is boring. I have used a RLML Caracal for level 2s in the past, and it works ok because there are a lot of frigates which you can take out quickly. But as they've said, it's sort of niche.
I'm starting to see that I hate the RLML gig. 35s annoys me, much like you said. But yeah they do make mission frigates go "boom" in short order.
Too bad I have so much invested in missiles. The more I play the more I dislike missiles. Ah well. At least there's no skillcap in EVE. :D
|
Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1168
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 15:43:11 -
[16] - Quote
Vendraen wrote:I'm starting to see that I hate the RLML gig. 35s annoys me, much like you said. But yeah they do make mission frigates go "boom" in short order. Another thing you can try is HAMs or Heavies, and fit rigor rigs on your ship for better application to frigates. With a couple rigors and a web you will still apply most of your damage to a frigate, while doing higher DPS to cruisers and up. Maybe slightly less applied DPS to frigs than rapid lights, but none of that 35 second reload just to finish off the last two ships.
Rigor rigs are amazing and widely overlooked. The web is pretty important as well. A target painter can be used instead for longer range, but is less effective than the web. If you like to EFT warrior, you can play with the DPS graphs to see the various effects of these application mods against different size targets.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Vendraen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 15:47:58 -
[17] - Quote
Thanks again, Cara. This may be a wiser course of action than the insanity I was planning (involving ~30 days of training into Artillery, LOL.)
It's probably best to leverage the things I've already trained, at this early stage in my EVE life. And right now, that's definitely missile and drone skills. :D
|
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
4232
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 18:22:52 -
[18] - Quote
Vendraen wrote: It's probably best to leverage the things I've already trained, at this early stage in my EVE life.
Yes, with one exception, unless you WANT to train for something else . From an efficiency stand point though specialization is highly rewarded. Don't forget that the HAMs and Heavies are also bonused on the Caracal, so you aren't 'wasting' the hull bonus by using them.
http://blog.beyondreality.se/Newbie-skill-plan-2
This is a popular skill plan to use/ recommend for new players. It's goal is to be as effective, in the widest variety of hulls as possible as quickly as possible, do take a look at it even if you choose not follow, the introduction is a good thing to keep in mind when making plans.
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1389
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 20:25:01 -
[19] - Quote
RLML on a caracal with fury missiles will do about 400 dps, until you factor in the reload time and it drops to 200something. There is a check box in EFT's settings that says "Include reload time in dps"
there is also the consideration of what ammo are they using. fury missiles show a lot of eft dps, but can have trouble applying to targets. sometimes you want to use them, sometimes you don't. Also are they using heat?
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Valerian STA
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 22:03:29 -
[20] - Quote
My DPS are never enough... curiously, it also happens with my tanking.
If you compare the same source with the same source, regarding alterations, it will be fine. The Truth it's only accessible to the Gods. Don't bother too much with it.
I bother much more with cloaked alts, friends, T3 tactical ships and all those surprises that appears right on top of you, whatever your DPS are.
Get philosophical.
Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
|
|
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
363
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 23:10:18 -
[21] - Quote
Vendraen wrote:I plug the fit into ETF and get back something like 1/5th or less of what was stated. If your numbers are that far off in EFT it probably means they are using a module that you are not skilled for. EFT will allow you to manually configure any implants a character is using and even account for links.
Vendraen wrote:(involving ~30 days of training into Artillery, LOL.) If you don't like waiting for RML's you probably won't like artillery either.
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
691
|
Posted - 2015.08.12 01:21:33 -
[22] - Quote
Things that can effect EFT numbers which might be not-so-obvious:
overheating figuring or not figuring reload time into DPS calcs implants boosters special ammo (T2 faction etc...) figuring or not figuring in drone dps to total dps number.
Also worth noting that paper dps is not actual dps. paper dps is like a best case senario basically. There are other things like tracking and explosion velocity that can reduce your dps that the standard dps screen on apps like EFT do not figure in. EFT does have a dps graph that is supposed to help figure that in given certain parameters but I'm not that familiar with how to use it and you can not garuntee that you can maintain those parameters. It's more like info to help you figure out how to pilot the ship not garuntee certain numbers. |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |