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Rek Seven
The Scope Gallente Federation
1986
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Posted - 2015.08.14 12:02:02 -
[1] - Quote
Would it be a bad idea to allow sov holders to designate one system per region as a market hub, and then have that system behave similar to high sec?
Details:
* The market hub would be a high-sec-like NPC police (or concord) patrolled system * You can cyno in to this system * The system would be surrounded by null sec systems * When sovereignty of that region is lost, the market hub becomes null sec again
I think this would be a good way to develop null sec industry and remove the reliance on Jita.
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4569
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Posted - 2015.08.14 12:15:44 -
[2] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I think this would be a good way to develop null sec industry and remove the reliance on Jita. But how would they double my ISK?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2636
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Posted - 2015.08.14 12:25:17 -
[3] - Quote
Jita is what it is because of the massive population of hi-sec, not safety. These same hi-sec players would not trade at remote systems of hi sec surrounded by null sec. They dont have jump freighters, they dont want to run a null sec gauntlet, they dont want to travel far. They'd just keep buying and selling at jita and null sec blocks will keep trading where the population of goods is highest.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
210
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Posted - 2015.08.14 12:28:17 -
[4] - Quote
If an alliance wants a system like this, they can designate it all they want, but they have to patrol it themselves. That's the sandbox.
The only way I could ever support players turning their 0.0 into highsec is if they had to pay Concord to designate a system high-sec and patrol it for them. The higher sec you want, the higher the cost. And I would say make it EXORBITANTLY high.
Like: 0.5 = 60 billion/month 0.6 = 80 billion/month 0.7 = 100 billion/month 0.8 = 150 billion/month 0.9 = 200 billion/month 1.0 = 500 billion/month (or more, to make it totally ridiculous. just as you barely see 1.0 in empire, because Concord changes the empires a ton based on sec level)
Extreme ISK sink! Should it be even higher? I have no idea what kind of monthly income say... Goonswarm has.
However... systems made into high-sec would BE HIGHSEC. That means NO CYNOs. Everything would be exactly like a highsec system of the same level.
I'm interested now.
+0.5 to my own idea
The UI update we deserve
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Rek Seven
The Scope Gallente Federation
1986
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Posted - 2015.08.14 12:30:27 -
[5] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Jita is what it is because of the massive population of hi-sec, not safety. These same hi-sec players would not trade at remote systems of hi sec surrounded by null sec. They dont have jump freighters, they dont want to run a null sec gauntlet, they dont want to travel far. They'd just keep buying and selling at jita and null sec blocks will keep trading where the population of goods is highest.
So you think Jita would be as it is if it were a null sec system?
The idea isn't to make industrialists move from high sec market hubs to nul sec market hubs. It's to make null sec industry just as viable and lucrative as it is in high sec.
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2638
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Posted - 2015.08.14 12:54:07 -
[6] - Quote
If the vast majority of players lived in null sec, then market hubs would appear there.
But the fact is over 80% of the game's population lives in hi-sec. So all the trading happens there. Thera is a trade hub but its WH space. It's the fact that enough players can get there easily and frequently enough that makes it a hub.
Explain to me why a high sec islands in null sec regions would encourage trading or industry?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
108
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Posted - 2015.08.14 12:59:37 -
[7] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Jita is what it is because of the massive population of hi-sec, not safety. These same hi-sec players would not trade at remote systems of hi sec surrounded by null sec. They dont have jump freighters, they dont want to run a null sec gauntlet, they dont want to travel far. They'd just keep buying and selling at jita and null sec blocks will keep trading where the population of goods is highest. So you think Jita would be as it is if it were a null sec system? The idea isn't to make industrialists move from high sec market hubs to nullsec market hubs. It's to make null sec industry just as viable and lucrative as it is in high sec.
Jita is what it is, because it's in the middle of everything. Not because of HS, or whatever else. Also, looking at ganks number, Jita see more "PvP" activity than most of nullsec combined. Jita is definitely NOT a "safe" place.
Also, there are big market hubs in low&null. Just look at markets in stagings of coalitions/alliance. Why is there nothing in NPC Null & most of lowsec? Because NPC Null dwellers and small alliances in LS don't have the logistics to supply a full market. They bring what they need through JFs, or Blops bridging blockade runners. They just don't seed market, because they don't want neighbors. Neighbors in NPC Null & LS just mean trouble anyway.
Also, nullsec is not dependent on HS anymore. There are now enough low-end ores in null to build crap. But, it is more lucrative to mine high-end minerals in null, sell those in high-sec and bring back low-end minerals while travelling back. Because logistic is still way too easy at the moment.
But, don't worry, CCP stated that they would most likely remove/rework the jump fatigue bonus on JFs&industrials, when done with tweaking sov. You'll have your null-sec local trade hubs. Not because of how better null-sec will be, but because of how much of a hassle moving back&forth will be.
(Also, HighSec prices will most likely rise because of the difficulty to bring high-end minerals and T2 material from null. Start stockpiling now.)
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Rek Seven
The Scope Gallente Federation
1986
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Posted - 2015.08.14 13:08:06 -
[8] - Quote
Good points, Nyalnara! Thanks.
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
440
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Posted - 2015.08.14 13:46:10 -
[9] - Quote
Nyalnara wrote:Jita is what it is, because it's in the middle of everything. Not because of HS, or whatever else. Also, looking at ganks number, Jita see more "PvP" activity than most of nullsec combined. Jita is definitely NOT a "safe" place. I disagree with most of this. Your are right that Jits is because of it's physical location close to the center of the EvE universe. You are wrong about the sec status having little or no affect. As you so aptly point out the nul groups will go to sell where they can get the best prices with the least hassles and that was, is and always will be in high sec since that is where the vast majority of the games players live. And yes Jita is "safe" compared to a trade hub located in low or nul.
Nyalnara wrote:Also, nullsec is not dependent on HS anymore. There are now enough low-end ores in null to build crap. But, it is more lucrative to mine high-end minerals in null, sell those in high-sec and bring back low-end minerals while travelling back. Because logistic is still way too easy at the moment.
But, don't worry, CCP stated that they would most likely remove/rework the jump fatigue bonus on JFs&industrials, when done with tweaking sov. You'll have your null-sec local trade hubs. Not because of how better null-sec will be, but because of how much of a hassle moving back&forth will be. See first paragraph in this quoted segment. While I understand the theory behind dropping the jump fatigue bonus the jump freighter have I hope CCP is smart enough to realize that the quoted segment below may very well come true if they did and that would be a very bad thing for the game. Prices for the higher end ships modules (referring to those player made items only) are already having a negative affect on many players in high sec and I fear that further increased prices will make it even worse.
Nyalnara wrote:(Also, HighSec prices will most likely rise because of the difficulty to bring high-end minerals and T2 material from null. Start stockpiling now.) Yes I know you don't give a damn about high sec and their problems and if that is your attitude then you need to seriously reconsidert. Daichi Yamato states that 80% of the game players live in high sec, from what little I have read on the subject I was thinking in the 70% to 75% range. However when you get into that range the actual percentage is not relevant as it is still high enough to cause major problems if there was a mass exodus of high sec players from the game. And that is precisely what I fear will happen if the last quoted segment comes true. In the corp that this character is CEO of we have lost more than a dozen players in the last year because of ISK income gap. Prices on the average for the player made higher end ships / modules are as the popular phrase goes "trending up" at the same time that CCP has the ability of these players to make ISK "trending downwards" and that is not a way to encourage players to stay around. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2640
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Posted - 2015.08.14 13:57:33 -
[10] - Quote
I dont know if making battleships more expensive will make hisec players leave. It may in fact have the opposite effect by preventing them from meeting their goals as quickly and getting bored after that.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
108
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Posted - 2015.08.14 14:17:18 -
[11] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:While I understand the theory behind dropping the jump fatigue bonus the jump freighter have I hope CCP is smart enough to realize that the quoted segment below may very well come true if they did and that would be a very bad thing for the game. Prices for the higher end ships modules (referring to those player made items only) are already having a negative affect on many players in high sec and I fear that further increased prices will make it even worse.
Donnachadh wrote:Yes I know you don't give a damn about high sec and their problems and if that is your attitude then you need to seriously reconsidert. Daichi Yamato states that 80% of the game players live in high sec, from what little I have read on the subject I was thinking in the 70% to 75% range. However when you get into that range the actual percentage is not relevant as it is still high enough to cause major problems if there was a mass exodus of high sec players from the game. And that is precisely what I fear will happen if the last quoted segment comes true. In the corp that this character is CEO of we have lost more than a dozen players in the last year because of ISK income gap. Prices on the average for the player made higher end ships / modules are as the popular phrase goes "trending up" at the same time that CCP has the ability of these players to make ISK "trending downwards" and that is not a way to encourage players to stay around.
Eeeeerrrrr... Are you aware that isk value is driven down because of PLEXes going up, because of RM inflation? That's what is driving most of the ISK value down. Problem is, HighSec ISK generation has not grow for a long time (excepted for incursions, but lot of people are too afraid to invest themselves in that activity). Meanwhile, Null and Low keep getting buffed, because CCP want to get people out of HighSec. Well, guess what? That trend is going to continue, as long as HighSec population will be bigger than Null&Low.
Second problem? Most HighSec revenue are coming from loot, salvage and LPs. Because ISKs reward are utter crap, either bounties or mission rewards. Where is the money coming from? Nullsec bounties. So, what's going to happen? The more Null will be buffed, the poorer HighSec will be, because of the difference in currency generation. Because the quantity of currency you posses allow you to trade. Not the actual value of said currency.
What's going to kill HighSec is not the lack of market. Nor the prices. It's the imbalance between regions which will shake things. And that's fine, because that's the game following the mechanics introduced.
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1542
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Posted - 2015.08.14 14:24:07 -
[12] - Quote
Nyalnara wrote:...
What's going to kill HighSec is not the lack of market. Nor the prices. It's the imbalance between regions which will shake things. And that's fine, because that's the game following the mechanics introduced.
It's really not fine if 75% of players live in hisec and get pushed out by rising prices. They will not move to nullsec because they do not want to. If they did they would already be there. Kill hisec and you effectively kill the game because not many businesses will withstand losing 75%+ of their customers... |
Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
108
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Posted - 2015.08.14 14:35:06 -
[13] - Quote
The problem is that 15% (last 5-10% being LS and WH) of the population is generating 60-75% of the currency. And that, should they decide to, they could effectively cut themselves from the 75% right now, mine low-end ores, produce locally, and not suffer from doing so. But HS would take a really big blow, because except catalysts and mining barges, there would be way less possibility to sell stuff, because less currency, because less highSec-produced ships breaking and so on.
What's the only thing keeping Null from doing that? The fact that there is a really high demand for that undervalued currency, making importing from High still worth it, as long as JFs don't get nerfed.
EDIT: also, 75% of the population may be HighSec, but what's the proportion of Null-player alts in that? Do we have statistics on that?
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2080
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Posted - 2015.08.14 15:07:36 -
[14] - Quote
Jita became Jita not because of its location or its security status, but because it was the home to the Caldari Navy security agent that paid the largest rewards. If you want to establish a trade hub, provide a source of reliable PvE income and a market will establish itself there assuming there isn't already another one nearby.
Daichi Yamato wrote:If the vast majority of players lived in null sec, then market hubs would appear there.
But the fact is over 80% of the game's population lives in hi-sec. So all the trading happens there. Thera is a trade hub but its WH space. It's the fact that enough players can get there easily and frequently enough that makes it a hub.
Explain to me why a high sec islands in null sec regions would encourage trading or industry? Hisec islands by themselves wouldn't. Hisec islands with steady PvE income sources likely would. For this to work as the OP wanted, you'd need hisec and high-paying PvE content.
Of course, most hisec dwellers wouldn't cross nullsec to get there, but some would. Would it be enough? I have no idea.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1202
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Posted - 2015.08.14 16:33:32 -
[15] - Quote
so who in the region decides what the hub is? do i have to hold the entire region? if i lose one system does it lose being a hub?
EDIT:
also hasent CCP also mentiond deplyoables that will alter the sec status of a system?
i would find that to work better than this idea
ofc still not sure how i feel about altering sec statuses
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3723
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Posted - 2015.08.14 18:40:30 -
[16] - Quote
FYI, the 6th biggest trade hub in the game is in Deklein. As in, deep nullsec. (Source: http://eve-marketdata.com/station.php?step=Rank )
Why would we want to make it into highsec? What possible advantage is there for us?
Why would we want to allow hostiles to stage in our damn capital? |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
440
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Posted - 2015.08.15 03:28:41 -
[17] - Quote
Nyalnara wrote:The problem is that 15% (last 5-10% being LS and WH) of the population is generating 60-75% of the currency. And that, should they decide to, they could effectively cut themselves from the 75% right now, mine low-end ores, produce locally, and not suffer from doing so. But HS would take a really big blow, because except catalysts and mining barges, there would be way less possibility to sell stuff, because less currency, because less highSec-produced ships breaking and so on. You still are not getting the primary point here. How much game currency is generated and where is totally irrelevant, the only thing that matters is where does the real CASH money come from. In the absence of any real information from CCP all I can do is base this on what I see and hear about in game and elsewhere. Every person I know that is in low / nul plexes ALL of there accounts including the high sec alts. Every person I know that is primarily a high sec only player pays real cash money for their subscriptions and often funds those expensive ships by buying plex for cash and selling them to make ISK. Remove these CASH paying players through any means and the game suffers, remove enough of them and the CASH faucet ends and CCP closes it's doors and shuts down EvE is that what you want?
This whole attitude of screw the high sec players has always baffled me. For the most part they are a cash cow that helps CCP continue to develop this game, if it takes a 100% safe area to keep them then I say that is what we need. |
Specia1 K
State War Academy Caldari State
104
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Posted - 2015.08.15 04:06:03 -
[18] - Quote
Thera |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3728
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Posted - 2015.08.15 18:17:31 -
[19] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Nyalnara wrote:The problem is that 15% (last 5-10% being LS and WH) of the population is generating 60-75% of the currency. And that, should they decide to, they could effectively cut themselves from the 75% right now, mine low-end ores, produce locally, and not suffer from doing so. But HS would take a really big blow, because except catalysts and mining barges, there would be way less possibility to sell stuff, because less currency, because less highSec-produced ships breaking and so on. You still are not getting the primary point here. How much game currency is generated and where is totally irrelevant, the only thing that matters is where does the real CASH money come from. In the absence of any real information from CCP all I can do is base this on what I see and hear about in game and elsewhere. Every person I know that is in low / nul plexes ALL of there accounts including the high sec alts. Every person I know that is primarily a high sec only player pays real cash money for their subscriptions and often funds those expensive ships by buying plex for cash and selling them to make ISK. Remove these CASH paying players through any means and the game suffers, remove enough of them and the CASH faucet ends and CCP closes it's doors and shuts down EvE is that what you want? This whole attitude of screw the high sec players has always baffled me. For the most part they are a cash cow that helps CCP continue to develop this game, if it takes a 100% safe area to keep them then I say that is what we need.
Psst.
CCP gets more money for a plex than a 30 day sub. Much more if it's 12 plex over a year's sub. |
Lu Ziffer
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
70
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Posted - 2015.08.15 18:31:48 -
[20] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Nyalnara wrote:The problem is that 15% (last 5-10% being LS and WH) of the population is generating 60-75% of the currency. And that, should they decide to, they could effectively cut themselves from the 75% right now, mine low-end ores, produce locally, and not suffer from doing so. But HS would take a really big blow, because except catalysts and mining barges, there would be way less possibility to sell stuff, because less currency, because less highSec-produced ships breaking and so on. You still are not getting the primary point here. How much game currency is generated and where is totally irrelevant, the only thing that matters is where does the real CASH money come from. In the absence of any real information from CCP all I can do is base this on what I see and hear about in game and elsewhere. Every person I know that is in low / nul plexes ALL of there accounts including the high sec alts. Every person I know that is primarily a high sec only player pays real cash money for their subscriptions and often funds those expensive ships by buying plex for cash and selling them to make ISK. Remove these CASH paying players through any means and the game suffers, remove enough of them and the CASH faucet ends and CCP closes it's doors and shuts down EvE is that what you want? This whole attitude of screw the high sec players has always baffled me. For the most part they are a cash cow that helps CCP continue to develop this game, if it takes a 100% safe area to keep them then I say that is what we need. I have lived in 0.0 for the last 7 years and I never used plex and I know hundred people who do not.
Highsec got screwed? They killed gun mining and they killed the botfleets which were so "hard" on highsec players. Not a lot has changed in highsec, you can make infinte isk without any risk if you know how. So where did highsec got screwed?
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2256
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Posted - 2015.08.15 18:38:18 -
[21] - Quote
Nullsec dependent in Highsec just means new or newer player have a place in the New Eden Opera.
Why would you ever want to take that away?
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3728
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Posted - 2015.08.15 18:51:12 -
[22] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Nullsec dependent in Highsec just means new or newer player have a place in the New Eden Opera.
Why would you ever want to take that away?
Psst.
Nothing stopping a newbie from moving to nullsec. It's kind of our 'thing' to bring them out the second they're done with the tutorial. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2256
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Posted - 2015.08.15 18:56:39 -
[23] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Sentamon wrote:Nullsec dependent in Highsec just means new or newer player have a place in the New Eden Opera.
Why would you ever want to take that away?
Psst. Nothing stopping a newbie from moving to nullsec. It's kind of our 'thing' to bring them out the second they're done with the tutorial.
Shocking news, but not everyone wants their only choice to be joining up with the other martini link clickers so he can make a living from the game.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3728
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Posted - 2015.08.15 19:32:45 -
[24] - Quote
Which has nothing to do with the viability of a newbie moving to null? PH, brave and probably TEST all do the same thing. |
Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
1986
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Posted - 2015.08.19 07:58:39 -
[25] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:so who in the region decides what the hub is? do i have to hold the entire region? if i lose one system does it lose being a hub?
The purpose of the features and ideas section of the forums is to submit ideas, not to details all the possible rules regarding said idea.
That said, those are valid questions... Perhaps it would be better if sov/players didn't have a say where these were and instead, CCP simply added one hub per region.
My original thinking on the null sec hub idea was to create a "safer" place for industrialists to sell their products to anyone, not just alliance members" and a convenient place for everyone else to buy stuff. With the the upcoming citadels, these hubs (with npc stations) would allow people market their items without the fear of things being blown up or moved across to map.
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3733
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Posted - 2015.08.19 10:15:45 -
[26] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:
My original thinking on the null sec hub idea was to create a "safer" place for industrialists to sell their products to anyone, not just alliance members" and a convenient place for everyone else to buy stuff. With the the upcoming citadels, these hubs (with npc stations) would allow people market their items without the fear of things being blown up or moved across to map.
But why would we want to hand anyone who doesn't like us an invulnerable staging point in the middle of our sov, when we already control the sixth biggest trade hub in the game selling just to our people? |
Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
1986
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Posted - 2015.08.19 10:22:38 -
[27] - Quote
haha i hope CCP aren't designing the game with the thought "but what's in in for goonswarm?"... If anything they should be designing it to hurt big power blocks like you, which as you point out this feature would probably do. Thanks.
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3737
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Posted - 2015.08.19 22:04:20 -
[28] - Quote
So, what exactly is stopping these other groups from having thier own hubs? I mean, we're the 6th, provibloc have the 7th, and there are four other nullsec hubs in the top 20.
Considering the fact that you can already make nullsec trade hubs, why would anyone want to plop a highsec system right in the middle of their sov for any random hostile to come burning out of?
How does one blockade a highsec system effectivley?
How does one supply a trade hub without any kind of a freighter? (no cynos means no JFs, means no-one is going to stock it, means it's just handing bad guys a staging post.)
You haven't explained what the advantage is for anyone to actually do this. Why would they bother?
(Also, what do you mean by regional sov? Do you mean that if you lose one system in a region, your highsec base is gone? Or all of them? or what?) |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
739
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Posted - 2015.08.20 00:26:04 -
[29] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Which has nothing to do with the viability of a newbie moving to null? PH, brave and probably TEST all do the same thing.
that and its all SSDD really. YOu can be in the blob but not a slave to the blob. My secret to tolerable life out there was avoid all the CAOD crap really. got me fights, got me ratting time which was all I wanted from a home. The soap opera part...just skipped that whole part tbh.
Another secret is to roam well before ops you don't want to be on start. this was fun chats with leaders. You need to be back here for op form up....NOW! We'd really love to man...but kind of 40 jumps out, and we seemed to have pissed off some people who are looking to bottle us in. If you'd like to wait for us....maybe an hour, sound good?
Take away is you can do your own thing in the blob if you want.
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Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
1989
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Posted - 2015.08.20 07:07:43 -
[30] - Quote
Danika, try reading the original post. I said "high sec like" but with the ability to cyno freighters in.
... I have already addressed your questions if you read carefully and between the lines.
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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