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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16550
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Posted - 2015.08.24 12:35:08 -
[1081] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec, please listen to Mitten's recording and then think about what you just said. Then return and edit your post with your conclusion.
I was there and I'm looking forwards to once again forcing CCP to deal with a broken mechanic by using said mechanic to put another region to the torch.
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1814
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Posted - 2015.08.24 12:44:20 -
[1082] - Quote
And replace it with just another broken mechanic? What you are trying to do in Providence is only going to be the prime showcase of mechanics failing in face of numbers as any mechanic can be exploited exponentially by numbers.
Growing a backbone is not enough to attack your sov, neither with ceptors nor with BC or ships without prop mods. Disallowing ceptors or any tactics is making space like yours again unassailable, whereas now it is at least trollable and causing you headache.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16550
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Posted - 2015.08.24 12:51:42 -
[1083] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:And replace it with just another broken mechanic? What you are trying to do in Providence is only going to be the prime showcase of mechanics failing in face of numbers as any mechanic can be exploited exponentially by numbers.
Growing a backbone is not enough to attack your sov, neither with ceptors nor with BC or ships without prop mods. Disallowing ceptors or any tactics is making space like yours again unassailable, whereas now it is at least trollable and causing you headache.
One guy alone sure, a dozen, two dozen small gangs attacking at the same time is a lot more challenging.
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1814
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Posted - 2015.08.24 12:59:34 -
[1084] - Quote
Which you can easily counter with, what was the number in the recording again, 60 people, 80 people (and this was deployment numbers, not numbers available at home)? You have more than enough people to counter anything that even tries to cross the border and obliterate it. The rest, see my posts before. If people can't even cause you headache anymore in border areas, your space is unassailable, even more than it already is.
Elsewhere in the universe, people do not have the problems that you have. Elsewhere, people already have the conflicts that you need to search far away from home. Go figure. vOv
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6614
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Posted - 2015.08.24 13:14:10 -
[1085] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Which you can easily counter with, what was the number in the recording again, 60 people, 80 people (and this was deployment numbers, not numbers available at home)? You have more than enough people to counter anything that even tries to cross the border and obliterate it. The rest, see my posts before. If people can't even cause you headache anymore in border areas, your space is unassailable, even more than it already is. Our space isn't unassailable, just when there's an alliance consisting of 3 people they can't do much. You want them to be able to, and I get it, they want to attack the big bad, but they have to understand they need to bring something to the field to be a threat.
Rivr Luzade wrote:Elsewhere in the universe, people do not have the problems that you have. Elsewhere, people already have the conflicts that you need to search far away from home. Go figure. vOv Except of course that the majority of null sov players, big and small, have claimed that the new system is boring. The only people going "YAY" are people with no intention of holding sov. That's pretty telling in itself.
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SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
359
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Posted - 2015.08.24 13:43:43 -
[1086] - Quote
Gewns telling other people to grow backbones. Just sayin'.... |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
81
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Posted - 2015.08.24 13:45:35 -
[1087] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:The fact that if your indexes are high enough you can ignore another player for 45 minutes, then finally go respond to them, and then either kill them or chase them away, is still not good game play. Eve is supposed to be a fun and exciting game. CCP should be trying to find ways to make content denial the least viable strategy.
Fundamentally, at either extreme of the indexes, Aegis Sov still rewards conflict evasion tactics - and that is why it is not a good system. Lucas Kell wrote:That's not it being an advantage, that simply the reason that it's also boring for the attacker. The attacker still has the full choice of whether to do it and the defender is still forced to respond every time without fail. The point being that it's even more boring for the attacker. And it's entirely the attacker's prerogative to go the trollceptor route. To a certain extent it's like mining to make ISK. Not the most exciting, but if you keep doing it you've got nobody to blame but yourself.
On the other hand, what if the attacker brings an actual fleet to start the Entosis? I think the 60 minute timer is actually pretty reasonable if you find yourself needing to counter a 100 person attacking force. I don't think we're going to see these types of attacks become common until all of the low index space has been "trolled" away, but it's not like the option isn't there.
So while I'm generally not in favor of boring game mechanics, the boring parts of the sov system are either minimal, or outright optional. - Attacking trollceptors spend far more time bored than defenders. - Defenders have the option of multiboxing a defending ship to pre-empt the troll. - The lack of killmaill for a ship that runs away is a completely uncompelling argument. - Even if the troll is successful, an uncontested defence now only take 12 minutes. That's barely longer than defending against the troll, and gives you a few days troll immunity to boot. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2015.08.24 14:13:39 -
[1088] - Quote
Kystraz wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:tg;tr (too gewn to read) trollceptor is only a thing where you are completely unable to contest your own sov, in which case it's uncontested sov capture and working as intended. https://timerboard.net/ Nope, nothing there for Imperium space. So why are they overfilling my tear bucket here? Your guess?
Kystraz wrote:Quote:Goal #1: As much as possible, ensure that the process of fighting over a star system is enjoyable and fascinating for all the players involved Nope, solo interceptor v. solo griffin isn't enjoyable or fascinating for all players involved. It's probably a good thing that a trollceptor doesn't contest sov then. |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2015.08.24 14:35:55 -
[1089] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote: It's probably a good thing that a trollceptor doesn't contest sov then.
See my last post about trollceptors.
How long are alliances of real life players (who could be playing something fun) going to continue logging in to defend their space from nothing but interceptors? You've said in your posts if it's not worth holding the space then don't do it; what kind of sov system do we have where the best thing to do is not hold sov?
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2015.08.24 14:39:22 -
[1090] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Repeating this "fact" does not make it true. Calling it not true without arguments isn't going to make it less true either.
Mr Mieyli wrote:Goons managed to weaponise boredom under dominion sov what makes you think the new mechanics are any different? Check this thread. They are clueless about the tactics of actual sov contest. They aren't even thinking of what comes past reinforcement. They are ignoring even the latest node changes clearly underestimating how fast competent defender will wrap capture events up. They are clueless about tug of war tactics as well because it's just way over their heads at their current level. tg;tr gewns are clearly failing in new mechanics, weaponized boredom is the defender's weapon, and they don't even know that, trying to attack with it.
Mr Mieyli wrote:I fully believe they will stick to their plan of trolling sov with fight-evading ships for months until people are too bored to show up to defend. Is that really good gameplay? Unfortunately boredom is one of the best tactics in eve, people enjoy fights even if they lose some. Nobody enjoys blueballing tactics and that's why they work, the defenders morale will slowly be worn down until they can no longer field enough numbers. Any attrition will have to be dealt with using an actual force. Trollceptoring attrition is impossible. If they are going to stick to trollceptor, they will fail pathetically for the whole eve to laugh.
Mr Mieyli wrote:P.S. I'm not a goon So you are their pet? |
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Hendrink Collie
Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation.
68
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:02:01 -
[1091] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec, please listen to Mitten's recording and then think about what you just said. Then return and edit your post with your conclusion. I was there and I'm looking forwards to once again forcing CCP to deal with a broken mechanic by using said mechanic to put another region to the torch.
Meh, when you have a 40k coalition, it is not hard to make anything look broken. I'm just looking forward to more cry post six months from now about lack of content because of that one mega-coalition can't find any sustainable conflict drivers since the remnants of null sec are a bunch of small groups like CCP planned. Maybe at some point the Imperium will cease because the only targets will be themselves... or yeah, perhaps not. Will be fun to watch as the lack of content generation continues to take its toll. But hey, at least there is a week in Providence, amirite? |
bigbillthaboss3
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
92
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:15:20 -
[1092] - Quote
Hendrink Collie wrote:baltec1 wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec, please listen to Mitten's recording and then think about what you just said. Then return and edit your post with your conclusion. I was there and I'm looking forwards to once again forcing CCP to deal with a broken mechanic by using said mechanic to put another region to the torch. Meh, when you have a 40k coalition, it is not hard to make anything look broken. I'm just looking forward to more cry post six months from now about lack of content because of that one mega-coalition can't find any sustainable conflict drivers since the remnants of null sec are a bunch of small groups like CCP planned. Maybe at some point the Imperium will cease because the only targets will be themselves... or yeah, perhaps not. Will be fun to watch as the lack of content generation continues to take its toll. But hey, at least there is a week in Providence, amirite?
You do realize there are other coalitions besides us right? Here is a visual: http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/coalitionsov/Coalitioninfluence.png
The only reason Imperium looks so big on the map is because Branch & Deklein highlighted areas extend past the normal boundaries. |
Hendrink Collie
Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation.
68
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:43:45 -
[1093] - Quote
bigbillthaboss3 wrote:Hendrink Collie wrote:baltec1 wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec, please listen to Mitten's recording and then think about what you just said. Then return and edit your post with your conclusion. I was there and I'm looking forwards to once again forcing CCP to deal with a broken mechanic by using said mechanic to put another region to the torch. Meh, when you have a 40k coalition, it is not hard to make anything look broken. I'm just looking forward to more cry post six months from now about lack of content because of that one mega-coalition can't find any sustainable conflict drivers since the remnants of null sec are a bunch of small groups like CCP planned. Maybe at some point the Imperium will cease because the only targets will be themselves... or yeah, perhaps not. Will be fun to watch as the lack of content generation continues to take its toll. But hey, at least there is a week in Providence, amirite? You do realize there are other coalitions besides us right? Here is a visual: http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/coalitionsov/Coalitioninfluence.png The only reason Imperium looks so big on the map is because Branch & Deklein highlighted areas extend past the normal boundaries.
http://rischwa.net/coalitions/
Another resource for you, amigo. Shows known alliances within each "relevant" null sec coaltion currently in the game. I'd say it is a lot better than the 3 we had during the height of the cold war of 2014. I'd say that coalition map looks pretty good. I just hope for it to have even more colors at some point instead of it restructuring back to 3 or 4. Because those times sucked. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1815
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:52:13 -
[1094] - Quote
Of which all combined have just over 7k paper players more (counting out renters, and ESC is dead, and Provi will not leave Provi or participate in any deployment) and are scattered all over the universe doing what CCP's view for a healthy game looks like.
http://rischwa.net/coalitions/ You combine almost 2/5 of Null sec players under your banner. Whatever you understand under "grow a backbone", there is no backbone to grow under these conditions as most of the players seek safety and rather go to CFC than other alliances as other alliances cannot provide the desired safety and stability.
Removing ceptors from creating headache, to you and elsewhere, is not going to help.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6616
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:56:48 -
[1095] - Quote
There there.
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1815
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Posted - 2015.08.24 17:08:53 -
[1096] - Quote
I must be grateful time and again that you willfully jump to prove me right.
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bigbillthaboss3
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
92
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Posted - 2015.08.24 17:27:40 -
[1097] - Quote
Let me clarify: we have almost 2/5 of EVE's ratting alts. |
Vic Jefferson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
550
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Posted - 2015.08.24 18:10:35 -
[1098] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Elsewhere in the universe, people do not have the problems that you have. Elsewhere, people already have the conflicts that you need to search far away from home. Go figure. vOv
I find this statement and your general moral high ground to be more than a little hypocritical. It wasn't all that long ago that Ineluctable played the evil empire bit in the microcosm of Syndicate. You didn't seem to have any issues with being the biggest fish in that pond and throwing your weight around to the detriment of the ecosystem, but now that you are on the other side of the equation, suddenly you decry this behavior. This leads me to believe you are just angry and confused that one group is more successful than yours.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1815
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Posted - 2015.08.24 18:32:56 -
[1099] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Elsewhere in the universe, people do not have the problems that you have. Elsewhere, people already have the conflicts that you need to search far away from home. Go figure. vOv I find this statement and your general moral high ground to be more than a little hypocritical. It wasn't all that long ago that Ineluctable played the evil empire bit in the microcosm of Syndicate. You didn't seem to have any issues with being the biggest fish in that pond and throwing your weight around to the detriment of the ecosystem, but now that you are on the other side of the equation, suddenly you decry this behavior. This leads me to believe you are just angry and confused that one group is more successful than yours. Biggest fish in the pond? I was not aware that our 300 people were bigger than the then CFC's 400 men Black Omega Security department (Who, back then, alone could field more people than Noway and Usurper combined) combined with the then Psychotic Tendencies, Cynosural Field theory, Suddenly Spaceships (at some point), Nova Prime and your 200 people. Count in the then EVOKE an VEGA's from outer Syndi and IRED's and 404's hordes from central Syndi. It was basically NOWAY and Usurper against the rest of Syndicate. Our Noway fleets rarely exceeded 50 people and we were constantly up against odds, and people regularly resorted to call Psychotic or BOS for help, while we had little help in Low sec fights from Escalated Quickly. Even back then, you were bad at twisting numbers. Your skills there clearly have not improved
I am not quite following what I decry, but what we did back then was healthy medium scale warfare in a local area around our home. We held moons in a limited area, we staged in a limited area, we fought in a limited area and we did not quench or quell opposition, which, considering our numbers was not quite possible anyways. We surely kept some of it at bay on our side of Syndicate as much as we could, but at no point in time was Noway able to remove any entity from Syndicate.
Accusations of this nature from a then CFC pet and entity dealing with 50 tones of shady Roses (I still have that screenshot somewhere ) is more than tragic.
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Vic Jefferson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
550
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Posted - 2015.08.24 19:32:56 -
[1100] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote: your 200 people. Groon. 200 people? I don't even...
Yeah I get it. You tried to play the the big fish in a microcosm but every single little fish found your behaviour so obnoxious you were booted out; Syndicate residents are happy to trade welps of fleets but having a 5 guardian minimum to even undock didn't win you any friends. The only difference I'm really seeing here is that the Imperium has made itself all but immune to the consequences of bullying, whereas you were not equipped for the rest of the playground uniting.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1816
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Posted - 2015.08.24 19:53:18 -
[1101] - Quote
Clockwork Pinapples, not just Groon. You had around 400-500 people on paper back then, Noway was never well above 400. Or do you really want to compare active players? In this case, the statistics show the same pattern: We against the rest. I also do not see why people should welp a not properly set up fleet into a hard counter outside our station when they had at least one PSYCHO cyno with them and their caps on standby. There are welps when fight go wrong and then there are welps which only stupid FCs start for no reason because they want to undock and then complain about losses. I rather enjoyed being mostly in the first camp with Noway. So, could you please stop trying to use numbers to salvage whatever you have of your points? We were not booted out. We left on our own terms after Phoebe (for whatever reason, I still don't get why we went for Uemon and Etherium. I think finding fights was the goal, but finding fights in Sov Null except for Provi was back then and still is a contradiction in itself. vOv) and then basically folded as corps left for other alliances. If we had made us immune by collecting more blue friends, we would have just dried out that pond even further than what CFC and other entities there already had drained due to their presence, and would have had no activity at all. We maintained our opponents like a little zoo that sometimes went out of hand and created very nice fights. We never intended to create a comfort zone, we never tried to blue up Syndicate to be safe. This was never our plan and the then and now CFC is the best example why we did not do that. So, please stop trying to compare us to CFC. It is a disgusting insult.
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Kystraz
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2015.08.24 20:37:53 -
[1102] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Elsewhere in the universe, people do not have the problems that you have. Elsewhere, people already have the conflicts that you need to search far away from home. Go figure. vOv
Rivr Luzade wrote:I think finding fights was the goal, but finding fights in Sov Null except for Provi was back then and still is a contradiction in itself.
What. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1816
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Posted - 2015.08.24 20:56:22 -
[1103] - Quote
Kystraz wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Elsewhere in the universe, people do not have the problems that you have. Elsewhere, people already have the conflicts that you need to search far away from home. Go figure. vOv Rivr Luzade wrote:I think finding fights was the goal, but finding fights in Sov Null except for Provi was back then and still is a contradiction in itself. What. What do you mean? I am talking about conflicts, not fights in the first quote. Now we here in Catch have activity and some kind of conflict sparked by ELs. We have bigger battles here and there but most of the time the ratters in whatever area just dock up (naturally) and throw some ridiculous fleet at you that's suitable for invading a region, not for creating fights. Or places that Triumvirate talked about a couple of pages prior, they also have battles, but nothing for the size of Noway back then. The second quote also relates to back then. Not now. Back when Dominion was still in place. Noway wanted to find fights as an outsider, a third party thing in an area that didn't need third parties as small as we were back then. There was nothing to do or what was there was too big for us. Nowadays, most of Sov Null sec is still empty, you roam around empty systems and have very little to do.
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Terraj Oknatis
Capital Punishments
11
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Posted - 2015.08.24 20:59:13 -
[1104] - Quote
Here is an idea... Entosis link is now a cruiser + size module. |
Warmeister
Van Diemen's Demise Pandemic Legion
71
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Posted - 2015.08.24 23:54:03 -
[1105] - Quote
so looks like cfc have failed miserably at their goal of taking provi and not giving any fights
http://evf-eve.com/services/brcat/?s=3712&b=6650907&e=210&t=ApoJlmWcakacaIaaG&r=1
once again this proves that troll ceptors alone don't work. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2015.08.25 01:12:41 -
[1106] - Quote
Terraj Oknatis wrote:Here is an idea... Entosis link is now a cruiser + size module. It already is when you talk actual sov contest and not just grabbing uncontested sov against a bunch of holed up bears.
Well it's not like they haven't been warned that trollceptors are as good in sov contest as battle badgers against a HAC fleet. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3235
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Posted - 2015.08.25 03:37:47 -
[1107] - Quote
/thread
We have an off topic post about Groon/A Clockwork Pinapple. Another post about restricting what ships the entosis link can be on. A post stating the obvious.
Nothing new is being presented.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2015.08.25 04:36:42 -
[1108] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:/thread
We have an off topic post about Groon/A Clockwork Pinapple. Another post about restricting what ships the entosis link can be on. A post stating the obvious.
Nothing new is being presented. But there are still no big fights in fozziesov. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2298
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Posted - 2015.08.25 05:11:57 -
[1109] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:Gewns telling other people to grow backbones. Just sayin'....
Wise old Goon says ... "why have one backbone, when you can have 40,000"
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
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Kystraz
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2015.08.25 05:17:01 -
[1110] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:/thread
We have an off topic post about Groon/A Clockwork Pinapple. Another post about restricting what ships the entosis link can be on. A post stating the obvious.
Nothing new is being presented. But there are still no big fights in fozziesov.
That has nothing to do with solo interceptor v. solo griffin being not enjoyable and fascinating for all players involved. |
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