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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Borachon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
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Posted - 2015.08.22 15:41:26 -
[1] - Quote
Testing the speed limit on SiSi, it's interaction with webs is broken. In particular:
- I created a snaked, unlinked daredevil that goes 6.5km/s unheated, 10km/s heated, and fitted it with an entisos link.
- I set it to orbit a rapier fit with a T2 (60%) web at 20 km.
- Unwebbed, the daredevil goes 4km/s as it should
- Webbed and unheated the daredevil goes 2600 m/s (40% * 6.5km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
- Webbed and heated, the daredevil does 4000 m/s (40% * 10km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
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Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
52
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Posted - 2015.08.23 23:40:19 -
[2] - Quote
This is why they shouldn't bother with any speed limit shenanigans and just turn off any prop mods once the entosis is activated. I don't think any ship regardless of whatever implants and links they get are going to be going near 4km/s. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3370
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Posted - 2015.08.24 04:12:26 -
[3] - Quote
lets hope thats actually a bug and not one of those unfixable legacy code issues
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13114
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Posted - 2015.08.24 11:31:03 -
[4] - Quote
This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Masaaq
Soggy Biscuit.
23
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Posted - 2015.08.24 12:28:47 -
[5] - Quote
Bring a Lachesis next time. Problem solved. |
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
537
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Posted - 2015.08.24 13:39:46 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.
Sorry fozzie, but that only confirms that design is flawed.
Because it causes a module that would normally be effective against a ship becoming useless in this scenario. First of all this is issue not only when trying to catch ship entosising your structure but also when you try to catch the same ship on gate camp for exanple (if someone actually managed to point it)
Using webs you expect a ship to slow down.this is not chance based module. There are no modules or effect (wh put aside) in game that changes how webs work (reduce effectiveness). But niw sudenly you remove its usefulness against particular ships. This goes against the goal of not interfere with tactics used for structure controll. Now you have to skip webs and try ships with longer scrams to catch them limiting effectively to ceptors ships that can be used to capture trollceptors.
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Masaaq
Soggy Biscuit.
23
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Posted - 2015.08.24 14:59:46 -
[7] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers. Sorry fozzie, but that only confirms that design is flawed. Because it causes a module that would normally be effective against a ship becoming useless in this scenario. First of all this is issue not only when trying to catch ship entosising your structure but also when you try to catch the same ship on gate camp for exanple (if someone actually managed to point it) Using webs you expect a ship to slow down.this is not chance based module. There are no modules or effect (wh put aside) in game that changes how webs work (reduce effectiveness). But niw sudenly you remove its usefulness against particular ships. This goes against the goal of not interfere with tactics used for structure controll. Now you have to skip webs and try ships with longer scrams to catch them limiting effectively to ceptors ships that can be used to capture trollceptors.
Or you just bring a ship that moves at 4,001m/s with a scram and web. |
Borachon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
63
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:14:47 -
[8] - Quote
Masaaq wrote:Bring a Lachesis next time. Problem solved.
Using the same mechanics, you can also make a Phantasm setup that goes 4k when fitted with a T2 entosis link and still goes 4kms when hit by a scram and a T2 web. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2239
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:22:05 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers. If this is by design then it can be easily changed. Arbitrary hard caps that fall outside of regular speed mechanics seems like a contrived solution that will be abused by Trollceptor 2.0 instead of achieving your goal of requiring attackers to commit to an entosis attempt.
Seriously CCP, just up the fitting requirements so that only a battlecruiser or battleship can fit them easily. You'll do away with trolling entosis attempts and you'll revitalize battlecruiser and battleship fleets at the same time. It isn't rocket science.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
292
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:53:28 -
[10] - Quote
Borachon wrote:Testing the speed limit on SiSi, it's interaction with webs is broken. In particular:
- I created a snaked, unlinked daredevil that goes 6.5km/s unheated, 10km/s heated, and fitted it with an entisos link.
- I set it to orbit a rapier fit with a T2 (60%) web at 20 km.
- Unwebbed, the daredevil goes 4km/s as it should
- Webbed and unheated the daredevil goes 2600 m/s (40% * 6.5km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
- Webbed and heated, the daredevil does 4000 m/s (40% * 10km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
tl;dr: Under the current speed limit mechanics, you can create ships that go 4km/s when fit with an entosis link fit, and still goes 4km/s even after being hit with a 60% stasis web.
What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning? |
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Theophilas
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
35
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:54:03 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.
I just picture you sitting there behind your keyboard with that smug **** eating grin you always have on your fat little face whenever you **** up something, knowing you are dead ass wrong, but refusing to admit it... and my blood is boiling because I just KNOW this **** is getting pushed live anyways regardless of it being ****** up and there is nothing I can do to stop it at all and no amount of pointing it out is going to stop you...
Also, I don't know what is up with these BS fast release cycles, but this is getting ridiculous how FAST broken things are being put in place. Why even have a test server at this point?
Just put **** live on tranquility and who cares, since that is effectively what you are doing anyways. |
Nartel Vortok
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
70
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:55:07 -
[12] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Borachon wrote:Testing the speed limit on SiSi, it's interaction with webs is broken. In particular:
- I created a snaked, unlinked daredevil that goes 6.5km/s unheated, 10km/s heated, and fitted it with an entisos link.
- I set it to orbit a rapier fit with a T2 (60%) web at 20 km.
- Unwebbed, the daredevil goes 4km/s as it should
- Webbed and unheated the daredevil goes 2600 m/s (40% * 6.5km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
- Webbed and heated, the daredevil does 4000 m/s (40% * 10km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
tl;dr: Under the current speed limit mechanics, you can create ships that go 4km/s when fit with an entosis link fit, and still goes 4km/s even after being hit with a 60% stasis web. What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning?
The same thing because they are both -60% ? |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2240
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:55:55 -
[13] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning? The bigger question should be what happens to sov warfare when a faction-fited Rapier becomes a de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks?
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
174
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:59:36 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.
Seems fine to me. its not like the 7-8k/s+ ships were not dieing anyway. |
Talbrys Narentyr
Nex Exercitus Northern Coalition.
4
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:59:39 -
[15] - Quote
Nartel Vortok wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Borachon wrote:Testing the speed limit on SiSi, it's interaction with webs is broken. In particular:
- I created a snaked, unlinked daredevil that goes 6.5km/s unheated, 10km/s heated, and fitted it with an entisos link.
- I set it to orbit a rapier fit with a T2 (60%) web at 20 km.
- Unwebbed, the daredevil goes 4km/s as it should
- Webbed and unheated the daredevil goes 2600 m/s (40% * 6.5km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
- Webbed and heated, the daredevil does 4000 m/s (40% * 10km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
tl;dr: Under the current speed limit mechanics, you can create ships that go 4km/s when fit with an entosis link fit, and still goes 4km/s even after being hit with a 60% stasis web. What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning? The same thing because they are both -60% ?
Are you actually that ******** or just pretending?
You use both at the same time, bringing it down to 1600m/s heated, 1040m/s unheated. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
292
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:01:03 -
[16] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning? The bigger question should be what happens to sov warfare when a faction-fited Rapier becomes a de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks?
T2 is the same 60%, just less range
So, OK, lets assume T2
What happens when you fit 2 T2 like you should have from the beginning? |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
292
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:01:51 -
[17] - Quote
Nartel Vortok wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Borachon wrote:Testing the speed limit on SiSi, it's interaction with webs is broken. In particular:
- I created a snaked, unlinked daredevil that goes 6.5km/s unheated, 10km/s heated, and fitted it with an entisos link.
- I set it to orbit a rapier fit with a T2 (60%) web at 20 km.
- Unwebbed, the daredevil goes 4km/s as it should
- Webbed and unheated the daredevil goes 2600 m/s (40% * 6.5km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
- Webbed and heated, the daredevil does 4000 m/s (40% * 10km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
tl;dr: Under the current speed limit mechanics, you can create ships that go 4km/s when fit with an entosis link fit, and still goes 4km/s even after being hit with a 60% stasis web. What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning? The same thing because they are both -60% ?
Did you really just answer that with that statement.....
Please just uninstall the client now...... |
captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
283
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:03:30 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.
"feature" |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2242
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:04:41 -
[19] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning? The bigger question should be what happens to sov warfare when a faction-fited Rapier becomes a de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks? T2 is the same 60%, just less range So, OK, lets assume T2 What happens when you fit 2 T2 like you should have from the beginning? I was assuming that the range was actually beneficial given the mechanics involved and the Rapier's web range bonus, but my point is the same regardless. Let me broaden my question somewhat:
What happens to sov warfare when the ability to apply speed control to hostile fast-movers becomes the de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks?
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
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captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
283
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:05:44 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.
are you incapable of comprehending the problem that the speed limit was asked for as a solution
or do you just have an undying hard-on for frigates and T3 destroyers to be the only classes of ship worth flying in this game
these are serious questions |
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Porucznik Borewicz
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
42
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:06:42 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers. Works as intended. Move along. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
293
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:12:21 -
[22] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning? The bigger question should be what happens to sov warfare when a faction-fited Rapier becomes a de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks? T2 is the same 60%, just less range So, OK, lets assume T2 What happens when you fit 2 T2 like you should have from the beginning? I was assuming that the range was actually beneficial given the mechanics involved and the Rapier's web range bonus, but my point is the same regardless. Let me broaden my question somewhat: What happens to sov warfare when the ability to apply speed control to hostile fast-movers becomes the de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks?
Well, we pretty much have a web loki in every fleet, i know from experience, you guys have huggins
Where does it say, "I should be able to undock and blap whatever is entosising in 20 seconds and get back to krabbing"
I must have missed that part of sov is for bears 101 |
Masaaq
Soggy Biscuit.
23
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:12:41 -
[23] - Quote
Borachon wrote:Masaaq wrote:Bring a Lachesis next time. Problem solved. Using the same mechanics, you can also make a Phantasm setup that goes 4k when fitted with a T2 entosis link and still goes 4kms when hit by a scram and a T2 web.EDIT: An example of such a fit
Hyena says "Hi!" |
Borachon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
66
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:14:58 -
[24] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning? The bigger question should be what happens to sov warfare when a faction-fited Rapier becomes a de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks? T2 is the same 60%, just less range So, OK, lets assume T2 What happens when you fit 2 T2 like you should have from the beginning?
Multiple webs reduce the speed more, but stacking penalties also start to kick in and are less effective. For example, a 500mn vaga hit by two T2 webs can still go 3700m/s heated, and with three webs 2500m/s heated. A scram would obviously shut it down, however.
Let me be clear - I'm not arguing on either side of the Galatea speed limit as a sov fix here. I'm just asking about the whether this interaction is as designed or the result of, for example, having to use legacy systems to get it in place that could perhaps be fixed in the future.
Thanks for the clarification that this is the intended effect, Fozzie. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2242
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:17:06 -
[25] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Well, we pretty much have a web loki in every fleet, i know from experience, you guys have huggins
Where does it say, "I should be able to undock and blap whatever is entosising in 20 seconds and get back to krabbing"
I must have missed that part of sov is for bears 101 I'm asking from the standpoint of an outsider. I haven't lived in nullsec in years, I operate an independent Empire-space corp, and I can't even fly T2 Minmatar cruisers.
My point was that, from a gameplay standpoint, making entosis mechanics all about speed seems rather one-dimensional. I would imagine that requiring a more diverse offensive force would make for more entertaining battles.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
|
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
293
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:17:44 -
[26] - Quote
Borachon wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning? The bigger question should be what happens to sov warfare when a faction-fited Rapier becomes a de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks? T2 is the same 60%, just less range So, OK, lets assume T2 What happens when you fit 2 T2 like you should have from the beginning? Multiple webs reduce the speed more, but stacking penalties also start to kick in and are less effective. For example, a 500mn vaga hit by two T2 webs can still go 3700m/s heated, and with three webs 2500m/s heated. A scram would obviously shut it down, however. Let me be clear - I'm not arguing on either side of the Galatea speed limit as a sov fix here. I'm just asking about the whether this interaction is as designed or the result of, for example, having to use legacy systems to get it in place that could perhaps be fixed in the future. Thanks for the clarification that this is the intended effect, Fozzie.
I'm not arguing one way or the other either......
I merely pointed out, that if you fit a rapier with a single web to try and use that as a reference to slow down a ship, that is almost pointless
Every rapier, huginn and loki should have 2 fitted for sure |
Borachon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
66
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:30:50 -
[27] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:[ Every rapier, huginn and loki should have 2 fitted for sure
Mine certainly do. :)
The stacking penalty on the second web is modest enough that its not too severe, but is still non-trivial. In the original daredevil example, two webs make it go 2000 m/s, as opposed to the 1600m/s it would go if the second web wasn't stacking penalized or the 800m/s it would go if the two webs applied to the 4km/s speed limit, not the 10km/s top speed. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1561
|
Posted - 2015.08.24 17:13:46 -
[28] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers. "feature"
Cynosural field generators have a similar speed limit stat, only for those the limit prevents the module from being activated, rather than limiting the top speed of the ship just by being fitted.
Why does OP only have one web on his Rapier anyway? A second web would affect it, and if you're chasing after it with a non-Entosis interceptor or tackle frigate you should be able to catch up to it and shut off its MWD and not need the web in the first place.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Owner, The Golden Masque
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Borachon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
66
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Posted - 2015.08.24 21:03:43 -
[29] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote: Why does OP only have one web on his Rapier anyway? A second web would affect it, and if you're chasing after it with a non-Entosis interceptor or tackle frigate you should be able to catch up to it and shut off its MWD and not need the web in the first place.
OP had two webs on his rapier, but posted what he did because he his main goal was to test how a new game feature interacted with existing game features and report the results. Fozzie clarified that thiis is indeed what was intended. Fin.
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Kibitt Kallinikov
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
4
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Posted - 2015.08.24 21:15:20 -
[30] - Quote
It was my understanding that the entosis link continues its current cycle even if you burn out of its effective range, meaning you cannot warp away.
If you really don't like frigates with t1 entosis links being able to disengage, why not make a falloff range for entosis where your speed drops down to, say, 15% of its normal value? This way, you can still inch your way back to try and get your speed, but you aren't going to just fly off into the sunset. I don't think this would really implact t2 entosis links, and I'm sure there are unintended consequences of such a change, but it sounds like that is what most people are asking for. |
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