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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
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Posted - 2015.08.29 18:31:12 -
[1] - Quote
I was bored in EVE and decided to try factional warfare. I found a system I used to live in an tried there.
For a while it was going okay, a few fights here and there. Some people showed up and fought and whatnot.
After a while a few Russians showed up, some died and some killed me. Then they brought a curse and killed my daredevil before I even got to use it for what I fit. So I tried smalls only to avoid the curse, and they brought a dragoon, which was countered with another dragoon before they even encountered me with their own on d-scan, which was responded to with a "bb" and system leave.
Next day they bring even more numbers and I can't do a damn thing, and end up wasting all my isk and resources in the area. Then they capture the system over, and the system with the station in it I was basing out of, then whenever I enter those systems they pile in within 5 minutes.
I got into an atron and had a navy comet chase me. I logged off for an hour and they returned. I logged off, then on, then off, then waited a half a day and tried again but they still pile back INTO the system, and they chase me if I try flying further in, and so when I bring a t3 destroyer roam into system they aren't anywhere to be found. Not one of them.
An hour later I return thinking they left? Nope they are there waiting for me.
So finally broke I sell my LP to someone through vexor navies, and now I log on without doing anything before logging off. I figure fighting is just going to land me broke yet again so why bother? I have logged on through a few occasions now to receive a notice about a gatecamp in the exact system I was flying to before through militia chat.
So now I am sitting here not playing EVE and realizing you don't win the game by fighting. Not at all, fighting is just a waste of time and isk.
Instead I play Robocraft, which I have been doing great at. I know if I create a vehicle properly and experiment with maneuverability, minimizing what I can to the least I need and such I can wreck opponents who have access to the same things I do. Too bad EVE doesn't work the same way. It isn't the same game based on your skill at design and actual combat with what you have made. It's more a numbers game.
A game based around conflict that doesn't promote conflict. You need to put yourself in a situation that sets you in the firing line to fire upon other people, which wouldn't be an issue if you weren't required to have NPC farming alts and hauling alts. They break the game because the characters you fight don't have to do anything resource related to upkeep, you can't win the war of attrition without carebear alts of your own.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Bellatrix Invicta
New Order Logistics CODE.
387
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Posted - 2015.08.29 18:37:17 -
[2] - Quote
Don't play solo.
If you think you've won, think again.
The CODE always wins.
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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
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Posted - 2015.08.29 18:40:57 -
[3] - Quote
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:Don't play solo.
Even then they just log those alts off, and log on to their other alts and continue playing until they see you alone, then they just switch alts again.
I've seen another system in lowsec before factional warfare, it seemed whenever you entered systema bunch would all log on and blob you, but as soon as me and two other people (individual of themselfs) came along with intentions of revenge they all logged off. This was a different group in a different region.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3260
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Posted - 2015.08.29 18:42:15 -
[4] - Quote
You're in a 55 person corp. Where are your corpmates and why are they not helping you to fight against "a few russians"?
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3260
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Posted - 2015.08.29 18:42:25 -
[5] - Quote
hurf durf double post.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
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Posted - 2015.08.29 18:45:59 -
[6] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:You're in a 55 person corp. Where are your corpmates and why are they not helping you to fight against "a few russians"?
We usually just get 10 people on at prime time and they roam a bit through FW. Which is where I got that T3 roam that encountered nothing where I was having the conflict.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Kapitan Rozrabiaka
Gallente Clean-Up Services
0
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Posted - 2015.08.29 18:47:34 -
[7] - Quote
i agree with you.
there should be some dedicated server for people who want to role play just 1 character. |
Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 18:48:33 -
[8] - Quote
I like combat but I also like to build things, and contribute to peoples goals. For some reason I have trouble contributing to anything but more crap in my station hangar.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
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Posted - 2015.08.29 18:50:17 -
[9] - Quote
Kapitan Rozrabiaka wrote:i agree with you.
there should be some dedicated server for people who want to role play just 1 character.
I'm not into roleplaying. I'm also not into running and paying for 8 accounts, but I shouldn't expect EVE to change because I want it too. I'm just trying to find a place in it instead of quitting.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
7
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Posted - 2015.08.29 19:16:29 -
[10] - Quote
EVE is not a solo game.
EVE is not a epic hero take you by the hand game.
EVE has a specific set of aims in development, one of them being, "when you undock you do so agreeing that you are fair game to anyone and everyone who wants to have a piece of you".
No one said ganking, gangbanging, overnumbering, overpowering and such are discouraged, forbidden or even frown upon.
And if you get 8 accounts, I can bet the russians would get 20 each.
That is EVE.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
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Posted - 2015.08.29 19:22:03 -
[11] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote:
EVE is not a epic hero take you by the hand game.
Not a huge fan of that. I like multiplayer where you're capable of equal grounds.
Malt Zedong wrote: EVE has a specific set of aims in development, one of them being, "when you undock you do so agreeing that you are fair game to anyone and everyone who wants to have a piece of you".
No one said ganking, gangbanging, overnumbering, overpowering and such are discouraged, forbidden or even frown upon.
Carrying out tasks while in FW/wardec or dangerous space IS dangerous, just not to people with alts because they use the alts instead. It's essentially a meta way to "pay to win". Multiple characters all under the control of one person all at once. Why do you think you have to pay to train multiple characters on one account? But I can't expect this to change, so what can I do?
People use alts as a way of not playing EVE with the other people playing EVE. They aren't accepting the package given to them as it is. Can't travel things through certain systems? You could outsource, but that requires the social aspect of the game. So people pay money to do it themselves with multiple characters.
EVE makes more cash per person, but it's players aren't as social. CCP can't do anything about alt's and i'm not sure if less social or no alts are worse for the game.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Zozoll Neblyn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.08.29 19:32:05 -
[12] - Quote
Russian tactics are just annoying is all. Because they're too damn patient.
It's not game mechanics. It's playing style. Try to get a gang of American players to camp their alts all around the same stargate, and be ready at a moment's notice to log on together and gank some random stranger. It aint gonna happen.
The way they play is too much like doing real work. |
Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
7
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Posted - 2015.08.29 19:33:50 -
[13] - Quote
That is not russian style, that is everyone but British and Americans.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
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Posted - 2015.08.29 19:37:35 -
[14] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote:That is not russian style, that is everyone but British and Americans.
I feel like you are assuming something about me. I'm not going to confirm or deny it though.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12263
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Posted - 2015.08.29 19:48:01 -
[15] - Quote
The problem isn't what other people are doing. The problem isn't the game. The problem is you, you are not willing to do the things needed to win whereas others are. Rather than understand that it's you in the wrong and not people who are just using what the game officers, you complain about everything BUT you.
I've been playing for 8 years and have yet to experience the kind of fail you have, and it's the same way with a lot of people. Learn to look at yourself 1st, other people 2nd, and you won't be so unhappy.
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
987
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Posted - 2015.08.29 19:48:44 -
[16] - Quote
Welcome to the Solo PvP curse. You will run from more fights than you will engage, and at times you will wonder why you bother. And then along will come that day when your solo ship of choice solo kills a small fleet or a very large and valuable target and you'll wonder why you ever doubted.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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Whitehound
2877
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Posted - 2015.08.29 19:56:14 -
[17] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:... So now I am sitting here not playing EVE and realizing you don't win the game by fighting. ... This is your problem. One cannot win the game. It has no end, no final goal. It is about surviving, making friends setting yourself goals and achieving them.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1324
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Posted - 2015.08.29 20:01:20 -
[18] - Quote
Would suggest looking for another system to base out ...also 10 people is enough for a fun frig or dessie roam. Best to make friends with one of the larger lowsec groups.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
8
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Posted - 2015.08.29 20:02:03 -
[19] - Quote
All members of my corporation are my alts. All of them docked in a given place to get market orders in advantage.
Besides them, I have almost the same number of transport ship and freighter pilots to carry on the hauling.
And I do employ a large number of cruiser alts to carry on some killing.
For someone else, only their own vanity makes them diferentiate me alone using 30 pilots from 30 people with 1 pilot each.
You lost against, say, 10 pilots, it doesnt matter if it was 10 alts or 10 people, you would still lose the same way.
it is only your pride that puts difference on that.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 20:06:09 -
[20] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The problem isn't what other people are doing. The problem isn't the game. The problem is you, you are not willing to do the things needed to win whereas others are. Rather than understand that it's you in the wrong and not people who are just using what the game officers, you complain about everything BUT you.
I've been playing for 8 years and have yet to experience the kind of fail you have, and it's the same way with a lot of people. Learn to look at yourself 1st, other people 2nd, and you won't be so unhappy.
I can't figure it out myself, which is why I am here.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
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Posted - 2015.08.29 20:09:47 -
[21] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote:All members of my corporation are my alts. All of them docked in a given place to get market orders in advantage.
Besides them, I have almost the same number of transport ship and freighter pilots to carry on the hauling.
And I do employ a large number of cruiser alts to carry on some killing.
For someone else, only their own vanity makes them diferentiate me alone using 30 pilots from 30 people with 1 pilot each.
You lost against, say, 10 pilots, it doesnt matter if it was 10 alts or 10 people, you would still lose the same way.
For me this is where the problem stems, and from experience 20~30 isboxed thrashers is less effective than 20~30 players in thrashers, it's more the problem of them being only an omnipresent enemy and nothing else because there are alts doing it rather than many people.
I'm also figuring from this thread that joining an involved group would be a wise choice. I just need to be active enough to participate.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
8
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Posted - 2015.08.29 20:20:38 -
[22] - Quote
Multiboxing is one thing. Using a software for that is another.
Your argument of effectiveness imply that everytime someone multiboxes, they are relying on mirrored input over a network of identical and repeating actuators. That is far from the truth.
The most effective multiboxers dont use hardware, or software to relay inputs over a miriad of clients. Instead they do play all the online chars by hand using clever coordination. And that my friend, is better than any same number of different people trying to coordinate their actions.
As you may think, doing that is complex, requires focus and patience, so you dont do that all the time just for kicks. So the most of the times, you will see people just running around multiboxing identical fits in relayed input systems, like isboxer.
But either way, it is still for the other person, nothing but pride in the way of just facing the number of oponents as they are rather than going around trying to feel yourself avenged by the fact that it was a multiboxer, not a group of real people.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
472
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Posted - 2015.08.29 20:27:27 -
[23] - Quote
ISboxing/multiplexing inputs was banned. So, if they are using multiple accounts, it would have to be done manually, which is not as effective.
Regardless of that, I can solve this in about 5-10s of thought. Move.
If you are unable to counter their gangs effectively, and don't have the man power, leave to a different system. My homes always change. Sometimes, if their composition is too good, it can't be solo'd. That is something you will have to accept. Most of the time i know what I can and cannot fight (unless trap). Or i set my fits up so i can escape from blobs. Solo is just that, fighting outnumbered, you have to learn to separate or bait to operate effectively.
I had 3-4 stations with stuff in them when amarr steamrolled minmatar FW space. I was pushed to the entry system of minny space, and was basically staging out of rens for a week or so, since we had no systems. I'm not crying because a larger force pushed me out, its part of the game. You need to adapt your composition/skills, or you need to consider moving.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
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Posted - 2015.08.29 20:47:24 -
[24] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:ISboxing/multiplexing inputs was banned. So, if they are using multiple accounts, it would have to be done manually, which is not as effective.
Regardless of that, I can solve this in about 5-10s of thought. Move.
If you are unable to counter their gangs effectively, and don't have the man power, leave to a different system. My homes always change. Sometimes, if their composition is too good, it can't be solo'd. That is something you will have to accept. Most of the time i know what I can and cannot fight (unless trap). Or i set my fits up so i can escape from blobs. Solo is just that, fighting outnumbered, you have to learn to separate or bait to operate effectively.
I had 3-4 stations with stuff in them when amarr steamrolled minmatar FW space. I was pushed to the entry system of minny space, and was basically staging out of rens for a week or so, since we had no systems. I'm not crying because a larger force pushed me out, its part of the game. You need to adapt your composition/skills, or you need to consider moving.
I will take this as the awnser. I'll probably have to move.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32251
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Posted - 2015.08.29 20:53:15 -
[25] - Quote
Going out by yourself isn't necessarily bad. If you want full control over what you do in space rather than being tied to a gang, go out as several characters.
Blah blah not efficient to control several characters without software. Just build a gang that has some reaction time buffers built in like range, and don't try to make anything kitey.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
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Posted - 2015.08.29 20:58:06 -
[26] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote: The most effective multiboxers dont use hardware, or software to relay inputs over a miriad of clients. Instead they do play all the online chars by hand using clever coordination. And that my friend, is better than any same number of different people trying to coordinate their actions.
But either way, it is still for the other person, nothing but pride in the way of just facing the number of oponents as they are rather than going around trying to feel yourself avenged by the fact that it was a multiboxer, not a group of real people.
One co-ordinated person on 2 accounts could do better than 2 coordinated people depending on the people so that argument holds nothing. You also limit the situations you can put yourself in greatly without losing so don't assume things. You can't dogfight many accounts all at the same efficiency of many people, and the more accounts you are running, the worse off you are in the situation.
Give me a situation with some proof that I can't poke holes in with a butter knife.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
8
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Posted - 2015.08.29 21:19:15 -
[27] - Quote
You are using straw man argument there.
You are saying what you think a person does as the only thing anyone can do.
To coordinate a fleet, you need all people to follow the leader, to obey the leader, and not to think they can do anything better than the leader. In a fleet, the more pilots you have, the bigger the chance of someone not understanding or not obeying the plan. The more chance you have that the timing will be wrong, the more chance you have that some factor between people go wrong.
From all that possibilities, a true multiboxer only risks to have timing wrong or wrong acts by accident, which are the exact same multiplied by the number of people.
There is nothing preventing a sole person or a group of people to perform the same objective, they are only not advised to do the thing the same way.
You have the same idea of multiboxing as most people. You get your own experience and extrapolate, assuming that is what a multiboxer does.
I am a humble multiboxer, my setup is comprised of 2 machines and 4 screens, 2 keyboards and 2 mices. They are gaming ones so both mices have 16 buttons and both keyboards have 12 programmable keys. Markee Dragon shows in his videos a 6 screen setup, and I think it was 3 machines. I have a friend with one LED TV and 2 screens, running 4 machines. But whatever, the point is: Multiboxing is not an fixed thing, it is a form of play that has many flavours.
When I get to combat, which is not often, I attack in waves, I have a uber tank which barely move, bearing functional drones. That cripples the targets and holds the attack. Then a pour in funciotnal cruisers to cripple their attack and stale their defense. Pour in functional snipers, assigning drones to a frigate that will instalock big ships and get the drones dishing out. And finally, I warp some snipers to go sweeping the table. Behind them command ships giving bonuses. Each pilot instead of having the multiple skills, have their own role skill, because they are never solo, so they dont need to train more than their role to perform. Very fast I can have snipers, drone operators for function and hit, and tanks that make a Amarr BS pratically indestructible by any small ship horde.
I lose, of course. I win fleets bigger than my alt fleet, yes. I think it is fair ? no. I bother it is not ? no.
But you cant tell me that EVERY fleet of same number of people as my alts have an inherent advantage, because they dont.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer
383
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Posted - 2015.08.29 22:02:42 -
[28] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote:You are using straw man argument there.
You are saying what you think a person does as the only thing anyone can do.
To coordinate a fleet, you need all people to follow the leader, to obey the leader, and not to think they can do anything better than the leader. In a fleet, the more pilots you have, the bigger the chance of someone not understanding or not obeying the plan. The more chance you have that the timing will be wrong, the more chance you have that some factor between people go wrong.
From all that possibilities, a true multiboxer only risks to have timing wrong or wrong acts by accident, which are the exact same multiplied by the number of people.
There is nothing preventing a sole person or a group of people to perform the same objective, they are only not advised to do the thing the same way.
You have the same idea of multiboxing as most people. You get your own experience and extrapolate, assuming that is what a multiboxer does.
I am a humble multiboxer, my setup is comprised of 2 machines and 4 screens, 2 keyboards and 2 mices. They are gaming ones so both mices have 16 buttons and both keyboards have 12 programmable keys. Markee Dragon shows in his videos a 6 screen setup, and I think it was 3 machines. I have a friend with one LED TV and 2 screens, running 4 machines. But whatever, the point is: Multiboxing is not an fixed thing, it is a form of play that has many flavours.
When I get to combat, which is not often, I attack in waves, I have a uber tank which barely move, bearing functional drones. That cripples the targets and holds the attack. Then a pour in funciotnal cruisers to cripple their attack and stale their defense. Pour in functional snipers, assigning drones to a frigate that will instalock big ships and get the drones dishing out. And finally, I warp some snipers to go sweeping the table. Behind them command ships giving bonuses. Each pilot instead of having the multiple skills, have their own role skill, because they are never solo, so they dont need to train more than their role to perform. Very fast I can have snipers, drone operators for function and hit, and tanks that make a Amarr BS pratically indestructible by any small ship horde.
I lose, of course. I win fleets bigger than my alt fleet, yes. I think it is fair ? no. I bother it is not ? no.
But you cant tell me that EVERY fleet of same number of people as my alts have an inherent advantage, because they dont.
There ya go. Great example and now I believe you are quite capable of multi-boxing a competent combat fleet. We don't really need to figure out if 5 people or 5 alts is more capable because it's perspective, and you have mentioned you can make mistakes.
The only real limit is how many you can commit before it becomes too much to handle.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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HeXxploiT
Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn
185
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Posted - 2015.08.29 22:49:36 -
[29] - Quote
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:Don't play solo.
It's not solo if you're going up against another player.
Op there is definitely a lot of truth in your argument. Thankfully CCP have been working to allow for gameplay styles that include pilots that are daring enough to play multiplayer vs a solo pilot or a small group. The game has been improving in this respect and as fozziesov and module tiericide come to fruition I believe it will continue to expand and support more playstyles.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
127
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 23:51:32 -
[30] - Quote
Kapitan Rozrabiaka wrote:i agree with you.
there should be some dedicated server for people who want to role play just 1 character.
Why would they want to give me my own server? It would probably be too quiet, at least until others start putting alts onto the server. |
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