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Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
587
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Posted - 2015.08.31 00:22:14 -
[61] - Quote
Average forced for all PvP game: LFG, LFG, LFG! EVE forced for all PvP game: API verified LFG, API verified LFG, API verified LFG!!
R.I.P. Vile Rat
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6825
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Posted - 2015.08.31 01:47:27 -
[62] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote:That was insensitive. Carebears are a important part of New Eden. Without them, who the "Elite PvPers" who only shoot ships that cant shot back would shoot ? Probably npc structures
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall.
We just need more coalitions to exist to destroy them, more legions to be paid off, more lasersov, more something!!
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Davis TetrisKing
The Vendunari End of Life
114
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Posted - 2015.08.31 02:34:32 -
[63] - Quote
OP, you're right that the game doesn't directly 'promote' conflict since you lose more for a loss than you get for a win. Personally I think it's one of the things that makes Eve stand out. When people shoot each other there is a net loss, not a net gain.
As for advice on what to do to actually play the game, can I suggest a few different things?
For an immediate way to keep playing try roaming. Go out and find a fight that you are willing to take (either solo or with a few corpies). Sometimes this takes a lot of time, many jumps and even then it can end badly, but you don't have to stay in the same system if you're being camped by overwhelming numbers.
Try contacting other people/corps in the militia. They may not come to your aid, but you might be able to go and join one of their fleets somewhere else in the warzone and still get to play. Not only that but you might make some contacts that you can call on in the future.
Remember that the game doesn't give you the right to have others play fair . Nothing in the mechanics restrict anyone else to honor 1v1s. But it does give you the tools to adapt what you fly, pick your fights, make friends and generally play to your strengths. Gatecamps can be avoided. But remember that if other people don't have to fight fair, neither do you. Do what you can to fight with the advantage. |
Harrison Tato
Immortalis Fratres Vacui Legio immortales CXCI
482
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Posted - 2015.08.31 06:59:46 -
[64] - Quote
Delightful Delicacy wrote:Val'Dore wrote:Welcome to the Solo PvP curse. You will run from more fights than you will engage, and at times you will wonder why you bother. And then along will come that day when your solo ship of choice solo kills a small fleet or a very large and valuable target and you'll wonder why you ever doubted. Solo pvp curse solod by smaller ship: https://zkillboard.com/kill/48566173/
I thought that was going to be something impressive like a Comet or a Slicer |
Harrison Tato
Immortalis Fratres Vacui Legio immortales CXCI
482
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Posted - 2015.08.31 07:06:17 -
[65] - Quote
Gosh, this is some serious stuff. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon That Escalated Quickly.
1624
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Posted - 2015.08.31 07:21:00 -
[66] - Quote
You are patheitc.
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
17
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Posted - 2015.08.31 09:22:24 -
[67] - Quote
There is a curse called PR. No one wants to upset customers, so they are oriented by professionals on what to say to envelop a message without getting too strong on "we do this to promote that, period" or "we dont care that this happen when we do that", but CCP is remarkably good at doint preciselly that.
CCP says that you need to have the sense that you may lose what you have. You will be forced to part ways from your property eventually. What you do when that moment comes is what matters. Cry is an option, you are free to do it.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Whitehound
2882
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Posted - 2015.08.31 09:35:46 -
[68] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:You are patheitc. So is your spelling!
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
494
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Posted - 2015.08.31 11:11:00 -
[69] - Quote
Well... If you are playing other stuff, you could always be a bit of a smartass. Fly a cloaky.
When they pile in, fly off to a spot, cloak up and type into local "AFK for a bit". Toggle and do something else for a while and keep checking back. EVE isn't a major drain while playing so it can just sit there.
You can find all sorts of interesting comments showing up in local doing this occasionally and they eventually get tired of it. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6825
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Posted - 2015.08.31 11:55:00 -
[70] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Fly a cloaky.
When they pile in, fly off to a spot, cloak up and type into local "AFK for a bit". Aww yeah, the best risk-reward profile.
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall.
We just need more coalitions to exist to destroy them, more legions to be paid off, more lasersov, more something!!
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
485
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Posted - 2015.08.31 13:12:59 -
[71] - Quote
Kapitan Rozrabiaka wrote:i agree with you.
there should be some dedicated server for people who want to role play just 1 character.
I have solo charactered since I started. Never an alt. I play accordingly. Jump clones specialized ships, instawarps and allies. Planning amd foresight. FW is more than five people. Why not work with or call out to rest of militia. JC to someplace secure? |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1335
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Posted - 2015.08.31 14:18:01 -
[72] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Kapitan Rozrabiaka wrote:i agree with you.
there should be some dedicated server for people who want to role play just 1 character. I have solo charactered since I started. Never an alt. I play accordingly. Jump clones specialized ships, instawarps and allies. Planning amd foresight. FW is more than five people. Why not work with or call out to rest of militia. JC to someplace secure? Solo charactered since you started? Never an alt? Last PvP interaction is more than one year ago and your are not in FW militia?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
485
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Posted - 2015.08.31 15:32:12 -
[73] - Quote
Tipa Riot Solo charactered since you started? Never an alt? Last PvP interaction is more than one year ago and your are not in FW militia? [;) wrote:
Did faction warfare a little. It never interested me much as I was a support player. The core concepts of the pvp with when I was in large alliance warfare was the same. Focus and foresight. Toss in planning and all is secure. I would have my carrier loaded with ships when we would have to move around. I relied on trusted corpmates for the cyno side. Lots of isk invested in CTA ships and all that jazz. Yeah, killboard isn't packed, but when doing full logistics stuff, not getting on killmails.... I have nothing to hide, nor do I have any shame. I quite like eve pvp. I just dislike the peeps usually and find other stuff as fun for my limited play time.
Solo character, well that I guess is a mis-term. I have never solo pvped, and I like large fleet stuff. Solo charactered was just meaning Markus is the char I got and the only one I have ever used... outside of other made characters on this account which are unused. One being my first character I made, the other is a clear forum troll.
The concepts still stand. I could be cyno trapped by the person lighting it. I could lose every ship I had in station and it would not affect me. Reason? I always have an out. The resource invested in a task is not all of my resource. If I was FW solo pvper, I would play the same. My main focus and play would be the solo op pvp, but I would have other systems staged that I could jump clone to or I would have ships and instawarp in my staging system making it impossible to trap me. It is an MMO, sometimes need to contact allies as well.
There is no reason any person should ever be so destitute they are at a point of no return. Even rookies mine for half an hour, buy some cheap turrets for their rookie ship and back to the races. Just gotta plan and play smart. |
Velarra
436
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:27:50 -
[74] - Quote
Space ship combat in eve is about engaging in murder, the generation of fear and overwhelming the opposition. It's not sport, or competitive conflict*. It's harshness and consequences. If you ever find yourself in a fair fight it's a total accident and result of someone(s) making a terrible mistake.
*AT, NEO, & SiSi funtimez aside. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2467
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:46:26 -
[75] - Quote
Ships and losses are the very fuel for content, and as such I assert ships should be as easily replaced as ammo.
Yet, in EvE we prioritize inflicting loss on others through ship losses, as more important than getting content (or fights).
We would rather have no fights for hours (or days), and then inflict a painful ship-loss on someone else, than getting constant fights and constant content with bigger and nice ships, and the owner getting a near-free replacement of said loss.
i.e. EvE players don't care about content quantity, they care about 'quality'?
All while starving for both, all the time, constantly scratching like chickens in the dirt for hours each time we log in. Nuts.
I would instead refocus 'loss' and inflicting pain on others in EvE around structures (and ships dropped from them), but have ships lost during combat 95% insurance covered, for free. A replacement (including mods) ship would waiting for the pilot the moment they dock in their home station and click 'Yes' to 'Rebuild last lost ship for [5% of total cost]?' prompt. This is what Elite:Dangerous does, and it works. No rampant risk aversion like in EvE. (Sure it is content-dry, but thats not because of risk-aversion, but because of raw population...)
Now I fully understand the impact to market, industry and EvE traditions with big ship losses as 'pain' drivers being removed, but again, you can't decry risk aversion on the one hand, or 'having' to always fly T1 crap or frigates/dessy's, and not confront this paradox we have in EvE of ship losses driving risk aversion.
CCP showed some balls with null sov changes. If they showed the same in getting an Elite:Dangerous styled 95% replacement insurance scheme working, they would really be onto something.
The time of logging in and not getting content after hours of scratching and sniffing is very year-2000 gaming. In the year 2015 if a paying subscriber who pvp's isn't getting a 'gudfight' in under an hour, there is something fundamentally wrong with mechanics. Not a silly frigate on frigate slap-fight, but real content, real ships.
The question is, are EVE players ready to do something about it, including the compromises that come with it.
F
Would you like to know more?
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
25
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:49:46 -
[76] - Quote
There is a server for people who like to roll solo pvp.
They get served all the time.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Velarra
436
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:57:24 -
[77] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Ships and losses are the very fuel for content, and as such I assert ships should be as easily replaced as ammo.
This would kill eve and be bad. If you crave meaningless losses and 'fun' non-stop fighting SiSi has 6C waiting and ready to serve the desire for this.
Eve isn't a "sport". It's premeditated, patient conflict. |
Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
26
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:05:24 -
[78] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Ships and losses are the very fuel for content, and as such I assert ships should be as easily replaced as ammo. This would kill eve and be bad. If you crave meaningless losses and 'fun' non-stop fighting SiSi has 6C waiting and ready to serve the desire for this. Eve isn't a "sport". It's premeditated, patient conflict.
Sadly my dear, that is what CCP says indeed. Ships must be as expandable as ammo.
I dont agree and that is why I dont "shake spears".
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
177
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:14:28 -
[79] - Quote
Eve is absolutely a competition for me. Been doing solo pvp for a couple of years now.
I choose to play eve like call of duty. I spawn in, look for a kill, and respawn when I die. I repeatedly do this until I'm satisfied in any given gamming session.
I choose to look at the game as a game. I'm here to have fun. Fun for me is blowing people up.
Also don't worry about isk. A rifter is less than 300k. Mods can be salvaged from wrecks or rats.
I'm not that broke yet after years. Something always happens eventually to keep my wallet in the green. |
Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
138
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:48:27 -
[80] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:I would instead refocus 'loss' and inflicting pain on others in EvE around structures (and ships dropped from them), but have ships lost during combat 95% insurance covered, for free. A replacement (including mods) ship would waiting for the pilot the moment they dock in their home station and click 'Yes' to 'Rebuild last lost ship for [5% of total cost]?' prompt. This is what Elite:Dangerous does, and it works. No rampant risk aversion like in EvE. (Sure it is content-dry, but thats not because of risk-aversion, but because of raw population...)
I get the idea, but my immediate thought was that all this would change is letting gankers fly more and more expensive ships...
A gank fit tornado is now only a 5 mil loss instead of 100? O_o
Maybe only get the 95% if the other dude shoots back at you? |
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
30
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Posted - 2015.08.31 18:01:41 -
[81] - Quote
Darth Terona wrote:Eve is absolutely a competition for me. Been doing solo pvp for a couple of years now.
I choose to play eve like call of duty. I spawn in, look for a kill, and respawn when I die. I repeatedly do this until I'm satisfied in any given gamming session.
I choose to look at the game as a game. I'm here to have fun. Fun for me is blowing people up.
Also don't worry about isk. A rifter is less than 300k. Mods can be salvaged from wrecks or rats.
I'm not that broke yet after years. Something always happens eventually to keep my wallet in the green.
I am happy that a lot of people like this provide me with the means to stuff my account with up to 10bil ISK in one day of trading.
That is the kind of atitude that puts fear in to middle class people heart. The idea that passing by a given system or gate will get them blown up. Among you guys that like blow up people in inexpensive ships and the people who fears to lose their ships, the margin trade booms, and I just collect.
EVE is real Gäó
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
485
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 18:05:28 -
[82] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Ships and losses are the very fuel for content, and as such I assert ships should be as easily replaced as ammo. This would kill eve and be bad. If you crave meaningless losses and 'fun' non-stop fighting SiSi has 6C waiting and ready to serve the desire for this. Eve isn't a "sport". It's premeditated, patient conflict.
See, this is the funny bit about eve. Ships actually are easily replaceable and insurance on T1 does dramatically reduce the cost. A complex sov operation with industry and such means ships and equipment can be much easier to come by. Industrials get their stuff and pve while pvpers get pvp...
What is causing the bluefest for cost used to be the high expense meta for ships. That is now changed. People are now able to compete for sov and freeporting stations, so that is awesome. Means that smaller strategic forces can guerrilla tactics vs a large and disorganized entry. So why don' the good fights happen?
Killboards
So ships can be replaced, there are reasons and accessibility to fights. Why don't people put up a good fight? Cause one ship loss on the killboards is horrible! Our efficiency has dropped and people will question the virility of our e-peen!
If it wasn't for those stupid killboards, people would only be concerned about winning. I mean if that was the case, people would fight to the last ship or damned close. You lose 75% of your ships to take out their fleet? Sounds like a win. There are other ways to bring tactics into it as well? Killboards just give a very quantifiable value to win and loss. Has no value in gameplay. The only concept of win or loss in a fight should be the result of the win or loss. Killboards are fun, and nice to be able to share the results of an awesome battle, but they just prevent more than are shared. |
Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
30
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Posted - 2015.08.31 18:15:06 -
[83] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Velarra wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Ships and losses are the very fuel for content, and as such I assert ships should be as easily replaced as ammo. This would kill eve and be bad. If you crave meaningless losses and 'fun' non-stop fighting SiSi has 6C waiting and ready to serve the desire for this. Eve isn't a "sport". It's premeditated, patient conflict. See, this is the funny bit about eve. Ships actually are easily replaceable and insurance on T1 does dramatically reduce the cost. A complex sov operation with industry and such means ships and equipment can be much easier to come by. Industrials get their stuff and pve while pvpers get pvp... What is causing the bluefest for cost used to be the high expense meta for ships. That is now changed. People are now able to compete for sov and freeporting stations, so that is awesome. Means that smaller strategic forces can guerrilla tactics vs a large and disorganized entry. So why don' the good fights happen? Killboards So ships can be replaced, there are reasons and accessibility to fights. Why don't people put up a good fight? Cause one ship loss on the killboards is horrible! Our efficiency has dropped and people will question the virility of our e-peen! If it wasn't for those stupid killboards, people would only be concerned about winning. I mean if that was the case, people would fight to the last ship or damned close. You lose 75% of your ships to take out their fleet? Sounds like a win. There are other ways to bring tactics into it as well? Killboards just give a very quantifiable value to win and loss. Has no value in gameplay. The only concept of win or loss in a fight should be the result of the win or loss. Killboards are fun, and nice to be able to share the results of an awesome battle, but they just prevent more than are shared.
See, that is the funny thing about EVE. There are people who think like you all, and the game still the same.
The only thing is that one of those playstyles require that the other comply with their wishes, the other doesnt.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
485
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Posted - 2015.08.31 18:22:18 -
[84] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote: See, that is the funny thing about EVE. There are people who think like you all, and the game still the same.
The only thing is that one of those playstyles require that the other comply with their wishes, the other doesnt.
Not sure what you mean there (legitimately). Is that how some people think the game should only be played one way or do you mean that some of us believe eve is projection of force while others think it should be more casual RvB style play?
Main thing is I am just curious how it relates to my post is all. I personally do not find invalidity of the killboards value. If you are the top dog in pvp, then now you have proof. the awesome side of it. I just unfortunately see it as being the endgame instead of something in the game itself. In my time in game and since the resource rebalance, what in eve is worth fighting over? What has value more than some ranking that will have an alliance willfully taking losses to acheive their objective instead of turtling until it is numbers to force a station game?
I am thinking that is sort of the big side of the discussion on pvp currently happening here. There is no incentive to risk losing ships and combat is able to have far to much meta resulting in fights that are reliant on a few main commanders instead of having the fight results relying more on the fleet's total composition in terms of player skills. |
Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
30
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Posted - 2015.08.31 18:59:36 -
[85] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Malt Zedong wrote: See, that is the funny thing about EVE. There are people who think like you all, and the game still the same.
The only thing is that one of those playstyles require that the other comply with their wishes, the other doesnt.
Not sure what you mean there (legitimately). Is that how some people think the game should only be played one way or do you mean that some of us believe eve is projection of force while others think it should be more casual RvB style play? Main thing is I am just curious how it relates to my post is all. I personally do not find invalidity of the killboards value. If you are the top dog in pvp, then now you have proof. the awesome side of it. I just unfortunately see it as being the endgame instead of something in the game itself. In my time in game and since the resource rebalance, what in eve is worth fighting over? What has value more than some ranking that will have an alliance willfully taking losses to acheive their objective instead of turtling until it is numbers to force a station game? I am thinking that is sort of the big side of the discussion on pvp currently happening here. There is no incentive to risk losing ships and combat is able to have far to much meta resulting in fights that are reliant on a few main commanders instead of having the fight results relying more on the fleet's total composition in terms of player skills.
There is actually no technical definition for PvP or PvE, those are comercial terms. The line is blurred by what people consider a versus, but for my interpretation, I follow what EVE manual says. It calls everything pvp, everything is pvp, plain simple.
What I meant is that this is a persistent sandbox universe. It is more or less expected that some people feel strongly about losing pixel property, and feel attached to that. Real life is the same. Some people consider things are things, if it burns or it is stolen, it is just things. Others almost suicide when losing a smartphone valued 100 bucks. Still, each head one idea.
What bothers the balance is that the people who thinks of eve like a second life and prize it like such dont bother about people who doesnt until those people make a point of tryin to make them start acting otherwise.
And people who treat eve as just a game and go around blowing things up most of the times make a point of seeking the people who value their eve things to make them stop being like that. For no ingame reason, just to **** those people off.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Iblis Shaytan
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1
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Posted - 2015.08.31 19:01:38 -
[86] - Quote
Dale Liathain wrote:This is a silly thread.
OP goes to low to find fights.
OP finds fights.
OP complains about finding too many fights.
Just jump a few stargates, dude. Problem solved,
LOL! I was thinking that, too. |
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
485
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 19:16:49 -
[87] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote: There is actually no technical definition for PvP or PvE, those are comercial terms. The line is blurred by what people consider a versus, but for my interpretation, I follow what EVE manual says. It calls everything pvp, everything is pvp, plain simple.
What I meant is that this is a persistent sandbox universe. It is more or less expected that some people feel strongly about losing pixel property, and feel attached to that. Real life is the same. Some people consider things are things, if it burns or it is stolen, it is just things. Others almost suicide when losing a smartphone valued 100 bucks. Still, each head one idea.
What bothers the balance is that the people who thinks of eve like a second life and prize it like such dont bother about people who doesnt until those people make a point of tryin to make them start acting otherwise.
And people who treat eve as just a game and go around blowing things up most of the times make a point of seeking the people who value their eve things to make them stop being like that. For no ingame reason, just to **** those people off.
Ahh, I got ya now! I understand completely how some people take gaming seriously. I am a HIGHLY competitive person. Hence I play eve usually against the grain just to reduce that part. I dislike loss for no gain. Hence why I rarely pvp. I can never see the gain that offsets the loss.
That is like killboards. I like winning in games and having that high score. But eve isn't arena/encounter based. As such, that concern about score I find detracts. People are not willing to risk their ships else it affects the score. Unfortunately that is to the detriment of gameplay. Today I have been analogy for League of legends. People rage about their Elo score there. But, that at least encourages people to play.
The more you fight and the better you are, the better your ranking. Eve is counter to that. So ideal score means you want to avoid the tough fights. Imagine if everybody in LoL only accepted matches if it was against somebody who was like rank 10-20 ranks below em?
Pure pvp games, people get cocky and go after those more powerful than them because the gain offsets if they lose. What gain is there in eve to go after somebody bigger? KB still has that "leet" battle selecting force much higher in rankings.
The part about "just to **** people off" I actually do not mind in eve so much. In years past, I would train industry corps valid counters and concepts to negate that. They found they liked the game more. Non pvp people countering (so minimal losses) some highsec war dec? That was a huge win for them. It just was not able to be logged in some killboard. Existed as world of mouth only.
Myself, I have same. I love exploration in eve. I focus on nullsec sov space. I get trolled for hiding etc when they are trying to scan me out. After a while I give em a little clue....
"For past hour, you guys have been chasing me and keeping me hidden and saying you are better. However I have (20 for example) people who are not doing anything because they are chasing me."
So I took out 20 people essentially. Can argue how you like but my one ship kept 20 others from doing stuff. Huge win on my part and in my books.
My younger bro is a quite serious gamer. I respect it. It is challenge, requires brain power and interaction. I am into motorcycles. I do not hold one as a more valued hobby than others. It depends on approach. Another topic for another day. |
Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
30
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Posted - 2015.08.31 19:44:29 -
[88] - Quote
And that is the thing. In EVE there is no win, there is only surviving.
You care about doing X, I care about doing Y and your X does not impress me, someone cares about Z, and both X and Y dont impress them.
That is life.
What is really funny is that some people like W, and go on and on about how W is good and how people should like W and forget about X, Y and Z. That is all good until you realize W is not part of EVE actually.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7107
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 19:54:14 -
[89] - Quote
As long as we're in this mindset, why even bother to get up to go take a dump any more? Why not just pinch a loaf in bed and kick them out from between the sheets?
Just saying.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
487
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 20:54:24 -
[90] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:As long as we're in this mindset, why even bother to get up to go take a dump any more? Why not just pinch a loaf in bed and kick them out from between the sheets?
Just saying.
If some people were given the chance, they probably would. Just take a crap anywhere if there was no direct consequences. All fun and dandy til you gotta sleep and diaper rash on your face might suck a little.
You made your bed now sleep in it? Sheet smears.... but if ya step in it cause you didn't think about what happens when you kick it out, you are the one stuck with it. Just don't go blaming it on somebody else cause there are not bedpans placed around to catch your nutty logs for ya. |
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