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Zozoll Neblyn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.08.30 02:55:48 -
[1] - Quote
I've trying to use a Bhaalgorn to run L4 missions with pretty poor results. Is it just plain not the right ship for that? With a Nightmare I can clear them out really fast from a distance and then close in and loot.
With a Bhaalgorn I guess I could fit long range lasers also, but then the ship's main benefits get lost because I won't be near enough to web or drain anyone.
What do you use a Bhaalgorn for? PVP? |
Romvex
Just The Tip... Short Bus Syndicate
528
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Posted - 2015.08.30 03:25:22 -
[2] - Quote
The Bhaalgorn is usually used with no turrets because of how powerful its neuts are, unless you are in a small gang where dps is needed. It receives no bonuses that would make it even slightly viable for PVE since it has pitiful damage and no bonuses to tank. And no, the nos role bonus does not work on rats since they technically have no cap. Basically it is strictly a PVP ewar battleship and you should stick with the nightmare. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
146
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Posted - 2015.08.30 04:34:24 -
[3] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote:What do you use a Bhaalgorn for? PVP?
A Bhaalgorn's primary use is sucking capacitor out of capital and supercapital ships.
In PvE, Bhaalgorns are sometimes fielded by Incursion fleets, usually for their Webs more than their Neuts. As for mission running, they are just flat out not designed for that task.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Zozoll Neblyn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.08.30 04:50:41 -
[4] - Quote
I didn't realize rats had no cap. I was wondering why I couldn't get the frigates to stop webbing me even with all three caps focused one frigate.
Do I also not get the boost to my own cap from draining them?
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
98
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Posted - 2015.08.30 04:51:01 -
[5] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote: I've trying to use a Bhaalgorn to run L4 missions with pretty poor results. Is it just plain not the right ship for that? With a Nightmare I can clear them out really fast from a distance and then close in and loot.
With a Bhaalgorn I guess I could fit long range lasers also, but then the ship's main benefits get lost because I won't be near enough to web or drain anyone.
What do you use a Bhaalgorn for? PVP?
Not for PVE that's for sure, use a NM.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1517
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Posted - 2015.08.30 05:19:31 -
[6] - Quote
bhaalgorn is an even more pure pvp ship than the barghest.
as far as NPCs and cap goes there are tons of misconceptions, and outright lies.
what I know is that NPCs operate independent of their cap. What this means is Npcs will continue to shoot/rep/ewar if you neut/nos them.
what I'm not quite sure about: how much cap NPCs actually have. I know I've used nos on npcs and received cap in the past. but I have no idea how much cap they have, or how draining them works out. As far as I'm concerned they don't have enough that using a nos makes sense in pve. use the highslots for something else.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Amanda Chan
Just The Tip... Short Bus Syndicate
47
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Posted - 2015.08.30 18:17:40 -
[7] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote: I've trying to use a Bhaalgorn to run L4 missions with pretty poor results. Is it just plain not the right ship for that? With a Nightmare I can clear them out really fast from a distance and then close in and loot.
With a Bhaalgorn I guess I could fit long range lasers also, but then the ship's main benefits get lost because I won't be near enough to web or drain anyone.
What do you use a Bhaalgorn for? PVP?
The nightmare has 10 effective turrets to the bhaalgorn's 8. The nightmare also has a tracking Bonus which while vested by a web does not have to wait precious seconds to slow the target down.
It's ok but other ships are just better at missoning.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11515
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Posted - 2015.08.30 20:54:01 -
[8] - Quote
The Daemon ship is a pretty Damn scary thing to see fielded in PvP, hilariously inept PvE boat though.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
445
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Posted - 2015.08.30 21:39:39 -
[9] - Quote
I was flying bhaal in missions for a while. I was using a standard active rep tank with nanopumps rigs. Dual web to catch smaller targets while drones chew them. And the only thing caused me to use it for missions is because i do love the Dark Blood faction a lot. Same thing about Ashimmu, one of my fav ship. Simply love it. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1360
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Posted - 2015.08.30 22:07:59 -
[10] - Quote
You can use it in PvE, it just won't perform as well as other ships since it's bonuses are not really optimised for that. |
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nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
166
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Posted - 2015.08.31 03:11:21 -
[11] - Quote
Romvex wrote:And no, the nos role bonus does not work on rats since they technically have no cap. Basically it is strictly a PVP ewar battleship and you should stick with the nightmare.
NOS bonus does work on rats, and yes npcs DO have cap, they don't use it for any ewar, armor or shield reps.
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php there's a list of p much any npc ship in game and it's attributes |
Allaera
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
36
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Posted - 2015.08.31 05:07:19 -
[12] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote: And the only thing caused me to use it for missions is because i do love the Dark Blood faction a lot. Same thing about Ashimmu, one of my fav ship. Simply love it.
Same here (on both counts) and with the availability of skins we can now run a Blood Raiders Paladin
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Zozoll Neblyn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.09.01 01:28:52 -
[13] - Quote
I think I can't resist the challenge now that I've heard all of this.
The strategy I want to try now is to use sentries. Deploy the sentries, and then orbit them at just about the limit of my webs, and when the small ships come close to me or them (either one) I figure they'll either be far enough from me so I can track them, or they'll be far enough from my sentries so they can track them.
But I think I need to get my sentries skill up a bit. Can't use T2 sentries yet. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1551
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Posted - 2015.09.01 02:14:01 -
[14] - Quote
no challenge, just inefficient.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
103
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Posted - 2015.09.01 08:53:01 -
[15] - Quote
For the lulz and giggles some EFT warrior'ing using (mostly) DB when possible for rolling in style:
1x Dark Blood Large Armour Repair 2x Dark Blood Energized Adaptive Nano Membran 4x Dark Blood HS
1x 500MN MWDII 2x Dark Blood Stasis Webifier 2x Tracking Comp II
4x Mega Pulse Laser II 3x Dark Blood Heavy Nosferatu
Rigs 1x Large Aux Nano Pump II 2x Large Aux Nano Pump I
or
1x Large Energy Burst Aerator
2xGecko
905 dps @ 57km+20 with scorch (948 with LEBAII) and drones, 659/702 pure guns
tanks 251/370 omni.
no implants
Not so bad as it might have seemed.
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Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
7
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Posted - 2015.09.01 16:14:50 -
[16] - Quote
not for lulz, i fly bhaalgorn (tachyon) for L4 for caldari navy. its just equal to navy armageddon without need to learn amarr BS to IV-V. also you have 3 free high slots, so you can fit salvager/tractor beam/drone link. middle drones (infiltrator/valkyrie) works best than heavy/sentri. 600 dps is ok for L4, but some ships do it faster |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1557
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Posted - 2015.09.01 19:16:55 -
[17] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:Not so bad as it might have seemed. not so bad, but still not as good as other options. I'd much rather have the damage and tracking bonuses of the nightmare, or the range and damage bonuses of the paladin. Or just a mach, because never not mach in missions.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Zozoll Neblyn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2015.09.02 02:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Besides the Nightmare still has two free high slots. So you're only gaining one free high slot.
Bhaalgorn is such a stylish ship! And too expensive to PVP with at this stage in my career. I am liable to lose it, without gtting enough kills to feel good about it. For PVP I'm still at the "better bring a cheap ship" stage. |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
448
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Posted - 2015.09.02 03:46:59 -
[19] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote: Besides the Nightmare still has two free high slots. So you're only gaining one free high slot.
Bhaalgorn is such a stylish ship! And too expensive to PVP with at this stage in my career. I am liable to lose it, without gtting enough kills to feel good about it. For PVP I'm still at the "better bring a cheap ship" stage.
Ashimmu my friend. One of the best support ship for small scale gang. |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
103
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Posted - 2015.09.02 06:11:36 -
[20] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Elsa Hayes wrote:Not so bad as it might have seemed. not so bad, but still not as good as other options. I'd much rather have the damage and tracking bonuses of the nightmare, or the range and damage bonuses of the paladin. Or just a mach, because never not mach in missions.
As far as tracking is concerned use your dual webs, 28km range. People made it look like the Bhaal could do jack in pve, "hilariously inept pve boat" someone said, which is absolutely not the case. Yes some ships do it better but then again some ships do it still worse, a lot worse, that was the entire point. |
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
586
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Posted - 2015.09.04 01:13:10 -
[21] - Quote
Yep, wouldn't be the "best", if that's a word I can use safely, but it can run missions quite fine. You may have to invest more into it's fit than other alternatives and it still will not outperform any of the leading mission boats, but it's doable. The NOS buff is nice should you find cap an issue for what ever fit you decide to run and the web range buff is awesome for megapulses and helping drones out in close. One other thing to remember is that something like a Bhaalgorn, while not made for missions, doesn't scream, "This is a mission boat with some faction/DS goodies aboard," like other ships do. Just don't expect it to blow through missions like that very job is it's calling. It's like lasers on Angel rats -- not top of the line, but it's doable.
And, BR ships are looking anyways...
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1578
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Posted - 2015.09.04 01:51:26 -
[22] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:As far as tracking is concerned use your dual webs, 28km range. People made it look like the Bhaal could do jack in pve, "hilariously inept pve boat" someone said, which is absolutely not the case. Yes some ships do it better but then again some ships do it still worse, a lot worse, that was the entire point. The reason why the OP had very poor results was probably due to him not fitting the ship right.
Are there better options out there? Certainly! Is the Bhaal the worst pve ship as some people made it sound? Certainly not. the tracking bonus is more of a perk, I'm far more interested in the damage bonus. and meh web bonus, even with the 99% 15km domination web I hardly used it on the paladin. was kinda funny 1 shotting frigs in orbit. but imo targets shouldn't make it that close in the first place.
Of course it isn't the worst pve ship, its probably better than a scorpion, but that isn't saying a lot. inept is probably the right word for it. hilariously might be taking it too far, but hey it's the forums, hyperbole is allowed.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Mikkir
Freelance Mining Company
11
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Posted - 2015.09.05 00:33:58 -
[23] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Elsa Hayes wrote:Not so bad as it might have seemed. not so bad, but still not as good as other options. I'd much rather have the damage and tracking bonuses of the nightmare, or the range and damage bonuses of the paladin. Or just a mach, because never not mach in missions. As far as tracking is concerned use your dual webs, 28km range. People made it look like the Bhaal could do jack in pve, "hilariously inept pve boat" someone said, which is absolutely not the case. Yes some ships do it better but then again some ships do it still worse, a lot worse, that was the entire point. The reason why the OP had very poor results was probably due to him not fitting the ship right. Are there better options out there? Certainly! Is the Bhaal the worst pve ship as some people made it sound? Certainly not.
As a group amarr ships are pretty terrible at running mission, and the bhaalgorn is only average among them.
I also think it's the worst pirate battleship for running missions by a fair margin, and each faction has a tech 1 battleship that will perform better in level 4's than the bhaalgorn.
People should fly what they like and the bhaalgorn does have an appeal to it, but using it as a PvE mission ship is working harder to get less. |
Ahed Sten
81
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Posted - 2015.09.25 01:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mikkir wrote:Elsa Hayes wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Elsa Hayes wrote:Not so bad as it might have seemed. not so bad, but still not as good as other options. I'd much rather have the damage and tracking bonuses of the nightmare, or the range and damage bonuses of the paladin. Or just a mach, because never not mach in missions. As far as tracking is concerned use your dual webs, 28km range. People made it look like the Bhaal could do jack in pve, "hilariously inept pve boat" someone said, which is absolutely not the case. Yes some ships do it better but then again some ships do it still worse, a lot worse, that was the entire point. The reason why the OP had very poor results was probably due to him not fitting the ship right. Are there better options out there? Certainly! Is the Bhaal the worst pve ship as some people made it sound? Certainly not. As a group amarr ships are pretty terrible at running mission, and the bhaalgorn is only average among them.
While I would never suggest using a Bhaal for running missions; Apoc, Napoc, Armageddon, Paladin. There's nothing "terrible" about Amarr mission boats whatsoever.
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2015.09.29 02:12:17 -
[25] - Quote
If you have people coming into your mission site and messing with you, the Bhaalgorn stops being silly and inefficient.
A signature :o
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Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
11
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Posted - 2015.09.29 16:41:45 -
[26] - Quote
Mikkir wrote:
As a group amarr ships are pretty terrible at running mission, and the bhaalgorn is only average among them.
Please, can you right what terrible in amarr ship in PVE as a group? Except cap stability, which is a dumb idea for amarr |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12136
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Posted - 2015.09.29 16:53:18 -
[27] - Quote
Mikkir wrote: As a group amarr ships are pretty terrible at running mission, and the bhaalgorn is only average among them.
Yeah you're going to have to explain yourself on this one.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Mikkir
Freelance Mining Company
15
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Posted - 2015.09.29 23:41:30 -
[28] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mikkir wrote: As a group amarr ships are pretty terrible at running mission, and the bhaalgorn is only average among them.
Yeah you're going to have to explain yourself on this one.
That's fair.
Amarr ships have good paper DPS, but it gets a reality check if they're not facing EM weak enemies. The nightmare and the paladin can power through this with raw DPS (probably the navy geddon as well), but I find the other ships just were less impressive.
Amarr ships are very cap unstable. You don't have to have stability to run missions, especially if you're damage skills are capped, but I find pilots first stepping up to the battleship level struggle if they're flying amarr. Dovetailing into the skills consideration is that mega pulse isn't great until you have the option for scorch.
As far as the bhaalgorn itself, it has generous fitting room but the bonuses don't lend themselves well to missions. Just about every other option either out ranges it (which I consider a damage bonus for lasers), or it simply does more raw DPS.
If you have a compelling argument about why you think amarr boats are great in mission pve I'd be glad to hear it, I have an open mind and may well give it a try. |
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
532
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Posted - 2015.09.29 23:50:52 -
[29] - Quote
Apoc/Napoc one of the most popular mission runners of all times. Harbi one of my fav. still. Little guy Punisher being loved by masses. Bhaal in missions it's more enthusiastic approach, but if you have an opportunity, why not? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12139
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Posted - 2015.09.30 00:12:53 -
[30] - Quote
Mikkir wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mikkir wrote: As a group amarr ships are pretty terrible at running mission, and the bhaalgorn is only average among them.
Yeah you're going to have to explain yourself on this one. That's fair. Amarr ships have good paper DPS, but it gets a reality check if they're not facing EM weak enemies. The nightmare and the paladin can power through this with raw DPS (probably the navy geddon as well), but I find the other ships just were less impressive. Amarr ships are very cap unstable. You don't have to have stability to run missions, especially if you're damage skills are capped, but I find pilots first stepping up to the battleship level struggle if they're flying amarr. Dovetailing into the skills consideration is that mega pulse isn't great until you have the option for scorch. As far as the bhaalgorn itself, it has generous fitting room but the bonuses don't lend themselves well to missions. Just about every other option either out ranges it (which I consider a damage bonus for lasers), or it simply does more raw DPS. If you have a compelling argument about why you think amarr boats are great in mission pve I'd be glad to hear it, I have an open mind and may well give it a try. yeah thats an issue with having crap skill though and not realy that much to do with any of the hulls, they project soooooooo damn well that the resist issues are only a problem if you haven't trained your core skills. you need good core skills for the amarr boats in general but once you have them they are fantastic mid range (in most senses)
btw i agree with you ,eeeew pve baglhorn (<----thats what its called after acouple o beers) But the rest of the amarr line are sound, and yes even when shooting offf the resist hole, obviously there are better options at that point but they work fairly well once you have the tank and cap to stay on grid
Better the Devil you know.
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