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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Estray Lassils
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
14
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Posted - 2016.11.18 17:02:08 -
[721] - Quote
IChooseYou wrote:So where is this mysterious intel that I am missing to justify your betrayal towards me? Also, you said you refunded me. Does this include the cost of my fortizars that you are now killing? I haven't seen any deposits from you whatsoever - but maybe it is just me and I missed it.
Zion is a friend, but is not me. As you can see by looking through his post history, he was re-sold two weeks ago. I am a character trader so if you want to sell your pilot hit me up with your eveboard.
Jane Galt, is that you?
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kypp durron
Ex Presidents. Complaints Department
6
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Posted - 2016.11.18 17:54:23 -
[722] - Quote
Boo00 lo0lz
Natural CloneKiller's response by mail: "Sorry. This is a bit ****** and not how we normally operate."
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6715274#post6715274 |
kypp durron
Ex Presidents. Complaints Department
6
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 17:59:29 -
[723] - Quote
Rosal Milag wrote:Your group needs to issue a public statement with full disclosure of what happened. Names and specific details are not necessary but right now the general feeling is that your word is not worth the ink used for the contract. Your company accepted a defense contract then immediately broke it. Any future client is going to want to know why. Otherwise, they will wonder if they are next.
but but but its not how they roll lo0lz..
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Djayzere
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2016.11.18 18:34:31 -
[724] - Quote
kypp durron wrote:Rosal Milag wrote:Your group needs to issue a public statement with full disclosure of what happened. Names and specific details are not necessary but right now the general feeling is that your word is not worth the ink used for the contract. Your company accepted a defense contract then immediately broke it. Any future client is going to want to know why. Otherwise, they will wonder if they are next. but but but its not how they roll lo0lz..
Do you suffer from an illness or just pass out on your keyboard when writing? Remind me of a kid playing cod naming himself xxQuicksc03zzzzxx |
Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
258
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Posted - 2016.11.18 18:54:10 -
[725] - Quote
kypp durron wrote:Rosal Milag wrote:Your group needs to issue a public statement with full disclosure of what happened. Names and specific details are not necessary but right now the general feeling is that your word is not worth the ink used for the contract. Your company accepted a defense contract then immediately broke it. Any future client is going to want to know why. Otherwise, they will wonder if they are next. but but but its not how they roll lo0lz..
Wow the nub himself comes to the forum after weeks of VMG killing P45. Is this Kypp or his wife as she normally speaks for you :)
Stay small Kyppy. |
Sol epoch
HELVEGEN Jetpack Viking
373
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 19:16:24 -
[726] - Quote
Estray Lassils wrote:IChooseYou wrote:So where is this mysterious intel that I am missing to justify your betrayal towards me? Also, you said you refunded me. Does this include the cost of my fortizars that you are now killing? I haven't seen any deposits from you whatsoever - but maybe it is just me and I missed it.
Zion is a friend, but is not me. As you can see by looking through his post history, he was re-sold two weeks ago. I am a character trader so if you want to sell your pilot hit me up with your eveboard. Jane Galt, is that you?
By his postings it does seem like him!
I was actually thinking exactly what you posted.
I will add that in all my dealings with VMG they have honoured every detail that was ever agreed between us.
The alt posters and the op need to read up on the detail of what the word mercenary means and the historical detail of what they can and will do if offered more lucrative terms, As such VMG are sticking to the true term of a mercenary by the word of it's meaning and good for them. |
jack1974
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
148
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 22:06:23 -
[727] - Quote
Sol epoch wrote: The alt posters and the op need to read up on the detail of what the word mercenary means and the historical detail of what they can and will do if offered more lucrative terms, As such VMG are sticking to the true term of a mercenary by the word of it's meaning and good for them.
I know you don't get out much but some of the people who commented are not alts and have been mercenaries since Eve began. Before you try to lecture people you should also understand the people you are discrediting receive contracts totaling more in one week than your alliance and VMG spend in a month on wars.
I/We fully understand why this is being swept under the rug because it is the worst thing a mercenary can do; go back on their word. Not only do actions like this look bad on VMG, and those who defend them, this also makes mercenaries in Eve as a whole look bad.
With all of this said we are after all humans and are prone to make mistakes.... |
Sol epoch
HELVEGEN Jetpack Viking
373
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Posted - 2016.11.18 22:34:33 -
[728] - Quote
jack1974 wrote:Sol epoch wrote: The alt posters and the op need to read up on the detail of what the word mercenary means and the historical detail of what they can and will do if offered more lucrative terms, As such VMG are sticking to the true term of a mercenary by the word of it's meaning and good for them.
I know you don't get out much but some of the people who commented are not alts and have been mercenaries since Eve began. Before you try to lecture people you should also understand the people you are discrediting receive contracts totaling more in one week than your alliance and VMG spend in a month on wars. I/We fully understand why this is being swept under the rug because it is the worst thing a mercenary can do; go back on their word. Not only do actions like this look bad on VMG, and those who defend them, this also makes mercenaries in Eve as a whole look bad. With all of this said we are after all humans and are prone to make mistakes....
Then as Human beings and prone to mistakes should this not be taken as such and be forgotten as a lesson learnt? for all mercenairies.
Pro Tip: Please do not assume about me as you would be totally wrong. |
Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
258
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 23:00:02 -
[729] - Quote
Sol epoch wrote:Estray Lassils wrote:IChooseYou wrote:So where is this mysterious intel that I am missing to justify your betrayal towards me? Also, you said you refunded me. Does this include the cost of my fortizars that you are now killing? I haven't seen any deposits from you whatsoever - but maybe it is just me and I missed it.
Zion is a friend, but is not me. As you can see by looking through his post history, he was re-sold two weeks ago. I am a character trader so if you want to sell your pilot hit me up with your eveboard. Jane Galt, is that you? By his postings it does seem like him! I was actually thinking exactly what you posted. I will add that in all my dealings with VMG they have honoured every detail that was ever agreed between us. The alt posters and the op need to read up on the detail of what the word mercenary means and the historical detail of what they can and will do if offered more lucrative terms, As such VMG are sticking to the true term of a mercenary by the word of it's meaning and good for them.
Your Spidey sensors tingling. ... tell you what is funny...How normally if such information is false the individual accused would be fighting to clear their name. I think this is the 3rd time in this forum where such 'intel' has been suggested. I'm surprised the accused in not trying to clear their name.
PS. Just checked on P45 and kypp durron and he is all snug and warm docked up in Balle. |
Estray Lassils
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
15
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Posted - 2016.11.18 23:00:11 -
[730] - Quote
Sol epoch wrote:Estray Lassils wrote:IChooseYou wrote:So where is this mysterious intel that I am missing to justify your betrayal towards me? Also, you said you refunded me. Does this include the cost of my fortizars that you are now killing? I haven't seen any deposits from you whatsoever - but maybe it is just me and I missed it.
Zion is a friend, but is not me. As you can see by looking through his post history, he was re-sold two weeks ago. I am a character trader so if you want to sell your pilot hit me up with your eveboard. Jane Galt, is that you? By his postings it does seem like him! I was actually thinking exactly what you posted. I will add that in all my dealings with VMG they have honoured every detail that was ever agreed between us. The alt posters and the op need to read up on the detail of what the word mercenary means and the historical detail of what they can and will do if offered more lucrative terms, As such VMG are sticking to the true term of a mercenary by the word of it's meaning and good for them.
Thanks, Sol. Good to see we agree re: the remarkable similarity between Jane Galt and IChooseYou
Well, we did promise to hunt Jane Galt forever ...
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Sol epoch
HELVEGEN Jetpack Viking
373
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Posted - 2016.11.19 01:00:40 -
[731] - Quote
Estray Lassils wrote:Sol epoch wrote:Estray Lassils wrote:IChooseYou wrote:So where is this mysterious intel that I am missing to justify your betrayal towards me? Also, you said you refunded me. Does this include the cost of my fortizars that you are now killing? I haven't seen any deposits from you whatsoever - but maybe it is just me and I missed it.
Zion is a friend, but is not me. As you can see by looking through his post history, he was re-sold two weeks ago. I am a character trader so if you want to sell your pilot hit me up with your eveboard. Jane Galt, is that you? By his postings it does seem like him! I was actually thinking exactly what you posted. I will add that in all my dealings with VMG they have honoured every detail that was ever agreed between us. The alt posters and the op need to read up on the detail of what the word mercenary means and the historical detail of what they can and will do if offered more lucrative terms, As such VMG are sticking to the true term of a mercenary by the word of it's meaning and good for them. Thanks, Sol. Good to see we agree re: the remarkable similarity between Jane Galt and IChooseYou Well, we did promise to hunt Jane Galt forever ...
Indeed! And my little black book has names that still need crossing off as I am sure does yours.
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
530
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 01:10:29 -
[732] - Quote
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
3248
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 04:32:08 -
[733] - Quote
Don't post evemails guys... The eaisest way is to instead post an API of your mails. Full API's are also ok
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
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Secca Trild
Intergalactic Space Police
0
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Posted - 2016.11.19 05:03:56 -
[734] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:[quote=Secca Trild]
But otherwise, yes, discontinuing service in favor of another client is when there's a huge difference between what the clients are paying is entirely usual. The only unusual part is ending the contract mid-period and still actually giving a full refund.
People pay an assload for citadel takedowns because of how tedious and difficult it is, so when arranging a defensive contract both the mercenary and the client need to consider whether or not the monthly fee is sufficient to dissuade the merc from dropping it on a whim the first time someone shows up and offers them tens of billions to kill your fortizar.
Ok thanks for the explanation. Can you answer two more questions for me?
1. Isn't the whole point of the merc accepting the contract the definition of the merc accepting the price of their business? If not, was the client told that it would be open to paid contracts to VMG against it and it would cost X extra amount to make them safe from that? Would that not be the correct and honest way to operate? If not, why would the client not be given a chance to pay off the mercs after a contract had been issued along with proof?
2. The most important question. Doesn't this just mean that you can create a contract purposely with a low price, get the client to easily accept and change their timers to your primetime and off the clients primetime, and then 'claim' someone contracted you and shoot it with. Even if you did fully refund the original low cost, if this is premeditated, it is by definition scamming and there is no way to diffientuate between a legit contract and a scam. Firstly mercs don't normally reveal their client, and secondly even ingame mails and isk transfers can be easily faked.
That would be my biggest concern. Now that its happened once, you cannot say with certainly that they are legit anymore, which is a shame because that used to be a core principal for proper HS mercs. They could have as easily waited until the end of the first month and not renewed the contract and then taken the one to kill it and they would have gotten all the benefit and none of the bad press. Baffles me why they would ruin their rep for no reason |
Estray Lassils
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
16
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Posted - 2016.11.19 05:31:42 -
[735] - Quote
Secca Trild,
Read some of the earlier posts on uncanny similarities between Jane Galt and IChooseYou. Then search Jane Galt on forums and research her relationship with VMG.
In other words, #intel leads to #analysis leads to #reasons. Do I need to spell this out further?
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Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
260
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 07:18:09 -
[736] - Quote
See the kb for an even better story of when 4 p45 toons met 1 vmg toon.
Brutix navy issue (me) vs 2 cynabal and 2 garmurs. (P45).
Check out the results.... |
Rosal Milag
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2016.11.19 07:44:41 -
[737] - Quote
Estray Lassils wrote:Secca Trild,
Read some of the earlier posts on uncanny similarities between Jane Galt and IChooseYou. Then search Jane Galt on forums and research her relationship with VMG.
In other words, #intel leads to #analysis leads to #reasons. Do I need to spell this out further?
That's rich. You ended a contract because you have a grudge against another pilot and you suspected they were the same person. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath. You hem and haw, beating around the bush because you don't want to say that the contract was pulled on mere speculation.
Unprofessional and completely out of line for the name of mercenary.
How can you run a business when your alliance is so caught up in personal drama that you cripple yourself? You don't like the client, fine. Finish the contract and don't renew, no matter the price.
Right now, VMG is behaving like a bunch of thugs instead of professionals. Do what you want, it is a sandbox after all. But right now, CODE. has a better reputation for focusing on business over a pretty grudge. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4588
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 08:48:24 -
[738] - Quote
Secca Trild wrote:Ok thanks for the explanation. Can you answer two more questions for me?
1. Isn't the whole point of the merc accepting the contract the definition of the merc accepting the price of their business? If not, was the client told that it would be open to paid contracts to VMG against it and it would cost X extra amount to make them safe from that? Would that not be the correct and honest way to operate? If not, why would the client not be given a chance to pay off the mercs after a contract had been issued along with proof?
2. The most important question. Doesn't this just mean that you can create a contract purposely with a low price, get the client to easily accept and change their timers to your primetime and off the clients primetime, and then 'claim' someone contracted you and shoot it with. Even if you did fully refund the original low cost, if this is premeditated, it is by definition scamming and there is no way to diffientuate between a legit contract and a scam. Firstly mercs don't normally reveal their client, and secondly even ingame mails and isk transfers can be easily faked.
That would be my biggest concern. Now that its happened once, you cannot say with certainly that they are legit anymore, which is a shame because that used to be a core principal for proper HS mercs. They could have as easily waited until the end of the first month and not renewed the contract and then taken the one to kill it and they would have gotten all the benefit and none of the bad press. Baffles me why they would ruin their rep for no reason
1. Yes, absolutely mercenaries will try to set price points where they're unlikely to ever be given an offer that is sufficient to make it worth ditching the retainer contract. The problem with citadels is that people generally don't want to pay 5 billion isk a month for a defensive contract that they might not actually need, but people are willing to pay tens of billions to destroy a citadel. Paying people for structure defense in general is like paying someone for private security services who also happens to bust kneecaps for the mob. It's probably not a good idea to pay them minimum wage for it.
2. This is fairly unlikely to happen since it's the client that approaches the mercenary, not the other way around and because shooting citadels is an utter ****-show and not something you're likely to do unless you have an actual reason for it. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No, not really.
VMG probably don't give much of a damn about someone sperging out about whatever exactly happened here because it won't actually affect their reputation. Anyone who happens to drop a contract with them over it will rapidly find their structures being shot at by VMG themselves and with few options for defense. |
Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
260
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 09:08:11 -
[739] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Secca Trild wrote:Ok thanks for the explanation. Can you answer two more questions for me?
1. Isn't the whole point of the merc accepting the contract the definition of the merc accepting the price of their business? If not, was the client told that it would be open to paid contracts to VMG against it and it would cost X extra amount to make them safe from that? Would that not be the correct and honest way to operate? If not, why would the client not be given a chance to pay off the mercs after a contract had been issued along with proof?
2. The most important question. Doesn't this just mean that you can create a contract purposely with a low price, get the client to easily accept and change their timers to your primetime and off the clients primetime, and then 'claim' someone contracted you and shoot it with. Even if you did fully refund the original low cost, if this is premeditated, it is by definition scamming and there is no way to diffientuate between a legit contract and a scam. Firstly mercs don't normally reveal their client, and secondly even ingame mails and isk transfers can be easily faked.
That would be my biggest concern. Now that its happened once, you cannot say with certainly that they are legit anymore, which is a shame because that used to be a core principal for proper HS mercs. They could have as easily waited until the end of the first month and not renewed the contract and then taken the one to kill it and they would have gotten all the benefit and none of the bad press. Baffles me why they would ruin their rep for no reason 1. Yes, absolutely mercenaries will try to set price points where they're unlikely to ever be given an offer that is sufficient to make it worth ditching the retainer contract. The problem with citadels is that people generally don't want to pay 5 billion isk a month for a defensive contract that they might not actually need, but people are willing to pay tens of billions to destroy a citadel. Paying people for structure defense in general is like paying someone for private security services who also happens to bust kneecaps for the mob. It's probably not a good idea to pay them minimum wage for it. 2. This is fairly unlikely to happen since it's the client that approaches the mercenary, not the other way around and because shooting citadels is an utter ****-show and not something you're likely to do unless you have an actual reason for it. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No, not really. VMG probably don't give much of a damn about someone sperging out about whatever exactly happened here because it won't actually affect their reputation. Anyone who happens to drop a contract with them over it will rapidly find their structures being shot at by VMG themselves and with few options for defense.
Everytime you post I do wish you were in VMG and active....just saying =ƒÿë |
Tig3r Styl3
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2016.11.19 09:18:13 -
[740] - Quote
Hahahaha all this trash talk here. VMG suck like allways... this alliance is almost dead... dont spent any ISK or time here...
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4590
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 10:30:01 -
[741] - Quote
All these NPC corp characters, such authority, very convincing. Wow. |
Djayzere
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 13:33:29 -
[742] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:All these NPC corp characters, such authority, very convincing. Wow.
Fact is IChooseYou hasnt got a river to **** in, instead he uses brought characters to try and tarnish a forum thread which is actually hilarious.
Even if he pays PL (which if he is only willing to pay 1.5b for a months defence he better be ready for 10b+), VMG could just go hit it again at a later date no skin off their nose.
Then again i think he feels safe hiding behind IChooseYou + Alts then his main Jay Plorer, which explains why he keeps threatening with Trium. |
Tig3r Styl3
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2016.11.19 15:48:04 -
[743] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:All these NPC corp characters, such authority, very convincing. Wow.
Vimsy vortis = Natural bornkiller... both have the same IP |
Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
261
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 16:37:06 -
[744] - Quote
Tig3r Styl3 wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:All these NPC corp characters, such authority, very convincing. Wow. Vimsy vortis = Natural bornkiller... both have the same IP Yes and we both wear glasses. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4594
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 17:00:41 -
[745] - Quote
I guess the jig is up, you've discovered the terrible secret that Natural CloneKiller is my alt.
And after I went through all that effort of getting someone to pretend to be him in Discord during the wardec round table.
Also Ralph is me too. |
Sol epoch
HELVEGEN Jetpack Viking
374
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 17:02:36 -
[746] - Quote
Tig3r Styl3 wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:All these NPC corp characters, such authority, very convincing. Wow. Vimsy vortis = Natural bornkiller... both have the same IP
If you could see any IP from these two players which you can't and haven't just makes you look incredibly stupid, Which by your previous posts just confirms it to everybody. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4594
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 17:29:23 -
[747] - Quote
But seriously, there's no way we're the same person. Only 94% efficient? I'd biomass tbh. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19131
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 17:42:24 -
[748] - Quote
confirming vimsy is infact the only British person in the world that can pull off a believable irish accent while talking over himself in two different British accents. btw those losses were worth it!
We're Back in Business ,
have your very own Meeny Faced Bastards on call today
=]|[=
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Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
262
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 07:57:48 -
[749] - Quote
Open for new contracts.
We are keen to hit some of these new structures so if anyone has those contracts contact me.
Also signing up more citadel based contracts. |
Khromius
Commonwealth Mercenaries Vendetta Mercenary Group
82
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 17:13:14 -
[750] - Quote
Tig3r Styl3 wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:All these NPC corp characters, such authority, very convincing. Wow. Vimsy vortis = Natural bornkiller... both have the same IP
Swift as a frozen river. You're so a Rtrds Dept. |
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