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Little Fistter
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Posted - 2006.12.14 00:16:00 -
[1]
Lets see, almost a month training time to gain gang skills, all wasted.
CCP, you could screw up a wet dream!
Dumb Dumb Dumb!
and you still think we will pay you to get this kind of inconsideration?
Any chance I can get a refund? "Breach of contract" comes to mind.
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!"
Every time I get the right mix of skills learned, you pull the run from under me.
2004: Raven is king, I train two months for Caldari BS and missles, I just attain enough skill to survive a L4 mission, and you nerf Ravens and missles.
2005: Dominix with drones is king, I train Galente BS and drones, you introduce RMR and drones are reduced from 15 to 5! TBH, you did double their stats so that was not too bad...
2006: Gang skills and Command ships are king! I train gang skills and command and logistics and gang specializations and then... Revelations, gangs now mean little to less. Hell, even mining foreman bonus is nerfed.
2007: Will I be fool enough to train Salvaging, Probes and the other new skills?
Look, I love the premise of the game. The graphics are great and the buggy and poorly crafted user interface are a minor inconvienence, I will probably continue to pay you to play Eve.
But look, next time you decide to cripple our efforts, remember who pays the bills!
Sickened, Little Fistter  |
Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.14 01:14:00 -
[2]
+1 to new gang suckiness. we want the old system as an option k
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Ikkajo
Minmatar
Sirius Cybernetics Corpotation
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Posted - 2006.12.14 01:27:00 -
[3]
I'm sure others will jump down your throat much more viciously, but here's the nice reply: Gang skills work just fine. All you have to do is learn how to read, particularly the dev blogs.
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2006.12.14 02:07:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Ikkajo
I'm sure others will jump down your throat much more viciously, but here's the nice reply: Gang skills work just fine. All you have to do is learn how to read, particularly the dev blogs.
Gang formation is crappy. It randomly drops the boss on conversion to a fleet and in crashes you have to regang everybody.
Theres big scribbling to figure out who has the best skills in a squadron etcetcetc.
I think the new system needs work, it does have its + points though.
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The ECKI
Gallente
Cyberdyne Skynet Inc
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Posted - 2006.12.14 03:33:00 -
[5]
next problem is nobody can make a gang warp if he didnt form the fleet :( everytime i put somone to a comander give him boss it says: no you can't :? wy the squadron commander cant warp his squad? and why the wing com cant do this with his hole wing?
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Mike Yagon
Minmatar
The Nest
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.14 05:03:00 -
[6]
I don't see the big problem, Raven still is king of missions, dominix is still a horrible ship to fly against, and the command ships weren't changed.
I don't entirely like the new gang skill system either, but I do agree that the old system was flawed and needed fixing. But all the other points you are complaining about are really a non-issue. 
------
In Carebear We Trust |
Simon Illian
Caldari
Section XIII
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.14 08:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: The ECKI
next problem is nobody can make a gang warp if he didnt form the fleet :( everytime i put somone to a comander give him boss it says: no you can't :? wy the squadron commander cant warp his squad? and why the wing com cant do this with his hole wing?
Yes i don't knwo if it's intended but same things, squad commadner can't warp his squad.
Win Cdr. can if i remember (i got the skill for)
-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/
When you need a mad man, call me i'me ready to serve !
-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/null |
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.14 10:38:00 -
[8]
/me likes the new gang system, at least the broadcast cause the useless chatter about "where are we going", "wasnt paying attention whats 1st wp" "where are we warping/aligning too"
Ive only seen it in gang less then 20 ppl so far, but what ive seen was quiet a good idea, ofc the random crashing and whatnot sucks, but hopefully thats going to be addressed.
About the old system, yes was easier, but ppl being bugged or having 150ppl in one chat asking 67 random question was not that great either.
For FCs is a great new system cause with wings and squads ppl can address their quetsion directly to their wing leader or squad commander, and its eaiser to divide a fleet into different section with different things to do.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.14 10:45:00 -
[9]
I was in a hundred man fleet the other night.
Once squad leaders had been assigned, things seemed to work quite well.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Hehulk
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2006.12.14 14:09:00 -
[10]
Honestly, I like the new system. The tactical flexibality it allows it far far greater than the last system and if you've already invested heavily into leadership skills, can you honestly say you don't have the time to train one last skill to lv2 or 3? (I'm talking about wing command, since how many people really run gangs larger than 30 alot of the time?)
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It's great being minmatar, ain't it |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.12.14 14:44:00 -
[11]
The old system caused massive CPU load on the server.
It had to be changed for technical reasons.
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Malena
Perpetual Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.14 15:14:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Little Fistter
Lets see, almost a month training time to gain gang skills, all wasted.
CCP, you could screw up a wet dream!
Dumb Dumb Dumb!
and you still think we will pay you to get this kind of inconsideration?
Any chance I can get a refund? "Breach of contract" comes to mind.
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!"
Every time I get the right mix of skills learned, you pull the run from under me.
2004: Raven is king, I train two months for Caldari BS and missles, I just attain enough skill to survive a L4 mission, and you nerf Ravens and missles.
2005: Dominix with drones is king, I train Galente BS and drones, you introduce RMR and drones are reduced from 15 to 5! TBH, you did double their stats so that was not too bad...
2006: Gang skills and Command ships are king! I train gang skills and command and logistics and gang specializations and then... Revelations, gangs now mean little to less. Hell, even mining foreman bonus is nerfed.
2007: Will I be fool enough to train Salvaging, Probes and the other new skills?
Look, I love the premise of the game. The graphics are great and the buggy and poorly crafted user interface are a minor inconvienence, I will probably continue to pay you to play Eve.
But look, next time you decide to cripple our efforts, remember who pays the bills!
Sickened, Little Fistter
OR you could pick the ship YOU like, and want to fly, instead of trying to stick with the flavor of the month/quarter/year.
I agree, the implemenation of the new gang system hasn't been the greatest, and there are some problems, but I bug report them, and hopefully it gets changed...speaking of which, am I the only one who has trouble tagging stuff? Even when I form the gang and am boss, I can't tag after I convert it to fleet...I get the message that only the gang leader can tag....but since I am the fleet commander (wing, squad, whatever at that moment) I can't be the gang leader.
Back to topic... Raven still rocks missions...drones..well, if they obeyed their orders that would be a start, but that is another issue, we are talking about gangs.
As for logistics, hopefully you did a bit of research before you headed down that path, because if you have only been training that way for a month, you have long way to go to be competent at it. It takes at least a month just to get warfare link specialist (formerly wing command) so you can use command links, to say nothing of the specific warfare skills...
True, some nerfs happened to gangs..the one that ****es me off is the fact that the repair systems skill no longer applies to remote reppers, and so far, I haven't been able to get the cycle time reduction link to work, even though the other ones do. These are about specific modules, not the gang system as a whole.
My personal opinion: the gang system desperately needed overhaul. This one still has some problems, but I am willing to deal with them for the time being...I would rather have system stability and other features working correctly first. And I am speaking as a logistics dedicated person. (ALL relevant or even remotely relevant skills at 5)
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Forino Ovoli
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Posted - 2006.12.14 15:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
I was in a hundred man fleet the other night.
Once squad leaders had been assigned, things seemed to work quite well.
That is a viewpoint from someone that operates in "hundred man fleets" - in that case, the new system works just fine.
But, consider the small group of 4 or 5 friends that routinely play together. One of them trained each of five different leadership skills. Thus, they had an economy of scale in that when they come together as a group everyone benefits from each other.
No matter how you cut it, they are all screwed under this new system. If ONE of them trains up all the skills, then the others has a skill that is no longer of any use.
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Malena
Perpetual Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.14 15:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Forino Ovoli
Originally by: Rodj Blake
I was in a hundred man fleet the other night.
Once squad leaders had been assigned, things seemed to work quite well.
That is a viewpoint from someone that operates in "hundred man fleets" - in that case, the new system works just fine.
But, consider the small group of 4 or 5 friends that routinely play together. One of them trained each of five different leadership skills. Thus, they had an economy of scale in that when they come together as a group everyone benefits from each other.
No matter how you cut it, they are all screwed under this new system. If ONE of them trains up all the skills, then the others has a skill that is no longer of any use.
This presumes that all of you are on at the same time all the time...what happens when RL intrudes on one person? Does the group not go out? And as for the skill time wasted, I completely sympthasize, I really do, but surely you are not using EVERY skill you have trained EVERY time you go out. I.E. do you use your caldari industrial skills (random example) if you aren't in your badger? You simply cannot use every skill you have (once you get past 2-3 weeks in game) anyway. You might be flying Gallente battleships, which require Gallente cruiser and frigate to be trained...do you consider those wasted, or just grudgingly accept that you have to train them to get to where you want to be. I had to, and I hated it, and I consider those skillpoints wasted as well, but I am not petitioning or writing bug reports on them, or trying to change it through the forums....
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Forino Ovoli
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Posted - 2006.12.14 15:45:00 -
[15]
Malena - All of the examples you cited are based upon things people KNEW about when they trained those skills.
You know you can not use Cruiser skill when flying a Battleship.
This particular issue comes about from a decision people made to optimize their playing style in accordance with the way the system (used to) work.
I understand that MMOs will evolve - but how difficult would it be to allow "traditional" gang method for very small groups (less than 6 folks, for example) while still having the new system for larger fleets?
Please try to see past your own particular playstyle. There are very small corps of people that are friends in RL, are usually on at the same time and 90%+ of the time only gang with each other.
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Derrys
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.14 21:11:00 -
[16]
If you want to stay ahead of the nerfbat, plan ahead for the next big upheaval. Hint: Which race does everybody say needs a huge boost?
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Mephesto Nizal
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Posted - 2006.12.14 23:39:00 -
[17]
stop going for the flavor of the month Little Fistter. 
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Cha Wen
Caldari
Orion Ore International
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Posted - 2006.12.15 06:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Forino Ovoli
Originally by: Rodj Blake
I was in a hundred man fleet the other night.
Once squad leaders had been assigned, things seemed to work quite well.
That is a viewpoint from someone that operates in "hundred man fleets" - in that case, the new system works just fine.
But, consider the small group of 4 or 5 friends that routinely play together. One of them trained each of five different leadership skills. Thus, they had an economy of scale in that when they come together as a group everyone benefits from each other.
No matter how you cut it, they are all screwed under this new system. If ONE of them trains up all the skills, then the others has a skill that is no longer of any use.
Truthfully, if your mates spent the time to train each of the leadership bonuses up to level 5 then spend the time to get the leadership skill so that you can form a fleet and make a squad for the bonuses. I think leadership level 3 takes about half a day... that's 6 squad members  There is no obligation to train fleet command if you are running such a small team.
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Cunning
Caldari
Chronos Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.17 18:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cha Wen
Truthfully, if your mates spent the time to train each of the leadership bonuses up to level 5 then spend the time to get the leadership skill so that you can form a fleet and make a squad for the bonuses. I think leadership level 3 takes about half a day... that's 6 squad members There is no obligation to train fleet command if you are running such a small team.
I narrowly avoided the pitfall that the GP is highlighting:
I often fly with the same group of people, and we were planning on each getting a couple of the relevent gang bonus skills (the ones most directly relevent to each member, obviously) to level 4. That way, when we formed a gang we could enjoy the benifits brought to it by however many of the small group could make it. Luckily, I read the patch notes and warned my gang mates of the changes before they each wasted a few days of training.
Under the new system, if any one of us is the squad leader, only the (one or two) bonuses we have trained apply. In order to get the same set of bonuses as pre-patch, one person has to train up all the various gang bonus skills and be the squad leader. And if that guy can't show up, nobody gets any bonuses.
I can see how the fleet system could be really cool. It adds strategic tools that would be invaluable in actual fleet combat. But for those of us (probably the majority) who fly in small groups, the nerfing of the gang system is a Bad Thing(tm).
If I have my maths right (I'm not a CS-grad), the server-load problem of working out gang bonuses and sending health status updates (which was what the gang-nerf was meant to fix) is a geometricly-scaled problem. This means that doubling the number of people in a gang created 4 times as much load on the server. So I can understand why large gangs had to be nerfed. But I see no reason why the old gang system couldn't be brought back for small gangs (<10) - there would be minimal load issues, and it would greatly simplify the routine task of operating a small gang.
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Okkie2
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Posted - 2006.12.18 10:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Little Fistter
2004: Raven is king, I train two months for Caldari BS and missles, I just attain enough skill to survive a L4 mission, and you nerf Ravens and missles.
2005: Dominix with drones is king, I train Galente BS and drones, you introduce RMR and drones are reduced from 15 to 5! TBH, you did double their stats so that was not too bad...
Just wondering, but what ships do you think are king atm in lvl4 missions ? I always thought Raven is still #1, closely followed by the domi ?
Quote:
2006: Gang skills and Command ships are king! I train gang skills and command and logistics and gang specializations and then... Revelations, gangs now mean little to less. Hell, even mining foreman bonus is nerfed.
For big gangs the new system is very nice, for small gangs the old system was much better. Hopefully the old system will return for smaller gangs 
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Sugarbunny
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Posted - 2006.12.18 12:16:00 -
[21]
Is it just me thinking that every time something is being changed for the better, people come crying about how bad it is, simply because they dont understand and dont want to learn the new system?
Its the same with the new escrow/contracts system, when i talked to them whiners i found out that they didnt even know how to use the filters to find what they were looking for, a few didnt know about how auctions work either, but all they do is whine and whine.
Get a grip of yourselves! Take your time to look through the options that are given to you before you start crying!
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EPSILON DELTA
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Posted - 2006.12.18 13:52:00 -
[22]
Quote:
If you want to stay ahead of the nerfbat, plan ahead for the next big upheaval. Hint: Which race does everybody say needs a huge boost?
Armarr HAC lv5 ftw (by the time you finish training it)
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Harris
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Posted - 2006.12.18 15:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: EPSILON DELTA
Quote:
If you want to stay ahead of the nerfbat, plan ahead for the next big upheaval. Hint: Which race does everybody say needs a huge boost?
I'm using that theory on ships and holding onto my Deimos in the hope that it will be usefull for something other than gank squads and NPCing one day. 
To the OP, like everyone said. Stop training flavour of the month, decide what you like and stick with it.
It serves you right to be changing tracks again if you just want to fly most popular... (meant in the nicest possible way ).
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Wyehr
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Posted - 2006.12.18 20:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sugarbunny
Is it just me thinking that every time something is being changed for the better, people come crying about how bad it is, simply because they dont understand and dont want to learn the new system?
Its the same with the new escrow/contracts system, when i talked to them whiners i found out that they didnt even know how to use the filters to find what they were looking for, a few didnt know about how auctions work either, but all they do is whine and whine.
Get a grip of yourselves! Take your time to look through the options that are given to you before you start crying!
The new contract system, while more capable than the old escrow system, is not a superset of it. There are things that you could do with escrow before that you can not do now. No amount of looking through the options or learning the new system will change that.
The new fleet system, as nice as it is for large groups, is awful for small groups. I have read the dev posts, and I've read the forum discussions, and I've played with setting up gangs and fleets. I know exactly how to make a fleet with two ships and get the bonuses to apply to both. And it isn't worth it.
The few points I've spent in leadership will be useful some day in the future when I'm working on big fleet operations, but for small gangs, the entire reason I picked up the skillbooks, they are worthless.
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10bears
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Posted - 2006.12.21 22:10:00 -
[25]
One of my charactors spent much more than one month training leadership skills. Corp used him all the time. Now I only log him to train research skills and pop in a new blueprint. New gang feature, booo.
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deusine
Amarr
Reykjavik University Corpus Maximus
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Posted - 2006.12.22 12:34:00 -
[26]
gang skills work just dandy if you have the right tools for the job
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.12.22 13:53:00 -
[27]
ôgang skills work just dandy if you have the right tools for the jobô
I thought that didnÆt work any more. Leaders have to be in the same area as the fleet so that ship with no tank would die in seconds. It thought you could no longer sit in a safe spot.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
deusine
Amarr
Reykjavik University Corpus Maximus
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Posted - 2006.12.22 14:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôgang skills work just dandy if you have the right tools for the jobô
I thought that didnÆt work any more. Leaders have to be in the same area as the fleet so that ship with no tank would die in seconds. It thought you could no longer sit in a safe spot.
still works , just has to be in the same system
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scabbsssjr
Gallente
M'8'S
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Posted - 2006.12.22 15:28:00 -
[29]
Edited by: scabbsssjr on 22/12/2006 15:31:34
Originally by: Little Fistter
2004: Raven is king, I train two months for Caldari BS and missles, I just attain enough skill to survive a L4 mission, and you nerf Ravens and missles.
2005: Dominix with drones is king, I train Galente BS and drones, you introduce RMR and drones are reduced from 15 to 5! TBH, you did double their stats so that was not too bad...
2006: Gang skills and Command ships are king! I train gang skills and command and logistics and gang specializations and then... Revelations, gangs now mean little to less. Hell, even mining foreman bonus is nerfed.
2007: Will I be fool enough to train Salvaging, Probes and the other new skills?
2004: Ravens aren't nerfed useless, I use mine for almost anything. Missiles aren't useless, they are very effective with decent skills. A month of training and you can barely survive lvl 4s? I hope lvl 4s were harder back than, because I could afk threw most lvl 4s a month after I got my raven.
2005: A dom is a great ship, OMG they reduced the amount of drones you can deploy? But wait they made the drones you can deploy 2x as good, see a balance? A dom deploying 15 t2 heavy drones is called way overpowered. At its current state a nos dom is a great ship.
2006: That is so odd, my gangs work just fine. Maybe you can learn how to use them. If you have a commandship, you didn't waste your time. With a command ship comes pretty much all the skills needed for a hac.
2007: I hope you quite, stop following trends and do your own thing.
How does an late year 2005 character follow a 2004 trend?
What ever I say is my own views and not of my corp. |
Talmssar
Caldari
Raptus Regaliter
Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2006.12.23 11:02:00 -
[30]
Quote:
True, some nerfs happened to gangs..the one that ****es me off is the fact that the repair systems skill no longer applies to remote reppers, and so far, I haven't been able to get the cycle time reduction link to work, even though the other ones do. These are about specific modules, not the gang system as a whole.
Only way when I have got gang mods to work is when I'm in same squadron (leader). So my gangmod skills (boniis) apply to all 10 peeps *yipee* If I activate gang mods in as wing commander it do not apply to squadrons but I get benefit, as fleet commander I do same and no one benefits  It seems this system is luck based because some others have managed to get different results than I but I might suck on testing department.
To deusine... get your character off from test server and start play
I just prefer that all have good time here. |
Slax Kalimatar
Minmatar
Sarlacc Pit Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.23 14:25:00 -
[31]
i dunno whats your problem, all working as intended...
[Small fleet] (me got only leadership lvl2 and subs lvl1)
gang all up, convert to fleet.
you are (boss) and fleet commander.
if you got just a small fleet, move all ppl to squad 1 and yourself to squad 1 leader.
ding! bonus applys to full squad. you can squad warp, shout targets use the rest.
set all squad members including you to scout and you can use that shiny buttons, too.
only thing you cant do is to re-group.
having a fleet with no fleet commander and no wing commander is not a big problem.
[Medium Fleet]
gang up, convert to fleet.
you are boss and fleetcommander.
dunno about your skills, but if you didnt trained fleetcommander you better demote yourself to wing commander 1 leader.
the squads 1 - 5 you form up are under control of the wing 1.
assign to every squad a squad commander and make sure they got less boni then you can give.
Ding! working like intended... you get bonus, squads get bonus.
[Large Fleet}
Make sure you got the best boni in gang.
Make sure wing commanders got better boni then squad commanders.
If you dont. then the boni from squad/wing/fleet commander goes into their squads.
gang up convert to fleet.
form your wings, form your squads, assign wing commanders, assign squad commanders.
Ding! working like intended...
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Karon Wodens
LFC
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Posted - 2006.12.23 17:42:00 -
[32]
Breach of contract!?
Pfahahahahah! What's wrong with you? CCP's game... they can do as they please with it... if you dont like it, bail!
Think CCP is alone in such changes? Did you hear about Blizzard's expert decision on re-vamping their PVP rankings to a near complete reset? Now that's evil! But I very much doubt Blizzard is gonna refund any of ther 62 billion subscribers.
Caldari Prime: Think of that moment, remember what they did...
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Mr Popov
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.23 18:08:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Talmssar
Quote:
True, some nerfs happened to gangs..the one that ****es me off is the fact that the repair systems skill no longer applies to remote reppers, and so far, I haven't been able to get the cycle time reduction link to work, even though the other ones do. These are about specific modules, not the gang system as a whole.
Only way when I have got gang mods to work is when I'm in same squadron (leader). So my gangmod skills (boniis) apply to all 10 peeps *yipee* If I activate gang mods in as wing commander it do not apply to squadrons but I get benefit, as fleet commander I do same and no one benefits It seems this system is luck based because some others have managed to get different results than I but I might suck on testing department.
To deusine... get your character off from test server and start play
Talmassar,
Your gang bonuses don't work as fleet commander because I bet you don't have fleet command level I.
Your bonuses only work based on the level of command skills you have.
Anyone can command a squad,
Wing Commander skill gives you control [i]as a wing commander[\i] of 1 squad per level.
Fleet commander skill gives you control [i]as a fleet commander[\i] of 1 wing per level.
That's not to say you cannot create multiple squadrons and wings, but you cannot control or give gang bonuses to them.
Originally by: Sun Tzu
All warfare is based on deception.
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Jaggire
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Posted - 2006.12.24 21:44:00 -
[34]
That's what you get for constantly training for the new fad of the month.
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Warrio
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Posted - 2006.12.26 06:41:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Little Fistter
Any chance I can get a refund? "Breach of contract" comes to mind.
lol...
No, I would actually pay to sit in on that court case.
Well you see your honour, I got a new spaceship because it was 0rsome but now it's been nerfed and it's t3h sux0r. Can I plz get my money back or can I get sum ISKies or sumthing?
Fatal Revelations
Winners never quit and quitters never win.
But those who never win and never quit are ISK farmers.
- Plato |
Shandling
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Posted - 2006.12.26 10:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Little Fistter
2004: Flavor of the month arrives! I train for it and it gets nerfed! /cry
2005: Flavor of the month arrives! I train for it and it gets nerfed! /cry
2006: Flavor of the month arrives! I train for it and it gets nerfed! /cry
What's the moral of the story here kids?
Don't follow the FOTM!
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Anti Protagonist
Gallente
Archron Dusyfe Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.26 17:27:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Anti Protagonist on 26/12/2006 18:24:33
Originally by: Mr Popov
Talmassar,
Your gang bonuses don't work as fleet commander because I bet you don't have fleet command level I.
Your bonuses only work based on the level of command skills you have.
Anyone can command a squad,
Wing Commander skill gives you control [i]as a wing commander[\i] of 1 squad per level.
Fleet commander skill gives you control [i]as a fleet commander[\i] of 1 wing per level.
That's not to say you cannot create multiple squadrons and wings, but you cannot control or give gang bonuses to them.
A couple clarifications.... not anyone can command a squad and have bonuses apply. Your leadership skill determines the number of people you can have in a squad for bonuses to apply. If the squad commander is not qualified to command the squad (that is, they don't have the leadership skill required) then the squad gets no bonuses at all (not from the squad, not from the wing, and not from the fleet).
So the problem that you (Talmassar) are seeing when you are in the wing command position is most likely that either your squad had no commander, or did not have a commander skilled enough to command the squad.
The other thing to note is that the bonuses applied to commanders are a bit flakey due to technical limitations at the moment. Last I read, the commander will only get his own bonuses, not bonuses from commanders above him. One of the devs said that they will be looking to "fix" this.
As far as the OP.... I like the new gang mechanics. When me and friends go out, I either take the wing command lead or the squadron lead, depending on who is with us and what we're planning to do. On mining ops, I take wing command and provide bonuses for everyone and we put mining/combat/hauling into separate squadrons. Mining squad command is whoever has the best mining bonuses, combat is whoever has the next best combat bonuses (after me), and hauling is usually just someone with enough skill to command (or someone that gives good speed bonuses).
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Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.26 17:40:00 -
[38]
Leadership was a flavor of the month?!
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Barbara Nichole
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Posted - 2006.12.27 17:44:00 -
[39]
Don't want to have a mining fleet commander for my 3 miners. Don't want wings or squads. Want a gang; want mining gang bonus to apply to the 3.
Mining has nothing to do with fleet battles.. It needs to be treated differently.
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Galliana Foresta
Fleeting Moments of Insanity
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.12.27 23:58:00 -
[40]
Originally by: deusine
gang skills work just dandy if you have the right tools for the job
I'm curious.
Your image shows 8 command modules. You can use 3 by default due to ship bonii, and a further 3 thanks to the command processors, but how the hell did you get the last 2 on there? 
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VaderDSL
Caldari
Total Mayhem.
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.28 00:49:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Galliana Foresta
Originally by: deusine
gang skills work just dandy if you have the right tools for the job
I'm curious.
Your image shows 8 command modules. You can use 3 by default due to ship bonii, and a further 3 thanks to the command processors, but how the hell did you get the last 2 on there?
He is a proper pilot of the fleet commandships, you'll notice how only 6 are active ... you can fit as many warfare links as you want, but depending on skills/moduls you can only run a certain amount.
However it is always best to fit as many warfare links as possible allowing you to vary the bonuses depending on what your fleet requires.
For example, the fleet commander in the flet command ship with 8 warfare links may enable the three skirmish warfare links as his gang moves to tackle down a gang of hostiles.
Once they are locked down (after receiving a range bonus to webbers/warp scramblers) and speed, while lowering their signature radius' he may then swith off the skirmish warfare modules and concentrate on enhancing his fleets defences with increased shield and armour resistances and lowering repper/shield booster capacitor need, he may also increase the fleets resilience to EW or increase friendly EW platform strengths.
The variations are endless |
Galliana Foresta
Fleeting Moments of Insanity
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.12.28 11:34:00 -
[42]
Ahhahhhh! That explains it here was I thinking he was h4xing... Didn't realise you could fit as many as you like.
Pity safespotted gang leaders don't get on killmails tbh. 
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Miss Sommers
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Posted - 2006.12.29 20:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Barbara Nichole
Don't want to have a mining fleet commander for my 3 miners. Don't want wings or squads. Want a gang; want mining gang bonus to apply to the 3.
If you are running 3+ miners, you'd want someone with Mining Foremand and Mining Director. So you already have a leadership V character, so the Wing Command skills are no big thing.
Our mining Director can runs multiple squads of miners, each with a seperate squad leader handling movements of that group of miners and haulers.
All it means is that there are multiple people that can invite more people to mining ops, more people that can gang warp. I think it's a great change for mining ops. How many times did 'Gang warping, guard ships abort' cause problems in the past. Now the escort ships are just another squad.
Seems pretty cool to me :-)
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Harris
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Posted - 2006.12.31 23:53:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Barbara Nichole
Don't want to have a mining fleet commander for my 3 miners. Don't want wings or squads. Want a gang; want mining gang bonus to apply to the 3.
Mining has nothing to do with fleet battles.. It needs to be treated differently.
My mining director is wing commander. He can control 2 squads. He tanks the spawn.
Both squads get his bonuses.
1st squad is the miners. They get all the mining bonuses, only thing was to make sure that the squad commander had leadership lvl 5 to cover the size of our gangs... it's me, I do.
2nd squad are the haulers who also get randomly effective bonuses as the mining director works up his skills. Not that they need them but they are part of the gang which works perfectly.
Person who made the gang is boss. He makes mining director the leader. When he crashes (twice now) some random guy gets the boss tag and reassigns it to the mining director when he logs back on.
System is made this way to reduce lag (stop having to figure out who is going to apply bonuses to who each session change). It works. Fine. No problem
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10bears
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Posted - 2007.01.02 19:49:00 -
[45]
Originally by: deusine
gang skills work just dandy if you have the right tools for the job
This was not the problem. The problem was in how to form the fleet so bonuses were distributed. This is what i found. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=447520
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Terrance O'Conner
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Posted - 2007.01.04 00:38:00 -
[46]
I bellieve this new system reflects real life just great, - it's the commanders tactics (leadership skills) that gets in play when in a fleet. How would real life military units perform if everyone had a say in stressful situations? In reflection of this I think they did a good job, Fleet/wing/squaddron commaders provide bonuses as they are the ones who relay orders. It's not grunt #145 who relays his commands to the fleet and therefore the fleet doesn't get the bonus (even though this grunt might be very good at that specific task). As in all command situations orders (and hence bonus) are relayed from top down. If you have a problem, train the skills, leadership and wing command doesn't take all that long to train.
Only problem i see is that wing command lvl1 and fleet command lvl1 are more or less useless. Take a guy with wing command 1, he could make a squad of 10 members including himself and relay his bonus to all members, but if he's designated as wing commander, he requires at least another gang-member with leadership lvl5 to be able to support a fleet of 10. Same goes with fleet command. Make it so that at lvl1 you could control 2 squads/wings, else in effect all lvl1 does is to make another commander in the fleet, which isn't very usefull. Kinda like a coy commander only having one platoon in his command, then it's a waste of a good officer, let the platoon commander command his platoon, and give a coy commander at least two platoons to play with.
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Erim Solfara
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Posted - 2007.01.06 01:00:00 -
[47]
/SIGNED
The old gang system needs to be an option for small gangs. No arguments.
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Proposed new ship class |
Nir
The Doldrums
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Posted - 2007.01.06 01:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Terrance O'Conner
I bellieve this new system reflects real life just great, - it's the commanders tactics (leadership skills) that gets in play when in a fleet.
This is clearly also CCP's thinking behind the changes, and perfectly demonstrates why real life and game should be kept seperate. In real life, field marshall Rommel never had to deal with disconnects and lag.
In a game like this, with such a long history of instability and lag *especially* linked with fleet battles I find it mind boggling how CCP put such a heavy burden on a SINGLE player. Its just asking for trouble.
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