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Nightfox BloodRaven
State Protectorate Caldari State
42
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Posted - 2015.09.08 02:02:28 -
[1] - Quote
Any word on when this might occur?
Still wanna know why they dont have t2 resist lol
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unidenify
Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium
128
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Posted - 2015.09.08 02:32:43 -
[2] - Quote
probably same reason why Marauder don't have t2 resist.
reason is I don't know why
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Nightfox BloodRaven
State Protectorate Caldari State
42
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Posted - 2015.09.08 02:43:57 -
[3] - Quote
unidenify wrote:probably same reason why Marauder don't have t2 resist.
reason is I don't know why
LOL marauders dont have t2 resist? lol never heard of bastion ? lol |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
859
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Posted - 2015.09.08 04:35:31 -
[4] - Quote
Both classes should have T2 resists.
Bastion is a seperate thing. |
FireFrenzy
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
578
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Posted - 2015.09.08 05:40:22 -
[5] - Quote
marauders in bastion have t2 resists i think... marauders with base t2 resists would be a thing to see though.... |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4630
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Posted - 2015.09.08 05:48:02 -
[6] - Quote
unidenify wrote:probably same reason why Marauder don't have t2 resist. reason is I don't know why You obviously missed the memo...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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RcTamiya
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.08 06:28:08 -
[7] - Quote
FireFrenzy wrote:marauders in bastion have t2 resists i think... marauders with base t2 resists would be a thing to see though....
140k dps tank on Vargur aint enough :) |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1215
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Posted - 2015.09.08 09:07:51 -
[8] - Quote
Nightfox BloodRaven wrote: Still wanna know why they dont have t2 resist lol
As has been pointed out in all the other BLOPS threads they do not need nor should they have T2 resists
they can already mount a good size tank for what they do these are not ships that are meant to stay in field for very long and have instead given up high tank for their extreme mobility.
Blops do not need all that much changed it is a relatively balanced class all the different blops have their role and do it very well. Even the under appreciated Sin has its place and fills its niche better than any of the other blops.
with that said there are a few small changes that could be made here or there to the blops and yes phoebe did take away some of their maneuverability by forcing them to commit to the field until their timer winds down rather than just being able to cap up and GTFO if they landed in a mess.
common things that come up that blops do not need
-Cov ops cloak
-higher scan res (or reduction to cloak penalty)
-T2 resists (a slightly better resist profile could be warranted)
-Removal of fatigue
-larger fuel bay
-more E-war
-larger jump range
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
437
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Posted - 2015.09.08 09:19:29 -
[9] - Quote
This post is neither an idea nor a new feature... |
Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
1990
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Posted - 2015.09.08 09:50:01 -
[10] - Quote
The longer this goes on the more i think adding a cover cloak would be the best option. If this where to happen, when you compare a cover black ops to all other covert combat ships, it would fit in nicely.
DPS would only be a little more than a T3 or stratios
Their tank and scan res are lower than a t3
Their align time is longer, making them easier to catch on gates
The list goes on...
It makes zero sense to deny battleships access to a covert cloak simply because they are called battleships.
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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Luscius Uta
155
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Posted - 2015.09.08 10:41:53 -
[11] - Quote
Even though Blops are usually designed for ganks and bridging, I think that ships so valuable shouldn't have such paper-thin tanks. Even stealth bombers have better tanks when you compare them with T1 ships of the same class. While I don't think they should be as tanky as Marauders, they should at least have the same resist profile. Also, since they commonly have a cap booster fitted, give them a bonus to cap injection amount. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1470
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Posted - 2015.09.08 10:48:38 -
[12] - Quote
i dont think people understand when asking for a covert ops cloak, they dont need it because they have a jump drive, they dont need t2 resists because they have a jump drive
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1470
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Posted - 2015.09.08 10:49:58 -
[13] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:The longer this goes on the more i think adding a covert cloak would be the best option. If this where to happen, when you compare a cover black ops to all other covert combat ships, it would fit in nicely.
DPS would only be a little more than a T3 or stratios
Their tank and scan res are lower than a t3
Their align time is longer, making them easier to catch on gates
The list goes on...
I can't think of a single legitimate reason not to do this... It makes zero sense to deny battleships access to a covert cloak simply because they are called battleships.
legitimate reason = they have a jump drive, do you really think adding covops cloak to such a slow ship would have any benefit at all? why even use a blops if other battleships do brawling better, blops is made to be a suprise ship not something which has to take gates to get to a fight.
cov ops cloak on a blops is the stupidest idea ive ever heard
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1217
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Posted - 2015.09.08 10:58:45 -
[14] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Even though Blops are usually designed for ganks and bridging, I think that ships so valuable shouldn't have such paper-thin tanks.
A. Cost has nothing to do with it
B. these ships do not have paper thin tanks. Some fits are paper thin to get the most out of one aspect of the ship but they can also manage a pretty hefty brick tank
Now on to why no to the Cov ops cloak
while the ability to warp cloaked would not break the black ops it would change a good deal of the mechanics and fitting choices
for one the bonus to the cloaked speed would have to be nerffed removing a reason to fit a variety of cloaks
they would have to have their sensor strengths nerfed removing the reward for not fitting one or for fitting higher metta cloaks
all of that along with the fact that BLOPS do not need a cov ops cloak is why most say no to the Cov ops cloak
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
1990
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Posted - 2015.09.08 11:43:13 -
[15] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote: legitimate reason = they have a jump drive, do you really think adding covops cloak to such a slow ship would have any benefit at all? why even use a blops if other battleships do brawling better, blops is made to be a suprise ship not something which has to take gates to get to a fight.
"Because it has a jump drive" is not a legitimate reason to not give a cloak. And neither is "because they shouldn't use gates". opening up more opportunities for Blops to be caught on gates would be a good thing IMO.
I would rather black ops be changed into something fun and interesting to fly rather than yet another overtanked dps platfor than can drop on a target out of the blue.
So i stick to what i said; black ops should get a covert cloak. Any issues you have with it can easily be addressed with mechanic tweaks.
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1951
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Posted - 2015.09.08 11:58:43 -
[16] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote: Any issues people have with a cloak can easily be addressed with mechanic tweaks.
LOLWUT?!
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1471
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:04:11 -
[17] - Quote
having a jumpdrive is a very legitimate reason to not give it a cov ops cloak, you just refuse to accept it, a ship than can drop on other ships via a covert cyno does not need to have a covert ops cloak, its pointless, and i didnt say "they shouldnt use gates" you can use gates all you want in a black ops it still has a cloak and has enough tank to burn back to a gate if it gets in trouble and it can also fit a mjd along with so much tackle, ewar and dps.
being able to kill them on gates is not a valid reason to give a cov ops cloak.
And black ops are super fun the way they are
do you live in highsec by any chance?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1951
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:07:05 -
[18] - Quote
Actually the legitimate call for it, is wormholes, for heavier additions to a cloaky fleet.
They'd make a nice change of pace to see. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1217
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:15:17 -
[19] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Actually the legitimate call for it, is wormholes, for heavier additions to a cloaky fleet.
They'd make a nice change of pace to see.
i already use them in wh fleets.....
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1217
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:26:17 -
[20] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: for one the bonus to the cloaked speed would have to be nerffed removing a reason to fit a variety of cloaks
all of that along with the fact that BLOPS do not need a cov ops cloak is why most say no to the Cov ops cloak
What it "needs" is down to personal opinion but that's not to say yours isn't valuable. I see no reason for the cloak speed bonus to be removed... Maybe the bonus should be increased but only applies to non covert cloaks. So i stick to what i said; black ops should get a covert cloak as giving it more tank or more dps is a far greater balance issue. Any issues people have with a cloak can easily be addressed with mechanic tweaks.
the only thing it needs a cov cloak for is to warp while off D-scan
and to do this you want to give up or put exceptions into bonuses
loose risk/reward in the form of different cloak choices
nerf base stats of the hull
this is just not a good trade in any way so how about an argument as to why they should have cov ops cloaks
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1951
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:30:34 -
[21] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:afkalt wrote:Actually the legitimate call for it, is wormholes, for heavier additions to a cloaky fleet.
They'd make a nice change of pace to see. i already use them in wh fleets..... this is mosstly for lulz as t3s do it better and would still even if blops got the cov cloak
Blops can get better DPS/hull ratio if you're low on bodies.
Redeemer is a solid 1100-1200 with heat - cloaky T3s can't get up there.
It's niche, granted.
I doubt much else would change even if they got the cloak, let's face it the existing meta is jump>gank>watch netflix whilst waiting out fatigue>jump home. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1217
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:33:36 -
[22] - Quote
afkalt wrote:
Blops can get better DPS/hull ratio if you're low on bodies.
Redeemer is a solid 1100-1200 with heat - cloaky T3s can't get up there.
It's niche, granted.
I doubt much else would change even if they got the cloak, let's face it the existing meta is jump>gank>watch netflix whilst waiting out fatigue>jump home.
true but how much are you willing to lose for that niche
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1951
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:39:16 -
[23] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:afkalt wrote:
Blops can get better DPS/hull ratio if you're low on bodies.
Redeemer is a solid 1100-1200 with heat - cloaky T3s can't get up there.
It's niche, granted.
I doubt much else would change even if they got the cloak, let's face it the existing meta is jump>gank>watch netflix whilst waiting out fatigue>jump home.
true but how much are you willing to lose for that niche
I'd like to think they've already paid for their sins with fatigue tbh
However I don't want one, doesn't matter to me, just pointing out there is a narrow case where it would be useful. It wouldn't add much to the area of the game I use mine in. |
Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
1990
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:44:53 -
[24] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: this is just not a good trade in any way so how about an argument as to why they should have cov ops cloaks
Simple. Right now they are either bridging platforms or gank ships. If you use it as a gank ship there are already ships that can do the job as good if not better and if you are using it a bridge ship, you are a bored pilot or and alt..
A covert ops cloak would make the ship better in my opinion, while keeping it balanced. I'm not saying that it needs to have a cloak, i'm saying that a covert cloak would be better than T2 resists.
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1218
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:48:02 -
[25] - Quote
afkalt wrote:I'd like to think they've already paid for their sins with fatigue tbh However I don't want one, doesn't matter to me, just pointing out there is a narrow case where it would be useful. It wouldn't add much to the area of the game I use mine in.
Well like i have pointed out being active during warp is not the only thing they do different and this would break them if they stayed as they are now lol
as well fatigue did not hurt them near as much as you hear ppl complain about other than no instant gtfo once cap is up
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1218
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:52:52 -
[26] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: this is just not a good trade in any way so how about an argument as to why they should have cov ops cloaks
Simple. Right now they are either bridging platforms or gank ships. If you use it as a gank ship there are already ships that can do the job as good if not better and if you are using it a bridge ship, you are a bored pilot or and alt. Adding a cloak would make black ops the next step for those of us who like cloaky combat and scouting, at the price of the inherent weaknesses of battleships. A covert ops cloak would make the ship better in my opinion, while keeping it balanced. I'm not saying that it needs to have a cloak, i'm saying that a covert cloak would be better than T2 resists.
except it is meant to be a gank ship a get in do the job get out deal
not many ships can do the gank job as good as some of the blops
but plenty of ships can do scouting much much better and it would not make them much better for cloaky combat
and even if cov cloak is better that t2 resists neither is better than using the cov ops cloak
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
1990
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:54:47 -
[27] - Quote
So you think they are perfect the way they are?
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: and even if cov cloak is better that t2 resists neither is better than using the cov ops cloak
What?
You sound like an idiot when you say "create content" when you mean find a fight, gank, etc... Stop it!
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1474
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:55:40 -
[28] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:So you think they are perfect the way they are?
I dont see an issue with them tbh
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1951
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Posted - 2015.09.08 13:03:34 -
[29] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:afkalt wrote:I'd like to think they've already paid for their sins with fatigue tbh However I don't want one, doesn't matter to me, just pointing out there is a narrow case where it would be useful. It wouldn't add much to the area of the game I use mine in. Well like i have pointed out being active during warp is not the only thing they do different and this would break them if they stayed as they are now lol as well fatigue did not hurt them near as much as you hear ppl complain about other than no instant gtfo once cap is up
Oh it doesn't hurt that much, it's just in the field of collateral damage waiting on timers is all. Hurt? No. Engaging gameplay and meaningful decisions? Good lord no. Largely down to their cloak, just activate and wait. |
Luscius Uta
155
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Posted - 2015.09.08 13:27:35 -
[30] - Quote
I wouldn't want to see them being able to fit Covops cloak but making them not appear on dscan could be interesting... |
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