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Iva Soreass
Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.16 12:11:00 -
[1]
Are they viable solo pvp ships ? i wouldnt want to spec for it just to be able not to solo very well in them.
Any advice ? maybe go a dif racial path for solo recon cruisers?
If gallente are good any advice on skills that would benifit me ?.
Thanks for any info \o/
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Rhamnousia
Caldari Templars of Light Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.12.16 13:10:00 -
[2]
gallente recon ships aren't solo PvP vessle..
it's true that they hav awsomely awsome ship bonus gearing toward crippling the opponent, the DPS, however, is another issue. arazu cant dps for sh*t.. and that's pretty much the end of the like for a solo PvP ships.
u should brought along another recon at least, preferbly a curse/pilgrim, since they deal out the most dmg among recon line of work. (not sure if they do better than the rapier/huginn, i need a clarification)
again, recon ships are deadly vessles, but only if they hav a "gang" to back them up.
small gang with a recon can turn the table around in a very suprising way.
all i can tell yer is gear toward the ship's bonuses and work with gang, HAC is a better option for solo PvP, ishtar, mmmkay :P --------------------------------------- - yes, im a noob - yes, im a nut job - no, i dont give a .... about what u think of my noobness - now, tell me sumthing i dont know |
Iva Soreass
Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.16 16:06:00 -
[3]
meh :| i just cannot decide what class//ship to go for . Im a casual player , dont get much time and when i do its mostly solo. realy thought recons where the way to go for nice good solo pvp.
Meh i give up , supose im destined for mission *****ing :(
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Kulmid
Nubs. Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.16 16:10:00 -
[4]
I solo in my Arazu all the time, I consider it one of the best solo ships around, I'd show you my killboard where I solo'd a Domi and a Geddon at the same time, but I don't think that is necessary
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Zendor
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.12.16 16:27:00 -
[5]
Recons shine in gangs. Arazu, Rapier and Pilgrim are great solo ships too. DPS is an issue but there are ways round that.
Give them a go - a lot of fun (if you can afford cloaks :/ )
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Caletha
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Posted - 2006.12.16 16:29:00 -
[6]
Rhamnousia is lying, he just doesn't want you to fly one.
The Gallente recon is perhaps one of the best, if not -the- best recon to solo in.
With a normal warp-scrambler hitting ranges of 30+ km, and the ability to reduce a targets targeting range to 10% of what it was is very powerfull. Let alone what a friend of mine does (2x domi warp disruptors, 54km warp-scrambling).
What the arazu would have difficulty with would be ships that have a good tank and/or are faster then them. If your target can close the range fast (e.g. mwd-cruisers/frigs) then you'll have big issues, and if your target has a (very) good tank, you simply cant do enough damage to kill it.
I personally use a Rapier a lot to solo in, same idea as the arazu but I can keep my targets at 28km, webbed + damped. If the arazu isnt the best solo recon, then the rapier would be
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Rhamnousia
Caldari Templars of Light Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:24:00 -
[7]
i agree that gall recon are good ships .. i fancy to fly one myself (training for it atm) ... just that recons are better off with a gang :P as they shine like stars in the midnight sky. a small gang of recons can do sum serious dmg ... let's just say an arazu, a pilgim, a rapier, and a falcon --------------------------------------- - yes, im a noob - yes, im a nut job - no, i dont give a .... about what u think of my noobness - now, tell me sumthing i dont know |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:33:00 -
[8]
Gallente recons have serious damage issues, but they're very good at locking down a single target. Like the Minmatar recons, they're far more specialized than the Caldari jammobiles and then Amarr pwnmobiles so they'll likely always be pretty cheap.
30+km tackling is invaluable to roaming gangs. Just as invaluable as having 30+km webbers when vagabonds show up. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Sir Howard
Gallente Four Rings Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:45:00 -
[9]
lol...ok I just got the OP's name
/slaps forehead
"This is a bad idea wrapped in a horrible plan and shipped in a retarded box" |
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:50:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Caletha Rhamnousia is lying, he just doesn't want you to fly one.
The Gallente recon is perhaps one of the best, if not -the- best recon to solo in.
With a normal warp-scrambler hitting ranges of 30+ km, and the ability to reduce a targets targeting range to 10% of what it was is very powerfull. Let alone what a friend of mine does (2x domi warp disruptors, 54km warp-scrambling).
What the arazu would have difficulty with would be ships that have a good tank and/or are faster then them. If your target can close the range fast (e.g. mwd-cruisers/frigs) then you'll have big issues, and if your target has a (very) good tank, you simply cant do enough damage to kill it.
I personally use a Rapier a lot to solo in, same idea as the arazu but I can keep my targets at 28km, webbed + damped. If the arazu isnt the best solo recon, then the rapier would be
Ummm me thinks the pilgrim is a better solo ship...
Anyways,it can solo but its much better off in a gang. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. |
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PathetiQ
Gallente The Rat Pack
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Posted - 2006.12.21 19:32:00 -
[11]
lachesis can be great at pvp :P
arazu is a Recon ship not a force recon! its great to kill a lot of target but yeah you have to choose them an know how to be stealth and cloak ;)
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2006.12.21 20:04:00 -
[12]
Recon ships are realy intended to be scouts for larger fleets, Its alot easier to win a fleet battle if you already have targets priortized with tags and everyone knows exactly what to do and when to do it before each side even meets in space (and ideally before the enemy even knows someone is there).
The gal one makes a superior scrambler, just concentrate on avoiding being tagged as a primary target and focus on keeping ships from warping away and screwing with their lock times with dampers.
If you want to use it as a solo Pvp ship use your long scramble range to you advantage and keep distance and use dampers. You can effectivly fight and scrable at 30-32km so dont be shy about long range battles. Just a single heavy webber drone will make sure your target cant get away (dampers help it not get destroyed).
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Prant
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Posted - 2006.12.21 22:55:00 -
[13]
I've been on the receiving end of an Arazu and they work.
Its the ECM.
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Elfman
Obsidian Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.21 23:00:00 -
[14]
I use a arazu and lachesis solo with no problems.
Its just down to picking the targets and having all tech2 guns and drones.
arazu with 3 250mm tech2 3 light and 2 med tech2 drones can lay the hurt down plenty.
Just stay out of the targets lock range since with recon 4 you can warp scram to 36k.
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.21 23:40:00 -
[15]
Yes, the Pilgrim is the best solo recon, but the Arazu and Rapier are perfectly capable too (and only the Falcon's pathetic DPS keeps it from being good solo). Sure, you might get fewer kills than with other ships, with the covert ops cloak your worst case scenario is you get the wrong target and never uncloak.
The only difference is the Pilgrim has a broader range of targets/situations where it can win. With the Arazu or Rapier, you just have to be more careful with which targets you engage. You have a covert ops cloak, so use it, set up the situation so the target is vulnerable to your form of ewar, and kill it.
In the case of the Arazu, you know your weakness is going to be fast ships that can get inside your damps and get a lock, or well-tanked ships that can hold you off long enoug to crawl into range. So don't play that game, pick on targets that aren't fast enough. Or that are already engaged with someone and webbed, etc.
For example: NPCing battleships. They're slow and easily out-run, so they can't get out of scramble range or inside lock range. And to offset your lower DPS, wait until they engage the rats... let the NPCs do the hard work, pin them in place, and collect the loot.
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.22 00:03:00 -
[16]
When flying one of these, how long is the recalibration time on the cloak before you can lock anyone? Do you have to fit a sensor booster or risk losing most of your targets to warping out?
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.22 00:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin The only difference is the Pilgrim has a broader range of targets/situations where it can win.
Isn't that true nowdays IMO. What made the pilgrim so strong pre-kali was ECM - now I am pretty much at a loss what to fit in its med slots.
Its problem is that it has a very low range - unless you use faction items his nos limits it to 12k. 3 t2 Damperners with max spec skills and 2 dampener rigs will bring BSs to a range of 8-9k, so those might be an option vs BSs. But you really need lvl 5 in the spec and if the BS has a single sensor booster you'll die. Cruisers will get you because they are faster and will be able to catch up with you. TDs are pretty much worthless, because their range reduction won't help at 12k ranges, and their tracking malus won't really stop them hitting you if you are webbed.
The best setup I have seen was 2 dampeners and 1 ECM burst, but even that is rather so-so.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.22 00:25:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 22/12/2006 00:25:07
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Merin Ryskin The only difference is the Pilgrim has a broader range of targets/situations where it can win.
Isn't that true nowdays IMO. What made the pilgrim so strong pre-kali was ECM - now I am pretty much at a loss what to fit in its med slots.
Tracking disruptors. See that nice 25% bonus to them? Sure, you won't be taking on passive-tanked Drakes or Ravens as well as before, but you can completely shut down turret ships. And guess what many of the best PvP ships are?
Quote: Its problem is that it has a very low range - unless you use faction items his nos limits it to 12k.
So? It also has a covert ops cloak to sneak into place. Why are you ever going to be decloaked outside 12km?
Quote: 3 t2 Damperners with max spec skills and 2 dampener rigs will bring BSs to a range of 8-9k, so those might be an option vs BSs. But you really need lvl 5 in the spec and if the BS has a single sensor booster you'll die. Cruisers will get you because they are faster and will be able to catch up with you.
I think you're confused here... the comment about damping NPC-ing battleships was talking about the Arazu. All you need to do is get their max target range below your scramble range (easy to do), then wait for the NPCs to do the job on the helpless BS.
Quote: TDs are pretty much worthless, because their range reduction won't help at 12k ranges, and their tracking malus won't really stop them hitting you if you are webbed.
Think again. A single tracking disruptor (no rigs) from a Pilgrim/Curse will drop you to 35% or less of your normal range/tracking. Add a second and you're really in trouble.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.22 00:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Tracking disruptors. See that nice 25% bonus to them? Sure, you won't be taking on passive-tanked Drakes or Ravens as well as before, but you can completely shut down turret ships. And guess what many of the best PvP ships are?
You obviously have never ever used TDs...
Otherwise you would know that they have effeciently no effect on medium blasters and ACs. Try fighting an AC rupture with an arbi & 3 TDs. He will eat you alive.
And BS class ACs and blasters also won't get an high enough penality to stop hitting you if they web you.
TDs are only really effective vs longrange weapons and pulse lasers.
Quote: So? It also has a covert ops cloak to sneak into place. Why are you ever going to be decloaked outside 12km?
The problem is not getting into distance, but fighting at that distance. Both TDs and SDs are very ineffective at close ranges.
Quote: I think you're confused here... the comment about damping NPC-ing battleships was talking about the Arazu. All you need to do is get their max target range below your scramble range (easy to do), then wait for the NPCs to do the job on the helpless BS.
Sorry, the confused person here is you. I am not commenting about the arazu, I am talking about what EW options the pilgrim has.
Quote: Think again. A single tracking disruptor (no rigs) from a Pilgrim/Curse will drop you to 35% or less of your normal range/tracking. Add a second and you're really in trouble.
I am not thinking, I am testing. I know from personal experience when TDs work and when not. You should try it sometimes.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.22 01:26:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 22/12/2006 01:27:13
Originally by: Aramendel Otherwise you would know that they have effeciently no effect on medium blasters and ACs. Try fighting an AC rupture with an arbi & 3 TDs. He will eat you alive.
Key point here: Arbitrator is a paper-thin T1 ewar cruiser. Pilgrim is not. Comparing the two is just silly, the Arbitrator's entire tank is based on the TDs knocking out the target's guns. The Pilgrim on the other hand, can run a very nice tank and survive the shots that manage to hit.
Once the web goes down (a very short process when you're draining 200 cap every 5 seconds), that AC rupture has essentially zero chance to hit. Run the tracking numbers yourself and see.
Quote: And BS class ACs and blasters also won't get an high enough penality to stop hitting you if they web you.
Try again... assuming one 90% web, even BS electron blasters will have about a 20% chance to hit in a 2.5km orbit. When/if the web goes down, you might as well round it to zero.
TDs are only really effective vs longrange weapons and pulse lasers.
Quote: So? It also has a covert ops cloak to sneak into place. Why are you ever going to be decloaked outside 12km?
Quote: The problem is not getting into distance, but fighting at that distance. Both TDs and SDs are very ineffective at close ranges.
True of SDs, but completely false about TDs. Against ACs and blasters, the only relevant part of the TD is the tracking loss (optimal is tiny anyway, so most of the overall range is falloff and unaffected). And to maximize transversal, you want to be up close.
Quote:
Quote: Think again. A single tracking disruptor (no rigs) from a Pilgrim/Curse will drop you to 35% or less of your normal range/tracking. Add a second and you're really in trouble.
I am not thinking, I am testing. I know from personal experience when TDs work and when not. You should try it sometimes.
And I'm telling you to actually run the numbers on it. Use the conveniently provided tracking guide, a Pilgrim's TDs will reduce incoming damage, especially once their cap dies and the web shuts down.
=====================================
But in the end, it's kind of a silly point. Who cares if in some situations you can't solo-kill a BS. You have a covert ops cloak, if you can't evade that blasterthron's guns, don't decloak. That's the fundamental rule of recon ships, just go solo the targets with vulnerable setups.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.22 19:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Key point here: Arbitrator is a paper-thin T1 ewar cruiser. Pilgrim is not. Comparing the two is just silly, the Arbitrator's entire tank is based on the TDs knocking out the target's guns. The Pilgrim on the other hand, can run a very nice tank and survive the shots that manage to hit.
Once the web goes down (a very short process when you're draining 200 cap every 5 seconds), that AC rupture has essentially zero chance to hit. Run the tracking numbers yourself and see.
I was talking t1 vs t1 here. For the t2 lvl you would compare it vs the muninn and vaga, where is is equally bad as arbi vs rupture.
Quote: Try again... assuming one 90% web, even BS electron blasters will have about a 20% chance to hit in a 2.5km orbit. When/if the web goes down, you might as well round it to zero.
The reduced dps combined with the BSs own drone damage is quite enough to kill you. Especially considering the higher cap of kali and that there is something called "cap injector.
Quote: True of SDs, but completely false about TDs. Against ACs and blasters, the only relevant part of the TD is the tracking loss (optimal is tiny anyway, so most of the overall range is falloff and unaffected). And to maximize transversal, you want to be up close.
Thats assuming you can build up transversal. The pilgrim is not exactly a very fast cruiser.
Quote: And I'm telling you to actually run the numbers on it. Use the conveniently provided tracking guide, a Pilgrim's TDs will reduce incoming damage, especially once their cap dies and the web shuts down.
Yes. Once. Until then (or afterwards, too, if they have a cap injector) they can cause heavy damage on a pilgrim. It can tank good for a recon, yes. But recons are in general not the best tankers - just because the one-eyed is king of the blind does not mean he will win a sniping contest vs 2-eyed people. For example, a week ago or so an astarte killed 2 of our pilgrims which ganged up on him. At least one of the pilgrim pilots was a rather experienced one.
Quote: But in the end, it's kind of a silly point. Who cares if in some situations you can't solo-kill a BS. You have a covert ops cloak, if you can't evade that blasterthron's guns, don't decloak. That's the fundamental rule of recon ships, just go solo the targets with vulnerable setups.
Actually this exactly IS the point. Namely that a pilgrim has now with kali a rather reduced amount of viaable targets compared to pre-kali and no general solo-pown-mobile anymore. Not really different than the arazu basically. Just as I wrote in my first post here...
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Justice Bringer
Minmatar United Univers
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Posted - 2006.12.22 20:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: PathetiQ lachesis can be great at pvp :P
arazu is a Recon ship not a force recon! ...................................................
Wow, spoken like a true noob!!!!!
Name: Arazu Hull: Celestis Role: Force Recon Ship
Name: Lachesis Hull: Celestis Role: Combat Recon Ship
The above are taken from the Arazu and Lachesis descriptions and not just made up by me.
At least that's what it says on my ships in my hangar.
To the OP, Gallente Recons are great ships and are for specific roles as others have already stated.
The Arazu like other force recons is not smething you want to put on the front line unless you have deep pockets and can afford to replace a tech II cloak on regualr basis. However, if you have good skills and good combat experience then it will no doubt be devastating to the unweary .
The Lachesis on the other hand is a powerful combat vessel and with 7 med slots can seriously hold down a few targets whilst the cavalry is inbound.
For pve I always use my Lachesis as this has the greater resists and also the better damage output:
High: 3 x Heavy Launcher II, 2 x 200 II/Dual 150 II Med: AB II, Sensor Booster II, 4/5 x Remote Sensor Dampner II, 1/0 x Cap Battery/Booster II Low: Med repper II, Energised Nano II, 1/0 x CPR, 0/1 BCS II Drones: Mix it up
Justice
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Arron S
Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2006.12.22 21:30:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Arron S on 22/12/2006 21:31:16 Arazu is a decent Solo ship. But works better in gangs of all sizes.
The falcon is probably the worse solo PVP ship. Gah! |
Locus Bey
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Posted - 2006.12.22 21:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kulmid I solo in my Arazu all the time, I consider it one of the best solo ships around, I'd show you my killboard where I solo'd a Domi and a Geddon at the same time, but I don't think that is necessary
where they in their ships at the time? they must have been complete nublets
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